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 teknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
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 Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car.  [Re: DieCommie]
#15742403 - 01/31/12 01:56 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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If the increased mpg is significant enough it may banish many of those independent variables to the realm of trivial and insignificant.
Edited by teknix (01/31/12 02:43 PM)
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teknix
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: teknix]
#15742612 - 01/31/12 02:45 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Interestingly the hydrogen cell is putting out 37-40 mV open circuit. Is this due to the electrolytes in the water and the copper catalyst or what?
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HarveyWalbanger
Demiurge
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: teknix]
#15742819 - 01/31/12 03:40 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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is the multimeter moving at all? It produces tiny amounts voltage when you move wires in a magnetic field (like the earth's)
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teknix
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No, it's not moving, it is digital. It is at zero when not touching anything then when I touch the leads to the respective anode/cathode it says around 37-40, but only mV. I remove the leads and it reads 0.
I do know what you mean about it "jumping around", and the reading is taken after it has "settled"
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 20,247
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: teknix]
#15743219 - 01/31/12 05:26 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:
Interestingly the hydrogen cell is putting out 37-40 mV open circuit. Is this due to the electrolytes in the water and the copper catalyst or what?
Possibly; it depends a bit on the impedance of the meter. But I think it's something along the lines you suggest, yes. Anyway, 40mV is a really small signal so not something that will cause any issues or requires further attention in your plans, unless you're very curious and would like to get to the bottom of it out of sheer curiosity.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,573
Loc: Americas
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: teknix]
#15743432 - 01/31/12 06:17 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:
No, it's not moving, it is digital. It is at zero when not touching anything then when I touch the leads to the respective anode/cathode it says around 37-40, but only mV. I remove the leads and it reads 0.
I do know what you mean about it "jumping around", and the reading is taken after it has "settled"
Is this voltage aligned with or opposing the voltage supplied by the power source? I would expect it be opposing, but you styled the figure as a positive voltage so I'm not sure.
If it is in opposition to the supplied voltage, it could very well be some species, such as metals, undergoing redox reactions as the system continues to approach equilibrium after a current is applied and then removed. The supplied voltage would have changed the equilibrium oxidation of the chemical species present, so after the voltage drops back to 0, the species will proceed to react in the opposite direction, with any net difference being observed as a potential between the electrodes
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 Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: johnm214]
#15744002 - 01/31/12 08:25 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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> I think switching your method every day would mitigate a lot of those variables.
With a lot of time, proper statistics, and a 'blind' driver (that doesn't know if the 'black box' is on or off), then I would agree.
> Interestingly the hydrogen cell is putting out 37-40 mV open circuit. Is this due to the electrolytes in the water and the copper catalyst or what?
Put the cell in an ice bath and see if the voltage drops to zero as it cools down.
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teknix
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: Seuss]
#16081162 - 04/12/12 06:34 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Here is the old hydrogen generator:
Here is the larger one I am working on:
I am wondering what is the best electrolyte for electrolysis?
It is going to be powered by 2 of these 65 watt sharp solar shingles that I picked up for 69$ each:
http://www.simpleray.com/Sharp-65-Watt-Solar-Shingles-ND-65RU1F-p/1100-004.htm
As well as recieve power from a MK Sealed Gel 50 Ahr Battery, and a xantrex c-40 to boot:
Now to figure out the combiner/switch? ^.^;;
Edited by teknix (04/12/12 06:45 PM)
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,573
Loc: Americas
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: teknix] 2
#16083200 - 04/13/12 02:53 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:
I am wondering what is the best electrolyte for electrolysis?
It doesn't exist. There's many different reactions you can create and many different electrolytes you could use- the later will almost certainly depend on the former as well as your needs.
I would think you'd be better served by familiarizing yourself with first year chemistry. Not only would you understand what's going on better but you'd be able to recognize the outright frauds or ridiculous claims made by people regarding these subjects- some of which you've brought up here.
As a generaly rule- ignore any source that talks about running a car on a water fuel or using "HHO" or other chemicals that don't exist.
Really though, all you need is to not believe people untill they demonstrate their claims are correct, but trying to get that information out of "The Jounral of Youtube" is an excercise in futility. Probably be more fun just to play around with magnets, honestly.
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teknix
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: johnm214]
#16084255 - 04/13/12 12:01 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I do plan on taking chemistry, but at the same token, I shouldn't outright dismiss peoples claims because others claims that it doesn't fit into the box. That would be a false dichotomy. There were more options about how fuel efficiency could be increased using the alternator presented then "over-unity"
But I'm not using the alternator, I am just going to use the solar panels and battery to power the hydrogen generator, so how to wire it?
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teknix
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: teknix]
#16084371 - 04/13/12 12:30 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I figured out the electrolyte thing  Just need to increase the ions.
HCl (hydrochloric acid)
Hydrochloric Acid in Plastic Coated Safety Bottle, 12.1 M, Reagent ACS Grade, 2.5 L
Edited by teknix (04/13/12 01:00 PM)
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teknix
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: teknix]
#16085147 - 04/13/12 03:53 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Half-complete core:
Nearly complete core:
(just need to finish pulling tight the coils so they don't bounce around and short.)
a 1/16 hole was drilled every 1/4 inch down each side of the polycarbonate.
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unknown1123
Experimental
Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 4,456
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: teknix]
#16085798 - 04/13/12 06:21 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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--------------------
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 20,247
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: teknix]
#16087815 - 04/14/12 04:30 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:
HCl (hydrochloric acid)
Hydrochloric Acid in Plastic Coated Safety Bottle, 12.1 M, Reagent ACS Grade, 2.5 L
Instead of using an acid, you might as well dissolve some salt in the water. It's a bit less corrosive and therefore more practical to handle in an application like yours.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: koraks]
#16087975 - 04/14/12 06:24 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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> Instead of using an acid, you might as well dissolve some salt in the water.
Both HCL and salt (NaCL) are going to have the same problem... the release of corrosive (and toxic) chlorine gas. Use sodium hydroxide instead to avoid this problem. Actually, unless you are using deionized water, you probably don't need to add anything. Experiment and see.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 20,247
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: Seuss]
#16092139 - 04/15/12 05:51 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
Both HCL and salt (NaCL) are going to have the same problem... the release of corrosive (and toxic) chlorine gas.
Really? So it would create metallic sodium as well? Something tells me this is not the case. It's the water that electrolyses, not the dissolved salt.
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Seuss
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: koraks]
#16092211 - 04/15/12 06:47 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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> Really? So it would create metallic sodium as well?
Yes (think electroplating). You will also produce sodium hydroxide. Depending upon the pH, you may also produce sodium chlorate or sodium hypochlorite.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 20,247
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: Seuss]
#16095986 - 04/16/12 03:11 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> Really? So it would create metallic sodium as well?
Yes (think electroplating). You will also produce sodium hydroxide.
Only NaOH, I imagine, sine Na reacts violently with water - it would logically all convert to NaOH then.
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ReaLighTea
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: koraks]
#16135217 - 04/24/12 10:32 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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why do people like "DieCommie" try to discourage others from productive research? when you try to stray from the status quo, you get these self herding people attacking you. i generated hydrogen with tap water, baking soda, and four 3.7 volt lithium ion batteries, albeit not much, it was enough to fill a balloon over time. $4.50 a gallon of gas. $1.50 a gallon of distilled water. someone is selling gallium aluminum alloy on ebay for $60/30gm. that stuff generates HHO gas without electricity, and the alloy doesn't get exhausted until 1,000's of gallons of H2O have been dissociated. scientists are also learning how to use cobalt and phosphate (phosphoric acid + cobalt carbonate i believe would work!) in electrolysis. diecommie, in your opinion, the most efficient thing to do is do nothing at all? how anti social can you get? we can ferment natural gas from garbage, literally. natural gas is abundant. forget about the alternator. as your HHO efficiency improves, alternator resistance will become irrelevant! just be careful you don't blow the head gasket 
cobalt + phosphate experiments:
http://blip.tv/chemical-explorers/tiny-bubbles-pilot-1150780
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/07/reverse-fuel-ce/
my understanding is the best electrolyte is potassium hydroxide, and distilled water being as cheap as it is, use it. its not like it goes as fast as a gallon of gas goes, because water is much denser than gas, and the HHO goes along way. you could also get a second battery. having the solar panels goto the battery which goes to the HHO cell. there's a lot of possibilities. and i'm hearing a lot of people claiming 30% - 50% better gas milage.
please continue your research, and update. great idea with the solar panels. perhaps you might want to protect them with plexiglass shielding. never know when hail will rain down... or the wrath of kawn will flurry.
поздравлаю друг! удачи!
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"Those seen dancing were accused of insanity by those who couldn't hear the music."
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,573
Loc: Americas
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Re: Wiring Solar Panels to your car. [Re: ReaLighTea]
#16135371 - 04/24/12 11:09 PM (1 year, 27 days ago) |
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Back up those claims or take them to the conspiracy forum, please. As this is the Science forum I'd like to keep this thread out of the realm of pure prophesy and revelation.
---
My own views:
Catalysts, including those you mention, do not change the energy difference of reactant and product under any given set of conditions- at best they may lower the activation energy required to achieve that reaction or increase the rate.
The plain fact is it takes the same energy to take water to its elemental constituents as it does to do the reverse, under your given conditions.
Quote:
my understanding is the best electrolyte is potassium hydroxide, and distilled water being as cheap as it is, use it.
How is his carbonate components going to hold up to this KOH you suggest? Not very well I'd imagine.
Destilled/dionized water is hardly an electrolyte at all on the other hand, and as said previously, the notion of a best electrolyte is just silly- it will always depends on your goals and your system.
Quote:
as your HHO efficiency improves, alternator resistance will become irrelevant!
That's like saying if you pull on your bootstraps hard enough you can fly around. And what's with all you watercar guys and the weird nomenclature: HHO?
Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
Seuss said:
Both HCL and salt (NaCL) are going to have the same problem... the release of corrosive (and toxic) chlorine gas.
Really? So it would create metallic sodium as well? Something tells me this is not the case. It's the water that electrolyses, not the dissolved salt.
The electrodes will oxidize/reduce anything it has sufficient voltage to. As in other reactions, the more favorable redox reactions will occur first at the given electrodes.
You can look at the redox potentials for the various things in the reaction to figure out what will react first. In a hydrolysis you'd obviously want to choose your electrolytes so that your generating you target gasses rather than expending other thing pointlessly, even as intermediates.
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