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WASHINGTON (AP) — The college class of 2012 is in for a rude welcome to the world of work.

A weak labor market already has left half of young college graduates either jobless or underemployed in positions that don't fully use their skills and knowledge.

Young adults with bachelor's degrees are increasingly scraping by in lower-wage jobs — waiter or waitress, bartender, retail clerk or receptionist, for example — and that's confounding their hopes a degree would pay off despite higher tuition and mounting student loans.

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With more than one-third of the nation’s minority youth unemployed,

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WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration will stop deporting and begin granting work permits to younger illegal immigrants who came to the U.S. as children and have since led law-abiding lives. The election-year initiative addresses a top priority of an influential Latino electorate that has been vocal in its opposition to administration deportation policies.

The policy change, announced Friday by Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, will affect as many as 800,000 immigrants who have lived in fear of deportation. It bypasses Congress and partially achieves the goals of the so-called DREAM Act, a long-sought but never enacted plan to establish a path toward citizenship for young people who came to the United States illegally but who attend college or join the military.

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“In answer to your question, sir – and the next time I’d prefer you’d let me finish my statement before you ask that question – is this is the right thing to do for the American people," Obama told Munro.

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SlashOZ said:
1. They are already here competing for jobs. This does not increase the number of young illegals here trying to find work. Its basically the status quo except we won't waste money deporting people who have jobs.

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2. You already said that college grads are pushing out non-college grads for low skilled jobs.

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3. You can't honestly believe that locating and deporting 800,000 illegals is possible, practical, or worth the time, money, and effort.

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zappaisgod said:
http://news.yahoo.com/1-2-graduates-jobless-underemployed-140300522.html

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WASHINGTON (AP) — The college class of 2012 is in for a rude welcome to the world of work.

A weak labor market already has left half of young college graduates either jobless or underemployed in positions that don't fully use their skills and knowledge.

Young adults with bachelor's degrees are increasingly scraping by in lower-wage jobs — waiter or waitress, bartender, retail clerk or receptionist, for example — and that's confounding their hopes a degree would pay off despite higher tuition and mounting student loans.

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This is a pretty shitty situation for all you younguns out there.  Un- and under-employment has been pretty terrible for all the fresh-faced strivers yearning to cash in on the huge sums they wasted spent for a dubious college degree.  It is especially troubling for minority American youth.

http://www.nul.org/content/addressing-staggaring-unemployment-among-young-people

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With more than one-third of the nation’s minority youth unemployed,

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New college grads are taking jobs that have no higher educational requirements and pushing out non college grads from the workforce entirely.  So what is Barry's answer to this incredibly debilitating problem plaguing young American people?  Amnesty for illegals by fiat.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h2rMiN8T4NLCHPB0pl-VRWCATxyg?docId=3260ee1dbc2f43638498e4b4e9aae1e3

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WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration will stop deporting and begin granting work permits to younger illegal immigrants who came to the U.S. as children and have since led law-abiding lives. The election-year initiative addresses a top priority of an influential Latino electorate that has been vocal in its opposition to administration deportation policies.

The policy change, announced Friday by Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, will affect as many as 800,000 immigrants who have lived in fear of deportation. It bypasses Congress and partially achieves the goals of the so-called DREAM Act, a long-sought but never enacted plan to establish a path toward citizenship for young people who came to the United States illegally but who attend college or join the military.

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Yep kiddies, that's right.  Nearly a million border jumping cheats who have already sucked huge funds from our treasury for their education and health care and whatnot are going to be competing with you for the scant number of jobs still available. 

He just fucked you all in the shitter.  No lube.  And let us not forget the other little gem going on in Florida where electoral fraud fan Holder (see dropped New Black Panther case) is suing Florida for trying to assure that only Americans get to vote in elections in America.

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johnm214 said:
What's wrong with this zappa?  The very states those young illegals came to would jail those kids if they didn't follow the commands of their parents, and yet they're supposed to be held to task for not somehow compelling their parents to follow the law?

The way this country treats children is such that it is unjust to hold them to account for almost anything.  maybe if the kids had a choice about being dragged around by their crackhead parents I might sympathize with your viewpoint, but so long as a kid faces criminal charges for not following the instructions of their parents, there's not much justification I see in treating them as the responsible party.


For those not morally responsible, some work permit would be reasonable.  If you want to turn the screws, do it on the parents.

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zappaisgod said:

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johnm214 said:
What's wrong with this zappa?  The very states those young illegals came to would jail those kids if they didn't follow the commands of their parents, and yet they're supposed to be held to task for not somehow compelling their parents to follow the law?

The way this country treats children is such that it is unjust to hold them to account for almost anything.  maybe if the kids had a choice about being dragged around by their crackhead parents I might sympathize with your viewpoint, but so long as a kid faces criminal charges for not following the instructions of their parents, there's not much justification I see in treating them as the responsible party.


For those not morally responsible, some work permit would be reasonable.  If you want to turn the screws, do it on the parents.

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What the fuck are you talking about?  Illegals need to be deported.  Period.  Just get the fuck out and I don't care about anything else.  No jail, just a bus.

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zappaisgod said:

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johnm214 said:
What's wrong with this zappa?  The very states those young illegals came to would jail those kids if they didn't follow the commands of their parents, and yet they're supposed to be held to task for not somehow compelling their parents to follow the law?

The way this country treats children is such that it is unjust to hold them to account for almost anything.  maybe if the kids had a choice about being dragged around by their crackhead parents I might sympathize with your viewpoint, but so long as a kid faces criminal charges for not following the instructions of their parents, there's not much justification I see in treating them as the responsible party.


For those not morally responsible, some work permit would be reasonable.  If you want to turn the screws, do it on the parents.

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What the fuck are you talking about?  Illegals need to be deported.  Period.  Just get the fuck out and I don't care about anything else.  No jail, just a bus.

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johnm214 said:

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zappaisgod said:

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johnm214 said:
What's wrong with this zappa?  The very states those young illegals came to would jail those kids if they didn't follow the commands of their parents, and yet they're supposed to be held to task for not somehow compelling their parents to follow the law?

The way this country treats children is such that it is unjust to hold them to account for almost anything.  maybe if the kids had a choice about being dragged around by their crackhead parents I might sympathize with your viewpoint, but so long as a kid faces criminal charges for not following the instructions of their parents, there's not much justification I see in treating them as the responsible party.


For those not morally responsible, some work permit would be reasonable.  If you want to turn the screws, do it on the parents.

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What the fuck are you talking about?  Illegals need to be deported.  Period.  Just get the fuck out and I don't care about anything else.  No jail, just a bus.

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Great- what a worthless rebuttal.

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DeadHearts said:
Right but throwing them out seems to be extremely hard given the man power and keeping them
out even harder. We have civilians who live on or close to the boarder who have taken things into their
own hands as they are tired of being robbed and threatened. Get the troops down there is all Im trying to
say. It might not be a definite solution but in my opinion they would be serving or country better on
the boarder than say an Afghanistan.

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zappaisgod said:

What was I supposed to rebut?  Your post was incoherent.  Nobody is talking about jailing anybody

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nobody is talking about their parents,

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they aren't children

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Illegal border jumpers need one response and one response only.

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Deadhearts:  It is much cheaper to throw them out than to keep them.

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DeadHearts said:
Right but throwing them out seems to be extremely hard given the man power and keeping them
out even harder.

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It might not be a definite solution but in my opinion they would be serving or country better on
the boarder than say an Afghanistan.

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So you have a child in this country regardless of their will, who may know only English, have only friends here, and you want to export him to some country he has no connection with?  No, that isn't nice and isn't necessary.  There's plenty of reasons to give such children who are the victim of their parents a chance to gain legality and step out from under the bad choices of their parents.

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johnm214 said:

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zappaisgod said:

What was I supposed to rebut?  Your post was incoherent.  Nobody is talking about jailing anybody

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I didn't claim otherwise.  What I did say was that if the children of illegal immigrants decided they didn't want to be illegal immigrants, they would be liable to be charged with criminal offenses (or the juvenile equivalents in states that don't technically call juvenile offenses crimes) and would be subject to jail.  If you don't follow the instructions of your parent you are liable to be jailed as a juvenile.  In the states I'm familiar with, juvenile's can't own property, can't consent to medical care, and can't do anything without a parent's permission (in some cases they can consent to an abortion under some circumstances, but that's about it).

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nobody is talking about their parents,

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I am, and its a mistake not to.  What were they supposed to do, zappa? 

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Illegal border jumpers need one response and one response only.

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Then are you only advocating this response for people who crossed the border illegally?  What of those who entered legally?  Your argument doesn't support the full scope of action you seem to support: such as those who entered on a visa or with legal permission.

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So you have a child in this country regardless of their will, who may know only English, have only friends here, and you want to export him to some country he has no connection with?  No, that isn't nice and isn't neccessary.  There's plenty of reasons to give such children who are the victim of their parents a chance to gain legality and step out from under the bad choices of their parents.

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Seuss said:
> 1. civility. illegal immigrants are people. they are not vermin.

So are child rapists.  What is your point?

ad hominem arguments don't really make a point. continuing to use them only makes you look bad.

> 2. it seems like everyone in this thread is assuming that illegal immigrants are bad without giving an argument.

They may be wonderful people, but they are still breaking the law by being in the country illegally.  If you don't like it, then change the law, but don't simply ignore the law the way Emperor Obama has decided.

ignoring the law? no. enforcing the law as he sees fit? yes. the executive enforces the laws. if you think he's crossed the line you might look into trying to bring some sort of lawsuit in federal court to get an injunction against Obama's actions with regard to the "amnesty" he is proposing. my gut tells me even the conservative supreme court would say Obama is well within his constitutional right as president to do what he is doing.

> 3. it also seems like there is a false assumption that hunting down every single illegal alien in the country is monetarily and logistically feasible.

So what?  There is a difference between enforcing laws and ignoring laws.  Even worse, the federal government is preventing the States from enforcing laws.

Once again, if you think you know the law better than the executive branch of the federal gov't feel free to bring a lawsuit and see just how far you get. My gut tells me you wouldn't get far.

> 4. finally, i'm confused as to why hiring cheap foreign labor is bad for the economy

Why do you assume that illegal alien children that have been educated in the US are cheap labor?

Here is an example. Here are two reasons I can think of why you would hire one person over another person, regardless of ethnicity or immigration status, etc. The first instance would be that skill level/experience is the same but one person will work for less. The second instance is when you have to candidates and one has more experience than the other. You would of course hire the person willing to work for less in the first instance and you would of course hire the more skilled candidate in the second instance. If illegals allowed to stay under Obama's actions are 1) willing to work for less or are 2) more skilled than their american counterparts then why shouldn't they have jobs? It seems like preferring americans for the sake of being born here is not very free market.

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johnm214 said:
wtf?  This is an argument for open borders, so why are you only arguing against zappa's proposal?  Your argument suggests we dismantal border control and ICE itself.  What's so hard about putting them on a bus and dumping them at the border crossing?

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No absolutely not wtf and Im not arguing against Zappa I said I agreed with him. Nothing I said
relates to dismantling the boarder control or anything related to border security and quite the
opposite. 

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johnm214 said:
Another bare declaration.  You want a repeat of what happened after the soviet's pulled out of a war torn tribal society full of religious crazies and people who lack much ability to defend themselves?

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We have been there for 10 years still fighting an insurgency. Something had to be done but its been far
too long and we simply failed in my opinion. Its caused thousands of civilian deaths from both
sides and thousands more indirectly as a consequence of displacement, starvation, disease,
exposure, lack of medical treatment, crime and lawlessness resulting from the war. Maybe they are not
so better off with us there And the people of the United States are no safer still.

Real justifiable huh?

And let us not forget about Iraq

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DeadHearts said:
I think you totally misunderstood my statements Johnny

I do not want open boarders or dismantle anything related to border security.

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DeadHearts said:

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johnm214 said:
Another bare declaration.  You want a repeat of what happened after the soviet's pulled out of a war torn tribal society full of religious crazies and people who lack much ability to defend themselves?

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We have been there for 10 years still fighting an insurgency. Something had to be done but its been far
too long and we simply failed in my opinion. Its caused thousands of civilian deaths from both
sides and thousands more indirectly as a consequence of displacement, starvation, disease,
exposure, lack of medical treatment, crime and lawlessness resulting from the war. Maybe they are not
so better off with us there And the people of the United States are no safer still.

Real justifiable huh?

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Seuss said:

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So you have a child in this country regardless of their will, who may know only English, have only friends here, and you want to export him to some country he has no connection with?  No, that isn't nice and isn't neccessary.  There's plenty of reasons to give such children who are the victim of their parents a chance to gain legality and step out from under the bad choices of their parents.

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Sooo... if my parents stole millions of dollars, and I am used to living a life of leisure, when my parents get caught I should get to keep their ill gotten gains, as I was an innocent child, and continue to reap the rewards of the life they set up for me?

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johnm214 said:

I think my understanding has nothing to do with the merits of your argument

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Obviously it does

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johnm214 said:
You contradict yourself by saying we can't keep the people out of the country and can't find them, therefore its silly to deport

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Ill stop ya right there. No reason reading anything else you posted as I NEVER said anything in
even close to "Its silly to deport".

Go back and actually read what I posted

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What's so hard about putting them on a bus and dumping them at the border crossing?

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What the fuck are you talking about?  Illegals need to be deported.  Period.  Just get the fuck out and I don't care about anything else.  No jail, just a bus.

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No, and it isn't comprable.

You don't have a right to money that isn't yours.  You do have a right to not be abused, forcably moved, barred from owning property, seeking medical care, and so forth.  The children are deprived of that right by law and hence it is unfair to force them to leave the only country they know because of a choice their parent made which they are unable to do shit about.

When juvenile's are able to leave their deadbeat parents then maybe you'll have a point, but where that's not the case and children are essentially slaves, it is a ridiculous comparison.  Forcing a children to be dragged around by a deadbeat parent on threat of jail, barring them from setting up their own life, and then deporting them for being in the country which they were not alowed to leave by law, is ridiculous and unfair.

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What really worries me and I think I may have asked this before, if we round up all these people and send them away how am I going to get strawberries to eat outa my wife's vagina?

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to 10 grand per year a little below the poverty level ,there giving way more to us than there taking away.

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Seuss said:

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No, and it isn't comprable.

You don't have a right to money that isn't yours.  You do have a right to not be abused, forcably moved, barred from owning property, seeking medical care, and so forth.  The children are deprived of that right by law and hence it is unfair to force them to leave the only country they know because of a choice their parent made which they are unable to do shit about.

When juvenile's are able to leave their deadbeat parents then maybe you'll have a point, but where that's not the case and children are essentially slaves, it is a ridiculous comparison.  Forcing a children to be dragged around by a deadbeat parent on threat of jail, barring them from setting up their own life, and then deporting them for being in the country which they were not alowed to leave by law, is ridiculous and unfair.

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I'm not advocating tossing illegal aliens in jail.

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Just ask all the illegal mexicans that are already putting strawberries in her vagina to leave a few in there for you when they're done.

They also make far more than seven to ten grand a year, you lying. Also how do you think the fruit got picked prior to the illegals? How do you think houses and roads got built? Who do you think worked on cars or hung drywall? Many Mexicans came here circa WW2 to make money while american men were overseas fighting. After their return, the mexicans were supposed to leave, but of course they broke the law and have been here ever since.

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Our government continues to claim that the war on terror is bankrupting us. But what about these numbers? You do the math…
$11 billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Illegal households only pay about one-third the amount of federal taxes that non-illegal households pay.
Illegal households create a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion a year. If given amnesty, this number could grow to more than $29 billion.

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SlashOZ said:


4. finally, i'm confused as to why hiring cheap foreign labor is bad for the economy?  doesn't lower payroll -> lower prices in goods? I was under the impression you against the federal minimum wage Zappa but if you aren't feel free to correct me. for example, instead hiring one american to work at $10 an hour why not hire two illegals for $5 an hour. you get more work done for the same price and two people are working rather than drawing unemployment. its more efficient and that leads to cheaper prices for consumers. most illegals pay taxes so its not like the social services they are getting come from nowhere either.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-16/news/31199931_1_residency-and-taxpaying-illegal-immigrants-taxation-and-economic-policy

continue on raging against and for the machine shroomerites!

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If we ship we them all away they can't eat strawberries outa her either, doesn't solve my problem

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zappaisgod said:

Quote:

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johnm214 said:
What's wrong with this zappa?  The very states those young illegals came to would jail those kids if they didn't follow the commands of their parents, and yet they're supposed to be held to task for not somehow compelling their parents to follow the law?

The way this country treats children is such that it is unjust to hold them to account for almost anything.  maybe if the kids had a choice about being dragged around by their crackhead parents I might sympathize with your viewpoint, but so long as a kid faces criminal charges for not following the instructions of their parents, there's not much justification I see in treating them as the responsible party.


For those not morally responsible, some work permit would be reasonable.  If you want to turn the screws, do it on the parents.

---

What the fuck are you talking about?  Illegals need to be deported.  Period.  Just get the fuck out and I don't care about anything else.  No jail, just a bus.

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zappaisgod said:

Quote:

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SlashOZ said:


4. finally, i'm confused as to why hiring cheap foreign labor is bad for the economy?  doesn't lower payroll -> lower prices in goods? I was under the impression you against the federal minimum wage Zappa but if you aren't feel free to correct me. for example, instead hiring one american to work at $10 an hour why not hire two illegals for $5 an hour. you get more work done for the same price and two people are working rather than drawing unemployment. its more efficient and that leads to cheaper prices for consumers. most illegals pay taxes so its not like the social services they are getting come from nowhere either.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-16/news/31199931_1_residency-and-taxpaying-illegal-immigrants-taxation-and-economic-policy

continue on raging against and for the machine shroomerites!

---

They don't pay taxes.  Most of the ones in construction are off the books.  Around here they get $100 a day plus lunch and transportation.  Further, even the ones that do get phony soc sec numbers don't pay shit in taxes.  Don't you know that the bottom 50% of earners pay almost nothing in income taxes? 

But that isn't what we are talking about here, is it?  These are people who are illegally in this country, breaking our laws every day, sucking our services and taking jobs away from legitimate American young people.  If the education they stole from American taxpayers is valuable enough to America let them go back where they came from and get in line like so many of their respectful law-abiding fellows.  Not only do these selfish fucks screw American citizens out of jobs they also screw the people who are trying to legitimately enter the country.  Where's your compassion for them?  Why do you only sympathize with law breaking assholes and not the people they hurt?

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Here is an idea; have her pick her own dam strawberries. Here is an idea. Whip your own cream. You really think if we ship all the illegals away that there won't be people to pick crops?

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  I think the millions of contractors and construction workers that lose jobs to low bidding illegals is something to consider.  Regardless of how they got here they are here illegally.  All Obama is doing is giving some of them a temporary reprieve. 

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Humility said:
Mexican individuals are reclaiming land that they've owned (literally) for centuries.

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Seuss said:
but until the law is changed, it is what it is.  Drug laws are a humanitarian nightmare, but the population accepts tossing non-violent gardeners into jail for life.  I have trouble finding compassion for an illegal alien, regardless of circumstances, that is taking a job away from an American when the world is filled with humanitarian horrors.

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DeadHearts said:

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johnm214 said:

I think my understanding has nothing to do with the merits of your argument

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Obviously it does

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hockeyplyr1057 said:

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zappaisgod said:

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johnm214 said:
What's wrong with this zappa?  The very states those young illegals came to would jail those kids if they didn't follow the commands of their parents, and yet they're supposed to be held to task for not somehow compelling their parents to follow the law?

The way this country treats children is such that it is unjust to hold them to account for almost anything.  maybe if the kids had a choice about being dragged around by their crackhead parents I might sympathize with your viewpoint, but so long as a kid faces criminal charges for not following the instructions of their parents, there's not much justification I see in treating them as the responsible party.


For those not morally responsible, some work permit would be reasonable.  If you want to turn the screws, do it on the parents.

---

What the fuck are you talking about?  Illegals need to be deported.  Period.  Just get the fuck out and I don't care about anything else.  No jail, just a bus.

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But who will cut my grass and fix my roof damage?!

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zappaisgod said:


Well those were things I did when I was young so maybe a fucking American?

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SlashOZ said:

Quote:

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zappaisgod said:

Quote:

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SlashOZ said:


4. finally, i'm confused as to why hiring cheap foreign labor is bad for the economy?  doesn't lower payroll -> lower prices in goods? I was under the impression you against the federal minimum wage Zappa but if you aren't feel free to correct me. for example, instead hiring one american to work at $10 an hour why not hire two illegals for $5 an hour. you get more work done for the same price and two people are working rather than drawing unemployment. its more efficient and that leads to cheaper prices for consumers. most illegals pay taxes so its not like the social services they are getting come from nowhere either.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-16/news/31199931_1_residency-and-taxpaying-illegal-immigrants-taxation-and-economic-policy

continue on raging against and for the machine shroomerites!

---

They don't pay taxes.  Most of the ones in construction are off the books.  Around here they get $100 a day plus lunch and transportation.  Further, even the ones that do get phony soc sec numbers don't pay shit in taxes.  Don't you know that the bottom 50% of earners pay almost nothing in income taxes? 

But that isn't what we are talking about here, is it?  These are people who are illegally in this country, breaking our laws every day, sucking our services and taking jobs away from legitimate American young people.  If the education they stole from American taxpayers is valuable enough to America let them go back where they came from and get in line like so many of their respectful law-abiding fellows.  Not only do these selfish fucks screw American citizens out of jobs they also screw the people who are trying to legitimately enter the country.  Where's your compassion for them?  Why do you only sympathize with law breaking assholes and not the people they hurt?

---

1. People pay taxes when they buy things like groceries, gas, other products, property, etc. 50% of the lowest income earners don't pay taxes? Well then the issue for most illegals really isn't an issue now is it since even if they were legal they wouldn't be paying income taxes.

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johnm214 said:

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zappaisgod said:


Well those were things I did when I was young so maybe a fucking American?

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Pretty difficult.  You'd have to pay for OSHA, and have ridiculous restrictions on hiring kids to do the job.

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What.

The.

Fuck.

Provide some basis for that claim, I dare you.

Sounds like some racist/ethnic bullshit.  Is this your idea of how to solve the Israel Palestine conflict?  Find out who 'owned' the land longer?

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johnm214 said:



Another bare conclusion.  Are you under some misconception about what constitutes an argument here?

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zappaisgod said:

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SlashOZ said:

Quote:

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zappaisgod said:

Quote:

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SlashOZ said:


4. finally, i'm confused as to why hiring cheap foreign labor is bad for the economy?  doesn't lower payroll -> lower prices in goods? I was under the impression you against the federal minimum wage Zappa but if you aren't feel free to correct me. for example, instead hiring one american to work at $10 an hour why not hire two illegals for $5 an hour. you get more work done for the same price and two people are working rather than drawing unemployment. its more efficient and that leads to cheaper prices for consumers. most illegals pay taxes so its not like the social services they are getting come from nowhere either.

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-16/news/31199931_1_residency-and-taxpaying-illegal-immigrants-taxation-and-economic-policy

continue on raging against and for the machine shroomerites!

---

1. People pay taxes when they buy things like groceries, gas, other products, property, etc. 50% of the lowest income earners don't pay taxes? Well then the issue for most illegals really isn't an issue now is it since even if they were legal they wouldn't be paying income taxes.

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Do you really think that sales and property taxes that low income people pay comes anywhere near the cost of the services received?  I got a bulletin for you.  It isn't even close.

This argument you are making applies equally to legal immigrants and U.S. citizens as it does illegal immigrants. Also, I've already given a link to an article that says that illegals are paying taxes. Its also a given that they are buying food and gas which are taxed. If an illegal is renting a house or apartment those buildings have property tax figured into the rent cost. etc. etc. They are paying taxes. Can you make an argument that is based on reality rather than your own bias because I'm not seeing much logic or facts coming from your side.

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2. immigration laws are stupid. who the hell is any government to tell me where i can travel in the world? wtf? if i want to live in some place I don't want anyone telling me I can't unless I pass a test. wtf mate? i didn't need to pass a test to move from one state to anther so why should someone need to pass a test to move from mexico or japan into the U.S.?

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  I figured this was your position.  You don't believe in borders.  Every fucking country in the world has immigration laws.  Do you know what the immigration laws are like in Mexico?  They are a lot harsher than ours.

I am not in favor of immigration laws or borders. I do not really care about Mexico's laws because I don't live there. Now, other than a pointless comparison between the U.S. and Mexico's immigration laws how about you make an argument in favor of limiting the freedom of movement of people?

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3. i'm not just siding with the "law breakers" or whatever you want to slander them as. they are people and should be treated as such. it shouldn't matter where someone was born. get a grip.

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There is a law.  They broke it.  That is a fact.  I don't think a fact can be slanderous.  They should be treated as people who break laws.  Prosecuted and punished.  What is constantly ignored is that there are victims of their lawbreaking, not the least of whom are those who choose to go through the proper channels to immigrate.

Calling people vermin is though. The U.S. has quotas for how many people are allowed to move here or enter for work or school legally. People are still allowed to enter legally regardless of how many come here illegally. Its a fact that those that come here illegally and work pay taxes. I've given some sources and all you have is your bias to back up your claims. Breaking pointless laws is what this country was founded on. Immigration laws are perhaps the most pointless laws I can think of. Restriction movement based on where people are born is rather ridiculous and xenophobic imo. I think people should be able to move wherever they want when they want. Its called freedom and I'm in favor of it. Sorry to hear that you aren't.

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zappaisgod said:
1.  The Business Insider interviewed some illegal immigrant vermin who said they paid taxes.  How nice.  I interviewed several dozen illegal immigrants who laughed at me when I asked if they declared their income and payed taxes.  "What you talking about, gringo?" 

They are a net loss.  It is a fact.  Most people in this country are a net loss.  Only the top 15-20% actually pay their way in taxes and the vast majority of the tax burden is borne by the top 5%. 

2.  There is not one country in the world with open borders.  Why do you suppose that is?

3.  Vermin.  An infestation of undesirable parasites.  Yes, there are people who come here legally.  There would be more of them if it wasn't for the people who jump the line and come here illegally. 

It is not a fact that all people who come here illegally pay taxes.  And they don't pay anywhere near enough to make up for their suck.  Further, they depress the wage level in the trades they infest.  Why do you hate hate Americans who just want a fair job market?

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I see you've completely abandoned the idea of making an argument

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  What argument are you trying to make with this?

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http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/justice_freedom_security/free_movement_of_persons_asylum_immigration/index_en.htm

straight from the horses mouth about the free movement and immigration of people within the EU.

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cacharstar said:

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http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/justice_freedom_security/free_movement_of_persons_asylum_immigration/index_en.htm

straight from the horses mouth about the free movement and immigration of people within the EU.

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How does this tie in to immigration in America?

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zappaisgod said:

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hockeyplyr1057 said:

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zappaisgod said:

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johnm214 said:
What's wrong with this zappa?  The very states those young illegals came to would jail those kids if they didn't follow the commands of their parents, and yet they're supposed to be held to task for not somehow compelling their parents to follow the law?

The way this country treats children is such that it is unjust to hold them to account for almost anything.  maybe if the kids had a choice about being dragged around by their crackhead parents I might sympathize with your viewpoint, but so long as a kid faces criminal charges for not following the instructions of their parents, there's not much justification I see in treating them as the responsible party.


For those not morally responsible, some work permit would be reasonable.  If you want to turn the screws, do it on the parents.

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What the fuck are you talking about?  Illegals need to be deported.  Period.  Just get the fuck out and I don't care about anything else.  No jail, just a bus.

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But who will cut my grass and fix my roof damage?!

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Well those were things I did when I was young so maybe a fucking American?

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zappaisgod said:
The EU does not have open immigration outside of the EU.  People can move freely within the EU.  That isn't open borders, is it?  Can an Ecuadorean just go to any country in Europe?  No he cannot.


That Daily News article that GE doesn't pay taxes is a sensationalist lie.  Illegal immigrants paid 11.2B in taxes?  11.2?  That amounts to about $1,000 each.  They would have to pay at least 10 times that much for Americans to break even.  They are fucking parasites.

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Humility said:
A clean vagina is a happy vagina.



"Illegals" are here, whether you like it or not.  The vast majority of "illegal" Mexican immigrants migrate to areas that have been Hispanic since Old World peoples started migrating to the New World.



You're complaining about a trend that isn't going to reverse.  What has in fact reversed are social and cultural ties to land.  Mexican individuals are reclaiming land that they've owned (literally) for centuries.


They are here and not going away, what they are doing is reproducing at rates that are commiserate with lower socioeconomic classes.

I approve highly.

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Knewnews said:

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Humility said:
A clean vagina is a happy vagina.



"Illegals" are here, whether you like it or not.  The vast majority of "illegal" Mexican immigrants migrate to areas that have been Hispanic since Old World peoples started migrating to the New World.



You're complaining about a trend that isn't going to reverse.  What has in fact reversed are social and cultural ties to land.  Mexican individuals are reclaiming land that they've owned (literally) for centuries.


They are here and not going away, what they are doing is reproducing at rates that are commiserate with lower socioeconomic classes.

I approve highly.

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exactly. it isn't possible to stop.

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For the third year in a row, American teenagers hoping to land summer jobs will face the worst teen hiring slump since World War II.

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zappaisgod said:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/06/18/U-S-Teens-Face-Worst-Summertime-Hiring-Since-World-War-II

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For the third year in a row, American teenagers hoping to land summer jobs will face the worst teen hiring slump since World War II.

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zappaisgod said:
His policies will be much better for them than Obama's (who could be worse?).

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