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EntheogenicPeace said:

P.S. You missed a 'c' in the latter term.

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  That was on purpose to make you feel better, I swear





I went to the first local tea party rally on tax day a few years ago.  After that I lost interest pretty quick.  It was just the same politicians saying the same crap, slightly modified to appeal to the mood of the day.
Some of the tea party people might be your best shot at finding non-racist secessionists.  Tea party is already kind of dying out around here though.

I don't think you'll find many secessionists that aren't assciated with right wing militia type nonsense or white nationalism.

I know a few 'white national' type people.  They're just fucking nuts.  Incredibly stupid people following a few brilliant people who are absolutely fucking nuts.  They're the only ones I think will ever go far enough to try to start their own country.



I don't think progressives will ever try to break away.  The goal of a progressive is to change the country they're already in.

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Bartering occurs when you exchange goods or services without exchanging money. An example of bartering is a plumber doing repair work for a dentist in exchange for dental services. You must include in gross income in the year of receipt the fair market value of goods and services received in exchange for goods or services you provide.

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After bartering groups exploded in popularity in the 1970s, the IRS formalized its rules on taxing bartered income [source: Risen]. Now, the IRS taxes barter transactions in dollars and cents, even though no money changes hands. This means you have to keep tabs on the trades you make and keep good records of them so they can be properly taxed. The IRS measures bartered exchanges by using the market price of the goods or services someone receives. In a swap, both parties have to list the market value of what they received as taxable income. This means that commercial and corporate bartering exchanges require filing a tax form -- a 1099-B, "Proceeds from Broker and Barter Exchange Transactions" [source: IRS].

http://money.howstuffworks.com/bartering4.htm

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EntheogenicPeace said:
Interesting. That was kind of one of the areas I had in mind where such a movement might exist. If it ever gained some real autonomy from D.C. & Wall Street, I would definitely be interested in moving there as I think I would like the region in general (both from reading about things, as well as hearing things from a couple of friends I have that are from out there).

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psilynut said:
I think all the poor GOP honky peckerwood states should secede and stop living off the more successful democratic states tits.

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You ain't kidding.  Here's a few maps from when Obama got elected.  Notice any similarities between the two???

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psilynut said:
I think all the poor GOP honky peckerwood states should secede and stop living off the more successful democratic states tits.

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None of the deficits in the states with the largest budget holes–New York, Illinois, New Jersey and California–exceeded 3% of the state’s GDP in 2008-2009. Most of the countries in the PIIGS group had deficits that exceeded 6% of GDP.

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In California, efforts to close the budget deficit by taxing the rich resulted in the deficit shrinking from $9 billion all the way to $16 billion. Gov. Jerry Brown’s proposed solution: Tax the rich even more (and tax everybody else, too, by hiking sales tax).

California contains about one-third of the nation’s welfare recipients (despite having 12% of the nation’s population) and is planning a high-speed rail system that will cost an estimated $68 billion, including $4 billion on a section The Los Angeles Times dubbed a “train to nowhere.” Its pension costs for public employees, 85% of them unionized, rose 2,000% in the first decade of this century, which is 1,976% more than revenues increased. A CEO survey in April ruled that California was the least business-friendly state in the US.

In 1999, when the state was flooded with dotcom tax revenue, it set in place a law, SB 400, that assumed the good times would continue forever and allowed government workers as young as 50 to retire on 90% of salary they earned in their final year, when they would ramp up the overtime. In order to cover these commitments through the CALPERS investment fund, the Dow Jones Industrial Average would have to be over 25,000 by now.

Pension and health-care spending for retirees are set to triple this decade. More than 12,000 state and local workers are collecting more than $100,000 a year in pensions. Even convicted felons can collect pensions.

Greek and Californian politicians made the same mistake: They wanted union backing so badly that they promised far more than they could ever deliver. They knew that they’d be long gone before the crisis kicked in, or maybe it would solve itself. Either way, they didn’t care. They were happy to use tomorrow’s seed corn to buy themselves power. California’s pension plans face a $500 billion hole in unfunded promises.

Gov. Brown says he wants to reform the cost structure of California by raising the retirement age and making other adjustments in a 12-point plan that looks much like pouring a glass of water on a forest fire. He won’t be able to get it through his union-bought Democratic legislature anyway. And courts have ruled that pension plans can’t be changed retroactively for current workers or retirees.

There are only so many Mark Zuckerbergs to tax (and Zuck’s old roommate Eduardo Saverin renounced his US citizenship and moved to low-tax Singapore. He saved himself at least $67 million in capital gains taxes by so doing.) California could default on its bonds, but then how would it borrow again? For a state to declare bankruptcy is unprecedented, and there is no provision for it under federal law anyway.

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Nice job with the unions destroying California along with the auto industry.

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When the boom busted, revenues fell, but Sacramento neither rolled back the tax cuts nor repealed the spending increases. Desperate for revenues, Gov. Gray Davis, a Democrat, in 2003 tripled the vehicle license fee, which generated $4 billion a year by boosting fees by $130 on a typical car. Schwarzenegger, a Republican, swept into office that same year in part by promising to roll back the unpopular increase in the "car tax." He kept his pledge and plunged the state into an even deeper budget crisis.

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Prop. 13 "capped property taxes" and "created a constitutional requirement that all tax increases pass the [state] Legislature by a two-thirds majority," which "made California virtually ungovernable." Cohen and Dreier further explained that the "most important budget problem is the fiscal straitjacket created by Proposition 13, the original tax-revolt ballot proposition that voters approved in 1978, which capped property taxes and made it extremely difficult to raise revenues." They explain that the law "did more than simply limit property taxes. It created a constitutional requirement that all tax increases pass the Legislature by a two-thirds majority," which Cohen and Dreier argue "has made California virtually ungovernable

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still definitely better than here in the U.S. I would also imagine that a much smaller segment is the population of Canada is hyper-militaristic & extreme nationalist… as is the case in the rest of the developed world, sans the one country where religious conservatism/fundamentalism is still quite strong (what a total coincidence I’m sure).

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zappaisgod said:

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psilynut said:
I think all the poor GOP honky peckerwood states should secede and stop living off the more successful democratic states tits.

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http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2010/03/24/who-will-default-first-greece-or-california/

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:

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psilynut said:
I think all the poor GOP honky peckerwood states should secede and stop living off the more successful democratic states tits.

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http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2010/03/24/who-will-default-first-greece-or-california/

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I really don't know what you were trying to show with that link.  It argues that Greece is a lot worse off than California.  How does that relate to the point that GOP states should stop living off the tit of the successful democratic states?

Your second post is nothing more than someone's opinion (fantasy) that California will default on it's debt.  It's the usual conservative bullshit about how California should stop picking on business and rich people, and be less generous with everyone else.  Governor Brown is being very agressive about reducing the deficit, and I'm not interested in debating people's fantasies.  Let's go back to real numbers and how GOP states need to stop living off the tit of successful democratic states.

Here is a table from The Tax Foundation showing Federal spending in each state per dollar of Federal taxes.

As you can clearly see, 19 of the first 25 states which take in more Federal taxes than they pay out are conservative states.  And 3 of the 6 Democrat states actually voted for W. Bush (New Mexico, Virginia, and Iowa) last time, so they're not truly "Democrat".  On the other hand, 17 of the 18 states that pay out more Federal taxes than they collect (including California) are Democrat states.  The one that isn't (Texas), barely made the list.

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Icelander said:
Oregon will have to invade California and straighten them out before they can be part of our great nation.  General Icelander will lead the troops to a glorious victory for the fatherland.

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zappaisgod said:
I have no problem with diminishing the role of the federal government in states' issues.  No money and no mandates.  That has nothing to do with the fact that the states that are the most broke are the SSRs CA, NY, NJ, IL.

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zappaisgod said:
By the way, this is not an opinion:

"Its pension costs for public employees, 85% of them unionized, rose 2,000% in the first decade of this century, which is 1,976% more than revenues increased"

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:
I have no problem with diminishing the role of the federal government in states' issues.  No money and no mandates.  That has nothing to do with the fact that the states that are the most broke are the SSRs CA, NY, NJ, IL.

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Seriously zappa?  Seriously?

First of all, those states have the most total debt because they're amongst the biggest states in the country.

Secondly, you left out the state with the 3rd most debt: Texas.  Intentional?

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zappaisgod said:
By the way, this is not an opinion:

"Its pension costs for public employees, 85% of them unionized, rose 2,000% in the first decade of this century, which is 1,976% more than revenues increased"

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I agree, there's a lot wrong with the California pension system.  But look up Jerry Brown's 12 point proposal for pension reform.  We'll fix the problems left behind by the Republican Governor, unless the party of "no" stops reform.

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zappaisgod said:
The post I cited was "debt as a percentage of GDP".  Where is Texas on that list?

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zappaisgod said:
Keep moving those goalposts.  I've never heard of GSPPI.

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zappaisgod said:
California, as well as NY should each be split into two states

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:
The post I cited was "debt as a percentage of GDP".  Where is Texas on that list?

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No, it wasn't.  It was "states with the largest budget holes".  None of those states (except New Jersey) have the highest debt as a percentage of GDP.

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zappaisgod said:
Keep moving those goalposts.  I've never heard of GSPPI.

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First of all, I never set the goalposts - you did.  You set it at total debt, which is stupid because it doesn't factor in population or GSP.

Second of all GSP is exactly the same thing as GDP (a term you yourself used), except the "S" stands for "State" (domestic isn't the right term for state)

Third of all, you can set whatever goalpost you want, as long as it's not total debt which was stupid for the reasons just described.

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zappaisgod said:
California, as well as NY should each be split into two states

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The US should be slit in two countries.  What relevance does that have to which states have the most debt as a percentage of GSP (GDP)?

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zappaisgod said:
You cited gross state product for private industries.  Why did you ignore the other graph, debt per capita?

Best:  NE TN IN FL ID  (generally conservative)
Worst:  AK NJ CT HA IL  (generally commie except for AK)

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EntheogenicPeace said:
Yeah, I had thought about that region, short-term & possibly long-term. I would like to go to school (for my M.S.) in PNW, but geography is secondary is specific opportunity & professor of course. Vancouver might also be nice (either short-term or long-term) bc it’s in that region w/mild climate year round, but also it’s Canada. They spend a more reasonable 1.5-2% of GDP on military (compared to 6-6.5% in U.S.). Although I’ve read it’s going in the wrong direction up there over the past decade (and the military-industrial complex is gaining in influence affecting their military budget & purchasing decisions), it’s still definitely better than here in the U.S. I would also imagine that a much smaller segment is the population of Canada is hyper-militaristic & extreme nationalist… as is the case in the rest of the developed world, sans the one country where religious conservatism/fundamentalism is still quite strong (what a total coincidence I’m sure).

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:
You cited gross state product for private industries.  Why did you ignore the other graph, debt per capita?

Best:  NE TN IN FL ID  (generally conservative)
Worst:  AK NJ CT HA IL  (generally commie except for AK)

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While debt per capita is a lot better than just debt, it still doesn't tell the whole story.

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zappaisgod said:
No one graph will ever tell the whole story.  Some graphs tell more than others, though.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If one state takes in more money than another per capita and has the same debt, the state that makes more money is better off.  So debt per GSP is even better than just debt per capita.  I thought you'd appreciate a graph that exluded Government generated GSP (hence private industries), but if you want to include Government GSP that's just fine with me, as that will make the liberal states look better still.

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No, it will make them look worse.  Like California's pension obligations.  Government.  Debt.

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Fine, here's a graph that includes pension obligations:



California and New York are in nowhere near as bad shape relative to conservative states as you'd like others to believe.  Post data that either supports your point, or stfu.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:
No one graph will ever tell the whole story.  Some graphs tell more than others, though.

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Show whatever data you have that says liberal states are in worst shape than conservative states, or accept the data that is presented.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If one state takes in more money than another per capita and has the same debt, the state that makes more money is better off.  So debt per GSP is even better than just debt per capita.  I thought you'd appreciate a graph that exluded Government generated GSP (hence private industries), but if you want to include Government GSP that's just fine with me, as that will make the liberal states look better still.

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No, it will make them look worse.  Like California's pension obligations.  Government.  Debt.

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Fine, here's a graph that includes pension obligations:



California and New York are in nowhere near as bad shape relative to conservative states as you'd like others to believe.  Post data that either supports your point, or stfu.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Show whatever data you have that says liberal states are in worst shape than conservative states, or accept the data that is presented.

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I already did.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Fine, here's a graph that includes pension obligations:



California and New York are in nowhere near as bad shape relative to conservative states as you'd like others to believe.  Post data that either supports your point, or stfu.

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You mean conservative states like Rhode Island 2, Illinois 6, NJ 7, Hawaii 9, Maine 11, Connecticut 14, Mass 16,  NY 18, CA 23?  I might throw in LA, too.

Just what do you consider a conservative state?  New Mexico and Ohio?

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zappaisgod said:
Nope.  See California.  They are fucked.

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zappaisgod said:
The one I posted previously that mentions a $16B deficit.

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California is fucked

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psilynut said:

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California is fucked

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    Not completely. We don't have to pay the whole amount of the pension obligations all at once. Pensions are paid slowly over time, it's is possible to fix our problem.

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if only the beach boys were still alive. or are they.

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psilynut said:

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California is fucked

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    Not completely. We don't have to pay the whole amount of the pension obligations all at once. Pensions are paid slowly over time, it's is possible to fix our problem.

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zappaisgod said:
Do you know why it is worse for larger states?  Inertia.  It is much harder to turn a large ship than a small boat.  California is fucked.

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I'm familiar with the concept in physics, but I haven't seen it used in this context before.  Care to explain why it's harder for California to cut 1% from their budget than for a smaller state?  Any studies that support this claim?

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zappaisgod said:
He isn't Obama, who is well on his way to snatching the crown of "worst economic disaster" from FDR.  He has no understanding of economics and I have seen no reason to believe that he gives a shit about anybody but himself.

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zappaisgod said:
FDR:

Soc Sec Ponzi scheme.  His big spending policies prolonged the effects of the depression. 

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zappaisgod said:
I lost my insurance plan when he promised I would get to keep it.  Company after company is dropping health care.  I am not allowed to purchase the health insurance I want because it is illegal.

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zappaisgod said:
Pre-existing conditions is not a travesty.  Do you think you should be allowed to buy collision insurance AFTER you get in an accident?

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zappaisgod said:
What women's rights?

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zappaisgod said:
The financial industry was badly damaged by regulation (CRA and Sarbanes Oxley, to name two).

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So you don't consider Enron and WorldCom damage? 

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zappaisgod said:
Idiots who can't read the contracts they sign with credit card agency deserve to get fucked.  Now it costs me more.

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zappaisgod said:
As far as I can tell he hasn't done a fucking thing with food safety.

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zappaisgod said:
He is pandering to the loser and lazy bum constituency at the expense of achievers.

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zappaisgod said:
Incredibly damaging things he has done:

Huge debt

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zappaisgod said:
Demonization of earners people who make money by screwing over the working class (i.e. Mitt Romney)

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zappaisgod said:
Hideous health care debacle.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:
FDR:

Soc Sec Ponzi scheme.  His big spending policies prolonged the effects of the depression. 

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FDR's big spending policies is a model to show stimulus spending works during hard times.  For some reason, conservatives get that WWII helped the economy, but they don't get that was one of the biggest examples of stimulus spending ever.

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zappaisgod said:
I lost my insurance plan when he promised I would get to keep it.  Company after company is dropping health care.  I am not allowed to purchase the health insurance I want because it is illegal.

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I'd love to hear more about this.

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zappaisgod said:
Pre-existing conditions is not a travesty.  Do you think you should be allowed to buy collision insurance AFTER you get in an accident?

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Of course not.  But you don't seem to understand the concept of universal health insurance.  Everyone is covered - period.  You don't just cover people that don't need it.

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zappaisgod said:
What women's rights?

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Fair Pay Act of 2009, requiring women's health coverage, and things discussed in other political threads in the last few months.

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zappaisgod said:
The financial industry was badly damaged by regulation (CRA and Sarbanes Oxley, to name two).

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So you don't consider Enron and WorldCom damage? 

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zappaisgod said:
Idiots who can't read the contracts they sign with credit card agency deserve to get fucked.  Now it costs me more.

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Do you seriously think anyone reads their credit card contracts?  Credit card companies shouldn't be allowed to increase interest rates just because they feel like it after someone's piled up some debt.

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zappaisgod said:
As far as I can tell he hasn't done a fucking thing with food safety.

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Food Safety Modernization Act

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zappaisgod said:
He is pandering to the loser and lazy bum constituency at the expense of achievers.

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The middle class works a lot harder than rich people making money off of capital gains.

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zappaisgod said:
Incredibly damaging things he has done:

Huge debt

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That wouldn't be the case if not for the shitty economy he inherited.

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zappaisgod said:
Demonization of earners people who make money by screwing over the working class (i.e. Mitt Romney)

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Fixed that for you.

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zappaisgod said:
Hideous health care debacle.

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We can agree.  It was good when it was Medicare for all, but the Republicans fucked it up.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
FDR's big spending policies is a model to show stimulus spending works during hard times.  For some reason, conservatives know that WWII helped the economy, but they don't get that was one of the biggest examples of stimulus spending ever.

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Really?  We went into huge debt that wasn't paid off until the sixties.  That helped?

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
So you don't consider Enron and WorldCom damage? 

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There were already laws to prosecute that.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Credit card companies shouldn't be allowed to increase interest rates just because they feel like it after someone's piled up some debt.

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Then pay it off and drop them.  Duh.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The middle class works a lot harder than rich people making money off of capital gains.

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Your continued ignorance about how most of the rich make their money is not surprising.  Neither I nor my wife makes one cent off of capital gains.

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Here's a chart, showing that you're the ignorant one (as always):

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zappaisgod said:
And no, the middle class does not work harder.  Never have, never will.

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People here know that are middle class aren't a bunch of lazy losers as you make them out to be.  They work harder than people making their money off of capital gains.  If that's not you, then I'm not saying the middle class works harder than you.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:
Incredibly damaging things he has done:

Huge debt

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That wouldn't be the case if not for the shitty economy he inherited.

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That he helped create by suing under the CRA to lend money to bums.

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If your logic holds true, then we should ban guns becuase criminals use them to commit crimes.  I'd rather we go after the criminal and not the gun.  Just like I'd rather go after the insurance companies who sold credit default swaps to banks that bet subprime loans would go bad, even though the insurance companies couldn't cover those bets.  That caused FAR more damage than the subprime loans gone bad (of which only 6% were CRA).

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zappaisgod said:
How did Mitt Romney screw the working class when he had an 80% success rate in the failing companies Bain took over?

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I didn't claim Mitt Romney didn't make money.  I claimed he screwed the working class in the process.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It was good when it was Medicare for all, but the Republicans fucked it up.

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The Republicans had nothing to do with it.  They didn't control the House and they didn't control the Senate and they didn't control the White House.  They had nothing.  They couldn't even filibuster it.  100% Democrat nonsense.

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You think Democrats were the ones against Medicare for all? 

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Quote:

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zappaisgod said:

Quote:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
FDR's big spending policies is a model to show stimulus spending works during hard times.  For some reason, conservatives know that WWII helped the economy, but they don't get that was one of the biggest examples of stimulus spending ever.

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Really?  We went into huge debt that wasn't paid off until the sixties.  That helped?

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Yes.  The Great Depression lasted from 1929 until 1941, with no signs of recovery.  Then stimulus spending went nuts with WWII, and the depression ended very quickly.  Yes, the debt had to be paid back down, but the country finally was doing well after 12 years of depression.

12 years of depression prolonged by FDR policies

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zappaisgod said:
BY the way, you didn't actually respond to Soc Sec, did you.  Totally ignored it.  Swept it under the rug.  Nope, I can't see it Lalalalala I can't hear you.

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Social security is the easiest problem in the world to fix.  Here's the fix which you seemed to forgot.

How could I forget it?  It's all the left wing ever has as a solution; TAX THE RICH UNTIL THEY BLEED!  NOt so easy when you realize that they will change their strategy.  I already rebutted that idiocy


Did you know that your benefits are determined by your lifetime contributions and that if you took more in payroll taxes from the rich you would have to pay them more when they retire?  Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about.  We need to raise the benefit receiving age and stop giving every whiny fuck disability because of a hangnail.

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zappaisgod said:
I am not allowed to purchase the health insurance I want because it is illegal.

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Why was it illegal?

Because the insurance companies are forced to include a whole bunch of shit I don't want by law.  Like mental health and rehab. 

Quote:

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zappaisgod said:
I understand the concept and I reject it.  Why can't I refuse to pay for every little piece of your health care?  Why should I have to pay for your rehab?  Your earache, your flu shot or your whore pills?

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Because you live in a civilized society where sick people should't be left untreated just because they make minimum wage.

We already had poor sick people covered.  You didn't answer the question.  You answered another question that I didn't ask.

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zappaisgod said:
The Fair Pay Act is an abominable interference in the free market.  There are damn good reasons why women in general get paid less.  They work fewer hours, cost more in health care, and are less responsive to employer needs.

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Then they should lose their lawsuits that they were previously unable to file due to an unreasonable statute of limitations.

There are statutes of limitations for everything except murder and child abuse.  Everything.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
So you don't consider Enron and WorldCom damage? 

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There were already laws to prosecute that.

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But not to prevent it from happening in the first place.

People still rob banks and shoot each other and still commit fraud. 

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zappaisgod said:

Quote:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Credit card companies shouldn't be allowed to increase interest rates just because they feel like it after someone's piled up some debt.

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Then pay it off and drop them.  Duh.

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Not everyone can just "pay it off".  There should be laws preventing predatory lending.

There is no such thing as predatory lending and people shouldn't be treating credit cards as long term loans.  I don't.  because I'm not a fucking idiot.  If you need a credit card to meet your bills you shouldn't have a credit card.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The middle class works a lot harder than rich people making money off of capital gains.

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Your continued ignorance about how most of the rich make their money is not surprising.  Neither I nor my wife makes one cent off of capital gains.

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Here's a chart, showing that you're the ignorant one (as always):


That chart doesn't mention capital gains.  I like it though since it shows that the top  1% pay about 40% of income taxes, the top 5% about 60% of the taxes and the bottom 50% just about nothing.  Which has nothing to do with the point I made, as per your usual

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zappaisgod said:
And no, the middle class does not work harder.  Never have, never will.

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People here know that are middle class aren't a bunch of lazy losers as you make them out to be.  They work harder than people making their money off of capital gains.  If that's not you, then I'm not saying the middle class works harder than you.

It isn't me but I don't know why you think it is so easy to make money off of capital gains

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:
Incredibly damaging things he has done:

Huge debt

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That wouldn't be the case if not for the shitty economy he inherited.

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That he helped create by suing under the CRA to lend money to bums.

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If your logic holds true, then we should ban guns becuase criminals use them to commit crimes.  I'd rather we go after the criminal and not the gun.  Just like I'd rather go after the insurance companies who sold credit default swaps to banks that bet subprime loans would go bad, even though the insurance companies couldn't cover those bets.  That caused FAR more damage than the subprime loans gone bad (of which only 6% were CRA).

There would have been zero problem with credit default swaps if bums had made their loan payments.  And the CRA lowered lending standards for everybody.  Another triumph of social engineering and economic justice  "SHITTY RESULTS FOR EVERYBODY!"

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zappaisgod said:
How did Mitt Romney screw the working class when he had an 80% success rate in the failing companies Bain took over?

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I didn't claim Mitt Romney didn't make money.  I claimed he screwed the working class in the process.

How did the working class people who got to keep their jobs get screwed?  Every single one of those real working class people benefited.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It was good when it was Medicare for all, but the Republicans fucked it up.

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The Republicans had nothing to do with it.  They didn't control the House and they didn't control the Senate and they didn't control the White House.  They had nothing.  They couldn't even filibuster it.  100% Democrat nonsense.

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You think Democrats were the ones against Medicare for all? 

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zappaisgod said:
There would have been zero problem with credit default swaps if bums had made their loan payments.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The Great Depression lasted from 1929 until 1941, with no signs of recovery.  Then stimulus spending went nuts with WWII, and the depression ended very quickly.  Yes, the debt had to be paid back down, but the country finally was doing well after 12 years of depression.

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12 years of depression prolonged by FDR policies

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Social security is the easiest problem in the world to fix.  Here's the fix which you seemed to forgot.

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How could I forget it?  It's all the left wing ever has as a solution; TAX THE RICH UNTIL THEY BLEED!

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Why was your health insurance illegal?

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Because the insurance companies are forced to include a whole bunch of shit I don't want by law.  Like mental health and rehab.

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Good.  I don't want to pay for your mental health care when you need it, which is probably very soon. 

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:
Why can't I refuse to pay for every little piece of your health care?  Why should I have to pay for your rehab?  Your earache, your flu shot or your whore pills?

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Because you live in a civilized society where sick people should't be left untreated just because they make minimum wage.

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We already had poor sick people covered.  You didn't answer the question.  You answered another question that I didn't ask.

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No, sick people are not covered.  And I answered your question - you live in a civilized society, where the poor shouldn't be left untreated.

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zappaisgod said:
There are statutes of limitations for everything except murder and child abuse.  Everything.

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And the Fair Pay Act simply made the statute of limitations more reasonable.

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zappaisgod said:
People still rob banks and shoot each other and still commit fraud.

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True, but businesses generally don't intentionally break laws.

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zappaisgod said:
There is no such thing as predatory lending and people shouldn't be treating credit cards as long term loans.  I don't.  because I'm not a fucking idiot.  If you need a credit card to meet your bills you shouldn't have a credit card.

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There's nothing wrong with someone buying a nice home theater (as an example) on a credit card if they can pay it back at the current rate.  There's something wrong if the bank decides to change the current rate just because they can.

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The middle class works a lot harder than rich people making money off of capital gains.

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Your continued ignorance about how most of the rich make their money is not surprising.  Neither I nor my wife makes one cent off of capital gains.

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Here's a chart, showing that you're the ignorant one (as always):

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That chart doesn't mention capital gains.  I like it though since it shows that the top  1% pay about 40% of income taxes, the top 5% about 60% of the taxes and the bottom 50% just about nothing.  Which has nothing to do with the point I made, as per your usual

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My mistake; wrong chart.  Here's the one I meant to post:


Still shows you're ignorant about who earns the most capital gains.  And the previous chart basically just shows that the rich earn a lot more, which is why they pay a lot more (I'm not complaining that they earn more either).

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zappaisgod said:

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:
And no, the middle class does not work harder.  Never have, never will.

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People here know that are middle class aren't a bunch of lazy losers as you make them out to be.  They work harder than people making their money off of capital gains.  If that's not you, then I'm not saying the middle class works harder than you.

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It isn't me but I don't know why you think it is so easy to make money off of capital gains

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You think it's so hard to invest?  While it may take a little research, it doesn't compare to people working 40-60 hours a week.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

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zappaisgod said:
He isn't Obama, who is well on his way to snatching the crown of "worst economic disaster" from FDR.  He has no understanding of economics and I have seen no reason to believe that he gives a shit about anybody but himself.

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If you consider FDR the "worst ecomomic disaster", then I would hope that Obama snatches the new crown, as FDR was one of the greatest success stories in American history, and is considered one of our top 3 presidents of all time, if not the best.

If you want a reason to believe Obama gives a shit about anyone, here are a few:

Expanded access to medical care and provided subsidies for people who can't afford it
Fixed the preexisting conditions travesty in health insurance
Advanced women's rights in the work place
Ended Don't Ask, Don't Tell
Overhauled the credit card industry, making it more consumer-friendly
Started re-regulating the financial sector
Created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
Overhauled the food safety system

Please back up your comments.

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zappaisgod said:
FDR:

Soc Sec Ponzi scheme.  His big spending policies prolonged the effects of the depression. 

Obama:

I lost my insurance plan when he promised I would get to keep it.  Company after company is dropping health care.  I am not allowed to purchase the health insurance I want because it is illegal.

Pre-existing conditions is not a travesty.  Do you think you should be allowed to buy collision insurance AFTER you get in an accident?  His bullshit has increased costs for almost everybody.

What women's rights?

I give almost no shit about "don't ask don't tell" but I note that he was against gay marriage before he was for it and says it's a state's rights issue anyway.  What a mensch.

The financial industry was badly damaged by regulation (CRA and Sarbanes Oxley, to name two). 

Idiots who can't read the contracts they sign with credit card agency deserve to get fucked.  Now it costs me more.

As far as I can tell he hasn't done a fucking thing with food safety.

He is pandering to the loser and lazy bum constituency at the expense of achievers.



Incredibly damaging things he has done:

Huge debt

Demonization of earners

Hideous health care debacle.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

You think it's so hard to invest?  While it may take a little research, it doesn't compare to people working 40-60 hours a week.

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