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 Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,675
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck 
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 Re: The Real News  [Re: nice1]
#16245165 - 05/17/12 03:06 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nice1 said:
When its backed up with documents its as close an approximation of truth as we can get. At least Aj does present the documents - mainstream media presents itself as truth without question and often never provides evidence or sources - they all copy stories off reuters or A.P.
documents dont equate to facts
Quote:
I do have to do my own research too though, I've found plenty of stories that have been misrepresented and blown out of proportion on Infowars. I do not take it as absolute truth nor would I take anything from anyone as 100% truth - even myself.
maybe you should do a little research on the FEMA Caskets and FEMA Camps
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,668
Loc: Americas
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Re: The Real News [Re: ivander]
#16245539 - 05/17/12 04:36 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ivander said:
Quote:
Enlil said:
So there you have it...you just want to believe what you've convinced yourself is the truth...that's fine, but don't pretend that it's anything but faith.
Watch your step, cuz you are walking in same shoes.
So what?
I never understood these arguments where someone redirects the matter to the critic and says "you too". How does that matter? Where, such as in this case, the validity of the critic's alternate world view is irrelevant and not at issue, and the only issue being discussed is the reasonableness of the criticism (or the original claim), it seems completely misplaced to pull a "you too".
First, its simply baseless, there is no information on which to conclude the critic is indeed committing the same error as the only argument is over their criticism, not their alternate view. Second, it is no defense to the criticism. That someone else, who hasn't claimed knowledge, is shown to suffer some defect, does not in the least affect the validity of the argument being criticized.
I see this with creationists all the time. When discussing the validity of scriptures or whether ID should be taught in schools they constantly say "science sucks" or something like that. How does that present any evidence that ID should be taught or that the scriptures are valid? Just because some of the possible alternatives may suck doesn't mean the given alternative is reasonable.
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 ivander
Paragon of Animal
Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1,344
Last seen: 16 hours, 31 seconds
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Quote:
I never understood these arguments where someone redirects the matter to the critic and says "you too". How does that matter?
It's just arrogant and bordering trolling. Its silly to accuse someone of something while you have same garbage in the backyard.
Quote:
Where, such as in this case, the validity of the critic's alternate world view is irrelevant and not at issue, and the only issue being discussed is the reasonableness of the criticism (or the original claim), it seems completely misplaced to pull a "you too".
Boy oh boy, arent you doing exact same thing? Who is to say what is irrelevant and what is relevant? Dont get me wrong, I do understand you, but this forum, is darkest place on shroomery, IMO, so is it important to pull 'you too' argument or not, who is to judge?
Quote:
First, its simply baseless, there is no information on which to conclude the critic is indeed committing the same error as the only argument is over their criticism, not their alternate view. Second, it is no defense to the criticism. That someone else, who hasn't claimed knowledge, is shown to suffer some defect, does not in the least affect the validity of the argument being criticized.
You wouldn't say that(IMO) if you, if you understood OP and read his explanations on these matters. And critics positions is baseless enough if you read carefully.
Quote:
I see this with creationists all the time. When discussing the validity of scriptures or whether ID should be taught in schools they constantly say "science sucks" or something like that. How does that present any evidence that ID should be taught or that the scriptures are valid? Just because some of the possible alternatives may suck doesn't mean the given alternative is reasonable.
I dont know what to tell you here, cuz I cant find any meaning, or how it relates.
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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche
I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.
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nice1
Not the droid your looking for
Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 5 months, 12 days
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
nice1 said:
When its backed up with documents its as close an approximation of truth as we can get. At least Aj does present the documents - mainstream media presents itself as truth without question and often never provides evidence or sources - they all copy stories off reuters or A.P.
documents dont equate to facts
In this case they often do as we in "conspiracy" are often defending stuff thats admitted in gov documents. Some people refuse to believe anything conspiracy themed even if it is a admitted fact.
Quote:
maybe you should do a little research on the FEMA Caskets and FEMA Camps
Why? Whats your opinion?
FEMA camps are real and pretty interesting considering they are supposed to be "safety centers" yet the barb wire fencing at the top is pointing inwards. Sounds like Orwellian double speak to me but physical properties of the camp don't tell the same lie.
Of course, I'm basing that on what I've seen online photo/video - I've never actually been to one myself so I'm only using my best model here to formulate possible conclusions.
Despite stereotyping I'm also a science lover. If ideas are shown incorrect and/or more probable explainations exist - I will alter and update them. I'm not here to propose an idea and defend it like an ego. I'm here to discuss ideas - if someone progresses that or changes it completely - I take their knowledge and intergrate it. Always have, always will.
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nice1
Not the droid your looking for
Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 5 months, 12 days
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Re: The Real News [Re: nice1]
#16248712 - 05/18/12 06:28 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Pris1 said:
Quote:
oh, please tell us what this means when there's already a camera in every
shop and every street corner and every building and alley way, will they
also house machine gun turrets or is this yet another thing you believe and
then deny having any beliefs in because you say you have no beliefs, maybe
by that you're trying to imply that you 'know the truth'
sorespore, the article is full of flaws, it was published a couple months ago
by infowars or some other conspiracy website and has been making it's rounds
every since, had wired bothered to check facts they they'd discover that the
totality of the building on fort gordon are around the 300,000 square foot
mark and there's nothing on base that suggest it's an NSA listening post
I'm done even talking to you - the amount of times I've tried to explain this over and over... I'm done. No idea why I waste my time communicating with someone that purposely refuses to read or understand what I'm saying.
I hope for your sake you are just a troll because the alternative is even worse. Please don't bother talking to me on here again.
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nice1
Not the droid your looking for
Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 5 months, 12 days
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Re: The Real News [Re: nice1]
#16248713 - 05/18/12 06:30 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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And in case anyone is wondering,
Pris refuses to accept the human condition - that is that its impossible to prove anything absolutely.
Secondly, he attacks the messenger (infowars, me etc) instead of the data.
Constantly the same shit over and over - I refuse to talk to someone completely unwilling to be reasonable.
This is my whole problem with debate here nowadays - people are just out to defend their egos.
Knowing to attack the data and not the messenger is a basic concept (so is understanding the nature of belief and the human condition) - I find it hard to understand how anyone can see that as a reasonable response especially from a moderator 
You are always enforcing rules on content and trolling yet I've litterally sat here and told you 100x over not to attack mediums and explaining the errors of absolute belief.
If you are not trolling me then what are you?
I don't understand how anyone can keep going in circles like that. I can only assume you are incapable of compehension or trolling me Pris - so which is it?
Do you understand the difference between DATA and MEDIUM?
Your either a troll whos a mod or you need to take some tutoring on basic logic. It makes no difference who published it or if they are conspiracy related. Any news source will have published errors and false stories before. Any and every news source. So baring that in mind - WTF is your point? lol
Edited by nice1 (05/18/12 06:51 AM)
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michroomer
Stranger
Registered: 04/30/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 9 months, 4 days
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Re: The Real News [Re: ivander]
#16248736 - 05/18/12 06:42 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Just throwing this in the mix, but for all you young ones, you need to listen to Mr. William Milton Cooper.
Hour of the time is now available for your listening enjoyment:
HOTT Brodcasts
Alex Jones nemisis.
--------------------
My Journal: Please read and help a noobie : )
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Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,854
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Re: The Real News [Re: nice1]
#16248773 - 05/18/12 07:06 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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This is where you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the differences between evidence and argument...
Evidence is something that makes a fact at issue more or less likely to be true.
Argument is a technique whereby one logically deduces a fact at issue by applying logic to other facts.
The difference is crucial...and conspiracy theorists misunderstand it...
We ask for evidence, they post videos that contain argument...
Your "attack the messenger" issue is really just you claiming that someone is using an ad hominem attack. Such attacks are, in fact, improper when used against argument...because argument, if logical, does not depend on the credibility of the one arguing.
An example of this is:
A: If you've got three eggs, and I take two, you'll only have one left
B: How would you know, you're blind!
B is clearly not saying anything that refutes the logic that A is using...this is an ad hominem attack.
However, if we change the scenario a bit....
A: You have three eggs in your hand
B: How would you know, you're blind!
Now A is not making an argument...A is stating a fact, and is thus a source of evidence. B is attacking A's credibility. This is a valid attack because A's ability to see directly affects the reliability of the evidence A is providing...
Okay...lesson over...
When people attack infowars, they're attacking the credibility of the source...not the logic of the argument...That is a valid attack.
--------------------
Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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nice1
Not the droid your looking for
Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 5 months, 12 days
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Re: The Real News [Re: Enlil]
#16248791 - 05/18/12 07:15 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
When people attack infowars, they're attacking the credibility of the source...not the logic of the argument...That is a valid attack.
Untrue - all mediums of information are equally capable of putting out false information.
You are either attacking the data or attacking the medium of information. Its that simple.
Attacking the medium is useless unless you are suggesting to know that some mediums are only presenting truth and some not? If thats the case then please tell me which mediums are only presenting truth? 
See my point? Attacking the medium instead of the data is useless.
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michroomer
Stranger
Registered: 04/30/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 9 months, 4 days
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Re: The Real News [Re: nice1]
#16248812 - 05/18/12 07:41 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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My comment was not an attack by any means. It was an opportunity to learn. Take it.
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My Journal: Please read and help a noobie : )
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nice1
Not the droid your looking for
Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 5 months, 12 days
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Me?
Ive already watched mr cooper many times but thanks.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,675
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The Real News [Re: nice1]
#16250419 - 05/18/12 04:55 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nice1 said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
nice1 said:
When its backed up with documents its as close an approximation of truth as we can get. At least Aj does present the documents - mainstream media presents itself as truth without question and often never provides evidence or sources - they all copy stories off reuters or A.P.
documents dont equate to facts
In this case they often do as we in "conspiracy" are often defending stuff thats admitted in gov documents. Some people refuse to believe anything conspiracy themed even if it is a admitted fact.
then where are these documents?
Quote:
Quote:
maybe you should do a little research on the FEMA Caskets and FEMA Camps
Why? Whats your opinion?
FEMA camps are real and pretty interesting considering they are supposed to be "safety centers" yet the barb wire fencing at the top is pointing inwards. Sounds like Orwellian double speak to me but physical properties of the camp don't tell the same lie.
so where are these FEMA camps? give us some satellite coordinates so we can
see them with our own eyes, have you seen them yourself? if not, how do you
know they're real, sure as hell sounds to me like you BELIEVE something
Quote:
Of course, I'm basing that on what I've seen online photo/video - I've never actually been to one myself so I'm only using my best model here to formulate possible conclusions.
video meant to lead you to a conclusion, why not post the videos so they
can be refuted or are you too afraid they will be easily refuted and your
BELIEFS will be shattered
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,675
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: The Real News [Re: nice1]
#16250439 - 05/18/12 04:59 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nice1 said:
I'm done even talking to you - the amount of times I've tried to explain this over and over... I'm done. No idea why I waste my time communicating with someone that purposely refuses to read or understand what I'm saying.
I hope for your sake you are just a troll because the alternative is even worse. Please don't bother talking to me on here again.
that's the problem, you do nothing but talk and when you're asked to provide
evidence such as the videos on the FEMA camps you typically give this very
sort of statement because you know the shit will fall apart under scrutiny,
it's a pretty delicate ego you have that cant handle a little shock that
would show you your illuminati/aliens/global elite belief systems are a fraud
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
|
nice1
Not the droid your looking for
Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 5 months, 12 days
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Bah, no one has ever shown me anything is a fraud tho. I'm open to changing opinions.
TBH all the stuff Ive seen on FEMA was yonks ago so how am i supposed to bring you the exact video and satellite coordinates the second you asked for it?
So your opinion is there are no camps at all? like I said all I've seen is videos. If you search youtube theres thousands.
I have ideas that I can change, not a belief - you have a belief that this stuff isn't real and you always do anything to support that idea.
For example you stated in the pub that if multiple witnesses and multiple independent radars report/detect a UFO that you believe it must be a radar malfunction in every independent radar station and you failed to address the corroborating witnesses so dunno how your rationalized that away... but the point remains - your so against changing your beliefs that its kinda absurd.
If you present a reasonable argument I'll change mine yeah but just saying everything must be malfunctioning is ridiculous.
Besides ive seen a UFO myselfm had a close encounter, so nothing you can say is going to alter my own experience. I trust my experience more than I trust your opinions.
As much as you claim I've got a belief well so do you - I'm open to changing mine though.
Edited by nice1 (05/18/12 06:50 PM)
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nice1
Not the droid your looking for
Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 5 months, 12 days
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
illuminati/aliens/global elite belief systems are a fraud
Thats your belief right there.
You've taken a whole load of concepts and stuff them in a mental box labeled bullshit - now you spend you days trying to keep that big box labeled by making crazy claims about malfunctioning radars and attacking mediums.
You always ask me for proof, so prove that statement there and I'll change my opinion. I don't require absolute proof, just some sound logic/data but you never have any. You logic makes me laugh because its not rational.
If I have 5 radars and a load of witnesses report a ufo in my mind its more logical to assume there probably was a ufo there than to make up reasons like "all the radars malfunctioned at the same time with the same error". 
To be precise, ive never researched illuminati you will find nothing from me on that.
Aliens are highly likely in this universe.
Global elite - highly likely again. There must be an elite because people own companies, whoever owns companies has an amount of power and control.
So whats your problem with my opinions on those?
Edited by nice1 (05/18/12 07:04 PM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,675
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The Real News [Re: nice1]
#16251521 - 05/18/12 09:40 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nice1 said:
Bah, no one has ever shown me anything is a fraud tho. I'm open to changing opinions.
TBH all the stuff Ive seen on FEMA was yonks ago so how am i supposed to bring you the exact video and satellite coordinates the second you asked for it?
So your opinion is there are no camps at all? like I said all I've seen is videos. If you search youtube theres thousands.
how am I supposed to see the videos you saw that show the fema camps
existence if there's thousands, you saw the videos, you'd know them better
than I would and yet you refuse to show them and instead show some 2 hour
music video called the rise of FEMA and dont tell us what time marks we
need to look for
I've been to three of the so called REX84 sites, 2 I showed ID, walked on
base, drove around the base and had fun with friends, asked loads of
questions and they got a great laugh, one of the laugher guys was a Brig
General, same guy that called my house when I was 17 and asked me to hurry
up with my enlistment, same guy that offered to make me a seat in any MOS I
chose. the 3rd site i didnt have clearance to enter but I scoped the place
out from the fence line
you dont even live in the US and you're trying to convince me that this
shit is real, once more, I'm laughing
Quote:
Besides ive seen a UFO myselfm had a close encounter, so nothing you can say is going to alter my own experience. I trust my experience more than I trust your opinions.
As much as you claim I've got a belief well so do you - I'm open to changing mine though.
dont you believe you saw a UFO?
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,675
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: The Real News [Re: nice1]
#16251583 - 05/18/12 09:53 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nice1 said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
illuminati/aliens/global elite belief systems are a fraud
Thats your belief right there.
I'm not the one claiming not to have beliefs, you are.
Quote:
You've taken a whole load of concepts and stuff them in a mental box labeled bullshit - now you spend you days trying to keep that big box labeled by making crazy claims about malfunctioning radars and attacking mediums.
no, I've taken a lot of things, did actual legwork, went to sites and saw
for myself, asked people questions, I spent 8 years in the army, I worked
with people in several areas of government while on assignments, I intended
to muster out and hit the CIA/NSA as my occupation prior to retirement, I
dont watch a couple of youtube videos and have it all figured out because
some jackasses made a compelling argument, I go there and I look for
myself, I do the actual digging.
Quote:
You always ask me for proof, so prove that statement there and I'll change my opinion. I don't require absolute proof, just some sound logic/data but you never have any. You logic makes me laugh because its not rational.
that's like asking someone to prove the devil does/doesnt exist, I require
proof because I dont like to be deceived, I dont believe in religion and
conspiracy theories are the religion for the disgruntled paranoids that
want to believe that there's some unseen hand guiding shit
Quote:
Aliens are highly likely in this universe.
Global elite - highly likely again. There must be an elite because people own companies, whoever owns companies has an amount of power and control.
So whats your problem with my opinions on those?
alien life, probably does exist, it would be foolish to believe that out of
hundreds of billions of planets that have the potential to support life
that we're the only ones... to believe they're flying over here and
watching us, that's much less plausible
global elite, to assume the companies run the world is ludicrous, maybe you
should hit africa, take the walking tour, tell me how much of that is run
by the huge corporations. yes we have politicians that suck corporate cock
but that doesnt mean they run the country, if they did they wouldnt have to
deal with regulations and would be making far more than 6% profit margins
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
|
nice1
Not the droid your looking for
Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 5 months, 12 days
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I don't have beliefs I have theories of likelyness - for all I know I'm dreaming. When I dream it is accepted as my reality without question.
How many times do I have to explain that?
When I saw the UFO it was up close, had 2 other witnesses and it changed the environment physically therefore the weight of evidence was that it is as real as anything else in this reality.
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nice1
Not the droid your looking for
Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 5 months, 12 days
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
to believe they're flying over here and
watching us, that's much less plausible
Not if you take into consideration the age of the universe, the age of the earth - statistically if life exists on other planets there will be life millions or billions of years older than human life. Using earth and humans as the model we can assume they would have technology to visit Earth when millions or billions of years more growth than us.
But thats besides the point - we have already established that advanced craft are here flying around, witnesses who have close encounters with the pilots have claimed they are ET. So I'm basing my theory on personal expedience (having seen one myself) and my understanding of life in the universe and the age of our planet.
Quote:
global elite, to assume the companies run the world is ludicrous,
 The GDP of many companies is bigger than some entire countries.
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-30/wall_street/31258625_1_fiji-solomon-islands-cape-verde
In real world hierarchy there are only 2 things that give power and control, 1 is violence/force (military might), the second is money/assets. Politics is controlled by money and just a public relations front for military and money. Media/politics is just propaganda or psy ops - simply its just swaying public opinion.
Military
Money
Media
Its a new world out there now - countries and borders have become diminished as global corporatism has taken over. These companies are bigger than countries. Sorry but if you don't see what has happened then your oblivious to the way the world is operating today. Companies are running the show, they finance armies and political agendas.
Edited by nice1 (05/19/12 07:11 AM)
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nice1
Not the droid your looking for
Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 10,449
Loc: earth
Last seen: 5 months, 12 days
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So thats why your claims of "fraud" do not change my opinion Pris - you have not taken into consideration the factors that I have - you continue to ignore them in order to support your paradigm.
Debunk the attributes I have considered for my model/theory and I will alter it. Its shame you can't do the same for yours.
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