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 Diesel_Dawg
Not a noob
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 Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help...  [Re: caesar]
#16203483 - 05/09/12 07:11 AM (1 year, 14 days ago) |
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Yes, you're correct. GLC is a liquid mycelium culture created by injecting sterile water into a fully colonized grain jar, shaken up, and then the water is pulled back out and used to inoculate.
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OH1Ogrown
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: Diesel_Dawg]
#16203854 - 05/09/12 10:37 AM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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That's exactly what Doc spoke of. He's probably one of the most knowledgeable people on your post too, so definitely take heed.
I'm fairly sure the reason he's told you to steer clear of doing anything straight to LC is the fact that LC's are notorious for holding secret infection. You wont know until it's too late and you're losing jars.
Theoretically, if you take a sterile colonized grain, apply sterile water through the inoculation ports, and deposit your resultant myc water to another sterile container under aseptic conditions, your risk of contamination goes way way down.
But don't take that as Gospel, I'm not 100% sure that's why he recommended you to go GLC.
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 Doc_T
Random Dude
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: OH1Ogrown]
#16206151 - 05/09/12 08:11 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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It does, it is^^^.
Growing the myc out on grain gives you a good look at it.
NOT as good a look as you get growing it on an agar dish.
Agar is flat, you can see everything. A grain jar can still hide contaminants.
But with spores->LC, there's just no way to tell what is growing.
Go back through the last week and see how many people lost jars or bags to a bad syringe.
Multiple posters per day describe the same thing over and over, injecting unknown solutions and losing time, money, and patience.
Sometimes you can tell an LC is bad by looking. At best, you have to test it on another medium anyway.
Why fail when you can succeed?
Why wait when you can proceed?
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caesar
Seeking causal knowledge
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: Doc_T]
#16206215 - 05/09/12 08:23 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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I've been looking at agar methods, tools and supplies all day. Starting out, would you suggest an MEA premix powder? Alcohol lamp, scalpel, inoculation loop, petri dishes, parafilm and Glove Box/Still Air Box? Is it a lot cheaper to mix your own? Is it worth the hassle?
Gathering this stuff plus prints is starting to make my wallet blush.  What all is really necessary? I love the idea of agar--especially for cloning the best of the best and starting the upward spiral. I guess I am looking for some more guidance if you are willing. Thanks a zillion!
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Doc_T
Random Dude
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: caesar]
#16206246 - 05/09/12 08:29 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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Make a still air box, buy malt and agar locally.
PF jars will work ok until you want to buy petri dishes.
If you already have a little hobby knife that you can sterilize, you could get into agar work for like ten bucks.
But not matter how much it costs, it's worth it.
Saves endless amounts of time and materials later.
Seriously, go back through the last week's posts and look at how many contaminated grows there were.
Also, if you get even one pf cake to fruit, you can take spore prints and make your own syringes.
So LC isn't necessary under any circumstances since there's no shortage of spores.
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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caesar
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: Doc_T]
#16206313 - 05/09/12 08:41 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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Awesome. I'm on it. Right now, I have some B+ fruiting, but I really want the best. I'm looking at Pan Cyan Jamaican prints, Pan Cambo Goliath Prints, Ps. Frisco prints (for outdoors) from SporeWorks. Does this sound like a good list? I am so stoked you gave me courage to go agar. If I really want the best (in terms #1, of potency; #2, of yield; and #3, of moderate skill requirement) what species and strain should I be looking at?
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OH1Ogrown
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: Doc_T]
#16206327 - 05/09/12 08:43 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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And I suggest using a few different types of agar mediums when you get the chance. That way you can transfer from one medium into another as your work progresses. That will keep the myc from getting use to a medium. Kinda the same way bugs get use to a certain insecticide, your myc can get use to just PDA and it will stop thriving.
Variety is, afterall, the spice of life.
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OH1Ogrown
Student
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: caesar]
#16206359 - 05/09/12 08:49 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
caesar said:
Awesome. I'm on it. Right now, I have some B+ fruiting, but I really want the best. I'm looking at Pan Cyan Jamaican prints, Pan Cambo Goliath Prints, Ps. Frisco prints (for outdoors) from SporeWorks. Does this sound like a good list? I am so stoked you gave me courage to go agar. If I really want the best (in terms #1, of potency; #2, of yield; and #3, of moderate skill requirement) what species and strain should I be looking at?
If you feel that your skills are sufficient to cultivate the "higher level" mushies I'd go with the Azures. I believe you pretty much have to grow them outside...
If you want to stick with the simpler cubes to learn your hand at the agar first, I HIGHLY suggest the PE strain. A cube is a cube, but PE is reputable in the potency department, and with proper consolidation and optimal conditions I have seen PE grows net substantial yields.
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: OH1Ogrown]
#16206390 - 05/09/12 08:54 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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Cloning a nice potent cubensis will give you a head start on potency and give you skills you'll need to work with other species.
So start there. Then maybe try some of the sclerotia producers, they are hugely fun.
But yield and potency are really non-issues. Agar->grain->grain to grain->bulk will get you mushrooms by the handful. Eat up!
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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caesar
Seeking causal knowledge
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: OH1Ogrown]
#16206398 - 05/09/12 08:55 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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While I like the idea of outdoor grows, I'm pretty sure I missed the window for "planting" this season. I might try some azures or friscos in some houseplants and hope for fall/winter fruits. But, indoor fruiters are my main possibilities right now. That's what attracted me to the pans.
Another question: spores straight to agar? Is there ever any real necessity for syringes at all?
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Doc_T
Random Dude
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: caesar]
#16206421 - 05/09/12 09:00 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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Not really, I just use the tip of a scalpel to flake a few into an agar dish.
A brand new scalpel might be sharp enough to damage spores, you'll see people kvetch about that sometimes.
But there's plenty left, and after you PC the blade a couple times it's not that sharp anyway.
Once you get into agar work you seriously will wonder how the spore syringe idea got so popular.
It's part of the history of indoor cultivation, and it was an important step.
But now it's like cars with distributors and points instead of fuel injection and electronic ignition. Outdated and inefficient.
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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caesar
Seeking causal knowledge
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: Doc_T]
#16206438 - 05/09/12 09:05 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said:
Cloning a nice potent cubensis will give you a head start on potency and give you skills you'll need to work with other species.
So start there. Then maybe try some of the sclerotia producers, they are hugely fun.
But yield and potency are really non-issues. Agar->grain->grain to grain->bulk will get you mushrooms by the handful. Eat up!
I guess my mind is stuck in my green growing days 20 years ago. With that, it is all about getting the best genetics possible as soon as possible and then breeding up from there. You are undoubtedly right about learning the techniques which will have enduring value before splurging and maybe wasting cash. I can't say the exotics don't call, though....
Like agar, the spore print is kinda intimidating to a noob like myself as well. Maybe the syringe will hang in there as an accessible point of entry with the PF Tek.
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Doc_T
Random Dude
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Posts: 42,395
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: caesar]
#16206453 - 05/09/12 09:07 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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Yeah, it's not at all like growing weed. Genetics matters within species, clone a nice big potent fruit.
But half a pound of cubensis is plenty of potency, you don't need half a pound of azures.
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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OH1Ogrown
Student
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: Doc_T]
#16206463 - 05/09/12 09:08 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said:
Cloning a nice potent cubensis will give you a head start on potency... Agar->grain->grain to grain->bulk will get you mushrooms by the handful. Eat up!
QFT^
Quote:
caesar said:
spores straight to agar? Is there ever any real necessity for syringes at all?
Makes it easy to ninja your spores through a small crack between dish and lid with the needle... less chance of contamination when inoculating the dish.
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caesar
Seeking causal knowledge
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: OH1Ogrown]
#16206506 - 05/09/12 09:21 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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I'm going to sample a handful tomorrow. Believe it or not--first time. I'm excited. I traversed many a field as a youngster and ate toadstools by the handful (I am so lucky to be alive!), but the blue bruisers eluded me....till now.
Time for an FAE on my little ones. Thanks again for y'all's help. I'm going to have trouble sleeping tonight.
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OH1Ogrown
Student
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: caesar]
#16206560 - 05/09/12 09:32 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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lol make sure you read about dosage before you eat a whole handful. That could end up really crazy brother.
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: OH1Ogrown]
#16206574 - 05/09/12 09:34 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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For your first time with any new fungus, go easy.
Magic or otherwise. It's possible to be allergic to a mushroom the first time you eat it, which is unusual for food allergies.
That's standard advice from any mushroom hunting guide or cookbook that covers wild mushrooms.
Reactions are extremely rare, but the possibility exists and anaphylactic shock is a bummer.
Plus, a couple grams will do you just fine I think.
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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caesar
Seeking causal knowledge
Registered: 05/08/12
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Loc: Texas
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: Doc_T]
#16206683 - 05/09/12 09:55 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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I actually ate the one big one (the one I SHOULD have cloned) about a week ago, just for that reason. Got a nice little body high for the afternoon. So, I will double check suggested dosages and exercise a little prudence. If you don't hear back in 24 hours, send for a priest.
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OH1Ogrown
Student
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: caesar]
#16206750 - 05/09/12 10:06 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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Let us know!
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: FIRST TIME GROW >_> need some help... [Re: OH1Ogrown]
#16206856 - 05/09/12 10:25 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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Ok then probably not allergic. 
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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