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OfflineSpiderbaby
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Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK)
    #16371021 - 06/12/12 03:46 PM (11 months, 2 days ago)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/9324428/Is-the-Prohibition-of-Pot-coming-to-an-end-in-the-US.html

Quote:


Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US?
The momentum to legalise marijuana in America is growing – as is the number of smokers. Could the US’s drug war soon be over.

With a beatific smile, Alison the saleswoman picks up a small pot of green-tinged butter from her trestle-table display, removes the lid and invites us to inhale deeply. “The bouquet is just fabulous, isn’t it? It’s one of my absolute favourite products,” she gushes, “you spread a little on a cracker, top with cream cheese, and sprinkle some chives. People think it’s just a little ’erb butter, and then you tell them what it is, and they find they’re already getting high.”

The packed hall in a slightly grungy suburb of Seattle where Alison is selling her wares is filled with the hubbub of many similarly intense conversations, all devoted to the magic ingredient in Alison’s uplifting butter: cannabis.

As we stroll along the lines of tables in what is described as “America’s only daily cannabis farmers’ market”, it is clear that what used to be called plain old ''pot’’ is now a product – like say, French cheese or Italian salami – of almost infinite variety.

As well as the neatly labelled jars of multifarious green ''bud’’ on display, the place bristles with artisanal ingenuity. There is a jar of pesto, a bar of “pack a punch” white chocolate marked “keep out of reach of children”.
If that’s not your cup of (hash) tea, how about a cup of “wake and bake” coffee to get you started in the morning? Not to forget the jams or honeys for your toast; fudges, brownies and some heavenly smelling warm cinnamon buns being sold by Dedrick, whose fiancé is a pastry chef.

The scene in Seattle is not what it seems at first glance. The market is only possible because, officially speaking, the stallholders and their customers are not potheads, but ''patients’’ certified under local laws to use medical marijuana. To enter, everyone must show their ''green card’’ authorisations and sign a declaration promising not to resell on the street. Officially, the market is not a market, but a “meeting point” for licensed marijuana growing collectives, and an “access point” for the patients to get their “medicine” in return for a “donation”. A heavily air-conditioned room is available for patients to “medicate” themselves for conditions that range from terminal cancer to a mildly arthritic neck.

That may all change after November 6 – general election day – when voters in Washington state will decide not just on whether to give Barack Obama a second term, but also whether to legalise marijuana for recreational use. If the referendum – known as Initiative 502 – is passed by a simple majority, everyone over the age of 21 in the state would, in theory, be able to go to a government-run shop and buy up to 1oz of marijuana or equivalent in edible products without fear of being arrested or harassed.
The initiative is just one example of the momentum to legalise marijuana. This week, Andrew Cuomo, the governor of New York, suggested that young people caught with small amounts of marijuana should not be arrested, further decriminalising the drug.

Like Washington, Colorado will also vote in November on a similar motion to fully legalise, while a Rasmussen Reports poll last month found that 56 per cent of Americans now support legalising and taxing marijuana like alcohol. Early polls show similar support (55 per cent) for initiative 502 in Washington state. There is now a distinct possibility that, for the first time, a US state will vote to legalise.

Although there have been previous state-level initiatives to legalise pot – most recently in 2010 when California’s Proposition 19 which failed to win a majority – none has had the kind of establishment backing gathered by the Washington campaign, which is supported by former US attorneys, an FBI supervisor and several judges and public health specialists.

Initiative 502 is different because it has been designed to disarm critics, according to Alison Holcomb, the campaign director who is also a longtime criminal defence lawyer in the state. “We wanted to put a proposal in front of voters that addressed their concerns,” she said at the group’s modest offices in Seattle where the $5m autumn publicity campaign is being coordinated, “which on marijuana are fears over drug-driving and protecting kids.”

To allay concerns, the bill bans marijuana shop-window displays or advertising and insists all marijuana will be produced in-state, under government licence, with growers, refiners and retailers all taxed at 25 per cent. There will also be a strict provision outlawing ''drug-driving’’ just like drink-driving.

There remains, however, one major problem: even if 502 passes, marijuana will still be an illegal drug under federal law. A yes vote in Washington state or Arizona will therefore create a showdown between state and federal governments.

John McKay, a former US attorney for Washington state who is backing the initiative, says the showdown is reminiscent of the state-level rebellion that led to the end of Prohibition. “I think the states are going to have to rebel again before the federal government changes its policy,” he said. “States are going to have to say that the policy on marijuana – which creates a black market where only the bad guys profit and criminalises millions of ordinary people – has failed.”

Support for marijuana legalisation comes from different directions. For some, the arguments are economic – Washington state’s government audit office estimates legalisation will generate some $516m a year in much-needed tax revenues. For others, legalising is the only practical response to the failure of the US’s 40-year, $1 trillion “war on drugs” to stop the flow of narcotics. Decriminalising pot, they say, would relieve pressure on overpopulated prisons and free the hands of police who make more than 850,000 marijuana-related arrests every year – that’s one every 37 seconds.
For a fourth group marijuana is genuinely medicinal, like the New York supreme court judge who wrote movingly this month in the New York Times about how, after taking cocktails of pharmaceutical drugs, marijuana was the only drug that gave him an appetite when fighting the nausea brought on by his chemotherapy and allowed him to sleep peacefully.

Ironically, one place support for 502 will not be forthcoming is among the stallholders at that Seattle cannabis farmers’ market, who fear the strict rules would eat into their profits (donations), make their ''medicine’’ too expensive and precipitate a wave of drug-driving convictions. “We don’t want it,” says Dedrick, whose cinnamon buns are flying off the table like the hot cakes they are. “If they license growing, it will drive it away from those who put love into our medicine.”

The opposition among the medical marijuana community, while strong, is not universal. Across town from the market, at the Green Buddha dispensary, the sentiment is different. Muraco, the owner, says she’ll embrace 502 even if it means she’ll go out of business. “It’s what we’ve been fighting for all these years, isn’t it? If it happens, five other states will follow in five years, you watch.” Legalisation, she says, is a natural, inevitable progression. When Washington state legalised medical marijuana in 1998 ''green cards’’ were extremely tightly controlled, and Muraco, who suffered from seizures, was one of the very first to receive one.

But since ''naturopathic’’ doctors were allowed to authorise the use of marijuana, “any dude with a bad foot” can now get a note from his doctor, she admits. As a result, the number of dispensaries, from a handful two years ago, have exploded to more than 200 in Washington state. Certified medical marijuana users are reported to have hit 35,000, with one dispensary owner saying “hundreds” were joining the list every day. Legalisation would, in many ways, be a recognition of existing realities.
Supporters of legalisation say the polls reflect a change in US public opinion. Even those who disapprove of drugs increasingly appear to feel that criminalising marijuana is out of step with an America in which surveys show that 16.7 million citizens used marijuana in the past month, and perhaps as many as 100 million will have smoked at some point in their lives.

Support is not just confined to the liberal Left. Last March, to the anger of anti-drugs groups, Pat Robertson, a deeply conservative Christian televangelist, came out in favour of legalisation, citing the ''social cost’’ of continuing to criminalise marijuana.
Gary Johnson, the two-term Republican governor of New Mexico and 2012 presidential candidate for the Libertarian Party, is also a proponent and will make liberalisation part of his platform during the election, in contrast to both Barack Obama (who has admitted to smoking pot in his youth) and Mitt Romney, who both remain opposed.

“We are at a tipping point and we’re going to legalise marijuana sooner or later,” Johnson said in a telephone interview. “We need to understand that the problems associated with marijuana are caused by prohibition itself. That is what is tearing people and families apart and turning otherwise taxpaying citizens into criminals.”

If 502 passes no one knows how the federal government will react to such a naked affront to its authority. The early signs are that it will fight the rebellious states. In what many take to be a signal of intent, federal agencies have recently mounted raids on ''legal’’ marijuana dispensaries in some of the 14 states that have passed medical marijuana laws.

California, Washington and Arizona have been the focus of raids, which the Department of Justice says are targeted only at people using the medical marijuana laws (which the Department has officially tolerated since 2009) as a cover for large-scale cannabis growing and dealing.

John Mckay, who was once the chief federal prosecutor for drug crimes in Washington state, feels it is almost certain that the federal government will try to assert its authority through the courts. In the short term, this will put legalisation on ice, but as happened with Prohibition, he believes it will start an argument that history suggests will almost certainly – eventually – lead to legalisation.

“There is no doubt that 502 sets up a major showdown,” he said. “I bet the federal government already has its case prepared, but, at last, both sides will get to make the argument in the open. For supporters of legalisation, that can only be a good thing.”




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Offlinejack_straw2208
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Registered: 02/12/07
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #16371082 - 06/12/12 03:59 PM (11 months, 2 days ago)

cut the bull shit barack, let us get high!


--------------------
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they're 20 miles long tangled up with my all insides

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: Spiderbaby]
    #16371152 - 06/12/12 04:13 PM (11 months, 2 days ago)

25% tax? It is a commodity and should be taxed at the same rate as any other commodity.


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: jack_straw2208]
    #16371160 - 06/12/12 04:17 PM (11 months, 2 days ago)

Would you please not quote articles? They are terrible to read this way.


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OfflineTheAwokenOne
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: jack_straw2208]
    #16371187 - 06/12/12 04:23 PM (11 months, 2 days ago)

All very true. It's things like this that show just how truly complex the issue of marijuana is. I also do agree that the only downsides to marijuana are caused by prohibition itself, and that if a state is able to legalize the 'drug,' that could be the beginning to a huge rebellious period in our country's society.:thumbup:


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: TheAwokenOne]
    #16371225 - 06/12/12 04:31 PM (11 months, 2 days ago)

I hope I will be able to say this by the end of the year:

Remember, remember the 6th of November!


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OfflineLegalLife420
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: TheAwokenOne]
    #16371260 - 06/12/12 04:37 PM (11 months, 2 days ago)

Im all for legalization, but am highly against this innitiative. If you smoke today, you could still get a DUI five days from now with how miniscule of an amount they have to detect for it to be considered DUI.


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #16371319 - 06/12/12 04:48 PM (11 months, 2 days ago)

To this I always say: Any change for the better is a change for the better!


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Offlinegonzoapprentice92
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: LegalLife420]
    #16371330 - 06/12/12 04:52 PM (11 months, 2 days ago)

Hell yea!  I agree the blood test amounts are crazy but its a step in the right direction.  We need a foot in the door.


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I share the belief of many of my contemporaries that the spiritual crisis pervading all spheres of Western industrial society can be remedied only by a change in our world view. We shall have to shift from the materialistic, dualistic belief that people and their environment are separate, toward a new conciousness of an all-encompassing reality, which embraces the experiencing ego, a reality in which people feel their oneness with animate nature and all of creation.- Albert Hoffman


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OfflineDon Juan
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: gonzoapprentice92]
    #16372659 - 06/12/12 09:19 PM (11 months, 2 days ago)

no state wants to upset the feds though, every state recieves federal money each year that they use for infastructure etc.

I dont think any state wants to piss in their own cornflakes


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OfflineNossninja
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: Don Juan]
    #16374137 - 06/13/12 01:48 AM (11 months, 1 day ago)

It is a commodity but also can be considered a excise or "sin tax". They will tax it just like alcohol and tobacco  which is at a higher rate than most things. Im all for it even tho it will not be legal for the military ever(altho its ok 40 more months to go)


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OfflineGongGuy12
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: Nossninja]
    #16374879 - 06/13/12 06:59 AM (11 months, 1 day ago)

I hope one day our governments will not make laws in relation to moral issues, what one man finds taboo another does not.

We really need to respect a persons right to privacy, a persons right to their own body and emotions, and the right to alter the same as they see fit.

I think that we have given away far too many rights and need to fight for our rights once more.

Our human rights this is our planet but MY body!

TL:DR DAMMIT I HOPE SO!


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lye6rkZO21o



He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither!


Edited by GongGuy12 (06/13/12 08:45 AM)


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OfflineDocShroom
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: GongGuy12]
    #16375311 - 06/13/12 10:43 AM (11 months, 1 day ago)

I am interested to see how this turns out. Although those of us working in medicine will never be able to openly use marijuana I would like to see it legalized to decrease the amount of money spent on investigating and prosecuting marijuana possession/distribution each year. And I firmly believe that if one state legalizes and fights the feds then other states will follow, it's exactly what happened with medicinal laws.


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Anything posted by me is either hypothetical or completely fictional. Tek information is for educational purposes and should only be used where it is legal.

All trades available are legal and for microscopy or other legal uses only.

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InvisibleLongStrangeTripS
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: TheAwokenOne]
    #16375958 - 06/13/12 02:27 PM (11 months, 1 day ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
25% tax? It is a commodity and should be taxed at the same rate as any other commodity.




I bet you this rate would change after legalized cannabis is seen as more of a "normal" thing. The crafter's of this bill know damned well that one of their greatest arguments for them is that taxation will bring in serious revenues. I think that is why the tax percentage is so high, but that could be changed at any point really easily.

Quote:

TheAwokenOne said:
All very true. It's things like this that show just how truly complex the issue of marijuana is. I also do agree that the only downsides to marijuana are caused by prohibition itself, and that if a state is able to legalize the 'drug,' that could be the beginning to a huge rebellious period in our country's society.:thumbup:




I agree with you but I do not know if I would call it "rebellious". Its not, the rebellious part of prohibition is the fact that we crafted a schedule system and placed a substance, with no substantial cause, at schedule one status. Nixon appointed a special commission to look at cannabis in 1970, and in 1971 they came back and recommended that cannabis not be criminalized, that cannabis was not a gateway drug, and that their was potential for medical applications. Nixon completely ignored this and scheduled it, likely to find an easier means of dealing with those damned hippies protesting the war. Now THAT is fucking "rebellious"!! We will finally be back ON TRACK with legalized cannabis.   

I think one way everyone can help "normalize" cannabis is to stop calling it that fucking dirty slang we came up with seventy some years ago; "marijuana". STOP! It has a fucking scientific classification! Us pot smokers have to TRY and change its image, ya know? Be a hard working stoner, not a know nothing "pot head"; speak about the subject with empirical evidence; these sorts of little things really help to convince your peers that cannabis is not such a bad thing. People always say to me that legalization is such an impossibility; I mean, its been like this FOREVER, right? Nope, dead wrong. The past 41 years we have had the schedule system; everyone knows someone older than this. The government has done a great job at brainwashing people into thinking all sorts of uncredited factoids about cannabis, and also, at seeing the idea of anything "changing" as crazy. That is bullshit, and the same bullshit was said before alcohol prohibition was ended as well. But you got to work "in the system", as smart men have said before me :rolleyes:.

Cannabis =
Kanna (Ancient Greek, coming from the Ancient Hebrew "bossum") -> Canna (Latin) meaning sweet smelling bud 

Bis -> the Latin Duel form

So Cannabis = sweet smelling bud of two sexes 

:peace::gd_icon:


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Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
    #16375992 - 06/13/12 02:37 PM (11 months, 1 day ago)

i would agree that public attitudes towards marijuana are moving in the right direction...however..there is still the small problem of a $2.6 trillion drug-war industry lobby.. which is several times the combined net worth of the bottom 95% of US income earners...had americans come to their senses before citizens united..then it might have been possible.. now it is prolly too late.. especially given the likelyhood of a repugnican sweep in november...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (06/13/12 03:54 PM)


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InvisibleLongStrangeTripS
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: Annapurna1]
    #16376031 - 06/13/12 02:47 PM (11 months, 1 day ago)

A Republican sweep is your guess Anna, that is by no means a fact. Wait until it happens, then you will know, don't act like you know the outcome now.

Also; don't you think their were monied forces behind alcohol prohibition? Yea there were, and it still happened. Acting like nothing like this has ever changed is just as stupid as arguing for no change at all :shrug:.

41 years of prohibition does not equal an immovable unchangeable object, I don't care what the monied interests are behind it. Politics and opinions have fluency; they ebb and change over time. Really quickly sometimes too. Shit changes, the government responds to public opinion, and before you know it we are back to "how could things ever be different?" in the public's opinion.

I just wonder what the clever name of the first large cannabis corporation will be... there are just so many puns and fun phrases to choose from :grin:


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Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
    #16376317 - 06/13/12 04:02 PM (11 months, 1 day ago)

its easy to make the comparison with alcohol prohibition.. but the politics back then were very different too...for example ..two constitutional amendments were needed to impose and to repeal prohibition.. whereas that was clearly not the case with marijuana...

and even if the repugs dont sweep in november.. the democraps are no freinds of potheads either...


Edited by Annapurna1 (06/13/12 04:05 PM)


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Offlineniteman
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: Annapurna1]
    #16376541 - 06/13/12 05:01 PM (11 months, 1 day ago)

I live in Texas. If bud is legalized we will most likely be one of the last states to follow through.


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InvisibleLongStrangeTripS
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: niteman]
    #16380271 - 06/14/12 12:18 PM (11 months, 11 hours ago)

That is true Anna, and its a really crazy "fluid" system that we have, it can look one way one day and another the next.

I am going to keep hoping though:rolleyes:

Cannabis is an American pastime; its as American as apple pie, football, w/e the fuck you are talking about. Its about fucking time it came out of the closet :grin:


--------------------
Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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OfflineInu
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Re: Is the Prohibition of 'Pot' coming to an end in the US? (UK) [Re: Nossninja]
    #16383934 - 06/15/12 04:31 AM (10 months, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Nossninja said:
It is a commodity but also can be considered a excise or "sin tax". They will tax it just like alcohol and tobacco  which is at a higher rate than most things. Im all for it even tho it will not be legal for the military ever(altho its ok 40 more months to go)



I wouldn't be that pessimistic, the military is if anything, very fiscally conservative, and cannabis has proven itself effective against PTSD, I'll bet if it gets federally legalized, that it would soon follow that you could be prescribed it by your doctor, of course they'd put you on a DNIF waiver for as long as you're using it, but they do that anyway for almost any prescription (even the anesthetic from the dentist)


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