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 xFrockx
 
Registered: 09/18/06
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 What is meditation? 
#16278714 - 05/24/12 04:10 PM (1 year, 2 hours ago) |
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How does one properly meditate? Is there a way to properly meditate?
How does one know that meditation is working as it should? How should meditation work?
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 Me_Roy
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Re: What is meditation? [Re: xFrockx]  1
#16278760 - 05/24/12 04:21 PM (1 year, 2 hours ago) |
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There are many different answers to this question. Hindus focus on the sound of 'om.' Tibeten Buddhists imagine images - sometimes animated - of specific entities. Soto Zen Buddhists concentrate only on the breath while looking at the wall with half-closed eyes. They describe this practice as 'just sitting' and urge practitioners to avoid striving for anything in particular.
Group meditation is very useful. I would recommend attending a meeting of a Buddhist group to get your feet wet. You might be surprised at how scant the instructions are. The whole thing is kindof a black box -- even once inside, you're only groping around, until you finally cease your flailing and find your breath.
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A lotta cats a livin' in the neighborhood
Some are bandits,
Some are very, very good as I would tell it to ya'
- I-Roy
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husmmoor
moshi moshi
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Re: What is meditation? [Re: Me_Roy] 1
#16279260 - 05/24/12 06:40 PM (1 year, 20 minutes ago) |
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It's IMO really a mistake to translate these practices as 'meditation' though. But it's probably too late to revert the popular use of the term now.
Quote:
meditation (n.)
c.1200, "contemplation; devout preoccupation; devotions, prayer," from L. meditationem (nom. meditatio), noun of action from pp. stem of meditari "to meditate, to think over, consider," frequentative form from PIE root *med- "to measure, limit, consider, advise, take appropriate measures" (cf. Gk. medesthai "think about," medon "ruler;" L. modus "measure, manner," modestus "moderate," modernus "modern," mederi "to heal," medicus "physician;" Skt. midiur "I judge, estimate;" Welsh meddwl "mind, thinking;" Goth. miton, O.E. metan "to measure;" also see medical). Meaning "discourse on a subject" is early 14c.; meaning "act of meditating, continuous calm thought upon some subject" is from late 14c.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=meditation
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 redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 14,965
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Re: What is meditation? [Re: husmmoor]
#16279481 - 05/24/12 07:43 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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I have to agree, though many people still consider any dwelling or thinking to be a meditation, and many consider devotional activities and prayer to qualify as well, consensus is now drifting in the general populous to regard meditation as some mindfullness practice.
most mindfullness practices involve following the breath.
the ones that add nothing extra to the stream of consciousness are in the category of insight meditations,
and the ones that use mantras and yogic concentration are in the category of tranquility meditations, but both of these are mindfulness practices, and they converge into the development of tranquility that extends into insight.
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EternalCowabunga
Small sassy black girl
Registered: 04/04/05
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The important thing about meditation is that you are physically uncomfortable and grasping at the goal which is absorption or focus
Being phsyically uncomfortable will build character and teach you to go with the pain and be with it.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
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there are many types of aspirations that can lead a person to meditate.
mindfulness meditation is not like the hair-shirt meditations of medieval monks -
sure you can impose a hardship on yourself so you can GET THE POINT.
that is more in the way of visualization meditation or self hypnosis.
mindfulness meditation is about not adding anything - it is about awareness and taking refuge in what is.
for mindfulness there is no value in making yourself uncomfortable
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BlindSoothsayer
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I would say the way to meditate is to sit comfortably with good posture, in a place free from distraction. I personally prefer to close my eyes, though others do not. Start out by focusing on the breath. Be aware of your thoughts. Do not purposely try to suppress thoughts or clear your mind. Simply sit and watch as your thoughts come and go.
How does one know that meditation is working as it should? How should meditation work?
These questions are perhaps more open-ended than your first two. Personally, I believe meditation should allow you to be more calm, relaxed, and self-aware. You may sleep better or feel better about yourself. It can take weeks or months to achieve these benefits.
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I like whiskey in my water and acid on my blotter.
The past is brought into perspective only after new experience is gained: before that point, experience is never truly realized.
 
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Jaegar
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I've found taking a short nap just as effective if not more so then any meditation tried.
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White Beard
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Re: What is meditation? [Re: xFrockx]
#16287289 - 05/26/12 12:56 PM (11 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said:
How does one properly meditate? Is there a way to properly meditate?
How does one know that meditation is working as it should? How should meditation work?
I know meditation is working when I feel like a fetus or other weird shit be happening.
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MushroomNSwiss
Fuck off!
Registered: 02/19/12
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Loc: Prison showers
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I thought meditation was about clearing the mind of all thought? Or focusing maybe on 1 single thing? Fuck I don't what I'm talking about.
Focusing on the breath? Do you guys mean focusing on your breathing?
Interesting subject though since I was wondering this same thing, since my doctor recently suggested it to help with high blood pressure.
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The early bird may get the worm... but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
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The mind is comprised of only thought. How can you clear it of all though. Oh wait, there is one way. 
Even that is a debatable solution.
Meditation is more about understanding mind imo.
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MushroomNSwiss
Fuck off!
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I guess that's where I'm confused. I see what you mean about not clearing all thought. But if you are just sitting there thinking, what good is that?
For example, people with depression just sit and think and think and think. Yet, some doctors suggest meditation to help. How would more thinking help?
Maybe you can't clear your mind of all thought, but maybe concentrate on clearing it?
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The early bird may get the worm... but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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DoDahDay
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What I believe is a great way to describe Zen buddhist meditation is " to think non-thinking". Your thoughts are like passing clouds; they appear and disappear. Over time, they stop appearing or can be put in the foreground and the posture and your breath become your main focus. It calms everything you do. This is what I practice.
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"I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hampster and your father smelt of elderberries!"
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Freedom
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Re: What is meditation? [Re: DoDahDay]
#16287720 - 05/26/12 02:47 PM (11 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
White Beard said:
The mind is comprised of only thought. How can you clear it of all though. Oh wait, there is one way.
Even that is a debatable solution.
Meditation is more about understanding mind imo.
why do you include sensation and emotion as parts of thought? Or do you do you not include these things as parts of mind?
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Edited by Freedom (05/26/12 02:48 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
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Re: What is meditation? [Re: Freedom]
#16288166 - 05/26/12 04:40 PM (11 months, 22 days ago) |
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the mind certainly can be viewed as thoughts in procession.
or mental objects in procession.
such that each mental object includes sensation, and or related memory, and or words, and or impulses to enact something, and or dispositions to react.
thoughts can be any or all of these things.
by yoking it to a single thing, like the tip of the nose, and forming mental words to follow the in breath as :"beginning... middle... end..."; and then forming mental words to follow the out breath: "beginning... middle... end...";
the distracting variety of mental activity is reduced, and while you do not stop or inhibit all thought, you shape your thought to follow the natural breath.
if you are distracted, you gently return to the concentration on the tip of the nose and following the parts of each in breath and out breath.
if you have an especially deep breath you may note "a deep breath" and resume.
that is a simple and effective meditation that works as samatha (relaxation) lowering of blood pressure; and will turn into vipassana (insight).
there is no mumbo jumbo or visualization involved.
what it does is turn the procession of ranging mind objects into a yoked simple design.
because it is repetitive it can develop absorptions (jhana states - stoned making) but because it is voluntary and relaxing, when distractions occur - gently yoking back to the meditation is very healing and useful, since it puts a calm moment close to the topic of distraction.
over time all the distractions have close relations to the calm association.
that is the isight side of it.
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BlindSoothsayer
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Quote:
Focusing on the breath? Do you guys mean focusing on your breathing?
same thing
Quote:
DoDahDay said:
What I believe is a great way to describe Zen buddhist meditation is " to think non-thinking". Your thoughts are like passing clouds; they appear and disappear. Over time, they stop appearing or can be put in the foreground and the posture and your breath become your main focus. It calms everything you do. This is what I practice.
Quote:
How would more thinking help?
The problem is, virtually no matter what you do, you are always thinking. If you try to clear your mind, what exactly are you doing? Are you sitting there, telling yourself "don't think, don't think, don't think!" Isn't that in itself thinking?
I would describe meditation as meta-thinking. Rather than thinking on the first level, you rise above yourself. You observe your own thoughts from the second level. Then, you can truly know yourself.
This conversation could go many different directions. I think the best answer to "is there a way to properly meditate?" is no.
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I like whiskey in my water and acid on my blotter.
The past is brought into perspective only after new experience is gained: before that point, experience is never truly realized.
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MushroomNSwiss
Fuck off!
Registered: 02/19/12
Posts: 1,093
Loc: Prison showers
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I hear ya Blind. I'm only just learning about this. And have been thinking of trying it. I have a little better idea of what you guys are saying now. Probably a good idea to just focus on the breathing and relaxing when first starting out. And the Zen part will come later, I'm guessing.
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The early bird may get the worm... but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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stumpme
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I like the way you think ha
I like to bring up the quote from the Bible
"in our bodies we will see our creator"
that directly means respecting the body, your temple...meditation, iono how to do it good though, strange I have tried to meditate lots of times, and I just got an inversion table for my lower back...you know you hang upside down? I thought to try something while being upside down...its kinda peaceful being upside down
you do know we see upside down, and our brain flips it for us, not the eye...our brain works and flips the image the way we see it..kinda strange
to quote Leonardo Da Vinci,
"The eye — which sees all objects reversed — retains the images for some time."
and imo more things about the eye he states
"Here forms, here colours, here the character of every part of the universe are concentrated to a point; and that point is so marvellous a thing ... Oh! marvellous, O stupendous Necessity— by thy laws thou dost compel every effect to be the direct result of its cause, by the shortest path. These are miracles..."
and
"The smallest natural point is larger than all mathematical points, and this is proved because the natural point has continuity, and any thing that is continuous is infinitely divisible; but the mathematical point is indivisible because it has no size."
so I guess meditation to me is DEEP respect for, you have to think things through, than meditate on that...ha
Leonardo da Vinci said the function of muscles is to pull and not push..think about this with all your meditation and doings, he said but for the mouth and the genitals those two "push".
think about it!
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just give me a field and a sun ray!
Edited by stumpme (05/26/12 08:35 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 14,965
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Re: What is meditation? [Re: stumpme]
#16289648 - 05/26/12 11:03 PM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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the mystic references from olden days can be heartening,
In my opinion that is more in the direction of distraction.
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
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Quote:
MushroomNSwiss said:
I guess that's where I'm confused. I see what you mean about not clearing all thought. But if you are just sitting there thinking, what good is that?
For example, people with depression just sit and think and think and think. Yet, some doctors suggest meditation to help. How would more thinking help?
Maybe you can't clear your mind of all thought, but maybe concentrate on clearing it?
Negative thoughts arise, then they pass away. When you sit quietly you can pick up on this and start to dis-identify with the negative thought patterns, thus they have less control of your behavior. IME.
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