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 ImTheDJEep
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Registered: 06/05/12
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 Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage 
#16338940 - 06/05/12 11:29 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Next weekend my wife and kids are going out of town for a birthday party. I like to experiment with psychedelics when my family is away for a while since I have the time and setting to fully enjoy it. I ordered some 4-Aco-DMT Fumarate in preparation for the weekend and I want to have a very strong / mystical experience. I rarely take psychedelics, but when I do I like to jump into the deep end. My last good trip was 3 hits of strong acid and .2 g clean molly, which was approaching my comfort limit. I have had one experience with what I assume was the 4-Aco material (~15 mg of a white powder given to me as “Mushroom Extract” in a GelCap) and loved it, but wanted the experience to be stronger. I guess it could have been actual mushroom extract capped up, but I doubt to just bump into that at a club one night. I am trying to do some research to find the perfect dose of 4-Aco-DMT for a very heavy (level 4) experience. In my research I have come across a number of answers ranging from 20 mg to 60 mg. In one account, the psychonaut claimed to consume 120 mg! With such a spectrum of suggested doses, I did some math based on the suggested mechanism of the pharmacological action of the chemical. Assuming that 4-Aco-DMT freebase is deacetylated into psilocin, ~1.77 mg of 4-Aco-DMT Fumarate is equivalent to 1 mg of psilocin. I couldn’t find any literature that laid out psilocin dosage, only psilocybin. Assuming that psilocybin dephosphorylates into psilocin, ~1.39 mg of psilocybin is equivalent to 1 mg psilocin. So when weighing 4-Aco-DMT Fumarate, one should multiply the target psilocybin dose by 1.275. A heavy dose of psilocybin is listed as 20-30 mg per 70 kg , I really want to shoot for the equivalent of 25 mg of psilocybin (being ~ 70 kg.) According to my math I should dose ~32 mg. Any suggestions or opinions?
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 nooneman
Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,700
Loc: Utah
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 Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: ImTheDJEep]
#16339027 - 06/05/12 11:51 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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That is a large dose of 4-aco-dmt. 32mg is roughly equivalent to 5 dry grams depending on the quality of the mushrooms involved. It's a heavy trip at that dose. You really should try it at 25mg or less before trying it at 32mg.
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clockwork228
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Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 196
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: ImTheDJEep]
#16339068 - 06/06/12 12:05 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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The problem with 4-AcO is that it's highly variable from person to person based on what I've read on the Big & Dandy forum on Bluelight as well as what I've heard from friends. Some people trip balls from 20. For me, 25mg was relatively weak and extremely manageable. I think it's related to your shroom tolerance as well. I personally find 3.5g to be moderate and anything less to be a waste of time while others trip face. A friend of mine did 40mg once and said it was manageable then we both took 40mg again later on and both died. Same batch and everything. The only difference was the setting. I actually wrote up the report for that trip today. It's long but here it is if you want to give it a read.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16336185
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Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Ah Hum Vajra Guru Padma Siddhi Hum
Edited by clockwork228 (06/06/12 12:06 AM)
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ImTheDJEep
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: clockwork228]
#16339104 - 06/06/12 12:16 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Nice TR!!! I am really looking to get to that level(ish). I want to straddle the lines of reality & 'not'. It is interesting that 40mg at one time was well tolerated, and another it was very intense. Different levels of endogenous MAOI's maybe(?) Biochemistry is fun!
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clockwork228
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Registered: 01/25/11
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: ImTheDJEep]
#16339188 - 06/06/12 12:43 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thank you sir. It is indeed. While it could have been biochemistry, I personally believe it had more to do with set and setting. His first time with 40mg he was with friends and other people tripping and partying. This time I made sure to let him know that we were setting up a situation for the purpose of going deep, ie the places to lie down, trip music (which ended up off) and low if any lighting. How was your experience with ~15mg? I'm wary to suggest any dose at all because you may very well have the same effects I had with say 30mg or less. Many consider 30 to be high while for others it is moderate or weak. Some people experience ego death on 25 while I've read one guy saying 35 is the sweat spot for him. It's a highly variable chemical and you might just have to guess and see what happens.
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Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Ah Hum Vajra Guru Padma Siddhi Hum
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ImTheDJEep
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: clockwork228]
#16340461 - 06/06/12 10:14 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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My experience with the ~15 was quite enjoyable. I would describe it like eating a teenth of decent mush, except cleaner. Very mellow body buzz, moderate OEVs, and general sense of warmth and well being. Watching the lights in the club and girls dancing was very fun. I kept saying to myself that I could easily handle another one of these doses. It was very mild and seemed like a tease. I felt like I could eat 15 mg of the stuff everyday as an antidepressant. I agree set & setting have a lot to do with the intensity of the experience, and am preparing my house, mind and soul to really jump in. Ego death is a little scary sometimes, even to someone who has been there dozens of times before and I am making sure I am ready for it. Although what you are saying is well informed, I have to disagree with your last statement: Chemicals can not be variable. 35 mg of 4-Aco-DMT is 35 mg of 4-Aco-DMT, no matter who or where you are. Now how that 35 mg affects you can be changed by a number of things, like set/setting & your personal chemistry. If a person has high levels of endogenous MAOIs (like pinoline, isatin) of course their trip will be harder than when they do not. Diet and exercise among a number of things affect the levels of these chemicals. So I guess dosage of ANY potent psychedelic is really a guessing game. Based on what you have said, I think ~30 mg should be right about where I want to go with this experience and will start there.
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)
Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: ImTheDJEep]
#16340602 - 06/06/12 10:51 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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4-acO-DMT is my life. Shoot it.
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clockwork228
Perpetual Student
Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 196
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: ImTheDJEep]
#16341213 - 06/06/12 01:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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I agree. I think that's basically what I was trying to say just in different words. Well good luck either way man. Be sure to post how it was afterward!
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Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Ah Hum Vajra Guru Padma Siddhi Hum
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lovesexdubstep
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: clockwork228]
#16343170 - 06/06/12 08:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm actually also curious to what dosage would likely result in a strong (4+ trip). All of my trips on any substance have been with relatively common doses and while I've had a peek at some of the psychedelic mindspace, I haven't gotten close to losing control over myself nor touched ego dissolution:
25mg 2ce had me dry heaving and painfully strong bodyload for 30 min then very strong bodyload paired with decent visuals. But still nothing mindblowing.
My second shroom trip with 2.5g lemon tek had me so stricken with nausea and bodyload that I had to just turn off all the lights and try to put myself to sleep instead of enjoying the also present sensory stimulation.
I've got a few hits of good acid that I'm saving indefinitely, and a few hits of shittier acid that gave a decent trip off 3 but again nothing mindblowing.
As 4acodmt has the least bodyload/nausea issues of any psychedelic ive taken, it seems the best bet for me to attempt high doses so how much would it take to show me the deeper end of the psychedelic pool?
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molly  lucy  maryjane 
resident med student, PM science based questions 
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ImTheDJEep
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: lovesexdubstep]
#16368646 - 06/12/12 12:58 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quick follow up: 25 mg of 4 AcO DMT was perfect for a strong level 3 experience. I went to a concert, so I didn't really want to shoot for a full blown level 4 but maybe it kinda bordered on that level. Although my OEVs were only moderate, everything appeared much more beautiful than it normally does. I could also sense energy emanating from people around me. I felt that the band was changing the universe & possibly signalling the end of the world as we know it simply by playing music. Reality seemed to have changed into something different yet very warm and comforting when the band finished. I believed that maybe my children (at home asleep in bed) experienced the shift in the universe that I had too, and worried about their well being and hoped they were taking it as well as I was. The break with reality was fleeting, it lasted maybe 25 mins. On the decent I felt reborn, but did not necessarily feel the confusing ego death as I know it from LSD. I simply felt in tune with the universe and like my purpose in life was clarified. It was an amazingly wonderful and insightful experience. After testing the material at this level, I really think between 28 and 32 mg will give me a solid level 4 experience. When the weather clears up I plan on trying the 32 mg to shoot for a level 4 and wander through nature in the moonlight with a close friend.
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spazmodog
Registered: 02/27/11
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: ImTheDJEep]
#16368992 - 06/12/12 03:38 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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i find 25mg to be a bit on the weak side, and for me at least, 32mg is no where near like 5 grams of cubies
but i might have weak 4 aco
or just have a higher natural tolerence
on a side note
i sold 325mg of the stuff to my dealer the other day,
he split it ALL with a friend.... 162mg each
i fucking lol'd
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spazmodog
Registered: 02/27/11
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: spazmodog]
#16369000 - 06/12/12 03:41 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chemicals can not be variable.
not sure about this
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ImTheDJEep
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Registered: 06/05/12
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: spazmodog]
#16369890 - 06/12/12 10:07 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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How can a chemical be variable? If you have x mg of a chemical, that's what you have. All the molecules act the same way: Its not like 1 molecule of this chemical acts on your nervous system more than another. They are the same thing. The purity of a batch can vary, but that just means that you have something else than just the chemical in question. Chemicals will degrade under the right conditions and change into something that is not active, but again, that just means that you have something else that the chemical in question. A chemical is what it is and that's just it.
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ImTheDJEep
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: spazmodog]
#16369915 - 06/12/12 10:12 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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But on your side note- 162 mg each???  Holy wow. I can only imagine how intense that would be. I don't think I would ever dose that high just because I wonder how much of the chem I would be wasting. I mean are you going to trip that much harder with 160 mg vs 60
mg? I dunno. Never tried it.
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Saint Marcus
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#16370162 - 06/12/12 10:54 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheMushroomJesus said:
4-acO-DMT is my life. Shoot it.
He is a G! This is probably something like how it went when the beat drops
I really enjoy 4 aco but last time i had it that shit was cursed. It had some really negative energy/intentions put into it. The fucking reptiles came out 
I would say 40 mg's 
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Saint Marcus
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: spazmodog]
#16370166 - 06/12/12 10:56 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
spazmodog said:
i sold 325mg of the stuff to my dealer the other day,
he split it ALL with a friend.... 162mg each
i fucking lol'd
OMG! How did that work out for him??? OMG! He mustv been fucking blasted! 
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lovesexdubstep
buy the ticket, take the ride
Registered: 12/18/11
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: spazmodog]
#16370364 - 06/12/12 11:33 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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On the molecular level, a chemical is a chemical, different chemists and labs get their precursors from different sources and use different synthesis methods but if in the end their product exhibits the correct structure on the GCMS/NMR, it has the exact same properties as any other sample.
However, in the real world there is some variation coming from the initial purity of the precursors used, and skill of the chemist to properly purify everything. Through the distillation or recrystallization or w/e methods they use for purifying, even a practiced chemist may only get 90+% purity.
As far as 4acodmt is concerned though, there are different forms of it (freebase, fumarate salt etc) which are slight variations on the chemical makeup (maybe a different functional group bonded to the base molecule) and there are reportedly slightly different effects per mg between them.
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molly lucy maryjane
resident med student, PM science based questions
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lovesexdubstep
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: lovesexdubstep]
#16370420 - 06/12/12 11:43 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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On another note, I took 25mg yesterday and had a decent trip. I timed it to watch the sunset, the sky was orange/red and spread color onto the clouds. Quite nice OEV, for a tryptamine although visually I still prefer cid/phenethylamines. And the trip forced me to spend much of the peak rethinking aspects of my life.
Unfortunately, 4aco seems to give me a fair amount of nausea and heavy feeling. I like its sedating qualities, but especially during the comeup I feel rather sick, the feeling of nearly needing to vomit, basically have to sit down and wait for the comeup to finish. I ate a little ginger before hand, smoked, and sipped my spiked lemonade over 45 minutes to try and fight this negative aspect of the trip.
I think I'll try 30mg next.
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molly lucy maryjane
resident med student, PM science based questions
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spazmodog
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: ImTheDJEep]
#16372527 - 06/12/12 06:49 PM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ImTheDJEep said:
But on your side note- 162 mg each??? Holy wow. I can only imagine how intense that would be. I don't think I would ever dose that high just because I wonder how much of the chem I would be wasting. I mean are you going to trip that much harder with 160 mg vs 60
mg? I dunno. Never tried it.
yeah this guy is serious hard ass... i think he fucking loved it, 
although he hasnt given me many details
hes the kinda guy that would take seeing/beeing/feeling god etc in his stride tbh....
although i personally would prefer to work my way up slower instead of jumping strait in there, although im sure that has its benefits!! 
ive done 60mg as highest dose,but having tripped 2 days before, but i feel 4 aco is slightly lacking gusto, its a great drug for sure but has never really blown me away
however that might change later this week as i have heard great stuff about the mescaline 4aco combo, so gonna try that out... 
ill let u guys know if you are at all interested 
Quote:
ImTheDJEep said:
How can a chemical be variable?
The label that i get on my drugs reads 99.9% purity, im not a  so i dont nessesarily beleve that my drugs are really that pure
oh and im not trying to imply that u are a buy the buy
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ImTheDJEep
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Re: Level 4 Experience: 4-Aco-DMT Dosage [Re: spazmodog]
#16374399 - 06/13/12 12:47 AM (11 years, 10 months ago) |
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I agree that even though the label says 99.9% pure, it is quite possible that is not really the case. I would hope a respected vendor wouldn't fib; but hey, people can be shady or misinformed. Now as far as if it is possible to get to that purity, it absolutely is! A competent chemist can definitely get it there with the right work up and recrystallization technique. I agree that from what I have seen so far, the 4Aco is missing something. I was expecting a much more visual experience, and I think a little bit of M or a 2C would give a nice flavor to the dish. I do think that 4Aco alone would be a great intro to psychedelics since it is mellow, relatively short lasting, and lacking a serious body load; but packs enough of a punch to be able to see what mind expansion is really about.
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