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InvisibleIcelander
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The cost of war today.
    #16355835 - 06/09/12 01:31 PM (11 months, 5 days ago)

It seems that a average of one US serviceman per day is committing suicide.  This is twice as many as are KIA in these wars  we have currently  engaged in.

Anyone want to speculate on why this is?


--------------------

"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous

“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: Icelander]
    #16355902 - 06/09/12 01:49 PM (11 months, 5 days ago)

Because soldiers generally fit the most common suicide demographic?
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/menshealth/facts/depressionsuicide.htm

Quote:



Suicide accounts for l in 100 deaths. The majority of those who die in this way are men.

.............................................

Risk factors for suicide

As well as being male, several other risk factors for suicide have been identified.

    Age: suicide in men peaks in the 20s and again in the 60s and 70s.
    Unemployment: the suicide rate has been shown to rise and fall with the unemployment rate in a number of countries – half of the record 33,000 people who committed suicide in Japan in 1999 were unemployed.
    Social isolation: those who kill themselves often live alone and have little contact with others. They may have been recently widowed or have never married.
    Chronic illness: any chronic illness increases the risk of suicide.
    Certain occupations: people with certain occupations are more likely to die by suicide, for example farmers (who usually work alone, may be unmarried and have access to the means of suicide, such as a shotgun or poisonous weedkiller).

Many of the above risk factors affect men more than women. It is important to remember that many people are subject to these factors, but only a tiny minority of them will end their own lives.

Other factors are also significant. The most important risk factor is the presence of a mental illness. The most important protective factor is the presence of good support from family or friends.




Of soldiers who have been in and through Iraq and Afghanistan the KIA rate is extremely low.  I do not know that the suicide rate for soldiers is significantly higher than for the general population when controlled for demographics.  If the normal population suicide rate is 1 in a hundred, as stated above, and over a million soldiers have cycled through Iraq and Afghanistan (I'm guessing on that but it's probably close) then the expected suicide count would be at least 10,000 for the general population, which this isn't.  How many KIAs are there?  Less than that.


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InvisibleEnlil
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16355999 - 06/09/12 02:09 PM (11 months, 5 days ago)

I don't know if I believe that the suicide rate is any higher than it would be for civilian population, but I do know this:

If they die from suicide, it's a whole lot cheaper than if they survive and go to college on the GI bill...


--------------------
Ask a defense attorney

Fuck the Amish

Rail_Gun said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"

Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16356306 - 06/09/12 03:36 PM (11 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Because soldiers generally fit the most common suicide demographic?
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/menshealth/facts/depressionsuicide.htm

Quote:



Suicide accounts for l in 100 deaths. The majority of those who die in this way are men.

.............................................

Risk factors for suicide

As well as being male, several other risk factors for suicide have been identified.

    Age: suicide in men peaks in the 20s and again in the 60s and 70s.
    Unemployment: the suicide rate has been shown to rise and fall with the unemployment rate in a number of countries – half of the record 33,000 people who committed suicide in Japan in 1999 were unemployed.
    Social isolation: those who kill themselves often live alone and have little contact with others. They may have been recently widowed or have never married.
    Chronic illness: any chronic illness increases the risk of suicide.
    Certain occupations: people with certain occupations are more likely to die by suicide, for example farmers (who usually work alone, may be unmarried and have access to the means of suicide, such as a shotgun or poisonous weedkiller).

Many of the above risk factors affect men more than women. It is important to remember that many people are subject to these factors, but only a tiny minority of them will end their own lives.

Other factors are also significant. The most important risk factor is the presence of a mental illness. The most important protective factor is the presence of good support from family or friends.




Of soldiers who have been in and through Iraq and Afghanistan the KIA rate is extremely low.  I do not know that the suicide rate for soldiers is significantly higher than for the general population when controlled for demographics.  If the normal population suicide rate is 1 in a hundred, as stated above, and over a million soldiers have cycled through Iraq and Afghanistan (I'm guessing on that but it's probably close) then the expected suicide count would be at least 10,000 for the general population, which this isn't.  How many KIAs are there?  Less than that.





If you are correct then this is just sensationalism in the Media. Too bad they aren't offing themselves a little more. :lol:


--------------------

"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous

“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: Icelander]
    #16356322 - 06/09/12 03:41 PM (11 months, 5 days ago)

What media?  You didn't say.  (But I know whoooie:wink:)


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Offlinebirdbrain92
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16356344 - 06/09/12 03:46 PM (11 months, 5 days ago)

i was a young didnt know that signing that contract was destructive


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InvisibleEnlil
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: birdbrain92] * 2
    #16356350 - 06/09/12 03:48 PM (11 months, 5 days ago)

Then you chose the right username.


--------------------
Ask a defense attorney

Fuck the Amish

Rail_Gun said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"

Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: Icelander]
    #16357289 - 06/09/12 07:38 PM (11 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It seems that a average of one US serviceman per day is committing suicide.  This is twice as many as are KIA in these wars  we have currently  engaged in.

Anyone want to speculate on why this is?





Many reasons coming together to give them an overall mood of hopelessness.

  • War sucks
  • The military sucks in general
  • Extremely unpleasant work environment, asshole commanding officers, locals want you dead
  • Low pay
  • Lots of guns around
  • Severely restricted freedoms / civil rights
  • Many of the places our troops are deployed have few women - Not nearly enough for everyone.
  • War trama / PTSD
  • Lack of feeling of accomplishment.  Many people in the US view the last 5 wars as pointless and a waste of time and money.
  • The kind of people who sign up for the military aren't exactly the cream of the crop.  Its not a random cross section.


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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,149
Loc: MICHIGAN
Re: The cost of war today. [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #16357363 - 06/09/12 07:54 PM (11 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
It seems that a average of one US serviceman per day is committing suicide.  This is twice as many as are KIA in these wars  we have currently  engaged in.

Anyone want to speculate on why this is?





Many reasons coming together to give them an overall mood of hopelessness.

  • War sucks
  • The military sucks in general
  • Extremely unpleasant work environment, asshole commanding officers, locals want you dead
  • Low pay
  • Lots of guns around
  • Severely restricted freedoms / civil rights
  • Many of the places our troops are deployed have few women - Not nearly enough for everyone.
  • War trama / PTSD
  • Lack of feeling of accomplishment.  Many people in the US view the last 5 wars as pointless and a waste of time and money.
  • The kind of people who sign up for the military aren't exactly the cream of the crop.  Its not a random cross section.






This. I almost cannot believe we still have so many that enlist. Nationalism and selfishness have some
deep roots in this country.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: DeadHearts] * 1
    #16357592 - 06/09/12 08:54 PM (11 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

DeadHearts said:
I almost cannot believe we still have so many that enlist. Nationalism and selfishness have some
deep roots in this country.





I think it has more to do with ignorance of what they are signing up for, and lack of worthwhile career opportunities for young people in rural areas.



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OfflineHumility
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: Enlil]
    #16357612 - 06/09/12 08:59 PM (11 months, 5 days ago)

Deadhearts why you tryin to be tricksy?

That didn't sound at all like something Zappa would say.  I had to look at the name and everything.

Also Alan I don't see how guns "contribute to the general feeling of hopelessness".

birdbrain plenty of people have made the mistake you have.  Enlil is just jealous because he's still trapped and confused, feeling around the walls of his labyrinth like a mime on the streetcorner while you're free and growing with endless possibilities.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: Humility]
    #16358435 - 06/09/12 11:36 PM (11 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Humility said:
Also Alan I don't see how guns "contribute to the general feeling of hopelessness".





They don't.  It's just that there is a general feeling of hopelessness because the wars are pointless and ineffective, and there happen to be a lot of guns around.  Recipe for disaster.



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InvisibleAz0thM
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: Icelander] * 5
    #16359598 - 06/10/12 06:28 AM (11 months, 5 days ago)

I'd probably kill myself too if I was forced or signed up to murder people for a corporation


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~Thought Creates Reality~


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OfflineHumility
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: Az0th]
    #16359623 - 06/10/12 06:52 AM (11 months, 5 days ago)

^
This


--------------------


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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,149
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: Humility]
    #16359842 - 06/10/12 09:15 AM (11 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
I'd probably kill myself too if I was forced or signed up to murder people for a corporation



Quote:

Humility said:
^
This





:congrats:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: DeadHearts]
    #16360840 - 06/10/12 02:13 PM (11 months, 4 days ago)

Nobody forced anybody.  There hasn't been a draft for 40 years.


--------------------


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InvisibleDeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,149
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #16360868 - 06/10/12 02:20 PM (11 months, 4 days ago)

I know which is why Im not gona sit here and root on our troops because they are fighting the
good fight. No tears will be shed from me when they come back home in caskets. I dont want to see anyone
american or not getting hurt but when it comes to people enlisting because or money or other selfish,
ignorant reasons I will not support them whatsoever.

I was more or less just agreeing with the whole killing for corporations comment because thats exactly
what we are doing.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: DeadHearts]
    #16360985 - 06/10/12 02:49 PM (11 months, 4 days ago)

Who owns corporations?


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Offlinebirdbrain92
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: DeadHearts]
    #16360991 - 06/10/12 02:50 PM (11 months, 4 days ago)

Its the drunk politicians that are the war mongers. (Except ron paul)Alan Rockefeller is right about why people sign up.  All the propaganda in the united states brainwashes people into thinking that by being in the military they are fighting for your freedom. That is not the case at least in this day and age. The larger a government grows the more corrupt it becomes. The united states will send soldiers wherever they see money they can get their hands on. And everybody hates their government we are not so special. Lots of people hate Americans and the fault doesn't solely belong to the military.  American tourists go over to other countrys and think they are hott shit cause a genetic accident of where they were born.  Clean up the creation the whole world is evil. Dont hate on the least cruel military force in the world.They cant even fire their weapons unless they getting shot at. Look up the Geneva convention. For those who don't know what it is.. basically its a set of rules the military in this country follows. Do your research people look at what the taliban does to american's they capture. terrible things shit you guys couldn't imagine. If the taliban capture you special force would save your azzes. Look none of you have seen combat you dont know what its like. its nasty and its messy its not like your video games. Its souls leaving bodys at your own hands.  Have some sympathy for the people who think they are standing up for you cause they dont know any better blame yourselves for  for not informing them before they signed up. Im an earthling though i dont affiliate myself with any imperialistic empire. Please be professional and respectful if you don't agree with me.


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Offlinebirdbrain92
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Re: The cost of war today. [Re: Humility]
    #16361004 - 06/10/12 02:55 PM (11 months, 4 days ago)

I know thanks bro i didnt know any of this stuff when i joined. My parents raised me in a patriotic environment. I asked GOd for forgiveness and i enjoy every moment i can but yeah that dude trippen lets all smoke a blunt of caveman kush


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