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 rapisbad3
Legalization Dissident
 
Registered: 07/03/11
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 My take on Christianity. 
#16333032 - 06/04/12 10:02 PM (11 months, 13 days ago) |
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During my senior year of High School, I took an Advance Placement European History course, Which I found to be truly enlightening and revolutionary to my view on the world. But my one protest with this class was how religion was wholly put down as fanatical, blind, and medieval. Dont get me wrong, I have never truly been a fundamentalist Christian, although my parents brought me to church often as a kid. I consider myself an agnostic. Christianity was something to give people living in brutal medieval times hope, so that they would believe that their struggle for existence wasn't in vain. And guess what? It wasn't, and that is proved by the very fact that im on a computer right now. Religion was a medieval political technique to guide the emerging masses, who were incapable of fully understanding why they should choose a reward later on then now, or why they should follow the law even though shitty medieval government's couldn't enforce them. Christ was the "Ideal man" that everyone needed to behave like if we wanted any hope of staying on a higher path.
But my friends, many of you suffer from possibly a worse fallacy than religion, and that is the path of the absolute atheist... god speaks to us through the natural laws of the universe, such as evolution, chemistry, mathematics, and logic. These are god's handwriting, and science decodes his language. Not a literal deity or fundamentalist world view, but nature, and viewing it for what it truly is.
If you look at mankind like a spaceship, religion was like the initial thruster that got us out of the atmosphere, and is now being jettisoned. Essential in our infancy, but hindering in our prime. It is time we moved the same emotions and importance we placed on religion onto the pursuit of progress, freedom, enlightenment, and heightened consciousness for all.
I am interested in what you guys have to say.
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 c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,028
Loc: NY
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 Re: My take on Christianity. [Re: rapisbad3]
#16333396 - 06/04/12 11:16 PM (11 months, 13 days ago) |
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I don't see it from quite an absolute, black and white perspective. Religion could be seen from one of a variety levels. There is your religion as a political institution, which is a tool for control - which in contemporary times has been replaced by governments, mass media and any other massive cultural influence which controllers can hijack for their benefit. But I also see there is another level of religion, which has a core of positive spiritual values - mind you there is a lot of garbage that must be sifted through in order to get to. So I don't discard religion as a multifaceted idea outright.
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
    
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Lion
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Re: My take on Christianity. [Re: rapisbad3]
#16333697 - 06/05/12 12:20 AM (11 months, 13 days ago) |
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The one thing about Christianity that gets overlooked by mainstream atheist critics is how much knowledge was discovered and preserved by Christian monastics through the medieval period in Europe. If it weren't for them, medical science, nutrition, astronomy, and dozens of other fields wouldn't be nearly as developed as they are. The medieval period wasn't just uniform Dark Age without progression; there were a small few who dedicated themselves in earnest to the betterment of humanity through knowledge and invention, and they were also devout Christians.
To be fair, the critics can rightly point out how that spirit of discovery and drive to understand natural law was often greatly overshadowed by its opposite, a desire to control people and limit their understanding to religious dogma. Just like in Islam, Christianity has currents of great wisdom that can be hard to follow in the raging stream of regressive politics and fear-mongering.
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usulpsychonaut
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Re: My take on Christianity. [Re: Lion] 1
#16333952 - 06/05/12 01:15 AM (11 months, 13 days ago) |
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Christianity was designed to control people and caused the dark ages, any development of wisdom happened in spite of the church, not because of it. Where ever the church got wind of developing intelligence everyone involved received cruel punishment. Anyone involved in intelligence is a heretic and in league with Satan.
Other forms of Christianity happened in spite of the church, but most of these reformations were worse than the original roman church. Yes there are gnostic and mystic folks who think they are christian, but the majority of actual christians would most likely think of them as satanic. There was no popular christian event that was not designed by the empire of rome, it was a deliberate political maneuver to oppress and control.
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In every winter there's a different cold
in every winter I feel so old
so very old as the night
so very old as the dreadful cold
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Visionary Tools
I <3 Thomas Jefferson
Registered: 06/23/07
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Quote:
usulpsychonaut said:
Christianity was designed to control people and caused the dark ages
Would have nothing to do with the output of the sun of course. The church, despite it's evil, is not responsible for crops failing because the summers were too short and the winters too long. It was called the dark ages because it was actually dark during those times, not just metaphorically, but literally dark.
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Wiccan_Seeker said:
slide down a pole than with your legs spread and using your pussy as a brake. Ask the fire department 
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rikuni
Registered: 04/06/10
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Quote:
But my friends, many of you suffer from possibly a worse fallacy than religion, and that is the path of the absolute atheist
I have to disagree. The worst is the religious follower of the mainstream religions.
An atheist questions things at least, does not believe the stuff that they want you to believe.
The religious follower does not question, does not allow other opinions, he can and will even kill to defend his belief.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,028
Loc: NY
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Re: My take on Christianity. [Re: rikuni]
#16334927 - 06/05/12 09:41 AM (11 months, 13 days ago) |
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It scares me how time and time again in this supposedly open-minded forum, people often refer to large heterogeneous groups in these absolute terms, often equating a whole group with the worst aspects of the minority. I understand making the world that black and white helps with your conceptualization of it, but come on...
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Mycotheologist
Stranger
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Re: My take on Christianity. [Re: rapisbad3]
#16334962 - 06/05/12 10:03 AM (11 months, 13 days ago) |
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Christianity is sugar in the spaceships fuel tank. It thrusted hordes religious extremists in the middle ages to the middle east to slaughter non christians but as for the mental, spiritual and scientific evolution of humanity, its been nothing but a hindrance. It actually reverses advancement in these areas.
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BlindSoothsayer
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I consider myself an atheist in much the same respect as Richard Dawkins. That is, I believe that there <i>probably</i> is no god, but there's a chance that there is. If I labeled myself as an agnostic, that could give the impression that I'm split 50/50. I agree with you that religion probably was helpful in the infancy of civilization, and that it is more of a hindrance now. However, I think there are still people today who benefit from religion. If it makes you happy, then I have no problem with your beliefs.
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I like whiskey in my water and acid on my blotter.
The past is brought into perspective only after new experience is gained: before that point, experience is never truly realized.
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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If I labeled myself as an agnostic, that could give the impression that I'm split 50/50.
I don't see it that way. Being agnostic is a simple position of ultimate uncertainty and not any particular percentage. I'm fairly sure there is no god, I'm almost 100% certain that no human description of god, if it exists, is accurate, and all religions around a god are based in death/impermanence anxiety. But hey, who knows. 
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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usulpsychonaut
Hungry Ghost
Registered: 05/13/08
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Re: My take on Christianity. [Re: Icelander]
#16337145 - 06/05/12 07:11 PM (11 months, 13 days ago) |
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My first response is just my shallow grasp of history. The story was constructed, the Christ was a word, a royal title, not an actual person, the 12 disciples were not real people, they are the zodiac. In my memory of history, the dark age also had some thing to do with all the science, medicine and mysteries having gone up screaming in flames and smoke.
Of course christianity can be a legitimate meaningful path and so to can national socialism be. I am as christian as any satanist here. It's impossible to unlearn stuff right? so I am every fucking religion I ever read about.
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In every winter there's a different cold
in every winter I feel so old
so very old as the night
so very old as the dreadful cold
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/10/99
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Excellent author! Excellent book! I'm on the last few pages: http://www.amazon.com/Christ-Egypt-The-Horus-Jesus-Connection/dp/0979963117/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338949643&sr=8-1
D.M. Murdock goes deeper into the infrastructure of Christianity than John Shelby Spong does. Spong remains within the sphere of a historical Jesus, which he wisely demythologizes. Murdock reveals the Egyptian roots underlying the myths which were then retitled with Jewish characters. Fascinating, if one wants to understand Christianity like a scientist. Spong is the 'chemist,' while Murdock is the 'physicist.'
http://TruthBeKnown.com/
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (06/08/12 12:19 PM)
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Rail_Gun
wizard
Registered: 06/30/01
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Quote:
usulpsychonaut said:
Christianity was designed to control people and caused the dark ages, any development of wisdom happened in spite of the church, not because of it. Where ever the church got wind of developing intelligence everyone involved received cruel punishment. Anyone involved in intelligence is a heretic and in league with Satan.
Other forms of Christianity happened in spite of the church, but most of these reformations were worse than the original roman church. Yes there are gnostic and mystic folks who think they are christian, but the majority of actual christians would most likely think of them as satanic. There was no popular christian event that was not designed by the empire of rome, it was a deliberate political maneuver to oppress and control.
Quite succinctly stated good sir! You are absolutely correct. In fact, there is actually no evidence that Jesus existed at all. There is evidence however that the myths associated with him predate him and exist in ancient near east religions. The amalgamation of these religions was a construct of the Roman Empire to maintain and expand their authority.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,028
Loc: NY
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Re: My take on Christianity. [Re: Rail_Gun]
#16338648 - 06/06/12 12:18 AM (11 months, 12 days ago) |
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Eh, Jesus is probably one of the most documented historical figures from his time.
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Rail_Gun
wizard
Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 9,282
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Re: My take on Christianity. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#16338703 - 06/06/12 12:33 AM (11 months, 12 days ago) |
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The only independent account of Jesus existing was in the writing of Josephus. It has now been conclusively proven that was a forgery added to Josephus' writings because those mentions of Jesus do not exist in the earliest manuscripts. It was a 4th century addition. There are many such discredited additions to historical records. What does it mean that this proven fraud is still taught in Bible Colleges as historical proof of Jesus' existence? It means that it's pretty weak if all they can cling to are discredited ideas. Science is about accepting things based on evidence. Religion is about rejecting evidence when it contradicts your deeply held delusions. Jesus is no more historical of a person than Luke Skywalker or Han Solo. He was simply made up.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,917
Loc: underbelly
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Re: My take on Christianity. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#16339293 - 06/06/12 03:41 AM (11 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Eh, Jesus is probably one of the most documented historical figures from his time.
I don't think so dude. 
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 7,658
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Re: My take on Christianity. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#16339951 - 06/06/12 09:22 AM (11 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Eh, Jesus is probably one of the most documented historical figures from his time.
Got a source to back this up? In my limited reading on the subject, I've found there is quite a bit of ambiguity around whether he existed. His life was indeed heavily written about, but not while he was alive, nor in the decades immediately following his death.
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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Re: My take on Christianity. [Re: Rail_Gun] 1
#16340119 - 06/06/12 10:21 AM (11 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
The only independent account of Jesus existing was in the writing of Josephus. It has now been conclusively proven that was a forgery added to Josephus' writings because those mentions of Jesus do not exist in the earliest manuscripts. It was a 4th century addition. There are many such discredited additions to historical records. What does it mean that this proven fraud is still taught in Bible Colleges as historical proof of Jesus' existence? It means that it's pretty weak if all they can cling to are discredited ideas. Science is about accepting things based on evidence. Religion is about rejecting evidence when it contradicts your deeply held delusions. Jesus is no more historical of a person than Luke Skywalker or Han Solo. He was simply made up.
Oh is that how science works. So if a person from ANCIENT history cannot be proven to exist using science than your conclusion is they probably didnt exist? Actually you go a step further and conclude that there is virtually no possibility he existed.. "luke skywalker" haha..
You are using the same logic as the bible schools in thinking that this one historian either proves or disproves whether or not Jesus existed.
You misapply science to make an erroneous, massively over-simplified conclusion and think you are being rational/logical, what a shame. Jesus doesn't equal Christianity btw.. and just because something is not written on a piece of paper does not mean it did not happen.
From wiki
Quote:
The Christ myth theory (also known as Jesus mythicism, the Jesus myth theory and the nonexistence hypothesis) is the idea that Jesus of Nazareth was not a historical person, but is a fictional or mythological character created by the early Christian community.[1][2][3][4] Some proponents argue that events or sayings associated with the figure of Jesus in the New Testament may have been drawn from one or more individuals who actually existed, but that none of them were in any sense the founder of Christianity.[5] Virtually all scholars involved with historical Jesus research believe his existence can be established using documentary and other evidence, although most hold that much of the material about him in the New Testament should not be taken at face value.[6]
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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
Edited by soldatheero (06/06/12 10:21 AM)
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,028
Loc: NY
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Re: My take on Christianity. [Re: Lion]
#16340195 - 06/06/12 10:47 AM (11 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lion said:
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Eh, Jesus is probably one of the most documented historical figures from his time.
Got a source to back this up? In my limited reading on the subject, I've found there is quite a bit of ambiguity around whether he existed. His life was indeed heavily written about, but not while he was alive, nor in the decades immediately following his death.
I was going by the fact he is probably one of the most written about people in History, from that time. I don't know quite how many written sources identify him, but I know there are various Gospels written at different times, he is the most quoted in the Koran, as well as the more recent Gnostic texts discovered only in the past century - which date back to the Coptic-Eqyptian days.
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 7,658
Loc:
Last seen: 19 days, 12 hours
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Re: My take on Christianity. [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#16340223 - 06/06/12 10:54 AM (11 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:
Lion said:
Quote:
c0sm0nautt said:
Eh, Jesus is probably one of the most documented historical figures from his time.
Got a source to back this up? In my limited reading on the subject, I've found there is quite a bit of ambiguity around whether he existed. His life was indeed heavily written about, but not while he was alive, nor in the decades immediately following his death.
I was going by the fact he is probably one of the most written about people in History, from that time. I don't know quite how many written sources identify him, but I know there are various Gospels written at different times, he is the most quoted in the Koran, as well as the more recent Gnostic texts discovered only in the past century - which date back to the Coptic-Eqyptian days.
Indeed, but as I said, his death precedes all of these texts. He was never mentioned in writing until decades after his death. The Koran came centuries later, so it is not really relevant.
Quote:
Virtually all scholars involved with historical Jesus research believe his existence can be established using documentary and other evidence[6]
Meh, the source they give for this statement is three books that are far from definitive. Wikipedia: Still not a great source of information.
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