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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: Bridgeburner] * 1
    #16177091 - 05/03/12 03:07 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Oh, thats so edgy

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
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Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: Bridgeburner] * 2
    #16177199 - 05/03/12 03:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

They're fighting to "protect American interests". This loosely translates as "maximizing profit margins regardless to the human cost."

There is (or at least SHOULD BE) more to America than growth growth growth. All empires decline upon reaching the maximal extent of their capacity for growth and we're treating this like a race to the bottom. We seem to operate based on the unspoken assumption that there is no limit to America's capacity for growth.

TL;DR: Neoconservatives can lick my taint. Bill Kristol is the Devil.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: zappaisgod] * 2
    #16177222 - 05/03/12 03:31 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
seems like they're not fighting for liberties, because there's no real libverty. and also freedom seems to mean as the freedom to shop, watch tv and be a robot. the soldiers should come back and help fight for freedom right in the US.



To protect European wimps' rights to shop for high heels since the Europeans have long ago outsourced their own protection.




:facepalm:


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InvisibleBridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
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Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: DieCommie]
    #16177246 - 05/03/12 03:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Oh, thats so edgy



truth hurts man


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #16177255 - 05/03/12 03:37 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

A lot of it also has to do with Israel. Maintaining political chaos and fear among Muslim/Arab nations helps Israel consolidate its sovereignty over its tiny slice of land and build influence over its neighbors.

I personally like Israel though. So shoot me. I think it's A-OK that a mideastern country adheres to western ideals of liberty and individualism. I would like to drink and mingle with ladyfolks in the middle east someday and thanks to Israel, this dream may see the light of day. I just wish they would stop baiting the Palestinians and make serious, dedicated efforts toward reconciliation. Fuckin' Likuds.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #16177257 - 05/03/12 03:37 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Whoa man, its the truth?  You are so bad ass.

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: DieCommie]
    #16177341 - 05/03/12 03:54 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

cynicism won't help much. im feeling that apathy or bitter attitude is a way of dealing with this topic. like "yeah, its fucked up, we're losing our freedom but whatcha gonna do". or if you talk about it people blame different things whereas i think its all intertwined. it isnt all about israel or taliban etc, its different facets of the same source.
then again i don't know what the solution would be. the occupy movement didnt seem to achieve anything, or did it?


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OfflineKaribdis

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 33
Last seen: 8 years, 17 days
Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 2
    #16177347 - 05/03/12 03:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Comparisons with Rome and even Britain are misleading, but the United States are in the business of Empire.  This term does not need to be considered in light of Noam Chomsky's writings on it; obviously it far precedes his intellectual career and its utility goes beyond his limited, Cold War-informed usage.

J.M. Coetzee compellingly summarised the modus operandi of Empire (what one might call Ur-Empire) in his pithy, allegoric novella Waiting for the Barbarians:

"One thought alone preoccupies the submerged mind of Empire: how not to end, how not to die, how to prolong its era. By day it pursues its enemies. It is cunning and ruthless, it sends its bloodhounds everywhere. By night it feeds on images of disaster: the sack of cities, the rape of populations, pyramids of bones, acres of desolation."

Most of us at least are aware that the United States are not in the business of spreading democracy, but of spreading influence.  The United States military and its private sector suppliers are the chief powers of the world, and while U.S. military power is checked in theory by the three branches of government (and in reality by the vast ineptitude of the U.S. federal government's various competing bureaucracies), it casts a long shadow, and its purview is near impossible to escape.

Yet Empire need not be wholly malignant, and in this age of realpolitik and popularisation of information - and nuclear armament - it can never become omniscient and omnipotent.  There can exist several empires simultaneously, as there have been throughout most of the common era, and beneath these empires smaller spheres of power which expand and contract on the world stage.  The fun of the twentieth century is watching the boundaries between peoples - and thus between empires - dissolve, and speculating as to what new structures will emerge as humans launch into an era of unmitigated multiculturalism and coexistence with unprecedented and miraculous technologies.  One has a feeling that the stuffy men at the Pentagon are looking warily over their shoulders, but aren't sure yet what they're looking out for.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: Bridgeburner] * 3
    #16177402 - 05/03/12 04:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:

i think the states are a nation the world needs protection from :tinfoil:




you're just jealous of our freedoms and our blue jeans

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OfflineSoreSpore
Registered: 03/06/12
Posts: 7,481
Loc: Halfway there...
Last seen: 10 years, 27 days
Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #16177413 - 05/03/12 04:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

b0red5tiff said:

i think the states are a nation the world needs protection from :tinfoil:




you're just jealous of our freedoms and our blue jeans



No one would talk shit on America if they visited a wally world.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #16177416 - 05/03/12 04:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
They're fighting to "protect American interests".






really?

what interests would those be?

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
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Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16177423 - 05/03/12 04:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
They're fighting to "protect American interests".






really?

what interests would those be?




Maybe you'd be able to read the answer to that question if you hadn't cut off the rest of my post. :kingcrankey:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Offlineglockman
Stranger

Registered: 04/18/12
Posts: 163
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #16177470 - 05/03/12 04:30 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

It's oil and halliburton....WTF. This conspiracy BS is so old. I think we screwed up we should have taken Europe out while we were there....they have been a giant pain in the ass. All they do is talk shit and run and hide when the bullets fly. I want Dick Chenney back....so we can go back and commit genocide on all those cry baby soft Europeans....bastards !

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InvisibleDeathSpider
the living dead girl
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Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 7,118
Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #16177487 - 05/03/12 04:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Because they're having so much fun fighting themselves on their home soil, they figured to share the joy with the rest of the world.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: glockman]
    #16177489 - 05/03/12 04:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

glockman said:
It's oil and halliburton....WTF.





how much oil does the US import from Afghanistan?

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #16177494 - 05/03/12 04:37 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
They're fighting to "protect American interests".






really?

what interests would those be?




Maybe you'd be able to read the answer to that question if you hadn't cut off the rest of my post. :kingcrankey:






growth?

Iraq isnt a territory of the US, how could it be growth?

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OfflineWakeboardrB
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Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #16179079 - 05/03/12 09:39 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

We have bases in Iraq now. We have a decent relationship with them.

That's strategic growth.


--------------------
Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
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Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: WakeboardrB]
    #16179265 - 05/03/12 10:16 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

WakeboardrB said:
We have bases in Iraq now. We have a decent relationship with them.

That's strategic growth.




Afghanistan and Iraq should be official U.S. territories. Hell, it worked for Guam and Puerto Rico, why not let sad-sack oppressed Arab and Muslim nations in on the deal?

I'm actually being serious here.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #16179323 - 05/03/12 10:25 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

we are in afghanistan(al qaeda of course) for their lithium ore reserves. our plan is to fund loans through the world bank for development, and when they can't pay the loans back, the world bank will own and sell these rights to large mining companies and fresh water miners like suez and thames. their plans for development always involve making a profit to pay back the loans, so even if the country develops clean water systems, they only provide it to the people who can pay for it. soldiers are just pawns for corporate foreign interests. i do have respect for the hell the soldiers go through though.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: What are Americans fighting for overseas? [Re: WakeboardrB]
    #16179380 - 05/03/12 10:36 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

WakeboardrB said:
We have bases in Iraq now. We have a decent relationship with them.

That's strategic growth.





a decent relationship with the people we supposedly murdered by the millions


we must be using mind control rays

maybe you should read the news
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/21/iraq-rejects-us-plea-bases
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073060/Ghost-Towns-The-surreal-sight-abandoned-U-S-bases-Iraq-troops-return-home-thousands.html

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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