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 ThldKrvMlkBr
Canucks hatin Canuck
Registered: 04/14/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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 Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit  [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16136552 - 04/25/12 03:37 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Its increase in suicide can be applied to almost any drug.
Yeah, especially all these new drugs dealing with the mind. Funny how at the end of every anti-depressant commercial I hear "may cause depression or thoughts of suicide", and you don't hear about it in the news. But every time a government funded researcher "finds a link" between pot and anything remotely negative it goes up everywhere for all to see.
New drugs are great eh?
I was on effexor when I was 14 and hated how it made me feel so after 4-5 weeks I took myself off of it. I went from being depressed and having anxiety to not caring about anything, not even my own safety. I drove my moms minivan into a ditch going 100k down a gravel road. I was fishtailing on purpose for fun, and laughed as I drove out unscathed (managed not to roll prolly cause i was so calm!). My friends were shitting their pants. Now I hear that your never suppose to give people that are under 18 that drug, especially not children or young teenagers because apparently suicides started rising rapidly a number of years after it became popular. Then I stopped seeing my psychiatrist because she told my mom something I did not give permission for (she asked I said no), something she was not obligated to by law or otherwise. Since then I have a real distrust in the "mind-system/industry".
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ThldKrvMlkBr
Canucks hatin Canuck
Registered: 04/14/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16136583 - 04/25/12 03:47 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Hahaha, the tylenol comparision is funny. My aunt was addicted to it. She had bad headaches for a long time and kept upping the dose until she was taking them in the tens every day. Went on for years, if she stopped taking them she would get a headache. She told me that even when she didn't feel one coming she would take some after it had gone on so long. Is that not addiction?
You can't get all your info in a book. You have to look at real life experiences to put statistics and research into context.
Why do you want to hear me say I'm wrong. Studies say this and that, I choose to believe what I believe through what I hear, read, and experience. Yes, anything can be addictive. Yes, you can be addicted without dependance. But I think dependance not properly managed always has the possibility to lead to withdrawls, which usually leads to seeking more drug to alleiviate withdrawls which is an addiction.
But sure, weed can be addictive like anything else but..
Not everything, not every fucking problem needs a fucking drug!!
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withoutawire
Bunny Lover
Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 10,921
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 16 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16136611 - 04/25/12 04:00 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
ThldKrvMlkBr said:
Hahaha, the tylenol comparision is funny. My aunt was addicted to it. She had bad headaches for a long time and kept upping the dose until she was taking them in the tens every day. Went on for years, if she stopped taking them she would get a headache. She told me that even when she didn't feel one coming she would take some after it had gone on so long. Is that not addiction?
You can't get all your info in a book. You have to look at real life experiences to put statistics and research into context.
Why do you want to hear me say I'm wrong. Studies say this and that, I choose to believe what I believe through what I hear, read, and experience. Yes, anything can be addictive. Yes, you can be addicted without dependance. But I think dependance not properly managed always has the possibility to lead to withdrawls, which usually leads to seeking more drug to alleiviate withdrawls which is an addiction.
But sure, weed can be addictive like anything else but..
Not everything, not every fucking problem needs a fucking drug!!
You clearly don't understand the definition of addiction. I don't know what to tell you other than read what I said and read a book, because you're wrong.
Addiction is a rewiring of the brain, literally... in your reward pathway...your brain tells you to do something no matter what the consequences are. Tylenol does not cause addiction and neither does GabaP. They do not work like that.
That is a crazy story about your effexor, as I said before. Not all drugs are 100% safe, but literally MILLIONS of people take SSRI's and they are very useful. Some people experience side effects, and it seems to be mostly shroomerites :P. Anyways they are have their side effects and that cannot be ignored. SSRI's are over prescribed and it sounds like you didn't need them.
Quote:
Why do you want to hear me say I'm wrong. Studies say this and that, I choose to believe what I believe through what I hear, read, and experience. Yes, anything can be addictive. Yes, you can be addicted without dependance. But I think dependance not properly managed always has the possibility to lead to withdrawls, which usually leads to seeking more drug to alleiviate withdrawls which is an addiction.
But sure, weed can be addictive like anything else but..
Not everything, not every fucking problem needs a fucking drug!!
I agree with everything you said, except that it always leads to addiction. What you stated is a way for people to become addicted, but if you look at the cold hard facts (again) you'll see many people are dependent and never become addicts to a much more intense drugs like opiates. Pain patients experience this, except it's with a very addictive drugs- opiates. GabaP does not have this same potential because it's not habit forming. It doesn't create consequences, compulsion, and suffering that addictive drugs cause. Which is essentially the definition of addiction. Once again, read what I quoted so you can learn the definition of addiction.
I absolutely agree many things don't need drugs. Therapy works FAR better than any drug. Some people like to say that's bullshit yet they have never got honest and truly do therapy nor will they admit it. They'd rather take their xanax to cure the anxiety they created from abusing xanax in the first place and shit talk therapy.
I also agree most government shit about marijuana is bullshit. That doesn't mean it's not an addictive drug for some people. It should be legal, it doesn't cause cancer, etc. That doesn't mean it's not a potentially addictive, dangerous, life destroying drug. Obviously this isn't true for 99% of marijuana users, but for some people it is. We have to be honest and realistic about drugs or else they will never be legal. Drugs have side effects and consequences that we need to recognize and educate people about so they can use drugs in a responsible way.
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ThldKrvMlkBr
Canucks hatin Canuck
Registered: 04/14/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16136614 - 04/25/12 04:01 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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So if someone compulsively takes a druge like my aunt knowing what its doing to her liver, and doesn't get high or seek help (for a long time) thats not addiction? The only difference is euphoria. Tylonal is suppose to be non-habit or dependancy forming, so what would you call it in her case? I think for her it was a form of dependancy at first that turned into routine or habit when she continued to take them at her own risk in fear of terrible headaches. Would the headaches or other physical symptoms she was subject to not constitue withdrawl? If you can't use either term in her case, what do you call it?
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ThldKrvMlkBr
Canucks hatin Canuck
Registered: 04/14/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16136630 - 04/25/12 04:13 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Addiction may be defined as the continued use of a mood altering substance or behaviour despite adverse consequences.[1] Alternatively, it may be defined as a neurological impairment leading to such behaviors[2].
Addictions can include, but are not limited to, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, exercise abuse, and gambling. Classic hallmarks of addiction include: impaired control over substances/behaviour, preoccupation with substance/behaviour, continued use despite consequences, and denial.[3] Habits and patterns associated with addiction are typically characterized by immediate gratification (short-term reward), coupled with delayed deleterious effects (long-term costs).[4] Physiological dependence occurs when the body has to adjust to the substance by incorporating the substance into its 'normal' functioning.[5] This state creates the conditions of tolerance, and withdrawal. Tolerance is the process by which the body continually adapts to the substance and requires increasingly larger amounts to achieve the original effects. Withdrawal refers to physical and psychological symptoms people experience when reducing or discontinuing a substance the body had become dependent on. Symptoms of withdrawal generally include but are not limited to anxiety, irritability, intense cravings for the substance, nausea, hallucinations, headaches, cold sweats, and tremors
Your wrong. Addiction is not necessarily the re-wiring of the brain. Thats a pretty broad term when talking about the brain, neurons, and chemical/electrical pathways anyways. Dependancy changes the brain and is linked with tolerance and withdrawl as stated above. Addiction is a behavior, or as stated above can also be a neurological impairment but doesn't have to be. Addiction can mean habit in this context. It also says above "mood altering substance or behavior". Addiction doesn't have to be mood altering, you don't need to get high. My aunt was addicted in the sense of a compulsive behavior to her own detrement to avoid symptoms (withdrawl) that get worse unless she ever increases the dose (tolerance). That is addiction. You can be addicted to anything if you compulsively do it to your own detriment.
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mexicanjewlucas
sleep, save, blow stuff up
Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 749
Loc: 
Last seen: 15 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: withoutawire]
#16136633 - 04/25/12 04:15 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
ThldKrvMlkBr said:
New drugs are great eh?
I was on effexor when I was 14 and hated how it made me feel so after 4-5 weeks I took myself off of it. I went from being depressed and having anxiety to not caring about anything, not even my own safety. I drove my moms minivan into a ditch going 100k down a gravel road. I was fishtailing on purpose for fun, and laughed as I drove out unscathed (managed not to roll prolly cause i was so calm!). My friends were shitting their pants. Now I hear that your never suppose to give people that are under 18 that drug, especially not children or young teenagers because apparently suicides started rising rapidly a number of years after it became popular. Then I stopped seeing my psychiatrist because she told my mom something I did not give permission for (she asked I said no), something she was not obligated to by law or otherwise. Since then I have a real distrust in the "mind-system/industry".
i can't understand what you are trying to say. are you saying the drug is bad because it made you act recklessly and not care about anything or are you saying the doctor that prescribed that drug is bad for not following the drugs guidelines? from what you said it sounds like your doctor did wrong and the drug effected you because of this, not the drug itself.
ALSO
i also think its law (at least in australia) that a doctor seeing someone under 18 is not restricted by doctor patient confidentiality when talking to their parents.
Quote:
withoutawire said:
Seriously read a book before you say things that aren't true. It's not a big deal that you are wrong. I say things that are wrong on this forum and I get corrected. It doesn't make me an idiot and no one cares, but what is important that when I am wrong I can admit it and learn something from it.
Listen to this guy, his advice for you sounds great.
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"We can get 2 birds stoned at once."
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ThldKrvMlkBr
Canucks hatin Canuck
Registered: 04/14/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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 Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16136637 - 04/25/12 04:16 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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haha, read a book
fuck you, get some life experience
or take a vacation so you don't have to smoke weed
you could always take this drug
hope you get good sleep tonight, i know i won't cause im all out of pot!
Edited by ThldKrvMlkBr (04/25/12 04:18 AM)
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mexicanjewlucas
sleep, save, blow stuff up
Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 749
Loc:
Last seen: 15 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16136643 - 04/25/12 04:19 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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i don't think anyone is arguing, it seems you are not winning and want to quit the discussion?
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"We can get 2 birds stoned at once."
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ThldKrvMlkBr
Canucks hatin Canuck
Registered: 04/14/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16136650 - 04/25/12 04:21 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Your confused easily eh?
This drug was prescribed in its early days, no under 18 guideline.
And yes, the doctor was wrong in Canada for breaking confidentiality.
I had a say in what she could share with my mom, it was my mom who slipped up and said something she shouldn't have known.
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ThldKrvMlkBr
Canucks hatin Canuck
Registered: 04/14/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16136652 - 04/25/12 04:22 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Your just sitting on the sidelines jonsin... er I mean withdrawlin
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mexicanjewlucas
sleep, save, blow stuff up
Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 749
Loc:
Last seen: 15 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16136660 - 04/25/12 04:24 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
ThldKrvMlkBr said:
Your confused easily eh?
This drug was prescribed in its early days, no under 18 guideline.
And yes, the doctor was wrong in Canada for breaking confidentiality.
I had a say in what she could share with my mom, it was my mom who slipped up and said something she shouldn't have known.
you are just contradicting yourself now, first it was the doctor that screwed up by telling your mother something, now its your mums fault the doctor told her something?
i'm high right now, no withdrawals here, withdrawals from marijuana take a day or two to kick in for me anyway.
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"We can get 2 birds stoned at once."
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ThldKrvMlkBr
Canucks hatin Canuck
Registered: 04/14/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: mexicanjewlucas]
#16136679 - 04/25/12 04:32 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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what are you talking about you fuckin tard
I never said the word fault, you did.
I was trying to relate why I think a lot of these mind drugs are bad.
Now I'll use the word fault, ready? Read this real slow now.
The doctor was not at fault for my careless behavior. The drugs were. She was prescribing them as she should have. Her fault was breaking confidentiality, my mom merely gave her away in conversation with me. Thus my distrust in psychiatric medicine.
Get it?
Fuckin pussy anyways "withdrawling off pot" don't smoke any B.C weed or you might not want to live a week after smoking a joint!
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ThldKrvMlkBr
Canucks hatin Canuck
Registered: 04/14/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16136695 - 04/25/12 04:37 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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id like to see what you say when you run out of your dope man..
are ya'll like, fuck man wheres the dope man?
I just can't function like this dude, ive been doin pot for 2 years now. Off to rehab dude, im such a big pot toker man
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mexicanjewlucas
sleep, save, blow stuff up
Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 749
Loc:
Last seen: 15 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16136725 - 04/25/12 05:00 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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calm down and try to discuss this rationally without resulting to insults. all your insults and stupid disrespectful comments do make you look like you know your wrong and can't argue your point clearly so you try to defend it without reason but with insults.
Quote:
ThldKrvMlkBr said:
I had a say in what she could share with my mom, it was my mom who slipped up and said something she shouldn't have known.
sorry, your mother slipped up. it wasn't her fault she just made a mistake that caused it, but its not her fault.
Quote:
ThldKrvMlkBr said:
Fuckin pussy anyways "withdrawling off pot" don't smoke any B.C weed or you might not want to live a week after smoking a joint!
not even going to comment on the first few words.
what makes you think the marijuana where you live is any better than the stuff i get? have you smoked the weed in Perth, Western Australia? do you know where it comes from? how its grown? what strain it is? its THC content? because i don't and i'm smoking a lot of it. almost every time i get a new ounce its different stuff the quality always changes, even between the same strain coming from the same mother plant. sometimes it better than the medical stuff i smoked in Santa Cruz sometimes its worse, its normally on par with the stuff i tried in Amsterdam.
you can't seriously belive your marijuana is any better than the stuff i smoke without comparing them through smoking and lab testing. if you do that proves how ignorant you are.
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"We can get 2 birds stoned at once."
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ThldKrvMlkBr
Canucks hatin Canuck
Registered: 04/14/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: mexicanjewlucas]
#16136763 - 04/25/12 05:27 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Im swearing and insulting you because your half ass coments are pissing me off. Like putting words in my mouth, telling me to read a book, baiting me by saying that im quitting cause I'm not winning as if its a contest anyways.
Recap, my points are these.
Marijuana withdrawl is non existant for most people, I havn't met a single person till today that has claimed to suffer from it.
Pot addiction doesn't need a drug just like sex or candy addiction don't.
Addiction is a behavior pattern defined in a couple ways (like said in the exerpt), and caused be different things. Its a compulsive behavior that the user continues to the users own peril.
Dependency is change in the brain/body caused repeated drug use/abuse that causes the need of the drug for the brain/body to function "normally"
Withdrawl and tolerance come from dependancy, withdrawl is the reaction to sudden removal of drug with causes various chemical imbalances leading to various symptoms. Tolerance increases with drug use with most drugs, and usually goes hand in hand with some form of withdrawl. More drugs=higher tolerance=worse withdrawl.
Exept pot and id imagine a few other drugs.
Pot tolerance is noticible but im my experience (and everyone around me) there is no withdrawl, or just slight trouble sleeping for a couple days.
Your talking out your ass talking about dopamine, maybe you should read a book or do some searches. Thats more the domain or uppers, and to a somewhat lesser extent downers and other drugs. Pot is different for a reason, it binds to different receptors that do different things, are involved in different feedback loops, and have different effects.
Sorry for calling you a pussy.
Your just a person with no will power when it comes to drugs.
If you can't handle your life without pot, get a shrink. If that doesn't work, go to rehab. You will surely be called worse names by people there for real addictions, or if you want to be sooooo presise with wording.. addictions and chemical dependancies. Sorry if I take it for granted that if we're talking drugs, that I use the two terms interchangably. Usually you can mean both and say either, although in your case I'd call it a crutch to deal with everyday life which along with your lack of knowledge and baiting me is pretty fucking pathetic.
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mexicanjewlucas
sleep, save, blow stuff up
Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 749
Loc:
Last seen: 15 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16136853 - 04/25/12 06:35 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
ThldKrvMlkBr said:
Recap, my points are these.
Marijuana withdrawl is non existant for most people, I havn't met a single person till today that has claimed to suffer from it.
thats a rather interesting comment seeing as you are trying to get people to belive that marijuana does not have withdrawal symptoms for dependent users. yet in recapping your points you tell me that "marijuana withdrawal is non existent for most people". you can't have it both ways, it either causes withdrawals or doesn't. for it to have withdrawals not everyone needs to get them, but most dependent marijuana users will go through some sort of withdrawal, it might be as minor as not being able to get to sleep but its still a withdrawal.
i'm going out for dinner now, have a nice night, day, whatever.
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"We can get 2 birds stoned at once."
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treesniper119
No one of Consequence
Registered: 08/12/08
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Loc: Underground
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: mexicanjewlucas]
#16137390 - 04/25/12 11:41 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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so....cannabis is a gateway drug to Gabapentin? (jk) 
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Sit down before fact like a little child, and be pre- pared to give up every preconceivednotion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss Nature leads, or you shall learn nothing.
--T. H. Huxley
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ThldKrvMlkBr
Canucks hatin Canuck
Registered: 04/14/12
Posts: 30
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: mexicanjewlucas]
#16137425 - 04/25/12 11:56 AM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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Blah, this isn't even interesting anymore let alone worth another post after this one.
Can't you see what it says in my quote you just took?
Marijuana withdrawl is non existant for most people, I havn't met a single person till today that has claimed to suffer from it.
if i would have typed this a couple days ago (before hearing from you) i would have said that it is non-existant for all people.
But I have a problem telling someone how they feel when I'm not that person, you know what I mean? If you are saying that you get withdrawls I'm not going to tell you otherwise, just like how I don't like other people telling me how I feel because only I know whats going on inside my head and body.
I still don't really believe that you go through real withdrawl but if you say so then fine. I think you have a routine with marijuana built into it, and when you take it away it disrupts the flow of your day. Lots of things can make it so people can't sleep well, like stress, a big event happening the next day, or being really excited about something. I don't chalk any of that up to withdrawl. I truly think its just in your head (figuratively), and the fact that doing something as simple as taking a vacation eliminates your "withdrawls" seems to back me up. Real withdrawls from a true dependancy arn't avoided by something as simple as a change in scenery or routine. They also usually involve more than just losing a bit of sleep. They happen when you stop taking the drug no matter what, except if your taking other drugs to help alleviate them. I know this first hand after experiencing opiate withdrawls when I tried quitting codeine, or even cutting my dose trying to taper off of it. The only thing that helped was being in a lot of pain from surgery, and being administered heavy duty opiates (4 different kinds) in the hospital. I went home with a bottle of tramadol and was lucky enough to completely avoid withdrawls.
I'm done now
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BigPharma
Myco-Rising
Registered: 07/22/11
Posts: 167
Last seen: 3 hours, 58 minutes
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: ThldKrvMlkBr]
#16137599 - 04/25/12 01:07 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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addiction has very little to do with dopamine. by the time the addiction is formed the active pathways have moved from the ventral to the dorsal striatum where most of the connections are glutamatergic. These pathways originate largely in the PFC. If you block dopamine in an addicted animal, that won't stop self-administration of a drug, but if you knock out PFC glutamate projections to striatum, then there is no reinstatement of drug-seeking. so the point of the story is that dopamine appears to be critical only in the early stages of forming the addiction, but the actual addiction itself is glutamate mediated.
Here's a good paper on the topic:
The glutamate homeostasis hypothesis of addiction
Nat Rev Neurosci. 2009 Aug;10(8):561-72. Epub 2009 Jul 1.
Quote:
Abstract
Addiction is associated with neuroplasticity in the corticostriatal brain circuitry that is important for guiding adaptive behaviour. The hierarchy of corticostriatal information processing that normally permits the prefrontal cortex to regulate reinforcement-seeking behaviours is impaired by chronic drug use. A failure of the prefrontal cortex to control drug-seeking behaviours can be linked to an enduring imbalance between synaptic and non-synaptic glutamate, termed glutamate homeostasis. The imbalance in glutamate homeostasis engenders changes in neuroplasticity that impair communication between the prefrontal cortex and the nucleus accumbens. Some of these pathological changes are amenable to new glutamate- and neuroplasticity-based pharmacotherapies for treating addiction.
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"There are no differences, but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference."
-William James on NO2 in 1882
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piracetam
bioanalytical chemist
Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 4,311
Loc: TX 
Last seen: 4 days, 16 hours
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Re: Scientists find anticonvulsant drug helps marijuana smokers kick the habit [Re: BigPharma]
#16137854 - 04/25/12 02:37 PM (1 year, 28 days ago) |
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you're not showing the whole picture, D1 inputs of NAc cells have a lot to do with addiction,
regardless of what phase the addiction is. otherwise, there would be no point in blocking the feedback loop that occurs in that pathway.
why would someone make a decision rooted in addiction if there was no reward involved?
obviously, there are several pathways which are connected to the NAc reward center, not just glutamate.
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"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea.
In an evolving universe, who stands still moves backwards." ~R.A. Wilson
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