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 happymealplease
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 spirituality - real or a farce? 
#16144363 - 04/26/12 10:18 PM (1 year, 21 days ago) |
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i used to consider myself a spiritual person but the older i get the harder it is to believe. it's often preached by people who promise enlightenment if you follow their teachings, however gaining access to their teachings costs money. why do 100 page books that can lead to enlightenment for any open-minded individual cost $15 - $20? are the only people with open minds those with money? why not make it just a few dollars, especially when classic novels are available for that much?
and then these "leaders" tend to live in really nice areas that are secluded from the rest of society. why is that? to me a real spiritual leader would have free conferences at his/her place of residence to show people how they live because that's how you really "sell" spirituality - by showing off your actions, not by going on stages or putting words in books. anyone can do that, but not everyone has the ability to market themselves.
also, buddha once said that enlightenment is the end of suffering. if this is true, doesn't that just mean that all a person has to do to become enlightened is die? the problem is that there's no personal gain to be made from telling people this. no sex, no money, no comfort. that's what truth tends to provide for the speaker - nothing. i think that's why there isn't a lot of truth to be found in the world, and that's why i have a hard time feeling spirituality, or finding the ability to believe a person when they claim they've found "spirituality".
would love to be proven wrong someday.
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happymealplease
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i think that after a decent amount of life experience (no number set in stone) noone can really claim to have the bliss and enlightenment that spirituality seems to promise. that's likely only possible when a person has a young mind (which is envious), on good drugs that haven't gone sour yet (which is also envious), or on their deathbed and knowing a life of responsibility and expectation is behind them (which is something everyone can look forward to).
BUT
i do think a person can gain a deeper understanding of self and eventually come to terms with their own position in life and realize what they need to do to get by. not be okay with it every day, maybe not even most of the time, but be comfortable enough with self to not be at risk of being a prick to other seekers they encounter.
none of this can be completely uncovered in a book, speech, or community gathering, but if it helps a person in any way, even if the means are evil, then okay.
i guess.
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 cez
Master Puppet
Registered: 08/04/09
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Loc: Lost
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Isn't Jesus' word close to free?
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I dream reality,
Is my dream.
...By the way, which one's Pink?
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accountant
Stranger
Registered: 05/09/06
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Re: spirituality - real or a farce? [Re: cez]
#16145644 - 04/27/12 04:25 AM (1 year, 21 days ago) |
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Real and Jesus... Faith comes from asking and satisfies even the greatest intellectuals. I believe that no one actually rejects God, they just reject what they "think" God is. Real and Jesus...
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Rail_Gun
wizard
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Posts: 9,261
Loc: Knockturn Alley
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The true Jesus Christ is the mushroom. Religion will make you a slave. Spirituality that comes through the self and mushroom will set you free.
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Edited by Rail_Gun (04/27/12 05:30 AM)
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Anonymous #1
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Spirituality can be like a peculiar mushroom in Northeastern Siberia spotted like a
leopard and surmounted with a small hood. It grows in other parts of
Russia, where it is poisonous, but among the Koriaks it is simply
intoxicating. When one finds a mushroom of this kind he can sell it
for three or four reindeer. So powerful is this fungus that the
fortunate native who eats it remains drunk for several days. By a
process of transmission which I will not describe, as it might offend
fastidious persons, half a dozen individuals may successively enjoy
the effects of a single mushroom, each of them in a less degree than
his predecessor.
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46 and 2
Zen Masta
Registered: 03/02/12
Posts: 255
Loc: Texas
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Re: spirituality - real or a farce? [Re: Anonymous #1]
#16145975 - 04/27/12 08:55 AM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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Don't look at spirituality in terms of what others deem it to be. Rather, look inside yourself and ask your interior judge.
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Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom or technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams. - Tsunetomo Yamamoto
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tedthekid
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Re: spirituality - real or a farce? [Re: 46 and 2]
#16146794 - 04/27/12 02:15 PM (1 year, 20 days ago) |
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I was on my campus a few days a go and some traveling monk from Florida came up to me and started talking about Krishna Consciousness. I was really happy because I've been trying to learn about it myself. He offered me two books about it but was accepting donations. I didn't have that much money on me but gave him 10 bucks for 2 books that would go for probably triple anywhere else.
Man, you're looking at the world too much and blaming it for you inability to see truths. Sure the world is fucked...Spirituality doesn't and can't combat how fucked up the world inherently is. It's not of or about the world, though it can help people develop themselves and become better. Still, when people become spiritual, it's not like they are perfect, unless they are like a true yogi. People still have thirsts and desires and as a result do things that might be seen as not spiritually inclined. But what's wrong with that? Everyone is trying to find their own balance.
I think you're misinterpreting that Buddha quote. I think what he meant was once a person reaches enlightenment he holds the knowledge that everything here is only temporary and that we're simply in a blip of time--soon we'll move on to the next, so why suffer? With this knowledge, it's not like he's completely denouncing sex, money, and comfort--he's saying if we become enlightened we'll understand the actual general insignificance of these things, move past the suffering, and freely be able to acquire these things more peacefully.
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sadspacemonkey
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Speaking from my experience, spirituality is real, but all this "for sale" spirituality found in books and expensive retreats are all a dangerous lure for those inclined to think outside general society but not yet confident or experienced enough to follow only their own true inner voice of truth. I fell for it myself... But the deeper I fell into this world, the clearer it became to me that many of these spiritual teachers are in it for the lifestyle, the attention, and yes the money... I don't believe all of them are even aware of how entangled they are in the system they claim to trancend... Some do have good intentions... However, I find the best spiritual path is found both within and through concrete experience and actions with others through a sense of love
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Yippie
Happystance
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spirituality - real or a farce?
It's only objectively a part of reality in that people believe it and it has an impact on their thoughts and behaviors. So in the strictest sense it's real, but if you don't judge reality in terms of unprovable metaphysics - spirituality is merely a solipsistic idea for those who can't see that our shared world is more amazing than their tall tales.
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"Just living molecule to molecule"
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Anonymous #2
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what kept you alive when you were suicidal? what was it that loved you when it felt like nobody else did?
what is it that has kept you alive and enabled you to learn the things you have up until now?
maybe it's a force, not a farce
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happymealplease
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Re: spirituality - real or a farce? [Re: Anonymous #2]
#16176620 - 05/03/12 03:23 PM (1 year, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Anonymous said:
what kept you alive when you were suicidal? what was it that loved you when it felt like nobody else did?
i don't know, considering i didn't feel or see any of it.
Quote:
Anonymous said:what is it that has kept you alive and enabled you to learn the things you have up until now?
a lot of luck. genetics, environment and family social status gave me the ability to survive and learn what i've been able to up til now. when i hit a wall, what's there to pull me through? nothing but what's right there on the surface. prayer, meditation, reflection etc. don't give me anything but further insight into my own existence.
Quote:
Anonymous said:maybe it's a force, not a farce
i'm not saying there's nothing out there, but the idea of oneness/enlightenment/connection with a greater being is phoeey. if there is anything that made us i don't believe it cares much for us (and noone said our creation was intentional either - we could be some all-powerful being's screwup and it's been wallowing in its room ever since)
Edited by happymealplease (05/03/12 03:25 PM)
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
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I think you are analyzing it too much and getting a bit cynical. All of the classical spiritual texts (Upanishads, Bible, Bhagavad Gita, Buddhist canon, etc) are all freely available. When you buy a book at a bookstore, no matter what it's about, it costs money. This is normal and doesn't mean spirituality is nonsense.
Spirituality has always attracted flakes. Don't let that convince you there is nothing of value to be found, that's ridiculous. Anybody who "promises" enlightenment is a clown, that should be obvious.
FYI, "the end of suffering" doesn't refer to a chronological end of suffering (as in "my suffering ended at 4:55pm 6/29/2010") it refers to any moment in which dukkha is extinguished. We have all experienced it millions of times. The Buddha was just acknowledging that the end of suffering can and does happen, and it depends on how we conduct ourselves. Your conduct is your karma, and its consequences are karma vipakka. All these terms get butchered and badly marketed by goal-oriented, analytical western ways of thinking.
Just read a lot, forget enlightenment as a goal, and see what adds value to your life then follow up on it.
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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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owls
just let go!
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Posts: 6,415
Loc: dancing 
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Re: spirituality - real or a farce? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#16200061 - 05/08/12 04:25 PM (1 year, 9 days ago) |
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that was a legit post
happymeal, your attitude towards existing is the only farce i see around here 
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i love you ♥
you are beautiful! 
COME TOGETHER, JOIN THE PARTY!!
"what beith a man if he doth not enjoy cannabis?" 
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baltimark
fungus of mass destruction
Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 698
Loc: Maryland
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Re: spirituality - real or a farce? [Re: owls]
#16200254 - 05/08/12 05:14 PM (1 year, 9 days ago) |
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Spirituality is very real and within all of our grasp. Problem is, religiosity has tried very , very hard to fuck it up.
You want spirituality....try helping someone while expecting nothing in return. Do this on a regular basis and ask God to help you be a better person. You will be there, very simple. No church, no drug...nothing.
I'm not kidding, this works.
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There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
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owls
just let go!
Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 6,415
Loc: dancing
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Re: spirituality - real or a farce? [Re: baltimark]
#16200265 - 05/08/12 05:17 PM (1 year, 9 days ago) |
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that was great advice as well. a good part is living this way is it is very enjoyable as well. and will do amazing things for you and others you never imagined possible
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i love you ♥
you are beautiful!
COME TOGETHER, JOIN THE PARTY!!
"what beith a man if he doth not enjoy cannabis?"
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happymealplease
Stranger
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Re: spirituality - real or a farce? [Re: owls]
#16201291 - 05/08/12 09:15 PM (1 year, 9 days ago) |
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helping other people and expecting nothing is good because it can raise your status in the eyes of others, or failing that (because truly i'm not saying i'd expect people to notice and praise me) i'd just feel good for not being a bastard who takes advantage of people, or helps people and says "now where's mine?". that isn't spirituality, that's just a person being a person. if it's been labeled "spirituality" by some people then i'm a beautiful, wonderfully amazing person who is oddly unfulfilled.
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Anonymous #1
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Quote:
happymealplease said:
if it's been labeled "spirituality" by some people then i'm a beautiful, wonderfully amazing person who is oddly unfulfilled.
Spirituality in the context of immortality spans more than one lifetime. In fact we may not see a return on investment for 500 years, and who's to say that's not right?
Lurk! Withdraw! Upon them! this is the Law of the Battle of Conquest
those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.
500 years might seem unfair, but we have to take into consideration the time it might take for evidence to accumulate.
Edited by Anonymous (05/09/12 05:03 AM)
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Luddite
cognitive dissident
Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,448
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I have a theory that animals including human ancestors evolved a brain spirit interface in order to incarnate spirits to generate a conscious mind that is superior to one with only a brain as the source of the mind. Organized religion just exploits the belief that its for some ultimate purpose. I'm not sure where spirits some from. Maybe they formed and evolved in the spirit world or were produced in the physical world by animals/humans and then continued to reincarnate.
Edited by Luddite (05/16/12 05:49 PM)
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Luddite
cognitive dissident
Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,448
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Re: spirituality - real or a farce? [Re: Luddite]
#16240882 - 05/16/12 05:45 PM (1 year, 1 day ago) |
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Aether drift experiments were done before galaxies were known and before there was any big bang theory. Not surprisingly, the Einstein dingleberries remain obsessed with Einstein. The Michelson Morley experiment was not a complete null. Dayton C. Miller repeated it at different times of the year, also got a partial result and determined that the earth was traveling toward the constellation Dorrado relative to the aether. The velocity of the earth relative to the cosmic microwave background radiation was also measured. Some people consider this to be an absolute velocity and compare it to an aether drift experiment. However, the two velocities are in different directions which must mean that our big bang universe is moving through the aether which also exists in space. This means there is aether and space outside of our big bang universe which is probably infinite and eternal, ie. God didn't make existance. It always existed.
Edited by Luddite (05/16/12 05:50 PM)
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