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 4896744
Small Town Girl
 
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 The Struggle 
#16015118 - 03/29/12 08:20 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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It seems to me that politics is basically a constant struggle in which everyone tries to obtain as many excess resources as possible for themselves. It doesn't surprise me that the unskilled will want to take from the skilled and that the skilled will want to maximize their potential. I honestly can't blame anyone for wanting more. What do you think?
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Live your Life! 
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: The Struggle [Re: 4896744]
#16015152 - 03/29/12 08:27 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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I have no problem with people wanting more. I have a problem with people who want to have more by taking it from me.
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
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I agree, but only because I am lucky enough to be skilled. If I were unskilled I would want more even if it meant taking from others.
I believe that everyone is a product of their environment, and that we really don't have any control over the way we are.
Those who are unlucky will want more at the expense of the lucky. We all want as much excess luxury as we can get.
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Live your Life!
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: The Struggle [Re: 4896744]
#16015262 - 03/29/12 08:44 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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A pretty straight forward assessment of the human condition imo. Not only in the political arena.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: The Struggle [Re: 4896744]
#16015393 - 03/29/12 09:02 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
iThink said:
I believe that everyone is a product of their environment, and that we really don't have any control over the way we are.
Wow. How sad.
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
iThink said:
I believe that everyone is a product of their environment, and that we really don't have any control over the way we are.
Wow. How sad.
I think that it helps me to be more accepting of people's disappointing behavior. Do you think people have the ability to not be products of their environment?
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Live your Life!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: The Struggle [Re: 4896744]
#16015455 - 03/29/12 09:14 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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We are all products of environment which includes culture. . No one can choose not to be human. However there might be some wiggle room for small amounts of choice.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
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I still think the choices we make are the result of things out of our control.
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Live your Life!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: The Struggle [Re: 4896744]
#16015553 - 03/29/12 09:31 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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They are certainly influenced by things out of our control. Should it be otherwise we would all be omnipotent, and that is clearly impossible. I choose to believe in free will. You may say I'm a dreamer.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Loc: underbelly
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But you are not the only one. 
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,498
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Struggle [Re: 4896744]
#16015574 - 03/29/12 09:34 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
iThink said:
I still think the choices we make are the result of things out of our control.
Possibly true in the big picture. It doesn't really matter imo as we at least have the illusion of control.
I just choose that response. 
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Chespirito
Stranger
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Re: The Struggle [Re: 4896744]
#16016038 - 03/29/12 10:49 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
iThink said:
I agree, but only because I am lucky enough to be skilled. If I were unskilled I would want more even if it meant taking from others.
Of course. Ultimately most people live with their best interests in mind, not some overarching abstract philosophy. If I were poor with no real skill to offer the US, Id of course want as much loot as I could grab. And it would be, sorry rich people, Ill have part of that.
I see nothing unreasonable about this.
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imachavel
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
They are certainly influenced by things out of our control. Should it be otherwise we would all be omnipotent, and that is clearly impossible. I choose to believe in free will. You may say I'm a dreamer.
You are a dreamer if you believe in free will and live in Afghanistan. Because great Republicans like George Bush will come in to help your freedom by removing horrible people who helped plan 9-11, like civilians, who are freed, by predator drones 
But no way dude we need more republicans in congress 
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I have a problem with people who want to have more by taking it from me.
 Sounds exactly like the typical corporate executive.
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I love how the right makes shit up about what Obama is going to do, and then scare themselves with it. - Falcon91Wolvrn03
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I have a problem with people who want to have more by taking it from me.
Sounds exactly like the typical corporate executive.
Sounds like every human I've ever met and this includes you. He said nothing about giving of his own free will.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
They are certainly influenced by things out of our control. Should it be otherwise we would all be omnipotent, and that is clearly impossible. I choose to believe in free will. You may say I'm a dreamer.
I believe I have a will, and luckily my will is strong enough to break behavioral patterns on occasion when the impact is negative enough, but I fail to see how my will is somehow "free". I didn't have any say in what environment I was born into or my DNA, and these are the components which determine our choices.
But if you get some satisfaction out of believing your will is free then more power to ya.
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Live your Life!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: The Struggle [Re: 4896744]
#16019915 - 03/30/12 06:00 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
They are certainly influenced by things out of our control. Should it be otherwise we would all be omnipotent, and that is clearly impossible. I choose to believe in free will. You may say I'm a dreamer.
I believe I have a will, and luckily my will is strong enough to break behavioral patterns on occasion when the impact is negative enough, but I fail to see how my will is somehow "free". I didn't have any say in what environment I was born into or my DNA, and these are the components which determine our choices.
But if you get some satisfaction out of believing your will is free then more power to ya.
So you accept no responsibility for anything you do?
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Registered: 09/20/05
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
They are certainly influenced by things out of our control. Should it be otherwise we would all be omnipotent, and that is clearly impossible. I choose to believe in free will. You may say I'm a dreamer.
I believe I have a will, and luckily my will is strong enough to break behavioral patterns on occasion when the impact is negative enough, but I fail to see how my will is somehow "free". I didn't have any say in what environment I was born into or my DNA, and these are the components which determine our choices.
But if you get some satisfaction out of believing your will is free then more power to ya.
So you accept no responsibility for anything you do?
Not to open this whole can of worms for the billionth time on the Shroomery, but whether one accepts responsibility for one's actions has absolutely nothing to do with the existence of free will. It's perfectly logical to see the acceptance or refusal of responsibility, through thoughts, words, and actions, as a determined pattern of behavior.
(I don't know why I jump in every time I see a free will argument, it just intrigues me to no end.) 
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Posts: 25,049
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Re: The Struggle [Re: Lion]
#16021480 - 03/30/12 11:23 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lion said:
(I don't know why I jump in every time I see a free will argument, it just intrigues me to no end.)
Maybe YOU lack freewill.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 7,658
Loc:
Last seen: 2 days, 11 hours
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Lion said:
(I don't know why I jump in every time I see a free will argument, it just intrigues me to no end.)
Maybe YOU lack freewill.
Ho ho ho, touché!
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