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 imachavel
Stranger
 
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 8,855
Loc: Florida - not listed
Last seen: 1 hour, 35 minutes
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 Re: i want to get involved  [Re: 4896744]
#16126124 - 04/22/12 10:48 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
iThink said:
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lsderp said:
mostly the way our (USA) society is structured. I dont like how everything revolves around money, and i also dont like the lack of relationship with nature. and i cant fucking stand monsanto.
Do you donate all of your excess income to those in need, and live simply off of the land? If not, you are a hypocrite.
why ask a question just to give a sarcastic answer?
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,497
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
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IMO the lifelong rebellion against the status quo is part of the status quo. Always has been and always will be. They feed off of each other to create culture and it's natural balance. But this response belongs in the philosophy forum.
So would the only way then to be opposed to the status quo be to "drop out" & live completely "off the grid" & out of contact with the majority of the population (i.e. society)? I would agree that if one only complains but doesn't actually do anything, or almost nothing, about the status quo (while even probably benefiting form it), then you could quite easily argue that person is a part of it. However, if the person actually spends their life working for real change, or as Gandhi supposedly advised, "Be the change you want to see in the world," then I don't think this to be the case.
What "real" change exactly? Nothing about the species has ever been changed. You're just dreaming to feel better. Nothing wrong with that but I'm just pointing out that it's not going to undo anything or do anything.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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imachavel
Stranger
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 8,855
Loc: Florida - not listed
Last seen: 1 hour, 35 minutes
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
I recommend getting involved with organic agriculture, either rural or urban, the latter having a ton of unexploited potential. I also recommend being involved somehow with genuine fair trade products for international-sourced goods. I would not recommend "dropping out", but rather working to change the status quo.
I also wouldn't recommend the Peace Corp. I admit I don't know anything about the organization specifically, but if it is a part of the U.S. government, then it's very possibly just reinforcing the status quo & serving the interests of U.S. imperialism & global capital... not unlike the Orwellian "National Endowment for Democracy."
very good point. Very possibly is
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: i want to get involved [Re: imachavel]
#16127382 - 04/23/12 08:05 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said:
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
lsderp said:
mostly the way our (USA) society is structured. I dont like how everything revolves around money, and i also dont like the lack of relationship with nature. and i cant fucking stand monsanto.
Do you donate all of your excess income to those in need, and live simply off of the land? If not, you are a hypocrite.
why ask a question just to give a sarcastic answer?
Calling him a hypocrite for saying one thing and doing another is sarcastic?
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Live your Life! 
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imachavel
Stranger
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 8,855
Loc: Florida - not listed
Last seen: 1 hour, 35 minutes
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Re: i want to get involved [Re: 4896744]
#16127576 - 04/23/12 10:14 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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living off the land is very hard. And honestly you are not going to save very much money, considering you still have to pay property tax, so you will be working the same, and saving a little bit on energy, and a little bit on water, and having to shit in an out house, drink rain water, use solar/power or whatever.
Does that mean it's not his and or/my right to think the government is god damn corrupt and spends my tax money to make rich people richer and bail out their bad business decisions? If I don't pay my rent because I spent my money badly do I get a 'bail out'? I don't live off the land, and the OP says he INTENDS to live off the land when he has the means to do so, I envy that
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,244
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 4 hours, 54 minutes
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Re: i want to get involved [Re: 4896744]
#16128075 - 04/23/12 01:01 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
iThink said:
I have seen many people who claim this consumerist way of life is wrong, and I have yet to witness any one take actions that fit in with this view.
He said he doesn't like the way everything revolves around money and the lack of a relationship with nature. You conclude he'd need to donate all of his excess income to the needy and live entirely off the land to not be a hypocrite. Yet where exactly is the contradiction between the problems he sees and failing to act in the ways he'd supossedly need to in order to not be judged a hypocrite? If one holds the viewpoint that everything shouldn't revolve around money, is not giving your excess income to the needy "everything revolving around money"? If one feels that there is lacking a relationship with nature, it's necessary to live "entirely off the land"?
It's marvelous that you see things in such black and white terms, even if they don't correspond to what was said, but it doesn't actually accomplish anything. And I already addressed the ridiculousness of judging someone a hypocrite simply because they just became interested in making changes but haven't perfectly embodied them yet, if that is truly the extreme to which they actually envisioned things anyway. At least you established the logical framework by which he can be labeled though! 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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lsderp
transient dimensionary
Registered: 03/05/12
Posts: 203
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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thanks for the responses guys. they are excellent food for thought.
I've been sitting on this for a while and my plan is currently this: take a sort of "test run" this summer. Find some rural land and see if i can really grow my own food and forage for a living. If it doesnt work out then i will just have to radically rethink my life plans, and go to college etc.
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Am I really all the things that are outside of me?
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HeavyToilet
The Heaviest OfThem All
Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 9,405
Loc: British Columbia
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Re: i want to get involved [Re: lsderp]
#16130641 - 04/23/12 11:27 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Do you really want to spend the rest of your life doing back breaking labor for little payoff? What are you going to do when you're old?
I don't understand why anyone would want to live such a simpleton life, when they could go to school and learn really interesting information about the world and gain valuable skills, and live a reasonably comfortable life as a result. This certainly isn't the case for every degree -- I'm in electrical engineering, and I'm looking forward to continually learning new and interesting things in science and engineering for the rest of my life.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,797
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Re: i want to get involved [Re: lsderp]
#16134485 - 04/24/12 08:01 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Again, there is plenty you can do in organic agriculture, either as an individual (or family) but still part of a sustainable ag network*, or via a cooperative. Such endeavors be either rural-based or in a more urban landscape. "Dropping out" I think is futile when you can direct your energies and be part of much greater positive change in the world. Further, you can go to school for these things as it's really taking off. Not only for the principle of a clean environment and humane treatment of animals, but as fossil fuels inevitably go up in price over the coming decades, the industrial/factory farming system will probably become a dinosaur (note: by using techniques such as direct marketing of local produce, costs can already be kept comparable for organic).
Feel free to ask me (or anyone else here who has good advice) some Qs on the subject if you'd like, including potential opportunities & organizations. I grew up on a farm and have a strong formal education in agronomy & ecology (although cell & molecular biology was my main focus). Since I graduate this semester, I will be doing a lot of visiting of organic farms, workshops, permaculture projects, sustainable ag conferences, etc. over the coming months. Sometime next year I hope to do some traveling abroad for work/study in this area as I will be meeting some people who can provide some great recommendations, who do such traveling themselves. I also can definitely see myself getting an M.S. degree in something like an integrated organic animal production scheme adaptable to an urban setting.
* Unlike the predominant system that cares only about short-term profits when making decisions (e.g. research & patents kept confidential to exclude competitors, perfectly content with violating environmental regulations if they either won't be enforced or the penalty is just a slap on the wrist, will try to send you to jail for filming their practices, aren't at all receptive to someone testing the water leaving their property), people involved with organic (or otherwise sustainable) agriculture, even if the are an individual/family in business, are as a whole much more helpful working together to share knowledge to improve efficiency (or even share equipment if practical), and improve the environmentally soundness of ag practices. They also are usually very happy to let you come visit & learn about what they do.
Quote:
Find some rural land and see if i can really grow my own food and forage for a living
This is neither as easy nor as romantic as it may seem to one who doesn't have such a background.
Edited by EntheogenicPeace (04/24/12 08:41 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,797
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Quote:
I don't understand why anyone would want to live such a simpleton life
I don't understand why someone would want to drink expensive alcohol (or rap about it, for that matter), or wear an expensive suit, or possess expensive jewelry, etc.
Quote:
when they could go to school and learn really interesting information about the world and gain valuable skills
I agree, although one can certainly learn outside of school or fail to learn while attending it.
Quote:
and live a reasonably comfortable life as a result.
Can't speak for the OP, but for me (and progressives in general), it's more a matter of impact on the environment and impact on other people. For instance, you don't have to look very hard behind the labels of most consumer good to find trade union organizers tortured & executed with U.S.-supplied arms, exploited women & children in sweatshops, pollution, loss of biodiversity-rich habitats, indigenous people forcibly displaced from their villages to make way for a big business project (often export-oriented), undocumented migrants maimed in the unsafe conditions of meat processing plants, & so forth.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,797
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Re: i want to get involved [Re: Icelander]
#16134644 - 04/24/12 08:36 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
What "real" change exactly? Nothing about the species has ever been changed. You're just dreaming to feel better. Nothing wrong with that but I'm just pointing out that it's not going to undo anything or do anything.
Technically, a species is always evolving. By real change I mean actually rolling up your sleeves & doing something instead of merely paying lip service to a nice idea. It's one thing to say you want to liberate foreign people via (war-profiteering) military action, it's quite another to demonstrate it with your spending allocations towards the millions of victims of the war, those most in need from the people you claim to be liberating due to your Christian benevolence.
Would you say to the 19th century abolitionists that they were just dreaming? Those in the West who worked to abolish Church-legitimized monarchies? Leaders of the women's suffrage movement? Coal miners who worked for improved conditions? etc.
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lsderp
transient dimensionary
Registered: 03/05/12
Posts: 203
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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Ok so this is my plan so far. I think rather than just dropping out and doing work exchanges and whatnot that i will just go to school for sustainable agriculture. This summer though i will probably take a sort of "test run" and see how hard it is to live off the land. I've read a lot about the subject so i know it's going to be difficult.
Are there any organizations i can get involved in right now though? im sick of just sitting around, waiting, watching etc. i need to act
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Am I really all the things that are outside of me?
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,797
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Re: i want to get involved [Re: lsderp]
#16135880 - 04/25/12 12:38 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Whereabouts do you live/would be going to school? How old are you? Are you finishing high school now? I'm inclined to recommended a university degree, though obviously financial concerns are very relevant. If not coming right out of high school, it could certainly still be an option, but finances and future plans would probably be even more important in this context, & you should take the next few months before deciding to enroll (check the deadlines to be sure, but I think you can enroll, at least in a public university, quite easily right up to when classes start for that semester).
I can definitely understand the needing to act part, as I feel the same way. Depending on where you live/would be going to school will impact what you can be doing, either through the school formally or employment/other involvement outside of it, but hopefully you can find something. Unfortunately for me I live/am finishing my undergraduate degrees in a conservative state and specifically where corporate agribusiness reigns supreme, so I really had nothing positive to do (that I was aware of, anyways) while attending that was viable in terms of expenses, time & such... and certainly not through the school as they would not be promoting it in any meaningful way.
P.S. You can also visit organic farms and probably volunteer there for short stints (even if just for a day) to get a feel for the things involved to see what you would be interested in. Most organic people tend to be easy to get along with in that way & would like to inform you about what they do, so just hit them up & ask (if you tried to volunteer a day on a factory farm, they would be sure you were a PETA activist trying to get film, lol). Depending on proximately to your residence and/or school, as well as their workload situation, you could even get possibly get a job there... maybe just seasonally, or whatever; you'd just have to find that out.
Edited by EntheogenicPeace (04/25/12 12:48 AM)
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lsderp
transient dimensionary
Registered: 03/05/12
Posts: 203
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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milwaukee, wisconsin. I feel like theres gotta be some urban agriculture stuff going on downtown, i just need to go out and look.
also im finishing high school, focusing on getting into uw stevens point. got a 30 on my act so im not too worried.
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Am I really all the things that are outside of me?
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Captain_Spaulding
HST
Registered: 04/25/12
Posts: 39
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: i want to get involved [Re: lsderp]
#16141837 - 04/26/12 12:10 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
lsderp said:
not yet. im strongly considering not going to college and doing just that. I dont need money, i dont want money, and i dont want to be a part of this disgusting system. Right now im just working on the skills that i will need to live off the land. I understand that its not easy. However while im a part of this filthy city i want to speak up and say what i mean. what are good venues for such a thing? I already do a lot of street art which i consider to have meaningful messages.
Your totally on the right path now if you would send me all your remaining funds and materialistic items ill despose of them properly 
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When in Rome play a fidle
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,797
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Re: i want to get involved [Re: lsderp]
#16155247 - 04/29/12 02:34 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, I think that virtually anyone coming out of high school who can get an affordable education at a public university via things like scholarships and in-state tuition should take advantage of the opportunity. I also would definitely recommend progressive people go into science & engineering fields if at all inclined and capable, rather than the humanities.
As for the school you intend to go to, it looks like they should definitely have something that you are interested in & at least have a decent commitment to being green*. If not 100% sure going in, my recommendation would be for your first year (or at least your fist semester) to take basic classes (both biology-based as well as your generals… math, foreign language, economics, other humanities) that you find interesting & that will still count towards graduation, and then from there decide specifically what you want to do as far as majors & minors after spending a semester or two talking to some other students, professors, joining a club, etc.
Also, if you have the opportunity to travel & do positive work while an undergraduate, especially if earning credits in the process, take advantage of this. I wish I had done so, or at least made a greater attempt to do so (like I said, I’m not sure how great my opportunities were for this given the political climate of our university, but I’m pretty sure I could have found something if I made a greater effort).
* http://www.uwsp.edu/sustainability/Pages/home.aspx
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