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 zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,313
Last seen: 4 hours, 1 minute
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 Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.?  [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#16267995 - 05/22/12 03:58 PM (1 year, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
psilynut said:
I think all the poor GOP honky peckerwood states should secede and stop living off the more successful democratic states tits.
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2010/03/24/who-will-default-first-greece-or-california/
I really don't know what you were trying to show with that link. It argues that Greece is a lot worse off than California. How does that relate to the point that GOP states should stop living off the tit of the successful democratic states?
Your second post is nothing more than someone's opinion (fantasy) that California will default on it's debt. It's the usual conservative bullshit about how California should stop picking on business and rich people, and be less generous with everyone else. Governor Brown is being very agressive about reducing the deficit, and I'm not interested in debating people's fantasies. Let's go back to real numbers and how GOP states need to stop living off the tit of successful democratic states.
Here is a table from The Tax Foundation showing Federal spending in each state per dollar of Federal taxes.
As you can clearly see, 19 of the first 25 states which take in more Federal taxes than they pay out are conservative states. And 3 of the 6 Democrat states actually voted for W. Bush (New Mexico, Virginia, and Iowa) last time, so they're not truly "Democrat". On the other hand, 17 of the 18 states that pay out more Federal taxes than they collect (including California) are Democrat states. The one that isn't (Texas), barely made the list.
I have no problem with diminishing the role of the federal government in states' issues. No money and no mandates. That has nothing to do with the fact that the states that are the most broke are the SSRs CA, NY, NJ, IL. Do you know what would be good for NY? If the state split in two.
Greece is worse than California. That doesn't mean California isn't fuxxored. By the way, this is not an opinion:
"Its pension costs for public employees, 85% of them unionized, rose 2,000% in the first decade of this century, which is 1,976% more than revenues increased"
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,878
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: zappaisgod]
#16268018 - 05/22/12 04:02 PM (1 year, 1 day ago) |
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Oregon will have to invade California and straighten them out before they can be part of our great nation. General Icelander will lead the troops to a glorious victory for the fatherland.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,313
Last seen: 4 hours, 1 minute
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: Icelander]
#16268258 - 05/22/12 04:54 PM (1 year, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Oregon will have to invade California and straighten them out before they can be part of our great nation. General Icelander will lead the troops to a glorious victory for the fatherland.
You sure? You know what happens to a dog who eats a dry meat flavored sponge?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,878
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: zappaisgod]
#16268514 - 05/22/12 05:40 PM (1 year, 1 day ago) |
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I will TERMINAT(OR.) them. 
Genghis Ice has spoken
I plan on having the Smith River and the Redwoods for my private fishing grounds.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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psilynut
aka Patchraper
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 456
Last seen: 1 hour, 25 minutes
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: Icelander]
#16270670 - 05/23/12 12:48 AM (1 year, 21 hours ago) |
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Good luck invading Oakland dude...
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 1,867
Last seen: 2 days, 19 hours
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: psilynut]
#16271417 - 05/23/12 04:11 AM (1 year, 18 hours ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I have no problem with diminishing the role of the federal government in states' issues. No money and no mandates. That has nothing to do with the fact that the states that are the most broke are the SSRs CA, NY, NJ, IL.
Seriously zappa? Seriously?
First of all, those states have the most total debt because they're amongst the biggest states in the country.
Secondly, you left out the state with the 3rd most debt: Texas. Intentional?
Third, the states with the most total debt has nothing to do with GOP states sucking the tit of the more successful Democrat states.
But since we've established that GOP states suck the tit of more successful Democrat states, lets talk about debt:
Clearly total debt is a stupid measure, because larger states can take on more debt. Debt per capita would be a much better measure, but that doesn't factor in either state revenue or state economic output of private industry. If you look at Total State Debt as a percentage of Gross State Product for Private Industries, you'll see that liberal states are no worse off than conservative states; half the 13 states with over 40% debt to GSP ratio are conservative, and California isn't even one of them.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
By the way, this is not an opinion:
"Its pension costs for public employees, 85% of them unionized, rose 2,000% in the first decade of this century, which is 1,976% more than revenues increased"
I agree, there's a lot wrong with the California pension system. But look up Jerry Brown's 12 point proposal for pension reform. We'll fix the problems left behind by the Republican Governor, unless the party of "no" stops reform.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
 
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,313
Last seen: 4 hours, 1 minute
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#16272426 - 05/23/12 12:15 PM (1 year, 10 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I have no problem with diminishing the role of the federal government in states' issues. No money and no mandates. That has nothing to do with the fact that the states that are the most broke are the SSRs CA, NY, NJ, IL.
Seriously zappa? Seriously?
First of all, those states have the most total debt because they're amongst the biggest states in the country.
Secondly, you left out the state with the 3rd most debt: Texas. Intentional?
The post I cited was "debt as a percentage of GDP". Where is Texas on that list?Quote:
Third, the states with the most total debt has nothing to do with GOP states sucking the tit of the more successful Democrat states.
I agree. Now let's get rid of all the federal mandates. Then we can talk.Quote:
But since we've established that GOP states suck the tit of more successful Democrat states, lets talk about debt:
Clearly total debt is a stupid measure, because larger states can take on more debt. Debt per capita would be a much better measure, but that doesn't factor in either state revenue or state economic output of private industry. If you look at Total State Debt as a percentage of Gross State Product for Private Industries, you'll see that liberal states are no worse off than conservative states; half the 13 states with over 40% debt to GSP ratio are conservative, and California isn't even one of them.
Keep moving those goalposts. I've never heard of GSPPI. Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
By the way, this is not an opinion:
"Its pension costs for public employees, 85% of them unionized, rose 2,000% in the first decade of this century, which is 1,976% more than revenues increased"
I agree, there's a lot wrong with the California pension system. But look up Jerry Brown's 12 point proposal for pension reform. We'll fix the problems left behind by the Republican Governor, unless the party of "no" stops reform.
The Republican governor, Shwarzenneger, was no conservative. Say, what was the makeup of the legislature?
California, as well as NY should each be split into two states
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 1,867
Last seen: 2 days, 19 hours
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: zappaisgod]
#16273130 - 05/23/12 03:28 PM (1 year, 7 hours ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
The post I cited was "debt as a percentage of GDP". Where is Texas on that list?
No, it wasn't. It was "states with the largest budget holes". None of those states (except New Jersey) have the highest debt as a percentage of GDP.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Keep moving those goalposts. I've never heard of GSPPI.
First of all, I never set the goalposts - you did. You set it at total debt, which is stupid because it doesn't factor in population or GSP.
Second of all GSP is exactly the same thing as GDP (a term you yourself used), except the "S" stands for "State" (domestic isn't the right term for state)
Third of all, you can set whatever goalpost you want, as long as it's not total debt which was stupid for the reasons just described.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
California, as well as NY should each be split into two states
The US should be slit in two countries. What relevance does that have to which states have the most debt as a percentage of GSP (GDP)?
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,313
Last seen: 4 hours, 1 minute
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#16273184 - 05/23/12 03:47 PM (1 year, 6 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
The post I cited was "debt as a percentage of GDP". Where is Texas on that list?
No, it wasn't. It was "states with the largest budget holes". None of those states (except New Jersey) have the highest debt as a percentage of GDP.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Keep moving those goalposts. I've never heard of GSPPI.
First of all, I never set the goalposts - you did. You set it at total debt, which is stupid because it doesn't factor in population or GSP.
Second of all GSP is exactly the same thing as GDP (a term you yourself used), except the "S" stands for "State" (domestic isn't the right term for state)
Third of all, you can set whatever goalpost you want, as long as it's not total debt which was stupid for the reasons just described.
You cited gross state product for private industries. Why did you ignore the other graph, debt per capita?
Best: NE TN IN FL ID (generally conservative)
Worst: AK NJ CT HA IL (generally commie except for AK)Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
California, as well as NY should each be split into two states
The US should be slit in two countries. What relevance does that have to which states have the most debt as a percentage of GSP (GDP)?
None. It was an aside relevant to California specifically, and NY tangentially, about how they are incredibly disparate within their borders.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 1,867
Last seen: 2 days, 19 hours
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: zappaisgod]
#16275637 - 05/23/12 11:44 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
You cited gross state product for private industries. Why did you ignore the other graph, debt per capita?
Best: NE TN IN FL ID (generally conservative)
Worst: AK NJ CT HA IL (generally commie except for AK)
While debt per capita is a lot better than just debt, it still doesn't tell the whole story.
If one state takes in more money than another per capita and has the same debt, the state that makes more money is better off. So debt per GSP is even better than just debt per capita. I thought you'd appreciate a graph that exluded Government generated GSP (hence private industries), but if you want to include Government GSP that's just fine with me, as that will make the liberal states look better still.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
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SlashOZ
:D
Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,546
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
#16276070 - 05/24/12 12:54 AM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Yeah, I had thought about that region, short-term & possibly long-term. I would like to go to school (for my M.S.) in PNW, but geography is secondary is specific opportunity & professor of course. Vancouver might also be nice (either short-term or long-term) bc it’s in that region w/mild climate year round, but also it’s Canada. They spend a more reasonable 1.5-2% of GDP on military (compared to 6-6.5% in U.S.). Although I’ve read it’s going in the wrong direction up there over the past decade (and the military-industrial complex is gaining in influence affecting their military budget & purchasing decisions), it’s still definitely better than here in the U.S. I would also imagine that a much smaller segment is the population of Canada is hyper-militaristic & extreme nationalist… as is the case in the rest of the developed world, sans the one country where religious conservatism/fundamentalism is still quite strong (what a total coincidence I’m sure).
Do it. There are several excellent universities in the area and lots of geology related fields to go into up here. Cascadia ftw!
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"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,313
Last seen: 4 hours, 1 minute
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#16277251 - 05/24/12 09:29 AM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
You cited gross state product for private industries. Why did you ignore the other graph, debt per capita?
Best: NE TN IN FL ID (generally conservative)
Worst: AK NJ CT HA IL (generally commie except for AK)
While debt per capita is a lot better than just debt, it still doesn't tell the whole story.
No one graph will ever tell the whole story. Some graphs tell more than others, though.Quote:
If one state takes in more money than another per capita and has the same debt, the state that makes more money is better off. So debt per GSP is even better than just debt per capita. I thought you'd appreciate a graph that exluded Government generated GSP (hence private industries), but if you want to include Government GSP that's just fine with me, as that will make the liberal states look better still.
No, it will make them look worse. Like California's pension obligations. Government. Debt.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 1,867
Last seen: 2 days, 19 hours
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: zappaisgod]
#16277713 - 05/24/12 12:06 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
No one graph will ever tell the whole story. Some graphs tell more than others, though.
Show whatever data you have that says liberal states are in worst shape than conservative states, or accept the data that is presented.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If one state takes in more money than another per capita and has the same debt, the state that makes more money is better off. So debt per GSP is even better than just debt per capita. I thought you'd appreciate a graph that exluded Government generated GSP (hence private industries), but if you want to include Government GSP that's just fine with me, as that will make the liberal states look better still.
No, it will make them look worse. Like California's pension obligations. Government. Debt.
Fine, here's a graph that includes pension obligations:
California and New York are in nowhere near as bad shape relative to conservative states as you'd like others to believe. Post data that either supports your point, or stfu.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,881
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#16277745 - 05/24/12 12:12 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Got a chart that isn't 2 years old?
Here's the link to your chart.
How about providing one next time?
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,313
Last seen: 4 hours, 1 minute
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#16277958 - 05/24/12 12:48 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
No one graph will ever tell the whole story. Some graphs tell more than others, though.
Show whatever data you have that says liberal states are in worst shape than conservative states, or accept the data that is presented.
I already did.Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If one state takes in more money than another per capita and has the same debt, the state that makes more money is better off. So debt per GSP is even better than just debt per capita. I thought you'd appreciate a graph that exluded Government generated GSP (hence private industries), but if you want to include Government GSP that's just fine with me, as that will make the liberal states look better still.
No, it will make them look worse. Like California's pension obligations. Government. Debt.
Fine, here's a graph that includes pension obligations:
California and New York are in nowhere near as bad shape relative to conservative states as you'd like others to believe. Post data that either supports your point, or stfu.
You mean conservative states like Rhode Island 2, Illinois 6, NJ 7, Hawaii 9, Maine 11, Connecticut 14, Mass 16, NY 18, CA 23? I might throw in LA, too.
Just what do you consider a conservative state? New Mexico and Ohio?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 1,867
Last seen: 2 days, 19 hours
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: zappaisgod]
#16278612 - 05/24/12 03:42 PM (11 months, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Show whatever data you have that says liberal states are in worst shape than conservative states, or accept the data that is presented.
I already did.
So you think debt per captita is a better indicator of debt risk than debt as a percentage of GSP? Then you must think that income doesn't matter; that if a bank loans $50,000 to a rich person, they should also loan it to a poor person because the risk is the same. I know you actually don't think that, but you're getting desparate to save another lost argument. Stay down, and live to see another discussion.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Fine, here's a graph that includes pension obligations:
California and New York are in nowhere near as bad shape relative to conservative states as you'd like others to believe. Post data that either supports your point, or stfu.
You mean conservative states like Rhode Island 2, Illinois 6, NJ 7, Hawaii 9, Maine 11, Connecticut 14, Mass 16, NY 18, CA 23? I might throw in LA, too.
Just what do you consider a conservative state? New Mexico and Ohio?
Yes, those are liberal states (except LA), and my point was that you were wrong to claim liberal states were in worse shape in terms of debt.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,313
Last seen: 4 hours, 1 minute
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#16282478 - 05/25/12 10:23 AM (11 months, 22 days ago) |
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Nope. See California. They are fucked.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 1,867
Last seen: 2 days, 19 hours
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: zappaisgod]
#16286418 - 05/26/12 03:25 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Nope. See California. They are fucked.
What data are you looking at?
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,313
Last seen: 4 hours, 1 minute
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#16287454 - 05/26/12 01:44 PM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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The one I posted previously that mentions a $16B deficit.
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snoot
look alive ∞
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 8,866
Loc: 45º parallel 
Last seen: 55 minutes, 54 seconds
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Re: Status of “succession” movement(s) anywhere in the U.S.? [Re: zappaisgod]
#16289180 - 05/26/12 08:58 PM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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That is only one state.
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∞
I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -
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