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 Freedom
Will swim for food
 
Registered: 05/26/05
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 Philosophy really has changed me 
#16118370 - 04/21/12 12:44 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I didn't have many beliefs about the meaning of life or god or the nature of man growing up, I think that helped because its easier to learn than unlearn
what I mean by philosophy is basically trying to understand if there is meaning and how I should live my life and understanding where sources of unhappiness come from. stuff of that nature.
even with my lack of belief about big things philosophy has still been most helpfull as an unlearning tool. Its been very interesting watching what happens when my false conceptions go away. I find I am really much more at peace with the world. For example reading history and anthropology I realize our species is not what it pretends to be. Like the individual has the shadow they can't look at the group has its shadow it can't look at and just as accepting my own shadow has been a source of relief, accepting the societal shadow has been a source of relief.
It really is amazing how conception shapes everything.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,271
Last seen: 21 minutes, 19 seconds
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: Freedom]
#16118440 - 04/21/12 01:01 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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we are all just ideas imo. change the ideas and you change the people.
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Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.
cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.
dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.
White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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Freedom
Will swim for food
Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,024
Last seen: 21 days, 2 hours
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: blingbling]
#16118456 - 04/21/12 01:06 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I think there is more than ideas there are a lot of strong tendancies or habit of thought/feeling
I've really been surprised by how much we can change and learn through life, it keeps going like an onion they say.
edit i can't believe i just said its like an onion, I don't think its like an onion
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Edited by Freedom (04/21/12 01:08 AM)
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,271
Last seen: 21 minutes, 19 seconds
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: Freedom]
#16118477 - 04/21/12 01:13 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I think there is more than ideas there are a lot of strong tendancies or habit of thought/feeling
from my point of view thoughts and feelings are ideas. yeah, imo the whole onion metaphor is a bit cliche 
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Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.
cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.
dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.
White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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Freedom
Will swim for food
Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,024
Last seen: 21 days, 2 hours
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: blingbling]
#16118497 - 04/21/12 01:17 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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austrailians seem more laid back than americans but maybe its just the soft accent makes me feel calm.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,271
Last seen: 21 minutes, 19 seconds
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: Freedom]
#16118509 - 04/21/12 01:21 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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i think you put that comment in the wrong thread
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Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.
cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.
dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.
White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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Freedom
Will swim for food
Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,024
Last seen: 21 days, 2 hours
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: blingbling]
#16118521 - 04/21/12 01:26 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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yeah its passed my bedtime 
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 Symbols
§✪λⓡɕＨⒶŠƎƦ
Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 688
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: Freedom]
#16119080 - 04/21/12 05:23 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Philosophy. A lot of good has come from it. But it's also alienated me from many people because I am unable to relate to them in meaningful interpersonal relationships. I have many casual associates and family members, and I'm not pessimistic or judgmental in most cases. However, I can recognize the social strategies for emotional manipulation from a mile away; it's akin to peering into our communicative toolbox. Seeing it isn't uncomfortable or troubling. It's just that such perception reduces the value of most interactions.
There are beautiful exceptions, but they are few and far between.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,271
Last seen: 21 minutes, 19 seconds
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: Symbols]
#16119188 - 04/21/12 07:21 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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i don't think alienation is necessarily a product of philosophizing. imo it has more to do with the types of people who commit themselves to the study of philosophy. people who have an interest in philosophy generally poses a certain type of sensibility or disposition that makes chit-chat less interesting. these types of people are often few and far between and as a result find their interpersonal relationships wanting. hence the participation in philosophy forums such as this. there used to be places in Europe (there may still be some, i'm not sure), mostly coffee houses, where people could go and debate the issues of the day. it would be great if this kind of culture could be revitalized but i doubt that will happen within our lifetimes.
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Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.
cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.
dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.
White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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Symbols
§✪λⓡɕＨⒶŠƎƦ
Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 688
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: blingbling]
#16119206 - 04/21/12 07:50 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
people who have an interest in philosophy generally poses a certain type of sensibility or disposition that makes chit-chat less interesting.
I agree with this. Also, I think those who spend time with philosophy begin to see the basis of chit-chat and what it represents (and so choose to communicate about the raw material). For instance, talk about the weather, about sports, or about who slept with who, can often just be power exchanges, emotional reactions about politics, trading cultural norms and taboos about family news, etc. So, intuitively, I'm moved more to talk about those issues rather than Susan or the Quarterback.
Sometimes the autopilot and lack of inquisitiveness irks me, while other times I can appreciate the simplicity and diversity. Like you said, I do believe certain people are predisposed to certain types of personalities. I have a young relative who is the quintessential extrovert. Even the decorations in her room are pictures of her friends. Her points of interest in conversation are always external and "other." The philosophy types - if there is one - seem to appeal to me more because they are usually aware of which mode they operate in and are capable of adjusting what content they discuss. Whereas some other people are incapable of seeing their own makeup.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,271
Last seen: 21 minutes, 19 seconds
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: Symbols]
#16119321 - 04/21/12 09:51 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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some other people are incapable of seeing their own makeup.
i think that's exactly how the non-philosophizing types see us everyone thinks they know best (that wasn't a stab at you  ) it can be quite difficult at times, i know. most of the time when i talk to people i'll stay on the subject that they are comfortable with but i will often talk about particular studies or academic understandings of the subject which imo makes people think i'm some know it all whose totally up his own ass.
really what i'm trying to do is steer the conversation away from myself and my actual point of view. i rarely actually talk to people about how i see the world. lately i've been trying to make an effort to really listen to people even if it does seem banal as my opinion is often so far from what many people are used to that unless i tied them to a chair for a few hours i could never get my point across. better just to listen imo, at least then people will think your a nice person and not a narcissist.
Edited by blingbling (04/21/12 10:07 AM)
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Freedom
Will swim for food
Registered: 05/26/05
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: blingbling]
#16119349 - 04/21/12 10:14 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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so now you have me interested what is your point of view?
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,271
Last seen: 21 minutes, 19 seconds
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: Freedom]
#16119556 - 04/21/12 12:08 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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my point of view is largely influenced by Becker's work. read becker and you'll come a long way in understanding my point of view. also watch this lecture. i've watched it about 10 times and it still amazes me. also check out some of the work of slavoj zizek. i know this is a bit of a cop out considering this is not my work but as i said i would need to tie you to a chair for hours to get my point across and even then it would mostly be a regurgitation of becker, zizek and a few other scholars work.
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Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.
cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.
dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.
White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 year, 10 days
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: Freedom]
#16119729 - 04/21/12 12:53 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I started becoming obsessed with philosophical thought at 14. The addiction has only strengthened since then.
There are things I like about it, but there are definitely negatives. I feel pretty alienated from most everyone as they don't respond well to the things I usually think about. Sometimes it feels tiring, and I wish I could just stop thinking about these things.
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Live your Life! 
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Freedom
Will swim for food
Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,024
Last seen: 21 days, 2 hours
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: blingbling]
#16119857 - 04/21/12 01:31 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I've come to much of the same conclusions starting with the human as a weakling that is dependent on the group, how meaning and value and self esteem are used to motivate the individual.
The difference in my thoughts is that I see the reason for this not as a denial of death, but that the need for self esteem is an evolutionary adaptation that allows the society to coerce the individual into behaving according to what society wants the individual to do, and that this is how humans can adapt to environments ranging from the arctic to deserts.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,901
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: blingbling]
#16119860 - 04/21/12 01:32 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Becker, for me was like putting the final nail in a project I had been working on for a long time thinking I would never find where that last nail could possibly go.
His book escape from evil I fine especially compelling.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 year, 10 days
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: Freedom]
#16119884 - 04/21/12 01:38 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The difference in my thoughts is that I see the reason for this not as a denial of death, but that the need for self esteem is an evolutionary adaptation that allows the society to coerce the individual into behaving according to what society wants the individual to do, and that this is how humans can adapt to environments ranging from the arctic to deserts.
I think it could be both.
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Live your Life!
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Freedom
Will swim for food
Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,024
Last seen: 21 days, 2 hours
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: 4896744]
#16119906 - 04/21/12 01:44 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
iThink said:
I started becoming obsessed with philosophical thought at 14. The addiction has only strengthened since then.
There are things I like about it, but there are definitely negatives. I feel pretty alienated from most everyone as they don't respond well to the things I usually think about. Sometimes it feels tiring, and I wish I could just stop thinking about these things.
This is one of the things that seems to be changing with me recently. It started with understanding that a human could never live alone and survive, and that we evolved as a group not as individuals. This really helped me with a frustration I had with people being sheep and how they believe so much stupid shit. It doesn't excuse it and make it right (i.e. I'm not excusing the nazis), but it allows me to see it for what it is and I no longer expect humans to be different from what they are.
It also was the seed for beginning to see myself as larger than an individual, which is making me feel more connected to others.
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 year, 10 days
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: Freedom]
#16119924 - 04/21/12 01:48 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I totally don't expect anything more from people, and I don't blame them for being the way they are. I just feel kind of lonely sometimes because I receive bad responses when I try to open up with people. I think I have met four people in person who I could open up with.
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Live your Life!
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,716
Loc: The Hand
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Re: Philosophy really has changed me [Re: Freedom]
#16119929 - 04/21/12 01:50 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said:
I didn't have many beliefs about the meaning of life or god or the nature of man growing up, I think that helped because its easier to learn than unlearn
what I mean by philosophy is basically trying to understand if there is meaning and how I should live my life and understanding where sources of unhappiness come from. stuff of that nature.
even with my lack of belief about big things philosophy has still been most helpfull as an unlearning tool. Its been very interesting watching what happens when my false conceptions go away. I find I am really much more at peace with the world. For example reading history and anthropology I realize our species is not what it pretends to be. Like the individual has the shadow they can't look at the group has its shadow it can't look at and just as accepting my own shadow has been a source of relief, accepting the societal shadow has been a source of relief.
It really is amazing how conception shapes everything.
What's more amazing is you had a thread just like this 6 months ago.
Give or Take.
Sorry To Trouble You.
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Don't submit to dogma.
Edited by LunarEclipse (04/21/12 01:51 PM)
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