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 luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,849
Loc: Lost In Space
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 Re: Quebec student strike  [Re: zappaisgod]
#16325887 - 06/03/12 12:59 PM (11 months, 12 days ago) |
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Excellent summation.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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 zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,300
Last seen: 15 hours, 5 minutes
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Why thank you professor.
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Amphibolos
Duc de la complexité
Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 270
Loc: Québec!! 
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Re: Quebec student strike [Re: zappaisgod]
#16910313 - 09/25/12 08:22 PM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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Even if Zappa is one hell of a kind...
Tuition hike cancelled
Im happy to know that we won 
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Aaah fresh meat
Totus tuus Jack
"Life is an autonomous system with open-ended evolution capacity”
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Gilgamesh18
Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 3,836
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Re: Quebec student strike [Re: Amphibolos]
#16910551 - 09/25/12 09:00 PM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Quebec student strike [Re: Amphibolos]
#16910575 - 09/25/12 09:05 PM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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Now you can use those tax dollars to get a step ahead of your peers and go make so money! But not too much money. Juuuust right.
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Gilgamesh18
Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 3,836
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Re: Quebec student strike [Re: DieCommie]
#16910586 - 09/25/12 09:07 PM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Now you can use those tax dollars to get a step ahead of your peers and go make so money! But not too much money. Juuuust right.
Excesses will be returned to the people.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Just one more raise, then Ill have enough to start returning. Just one more raise, then Ill have all I need. 
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Gilgamesh18
Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 3,836
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Re: Quebec student strike [Re: DieCommie]
#16910629 - 09/25/12 09:14 PM (7 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Just one more raise, then Ill have enough to start returning. Just one more raise, then Ill have all I need.
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ScavengerType
Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 5,755
Loc: The North
Last seen: 8 days, 12 hours
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I have to be honest I thought about coming back to this site and after reading the ridiculous bullshit people have posted here I have resolutely decided not to. Frankly I am appalled by the level of discourse not just in this thread but the others I glanced at in this forum. I kinda feel like a fucking looser for ever debating some of the persons inhabiting this forum instead of finding anything better to do. It can't just be me, The conversation can't have always been this dumbed down.
However, since this issue is near and dear to my heart as someone who was priced out of a post-secondary education in a province, I will provide an update:
1) The students won earlier this year as the Charet government in Quebec was ousted. The new administration reversed his policies and the leaders of the student movement have spent the summer and fall travelling to other cities nation wide trying to help other students inspired by their success.
2) This year under pressure from the Canada-wide solidarity protests the government in PEI decided to grant amnesty on interest for student loans dating back to 2001 and abolish it in the future.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/story/2012/08/03/pei-zero-student-loan-interest.html
3) Students pay more than the cost of their education in increased taxes afterwards. This is best summized in this study:
http://www.policyalternatives.ca/newsroom/news-releases/bc-university-students-already-pay-full-cost-their-degrees-tuition-reductions
However, I heard a Quebec student organizer quote that for every one dollar the Quebec government puts into education they receive 10 in revenue (likely includes feedback effects of higher incomes).
4) In Quebec because of their low tuition rate a high amount of first generation immigrants are able to attend post secondary school. These are numbers seen nowhere else in canada because high post secondary education costs discriminate against immigrants and the poor.
-
As to the misinformed comments that exist in this thread, I've even unblocked people so I can read everything. Frankly, I don't even know what to say, some of them are so intellectually lazy it is mystifying to me that nobody has corrected them and further mystifying that these intellectual atrocities have been committed in the first place. People demanding that statistical apples be oranges, refusing to read past page one in an econ text (on both sides of the debate none the less) and the ever prescient magical thinking of free market voodoo (obviously without even a rational model for why their nonsense is correct, never-mind statistics). Reminds me of a docu I seen...
Edited by ScavengerType (10/06/12 08:00 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,868
Loc: underbelly
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I have resolutely decided not to.
What? Is this your puppet posting?
Thanks for telling us the extent of your angst . 
This just seems pretty funny.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,300
Last seen: 15 hours, 5 minutes
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Quote:
ScavengerType said:
I have to be honest I thought about coming back to this site and after reading the ridiculous bullshit people have posted here I have resolutely decided not to. Frankly I am appalled by the level of discourse not just in this thread but the others I glanced at in this forum. I kinda feel like a fucking looser for ever debating some of the persons inhabiting this forum instead of finding anything better to do. It can't just be me, The conversation can't have always been this dumbed down.
However, since this issue is near and dear to my heart as someone who was priced out of a post-secondary education in a province, I will provide an update:
1) The students won earlier this year as the Charet government in Quebec was ousted. The new administration reversed his policies and the leaders of the student movement have spent the summer and fall travelling to other cities nation wide trying to help other students inspired by their success.
2) This year under pressure from the Canada-wide solidarity protests the government in PEI decided to grant amnesty on interest for student loans dating back to 2001 and abolish it in the future.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/story/2012/08/03/pei-zero-student-loan-interest.html
3) Students pay more than the cost of their education in increased taxes afterwards. This is best summized in this study:
http://www.policyalternatives.ca/newsroom/news-releases/bc-university-students-already-pay-full-cost-their-degrees-tuition-reductions
However, I heard a Quebec student organizer quote that for every one dollar the Quebec government puts into education they receive 10 in revenue (likely includes feedback effects of higher incomes).
4) In Quebec because of their low tuition rate a high amount of first generation immigrants are able to attend post secondary school. These are numbers seen nowhere else in canada because high post secondary education costs discriminate against immigrants and the poor.
-
As to the misinformed comments that exist in this thread, I've even unblocked people so I can read everything. Frankly, I don't even know what to say, some of them are so intellectually lazy it is mystifying to me that nobody has corrected them and further mystifying that these intellectual atrocities have been committed in the first place. People demanding that statistical apples be oranges, refusing to read past page one in an econ text (on both sides of the debate none the less) and the ever prescient magical thinking of free market voodoo (obviously without even a rational model for why their nonsense is correct, never-mind statistics). Reminds me of a docu I seen...
From your link that asserts that revenue benefits from taxes exceed the cost of an education.
Quote:
“It is important to note that while those with post-secondary degrees and certificates earn more on average, some individuals with higher education earn less than the average high school graduate,” cautions Ivanova. “A progressive income tax system is sensitive to these individual differences and will ensure that the cost is pooled over all graduates.”
I support subsidizing hard scientists' education. Nobody else. Nobody. But not because they will pay for it in the tax till, which is absurd. If the government put money in the stock market over forty years it would recover far more revenue than higher education.
Most of the people in college do not belong there and it is a waste of time, money and effort.
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ScavengerType
Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 5,755
Loc: The North
Last seen: 8 days, 12 hours
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Re: Quebec student strike [Re: zappaisgod]
#16981375 - 10/07/12 01:22 AM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Do you also support just flushing cash down the toilet or burning it? I'm just wondering, as I can't actually tell, all I can tell for sure is that it would basically kill you to let anyone who's not in the already privileged class use it for anything (even if on average they will more than pay it back). Free education pays for itself, If you want the twats in your stupid country to be smarter, you might have to pay/advocate for it instead of pissing and moaning on some obscure internet forum. But, obviously your just complaining, far be it from you to take some personal responsibility to try to fix the fucking problems that you feel the need to point out in the world or shut the fuck up. Might as well just slag off other people who are, right?
I'm not disagreeing with you in entirety here. In canada at least Bio/Chem/Eng/Forestry courses I looked at were the most expensive. I did some college schooling in a rural town where I grew up and though I wanted to take Chem/Bio courses they cost quite a bit more than social science courses (econ/history). In Quebec, the difference would have been so minute as to not guide my decision, however in the province with the highest tuition the gap was much wider. If you think there is a deficit of Americans fascinated by the science and engineering feats of the country's past and current popular science media (in general not specifically the magazine) I believe you are sorely mistaken. The lack of affordability of education is what keeps people out. If you don't like that rich morons can go to private schools, get rid of them. The public schools would do much better to absorb the qualified teachers. However, if you don't bother to advocate for what you say you want, don't come crying to me when your country undevelops. I'll probibly already be busy babysitting the unskilled illegal immigrants your country neglected to educate/train.
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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
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Amphibolos
Duc de la complexité
Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 270
Loc: Québec!!
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Re: Quebec student strike [Re: zappaisgod]
#16982194 - 10/07/12 07:24 AM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
If the government put money in the stock market over forty years it would recover far more revenue than higher education.
The GOVERNMENT will get revenue and hence profit of having the money invested in stock. However, the whole SOCIETY will profit of having an educated population, especially since we are a society based on services.
Like we said during the strike
Un peuple, instruit, jamais ne sera vaincu
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Aaah fresh meat
Totus tuus Jack
"Life is an autonomous system with open-ended evolution capacity”
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,394
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 7 days
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Re: Quebec student strike [Re: Amphibolos]
#16982226 - 10/07/12 07:42 AM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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> However, the whole SOCIETY will profit of having an educated population,
Not necessarily. There is no reason why flipping burgers at McDonalds should require a college degree. By creating the perception that a college degree is mandatory to succeed in life, society is actually hurt rather than helped. Due to supply and demand, the cost of college has gone up. I also fail to see how somebody coming out of college with a $120,000 debt and a bachelors degree in medieval English is a benefit to society.
Society is much better off if people gravitate towards an appropriate education. Embrace trades school and apprenticeships rather than demanding a college education if you want to benefit society. Leave higher education for those that will benefit from it rather than demanding it of everybody.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,300
Last seen: 15 hours, 5 minutes
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Re: Quebec student strike [Re: Amphibolos]
#16982639 - 10/07/12 10:46 AM (7 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Amphibolos said:
Quote:
If the government put money in the stock market over forty years it would recover far more revenue than higher education.
The GOVERNMENT will get revenue and hence profit of having the money invested in stock. However, the whole SOCIETY will profit of having an educated population, especially since we are a society based on services.
Like we said during the strike
Un peuple, instruit, jamais ne sera vaincu
I do not see any benefit to society from the education that is being pursued by most university students.
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Heffy
BrauMeister
Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 2,754
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 18 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: Quebec student strike [Re: Amphibolos]
#16999385 - 10/09/12 06:36 PM (7 months, 8 days ago) |
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The Quebec students are way out of line. The vast majority of their tuition is paid for by the other provinces, and the increase they were facing was miniscule compared to the rising tuition costs that everyone else everywhere is facing. Why exactly do you deserve to be sheltered from the reality of increasing education costs, while everyone else pays to help keep your tuition artificially low?
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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,849
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Quebec student strike [Re: Heffy]
#16999412 - 10/09/12 06:40 PM (7 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Heffy said:
Why exactly do you deserve to be sheltered from the reality of increasing education costs, while everyone else pays to help keep your tuition artificially low?
OOOHHHH! I know this one!!!
It's because they're "special".
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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Gilgamesh18
Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 3,836
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This reminds me of the selfish spoiled greeks who can't accept that they might have to retire later god the injustice.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,300
Last seen: 15 hours, 5 minutes
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Small bus kids didn't use to get admitted to college. I'm glad my degree isn't from there.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,849
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Quebec student strike [Re: zappaisgod]
#16999508 - 10/09/12 06:53 PM (7 months, 8 days ago) |
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What? You're not currently trying for a degree in "midget women' contributions to history"?
Or "books with titles that start with the letter X"?
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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