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 OrgoneConclusion
Rico Suave
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 35,736
Loc: Candyland
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 Elephant Whisperer Dies 
#16229350 - 05/14/12 04:04 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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http://delightmakers.com/news-bleat/wild-elephants-gather-inexplicably-mourn-death-of-elephant-whisperer/
Interesting fellow and story, but this thread is about the need to anthropormize.
“A good man died suddenly,” says Rabbi Leila Gal Berner, Ph.D., “and from miles and miles away, two herds of elephants, sensing that they had lost a beloved human friend, moved in a solemn, almost ‘funereal’ procession to make a call on the bereaved family at the deceased man’s home.”
Really? Elephants are psychic?
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 Freedom
Will swim for food
Registered: 05/26/05
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It was also interesting to learn that elephants mourn the dead in a similar way as humans
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,289
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Wasn't that latest guy attacked and killed by an elephant he trained also "beloved" my his prisoners... uh... I mean... elephants? I don't remember reading anthropomorphic news storied back then.
I suppose elephants are only human-like when they do "nice" things.
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"The axioms for a group are short and natural... Yet somehow hidden behind these axioms is the monster simple group, a huge and extraordinary mathematical object, which appears to rely on numerous bizarre coincidences to exist. The axioms for groups give no obvious hint that anything like this exists." -- Richard Borcherds
If there is a creator, he definitely has a sense of humor.
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OrgoneConclusion
Rico Suave
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 35,736
Loc: Candyland
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 Re: Elephant Whisperer Dies [Re: Diploid]
#16229482 - 05/14/12 04:34 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Your cynicism is showing. 
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HagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
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Re: Elephant Whisperer Dies [Re: Diploid]
#16229518 - 05/14/12 04:43 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Well that assumption would be short-sighted.
Like humans, they protect their offspring. They stay with their young for years at least, sometimes never separating. They will risk their lives trying to protect them and sometimes kill the perceived threat.
Like humans, they often abhor captivity and make attempts to escape. They too will kill, or risk being killed.
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Understanding is near, don't do anything stupid!
All be well!!!
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OrgoneConclusion
Rico Suave
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 35,736
Loc: Candyland
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And - according to the mystic-heads, they can detect when a man's heart stops from miles away. 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,494
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
http://delightmakers.com/news-bleat/wild-elephants-gather-inexplicably-mourn-death-of-elephant-whisperer/
Interesting fellow and story, but this thread is about the need to anthropormize.
“A good man died suddenly,” says Rabbi Leila Gal Berner, Ph.D., “and from miles and miles away, two herds of elephants, sensing that they had lost a beloved human friend, moved in a solemn, almost ‘funereal’ procession to make a call on the bereaved family at the deceased man’s home.”
Really? Elephants are psychic?
What is unusual about the call they were trying to make is that they were using cell phones. This however is not a sign of higher intelligence.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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OrgoneConclusion
Rico Suave
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 35,736
Loc: Candyland
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Re: Elephant Whisperer Dies [Re: Icelander]
#16229634 - 05/14/12 05:02 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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They have trouble with the tiny buttons.
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HagbardCeline
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Isn't anthropomorphizing the logical result of ego? In trying to understand our own kind, our individual persona's are the zero point of the scale we use to judge the behavior of others. Those behaviors are valued on their similarities to our own and consequently preference is integrated in this value as well.
It was our ability for pattern recognition that helped us in being so successful in our development. Our skills for avoiding risk to realizing opportunities depend on how well we understand our observations. Anthropomorphizing makes understanding easier.
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Understanding is near, don't do anything stupid!
All be well!!!
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OrgoneConclusion
Rico Suave
Registered: 04/01/07
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Loc: Candyland
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Quote:
Anthropomorphizing makes understanding ignorance easier.
Making up a story on these elephants (or Tim Treadwell's brown bears) and gushing about it all over the net as if it is evidence for something extraordinary adds nothing to the body of knowledge - just more nonsensical myth to wade through.
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HagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
And - according to the mystic-heads, they can detect when a man's heart stops from miles away.
As you seem to be attempting to demonstrate that attributing human characteristics to animals is somehow unwarranted or irrational, then why are you concurrently attempting to show that a human characteristic which you understand as unwarranted and irrational does not apply to animals? You are anthropomorphizing.
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Understanding is near, don't do anything stupid!
All be well!!!
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HagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
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Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Anthropomorphizing makes understanding ignorance easier.
Making up a story on these elephants (or Tim Treadwell's brown bears) and gushing about it all over the net as if it is evidence for something extraordinary adds nothing to the body of knowledge - just more nonsensical myth to wade through.
I disagree that it adds nothing, it is information that can be construed for beliefs. Right or wrong, it is still information and information is always valuable.
But I can understand the sentiment. In this forum we have similar people claiming their beliefs are evidence like ad campaings being insincere because they disagree with them, or that people couldn't possibly be better from using drugs despite those people describing themselves as feeling better, to even the outlandish that an idea which has been defined can't be defined if people interpret those ideas differently and that is somehow evidence of retardation.
It is difficult understanding why people are compelled in using observations that appear to them as being concordant with their beliefs as somehow being evidence of validation.
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Understanding is near, don't do anything stupid!
All be well!!!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,494
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
They have trouble with the tiny buttons.
Yes, many wrong numbers as a result. 
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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OrgoneConclusion
Rico Suave
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 35,736
Loc: Candyland
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Quote:
Right or wrong, it is still information and information is always valuable.
That goes in the top five most retarded things ever posted in PSP. 
Naturally, you made no such case for this silliness because there is none.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 15,169
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I think it's cool that the elephants maybe wanted to sit shiva.
Too bad there were no sandwiches or whisky.
My favorite part of any shiva is the chopped herring on a nice bagel.
usually very few elephants, actually not many cows either, sometimes there are a few wise people.
Shivas are pretty civilized way to say goodbye, by saying hello to those around in honor of those who are recently departed.
Let's just say two herds of elephants took a walk. ok. no anthropomorphy, and don't even think twice about it if it bugs you that they walked to the special dead guy's house 2 days after he died. and then they left 2 days later. just as matter-of-factly as if they did it every day.
Two herds of elephants is a lot of weight.
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OrgoneConclusion
Rico Suave
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 35,736
Loc: Candyland
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Without knowing the elephants' normal schedule it is difficult to assign any meaning whatsoever. Elephants walking don't bug me, it is faulty (non-orgone) conclusions that I take umbrage with.
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Jwlst
Stranger
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 15,169
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well I hope you get to the bottom of that mystery (what is there pattie, i.e. where they usually go in single file, and if they happen to visit this location normally en masse just to camp out 2 days and then resume their routine of foraging)
I would hate for you to just drop the the whole thing after having raised the elephant pattern.
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OrgoneConclusion
Rico Suave
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 35,736
Loc: Candyland
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Proving an elephant (or a dog/cat/parakeet/human) can detect a heart stoppage from a good distance is worth a cool million. It is the in believer's interest to do more than pass along a fairy tale.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 15,169
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I don't think the heart stoppage is what motivates them,
first the pattern, I agree, then the trigger, that is much more difficult.
the pattern is enough of a mind bender, and pretty easy to check, for a man of means like you. (no personalism meant at all)
Anyway you don't have to deny the pattern based upon a heart stoppage issue, like I said, I don't think heartbeating is what was keeping them afield.
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