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 Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,433
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Did you have to post a bond as well?
$40 per square foot plus $200 per linear foot of curb cut...but I had that no curb would be cut in the contract...They kept the bond for a year.
My street is concrete, so it cost me a bit more since they required that it be patched with concrete...even though there are no fewer than 13 identical cuts on my side of the street where others have replaced laterals...all patched with asphalt.
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Rail_Gun said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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 OhLongJohnson
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/12
Posts: 52
Last seen: 11 months, 8 days
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 Re: Welfare  [Re: Enlil]
#16342091 - 06/06/12 06:28 PM (11 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
You really wouldn't have to...People do community service hours cleaning the sides of the roads...I don't see why we couldn't put welfare recipients to work doing it...
And local municipalities could start all kinds of programs for very little money...I can envision a program to help the old/handicapped people in the city maintain their yards...good for property values and would cost very little to run with free labor.
The stranglehold that state/county unions have over public works is another issue altogether. That's simply a bad idea...The state should spend my money like any smart consumer would...and that usually won't mean unions...
I had to have the street cut open to change my sewer lateral...I picked the cheapest contractor..He did it for 6k...Of course, the fucking cop that I was required to pay three days salary plus overtime cost me an additional $1500...That's a whole lot more than I make in three days...and I have to do more than sit in my car with the AC running and the lights on.
What would you do with all the people who were going to do community service?
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Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,433
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Jail or probation...or both....community service is to replace a fine...anyone who would rather work off a fine at a rate of $3 an hour is likely already on welfare or some other government dole.
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Rail_Gun said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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OhLongJohnson
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/12
Posts: 52
Last seen: 11 months, 8 days
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Re: Welfare [Re: Enlil]
#16342144 - 06/06/12 06:39 PM (11 months, 9 days ago) |
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Community service isn't just to replace a fine. Probation is in lieu of jail time, and most commonly probation comes packaged with a nice sum of community service hours.
Are you suggesting we imprison more non-violent offenders at the cost of ~$30,000/yr to provide work for those on food/housing assistance, who most likely cost the state less than that ~$30,000/yr? Should we lock up more bread-winners for being caught with drugs, or prostitution -- leading to more families on welfare?
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Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,433
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Quote:
OhLongJohnson said:
Community service isn't just to replace a fine. Probation is in lieu of jail time, and most commonly probation comes packaged with a nice sum of community service hours.
Only by choice...it certainly doesn't have to be that way.
Quote:
Are you suggesting we imprison more non-violent offenders at the cost of ~$30,000/yr to provide work for those on food/housing assistance, who most likely cost the state less than that ~$30,000/yr? Should we lock up more bread-winners for being caught with drugs, or prostitution -- leading to more families on welfare?
That's exactly what I'm suggesting...You've found me out...
Are you normally psychic? because I don't recall ever saying that a drug user should go to jail for using drugs...or that a prostitute should go to jail for hooking...but somehow you've read my mind and decided to out me right here on a drug forum!!!
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Rail_Gun said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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OhLongJohnson
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/12
Posts: 52
Last seen: 11 months, 8 days
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Re: Welfare [Re: Enlil]
#16342198 - 06/06/12 06:50 PM (11 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Only by choice...it certainly doesn't have to be that way.
How many first time offenders are employed, breadwinners of a family? Would you suggest they should go to jail for a month, losing their job and gaining a criminal record, instead of doing community service work?
Quote:
Are you normally psychic?
I wouldn't call it psychic.
Quote:
because I don't recall ever saying that a drug user should go to jail for using drugs...or that a prostitute should go to jail for hooking...but somehow you've read my mind and decided to out me right here on a drug forum!!!
Just because I list two common reasons for non-violent offenders to be jailed for, doesn't mean those are the only reasons. Your point still stands: lock more people in cages, degrade the people receiving food/housing assistance to work the jobs you used to make criminals do for free.
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Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,433
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Quote:
OhLongJohnson said:
Your point still stands: lock more people in cages, degrade the people receiving food/housing assistance to work the jobs you used to make criminals do for free.
Is that what you think my point was?
You're not very good at this reading comprehension thing.
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Rail_Gun said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,300
Last seen: 17 hours, 10 minutes
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Quote:
OhLongJohnson said:
degrade the people receiving food/housing assistance to work the jobs you used to make criminals do for free.
There is nothing degrading about work. Being on the dole is degrading.
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SlashOZ
:D
Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,546
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Quote:
Memories said:
Quote:
SlashOZ said:
Quote:
Memories said:
Why should we give them more excess luxury?
If we can give them more we should. That's like asking why you should pass a joint around a circle instead of keeping it to yourself. If you can you should share.
You fail to provide a reason why other than we can so we should.
Everyone can worship me so they should.
no shit. be a greedy dick if you want. honestly. if you want a discussion on the is/ought distinction, ie the should, in my position then you should read Hume or for more on why sharing is good you can read some Kant. I can't give you a reason why you should do anything because that is a personal moral choice. If you think being greedy and hoarding wealth is better than fairly distributing the wealth there is nothing i can say to change your mind. you have to make the decision to be a good person on your own. you and fireworks appear to have made the decision to not be a good person. i feel sorry for you two. luckily society and human history is on my side and we redistribute wealth on a massive scale.
also, should is a suggestion type term rather than a directive type term. there is nothing definitive about it. i don't feel like anyone should justify why they think they should do things for moral purposes such as being nice and helping others. trying to justify such acts just degrades the acts. now perhaps if i had said something like, "if we can share we must share" then you might have a point. I'm not making any sort of definitive moral imperative here such as saying that we must do something.
so don't try to act like i need a reason to want to help other people. if i can help people that want help i will help them. simple as that. if you have a problem with that then you need to re-evaluate your life.
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"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
Edited by SlashOZ (06/06/12 07:28 PM)
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OhLongJohnson
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/12
Posts: 52
Last seen: 11 months, 8 days
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
OhLongJohnson said:
degrade the people receiving food/housing assistance to work the jobs you used to make criminals do for free.
There is nothing degrading about work. Being on the dole is degrading.
You consider picking up trash on the side of the highway work?
I wish I could have picked up trash while doing community service.
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Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,433
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Quote:
OhLongJohnson said:
You consider picking up trash on the side of the highway work?
I wish I could have picked up trash while doing community service.
No...it's a party...wtf else would it be if it isn't work?
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Rail_Gun said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,300
Last seen: 17 hours, 10 minutes
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Quote:
OhLongJohnson said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
OhLongJohnson said:
degrade the people receiving food/housing assistance to work the jobs you used to make criminals do for free.
There is nothing degrading about work. Being on the dole is degrading.
You consider picking up trash on the side of the highway work?
YesQuote:
I wish I could have picked up trash while doing community service.
Maybe you should be wishing that you weren't so dumb that you got a community service sentence.
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OhLongJohnson
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/12
Posts: 52
Last seen: 11 months, 8 days
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Quote:
Yes
What would this work, per hour, be worth?
Quote:
Maybe you should be wishing that you weren't so dumb that you got a community service sentence.
We can't all be as intelligent and wise as you early in our lives.
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Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,433
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Quote:
OhLongJohnson said:
What would this work, per hour, be worth?
Is that the factor that determines whether or not it's work? How much is flipping burgers worth? Or cleaning someone's toilets? Or changing someone's oil? Or swapping out a kidney?
The market determines that...whether it's work or not is a completely separate issue.
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Rail_Gun said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,300
Last seen: 17 hours, 10 minutes
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Quote:
OhLongJohnson said:
Quote:
Yes
What would this work, per hour, be worth?
Not much, but don't you think it needs doing? It certainly isn't worth a union wage.Quote:
Quote:
Maybe you should be wishing that you weren't so dumb that you got a community service sentence.
We can't all be as intelligent and wise as you early in our lives.
This is certainly true. I don't want to break your heart but most people do not have an arrest record complete with convictions.
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Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,433
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I don't want to break your heart but most people do not have an arrest record complete with convictions.
I do...That's the main reason it took them two years to license me after I passed the bar.
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Rail_Gun said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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OhLongJohnson
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/12
Posts: 52
Last seen: 11 months, 8 days
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Re: Welfare [Re: Enlil]
#16342453 - 06/06/12 07:50 PM (11 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Is that the factor that determines whether or not it's work? How much is flipping burgers worth? Or cleaning someone's toilets? Or changing someone's oil? Or swapping out a kidney?
All of your analagies are obviously worth something to somebody, otherwise the jobs wouldn't exist 
But, no, wage isn't a determinant of what work is. I like to think of work as a function of energy input vs output produced including wages and profit/loss for the company.
The market determines that...whether it's work or not is a completely separate issue.
Well, if the government is the one providing this work, in return for food/housing assistance, then the market has nothing to do with what would determine the wage.
Quote:
Not much, but don't you think it needs doing? It certainly isn't worth a union wage.
Yes, it needs doing, but you really think that making people on food/housing assistance is the best way to do it? What is wrong with the current system?
Quote:
This is certainly true. I don't want to break your heart but most people do not have an arrest record complete with convictions.
I guess I'm included in that statistic, seeing as my record was completely expunged after two years of probation and a lot of hard community service work.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,300
Last seen: 17 hours, 10 minutes
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Re: Welfare [Re: Enlil]
#16342457 - 06/06/12 07:51 PM (11 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I don't want to break your heart but most people do not have an arrest record complete with convictions.
I do...That's the main reason it took them two years to license me after I passed the bar.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,300
Last seen: 17 hours, 10 minutes
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Quote:
OhLongJohnson said:
Quote:
Not much, but don't you think it needs doing? It certainly isn't worth a union wage.
Yes, it needs doing, but you really think that making people on food/housing assistance is the best way to do it?
Yes. Or anything else.Quote:
What is wrong with the current system?
It is bleeding the country dryQuote:
Quote:
This is certainly true. I don't want to break your heart but most people do not have an arrest record complete with convictions.
I guess I'm included in that statistic, seeing as my record was completely expunged after two years of probation and a lot of hard community service work.
I guess you are. What did they make you do?
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Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,433
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Quote:
OhLongJohnson said:
I guess I'm included in that statistic, seeing as my record was completely expunged after two years of probation and a lot of hard community service work.
Being expunged doesn't mean that it's deleted...you still have a record...as do I...Mine is expunged as well, but the bar associations still saw it and wanted to discuss it.
As far as your wage vs. worth argument...You never asked what the wages would be...you asked what the work would be worth...that's determined by the market...wages aren't determined by the market when we have things like minimum wage and unions to muck that all up...
As far as what is wrong with the current system...where does one start? The major problem with it is that it encourages people to stay on the dole instead of encouraging people to become productive members of society...
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Rail_Gun said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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