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zappaisgod said:

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Enlil said:

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zappaisgod said:
Yes it is.  If I refuse to provide the tax money that pays for it they will prosecute me and at the very least forcibly extract my treasure.

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That's some pretty far-removed logic...and a very broad definition of "violence."

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No it isn't.  If I refuse to pay the taxes that fund it they will confiscate my treasure and/or throw me in jail.  All under the threat of a gun.  Violence.

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Icelander said:
I speculate that they are both from alien worlds and have been tied in mortal combat for eons. No one is actually dead and this battle will continue on  another plane of existence. This is why one seems dead and the other has gone missing. Their realities just leaked into our dimension for a moment in time by a freak accident.  I'm fairly sure I can base my verdict on this  information as I'm sure I can get some agreement somewhere.

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Icelander said:
All that is in the realm of possibility but we would have to know the exact confrontation in detail which we don't.  There in lies the crux of the problem for those wanting believe anything for sure at this point.  We still don't know what really went down.

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bananaman said:
Let me ask you this:  If a big dude like George comes hustling up to you in a menacing manner, like he's ready to take you down, while your just strolling back to your dad's place, wouldn't you respond much like Trayvon did?

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Diploid said:
If a big dude like George comes hustling up to you in a menacing manner, like he's ready to take you down, while your just strolling back to your dad's place, wouldn't you respond much like Trayvon did?

Maybe. Or maybe not. Either way it does not justify jumping Zimmerman, if in fact that's what happened.

But let's give Martin the benefit of the doubt for argument's sake. How plausible is it that Martin was so psychologically freaked out and scared that he was justified in attacking Zimmerman. Let's look at the facts that have come out (which I agree may turn out to be inaccurate in the end, but they're all we have to go on right now).

First, Martin was athletic and Zimmerman fat. Is it plausible that Martin felt so afraid of Zimmerman that he attacked in a freaked out rage? A man he could easily outrun and avoided the conflict entirely? Or is it more plausible that he chose not to outrun Zimmerman because he's a young guy, full of testosterone, and not running from anyone or anything. His Twitter handle was No_Limits_Nigga, or some such. That doesn't sound like a delicate, psychologically frail person.

Second, Martin apparently assaulted a bus driver recently. Is it plausible that a 17 year old 6'3" athletic young man (he was not a "child") who attacked a bus driver would then be so scared and shitting his pants that he would be justified in attacking a self-important asshole (Zimmerman) following him around and asking him questions? Or is it more likely that Martin got pissed off (not psychologically collapsed) and attacked Zimmerman as he walked back to his car because he was bad ass and going to show it. According to Zimmerman he asked "you got a problem. When Zimmerman answered "no", Martin said "well, you do now".

Third, Martin apparently had committed burglaries recently. He was found with a bag full of women's jewelery, a fancy watch, and a screwdriver in his backpack. When he was asked where he got the jewelery and watch, he said that a friend gave them to him. When asked the friend's name, he refused to give it. Is it plausible that a person who commits burglary would be afraid of a fat guy following him around and asking him questions to the point that he lost it and attacked justifiably?

Fourth, Martin apparently was a weed dealer. This is not an activity for the faint of heart or the psychologically delicate. Does it seem plausible that Martin was in such fear of a fat guy that he attacked out of uncontrollable psychological stress?

Sure, all of those things are *possible* but they just doesn't ring true to me. The image that has emerged of Martin is that of a violent thug (attacked bus driver) who deals weed (people asked him to sell "some plant" on his Facebook), and who breaks into houses and robs them (backpack with woman's jewelry, a watch, and a screwdriver), not a child with a delicate psychology.

I don't think a lot of people understand the psychology of the situation

I think most people DO understand the psychology of the situation and it's exactly why I, for one, currently favor Zimmerman's story, though I'm COMPLETELY open to another interpretation when new facts support it.

I'm not supporting either side, but I am leaning Zimmerman's way based on what information has currently come out. When the investigation is complete and all possible facts are known, ONLY THEN will I form a definitive opinion. Lynch mobs should do the same lest they get their wish and find themselves pre-convicted some day when they're not accorded due process because they've been convicted in the court of Twitter.

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Diploid said:
I completely agree with you. I wish the investigation could happen faster so we can all (including me) stop speculating and get some kind of resolution. What I fear is that no matter which way the investigation goes, people on both sides are going to be outraged.

We have to remember that even IF the investigation lets a murderer go free (in your view), we are a society of laws and due process, and we have to accept that sometimes the law let's guilty people go on technicalities on the balance that MOST of the time it works as it should.

If the law doesn't go the way you think it should, it is not justification for riots or putting out a contract on Zimmerman's life. Those things would suck every bit as much as the fact that someone is dead.

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