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 WScott
⍾ (´▽｀) ⍾
Registered: 07/31/05
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 Making yourself meditate 
#16276234 - 05/24/12 01:21 AM (1 year, 15 hours ago) |
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a bit like trying to steady a renegade horse, or is that already too much dualism
forcing an action upon yourself that through intellect has been decided to be beneficial, as well as memory of past experience.
but i'm too tired
it takes too long to become steady and truly calm
it will be worth it
more dualism!
so, should one only meditate when it comes naturally or, based on reason, should one exact upon themselves the practice of sitting still.
but
is the phenomenon of action influenced by mental decision not natural?
is meditation to be something one should do, wants to do, has to do?
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 zZZz
R.I.P. woodruss67 *
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 6,174
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 Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: WScott]
#16276323 - 05/24/12 01:40 AM (1 year, 14 hours ago) |
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imo meditation is something someone with an uneasy mind could do to help him or her steady their mind and also understand the problem that causes the mind to be uneasy. i think at first one should learn to calm the mind, but if one was to go further to the source of the problem then one should observe how this mind behaves. being able reach a calm state alone is not enough imo, in the end it is understanding that will set us free.
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Jesus Is Love
 "The best quote of all time"
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Freedom
Will swim for food
Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,024
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Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: WScott]
#16276345 - 05/24/12 01:45 AM (1 year, 14 hours ago) |
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its a kind of letting go, but not the kind where it runs around like a wild horse.
I was doing meditation for a while with mild success then had some spontaneous experiences where a world without thought just popped out like those magic eye things. didn't think much of it but about a year later I realized I could let the magic eye thing happen any time. For some reason I can just let my mind settle now. there are some thoughts but not many when I do it.
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Rev. Morton
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 6,711
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Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: WScott]
#16276353 - 05/24/12 01:46 AM (1 year, 14 hours ago) |
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The most important thing is to discover the most important thing to you. Do you want a peaceful mind and a pleasant life? Or do you want to know the true nature of your being?
They are two different things and require different practices. In either case, the trick is finding the fun in it. I never meditated much until I started hiking a lot, it happens on it's own.
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nicechrisman
Cactuar
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Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: WScott]
#16276425 - 05/24/12 02:04 AM (1 year, 14 hours ago) |
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Quote:
WScott said:
a bit like trying to steady a renegade horse, or is that already too much dualism
forcing an action upon yourself that through intellect has been decided to be beneficial, as well as memory of past experience.
but i'm too tired
it takes too long to become steady and truly calm
it will be worth it
more dualism!
so, should one only meditate when it comes naturally or, based on reason, should one exact upon themselves the practice of sitting still.
but
is the phenomenon of action influenced by mental decision not natural?
is meditation to be something one should do, wants to do, has to do?
I've been forcing myself to get up at 6am every weekday so I can go to the zen center for morning meditation. I have definitely found good results, even though I'm not always so stoked about it when the alarm goes off.
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nicechrisman
Cactuar
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I would recommend the book "Turning the mind into an ally" by Sakyong Mipham to anyone who experiences difficulty in establishing a meditation practice. Those Tibetans have been dealing with, studying, and observing the difficulties of meditation in a very systematic way for a very LONG time. This book really turned my practice around when I happened to buy it from a friend when he was selling off all his stuff before a big move.
In the end, either you sit or you don't. All this logical rationalization of yours about this situation really has very little to do with anything IMO.
Edited by nicechrisman (05/24/12 02:12 AM)
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 Grapefruit
Oblivious Fool
Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: WScott]
#16276446 - 05/24/12 02:10 AM (1 year, 14 hours ago) |
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If you meditate while lying down it makes it way easier, it takes me about an hour of eyes open & body completely still to make sure I won't fall asleep and after that it's plain sailing.
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I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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nicechrisman
Cactuar
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Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: Grapefruit]
#16276451 - 05/24/12 02:14 AM (1 year, 14 hours ago) |
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I find laying meditation and sitting meditation to have very different qualities. I prefer sitting myself. This is also what most spiritual traditions who practice meditation do. Something to do with posture and energy flows I think.
That said, I think it's great to recognize what works for you and use it to your best advantage. I'm just not always sure if "easy" is what I am looking for. To me, meditation is as much a practice in patience as anything else. Make it too easy and what do you need to exercise patience for? It's like weightlifting with no weight on the bars.
Edited by nicechrisman (05/24/12 02:16 AM)
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cbub
it
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Maybe when we get bored of doing what is left, we'll do what is right.
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SweetLeafSamadhi
Incomprehensible Rambling
Registered: 03/27/12
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Loc: None.
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Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: WScott]
#16279199 - 05/24/12 06:23 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Practice meditation twice daily to increase the ease of my ability to fall into more natural meditation spontaneously.
Health concerns were a lot of motivation to push myself, though...
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"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Rev. Morton
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 6,711
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Again, we should really try to define what meditation is and what it is for. Energy, health, peace, and bliss have nothing to do with seeing what is.
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zZZz
R.I.P. woodruss67 *
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 6,174
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Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: Rev. Morton]
#16280043 - 05/24/12 09:29 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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meditation is finding out more about yourself, to find yourself. straight up.
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Jesus Is Love
"The best quote of all time"
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SweetLeafSamadhi
Incomprehensible Rambling
Registered: 03/27/12
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Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: Rev. Morton]
#16280527 - 05/24/12 10:43 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Middle said:
Again, we should really try to define what meditation is and what it is for. Energy, health, peace, and bliss have nothing to do with seeing what is.
Not entirely certain about holding full agreement about them having "nothing to do with" it.
In my case, meditation was something that came into my life before use of psychedelics; hearing conceptions that it was associated with "enlightenment" was not compelling in its pursuit. The sentiment was largely that whatever figures like the Buddha had realized could be attained just as easily without meditation.
Later interaction with psychedelics began to reveal insights into the nature of the mind; however, viewing those as a more meaningful catalyst for consciousness, the concept of meditation got cast aside.
Eventually issues of depression and anxiety lead to a bit of a nervous breakdown.
In piecing my life back together, sitting in meditation suddenly became something of appeal for reaching a more balanced and peaceful state of mind. It was at this point that meditation was very much a forced activity.
Meditation did prove to have a great deal of impact on my mental health and well-being.
Continued practice has lead to increased awareness; currently the extent of practice is sitting half-lotus, observing the breath and bringing my awareness into the present moment.
The "intent," now that my issues with anxiety have drastically lessened, is to cultivate awareness, to let go of my struggles to maintain a sense of control over things and reach some level of comprehension of the nature of reality and who/what I am.
Sure none of this is "seeing what is."
I'm not enlightened or highly realized, though; and who is to say what extent of "purpose" meditation may serve in another five or ten years of living. Just being aware of my path as it is while walking it.
The OP presented the issue that forcing meditation as a means of reaching non-duality is an issue of dualistic thinking.
In my personal experience, meditation began through motivation of health rather than seeking freedom from dualism. Maybe it's overly dualistic of me to delineate between mental health and my own spiritual wanderings...but meditation as means of attaining liberation and reaching an absolute non-dual state of consciousness was a pursuit that arose into my life without force and with little striving.
If totally missing the point or reasoning behind your posts, or totally reading them wrong, please excuse my ignorance. 
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"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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blankk
on the road
Registered: 11/04/11
Posts: 2,701
Loc: off the wall
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Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: WScott]
#16281231 - 05/25/12 12:33 AM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
WScott said:
is meditation to be something one should do, wants to do, has to do?
for me it is all those things. sitting every single day takes discipline and cultivates a sense of self discipline that is helpful in my life. some days it comes naturally, isn't a struggle and it's something I genuinely want to do because of how great it makes me feel and the clarity of mind it provides. some days it's something I should do because I need to keep myself disciplined. some days it has to be done because that voice in the back of my mind tells me it's uberly importante and rewarding.
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g00ru
the kava crow
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Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: WScott]
#16281449 - 05/25/12 01:20 AM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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yo, get militant as fuck about it! meditate under any mindset and for any reason. You don't have to want to, it's worth it to do it. You can totally take the same attitude as going for a run, i mean it's not all peaches and cream
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zZZz
R.I.P. woodruss67 *
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 6,174
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Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: g00ru]
#16281595 - 05/25/12 02:01 AM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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peaches and cream..ta ta ta dada, ta ta tadada....song is in my head now.
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Jesus Is Love
"The best quote of all time"
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usulpsychonaut
Hungry Ghost
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Posts: 1,573
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Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: zZZz]
#16281670 - 05/25/12 02:20 AM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Making yourself meditate? Could be rape, I don't recommend it.
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In every winter there's a different cold
in every winter I feel so old
so very old as the night
so very old as the dreadful cold
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,003
Loc: 
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Re: Making yourself meditate [Re: WScott]
#16282043 - 05/25/12 05:48 AM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
WScott said:
or is that already too much dualism
yes, anything you try to do is already overkill, not meditation as i would define it
your obviously already familiar with 'non-dual contemplation' so stick to it i'd recommend
anything you do, anything you think, any effort, arises in what you are so can not lead to what you are
bare the furnace of looking like this, its worth it!
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