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OfflineHomeGrownRx
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"False Coca" possibly Euphorbia grantii, active but POISONOUS! DO NOT CONSUME!!!!!!
    #16005595 - 03/27/12 10:36 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I was given a plant from a friend which i was told was a species of Coca. The plant looked like i expected it to and i trust my friend very much. A single leaf when chewed causes an immediate mild burning/ numbing of the tongue. There is also (more importantly) a very strong, long lasting and quite enjoyable stimulating effect. I have consumed this plant several times with very clear effects. My friend has had "coca parties" where multiple people have came over and helped devour large amounts of leaves while all being quite convinced that it is coca. the high is really quite like cocaine but longer lasting with no come down.

However the plants has a thick milky latex. This is something i have never heard of coca having. Also a single leaf when chewed is incredibly strong and quite satisfying as a dose. The burning sensation in the mouth is also suspect, while also numbing most around here call it "spicy."

well i did some actual research on the plant and immediately came across this article on erowid:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/coca/coca_article1.shtml

I had a strong suspicion that this plant was not coca because of the long lasting effects, white latex and potency but now i know it is not. There is very little information on drug use of E. grantii, all im finding is a bunch of random medical uses and that it can be deadly poisinous... I have read in several places (all with little following info) that the plant is used as a stimulant by some tribes.

My question for you guys and gals is do you know anything about this plant? Maybe you know of a very similar plant that it may actually be? has anyone had any experience with it? because i know practically nothing about this plant and have read that it can be very toxic i must say, DO NOT CONSUME THIS PLANT.

Id love to see more information on this plant. there is obviously a strong and enjoyable stimulating drug in the latex. i have not seen a name of this drug mentioned anywhere. any information would be greatly appreciated.

meanwhile if it turns out that the pharmacology of this plant has not been investigated, it would be very interesting to isolate this novel stimulant. I feel that if it is a safe drug to consume, and it is isolated it will be very interesting indeed.

id love any info you may have. the top picture in the erowid article is identical to the plant i have, but ill post pictures as soon as i get a chance. its possible that it is misidentified in this paper or that i have a close relative.

it really is an interesting plant!


Edited by HomeGrownRx (03/30/12 01:18 PM)


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OfflineLeon Ferrum
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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: HomeGrownRx]
    #16005718 - 03/27/12 11:06 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

What plant are you referring to?  Synadenium grantii?  Pictures would help.


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OfflineGoOnThen
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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: Leon Ferrum] * 1
    #16006041 - 03/28/12 12:16 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I would not consume any part of this plant without a lot more research.

I have a large shrub in my garden which we have always been very careful with when pruning. Any damage to the plant and it will ooze the milky sap and not just a bit It will drip for some time. When pruning I use long handled secateurs and drop the branches onto the ground and leave them for a few days until the shrub and the pieces have stopped weeping. I then collect the pieces and dispose of them still being careful as they will weep again from the slightest damage.
The other thing about this plant is it can be very weedy any little piece dropped on the ground will survive for many weeks and will still grow roots.


This is a interesting article I found  Euphorbia grantii

Cheers
Got


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: HomeGrownRx]
    #16006189 - 03/28/12 12:55 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Great first post man, welcome to the site. I had heard that many Euphorbias were toxic to some degree but I wasn't aware that any were psychoactive. The WP article says that the latex of this plant was once used to kill cattle in war, scary stuff.


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Offlinekushfarts
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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: psi]
    #16010045 - 03/28/12 08:06 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

perhspas youre having more of a slight poisoning effect then a high effect? :shrug:

if you ask me i think youre poisoning yourself with it, this plant should not get you high from what i read.

i wouldnt consume the plant personally but you can do whatever you wish.


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OfflineHomeGrownRx
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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: kushfarts]
    #16010360 - 03/28/12 09:09 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

DO NOT CONSUME THIS PLANT

latex constituents of euphorbia grantii:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/87116827


Thanks for all of the responces.

I want to make this very clear, i only consumed this plant while i was under the impression that it was coca. now that i know that it is not coca i have no plans to consume any with out further information and more importantly isolation of the drug.

yesterday, before i did the reserach i consumed one leaf. since then my mouth has been bothering me very much. it feels as though i gurgled boiling water and my mouth looks that way. it was the initial onset of these symptoms yesterday that caused me to really question that the plant was coca. my mouth got worst and worst since my first post and took about 16 hours to start to feel any better. DO NOT CONSUME THIS PLANT.

This said, there is with out a doubt a strong and enjoyable stimulating drug within this plant. Im assuming that whatever it is in this plant that causes irritation, is effected drastically by factors such as weather and season. this is why until now the effects where described as spicy as opposed to what im currently experienceing which i would label as highly irritated and burning with tissue damage.

I have done a lot more research since my first post and have found very little. i have not found any more information regarding stimulant drug use of the plant. i did find a paper that involves an analysis of the latex of the plant, but still no talk of drugs.

Again, the only interest i have in this plant now is to extract and isolate the active drug. here is the positive experience i had with it yesterday;

I woke up at 345AM and was at work all day. I was incredibly tired after work and had required a nap before my drive home. I picked up the plant from my friends house and before driving the ten minutes it takes me to get home from there i took off one leaf and chewed it. The leaf was about 1/2" x 3" long, very thick and fleshy. the leaf itself had very little spicy texture to it at first. the milky latex that dripped from the node where the leaf was removed was collected with my finger and placed in my mouth. the volume was incredibly small something in the neighborhood of the volume of a cannabis seed (nice reference huh?)

my finger was never irritated and i did not wash my hand of any residual latex for at least 20 minutes. again at this time i was convinced this was coca. The burning in my mouth slowly started after a few minutes.

Just as the burning begins, i start to feel completely different. i went from exhausted - almost needing to slap myself to stay awake to full blown wide the fuck awake. the stimulating effect kicks in rather fast even with this oral route. now that i think of it though the route maybe more sublingual than an oral one considering the speed of onset (2-5 minutes).

Within 10 minutes of when i ate the leaf i feel a stimulation very similar to methylphenidate or cocaine. my mouth is starting to burn quite bad and so i gladly take my daily dose of hydrocodone which though rather high for myself, hardly helped stop the now painful burning in my mouth.

I originally planned to sleep as soon as i got home but now things had changed. i stayed up at least another 8 hours working with my plants and on the computer, writing my first post on this site. The high is very clear, with out too much of an egotistical super boost like you get with cocaine. its very enjoyable though after hour 4 im starting to wish that i had not taken so much because of the extreme pain. i would compare the high to at least 20-30mg of methylphenidate taken orally.

by hour 6 im starting to slowly calm down, my heart rate slows. The burning in my mouth is by no means better. This morning i get up at 345AM and my mouth is incredibly painful. its a strong burning that makes me very thirsty and i end up taking a lot more hydrocodone to deal with the pain.

now my tongue and mouth has turned white as though i burned it terribly with hot soup. the dead tissue is starting to come off and its very uncomfortable, thank god for norco.

There was no hang over from the high, and no one i know has experienced anything of the sort.

Again i do not plan to try this again and i have contacted my friend to let him know not to consume the plant and to take back cuttings that he gave away. the plant is so popular around here and everyone is convinced it is coca. many people have bought cuttings of it from my friend because of how much they liked it.

So whats next? I will do more research to find out anything i can about traditional use of this plant for stimulating effects. I will also begin to plan out laboratory procedures for isolating the drug. the paper i have attached gives some information that will be very helpful. the question is how to do bio assays on the extracts to know im on the right track with out knowing what the drug is and with out harming myself again? mice maybe...

Though it was very stupid to consume this plant i did so after being presented a lot of evidence that it was safe. i have consumed it several times without any problems until yesterday. there is with out a doubt a strong and stimulating drug within this plant. this was not a placebo.

ill try to get pictures asap, meanwhile the plant in the erowid article on the top of the page listed as euphorbia grantii is identical to what i have. i also should note i live in northern california where the author of the erowid article claimed to have ran into this plant as well.


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OfflineHomeGrownRx
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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: HomeGrownRx]
    #16010550 - 03/28/12 09:48 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

i forgot to mention the other name for what i believe this plant  is Synadenium grantii. below is a clone i received from my friend a few months ago. it is undoubtedly active. it is new growth and therefore only "spicy" - not causing massive tissue damage... ill post pics of my larger plant which is not a clone of this and did cause tissue damage, later. the older the leaf, the more latex, the spicier and stronger the effect.

i need a positive identification of this before i start my lab work. if you need more pics let me know.






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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: HomeGrownRx]
    #16011906 - 03/29/12 03:59 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

First off I'm calling bullshit on the so called "stimulant properties". There is no known alkaloids in Euphorbia that can cause this, what you felt was placebo or slight poisoning. There's alkaloids that claim to have anticonvulsant effects though.

Secondly, Your tongue has Third degree burns and you take hydrocodone to numb hte pain instead of seeking treatment for the burn. You may have done permanent damage to yourself but it's all good brah, because you think you got high. You're lucky you didn't get the sap in your eye because if you did you would be blind. Did I also mention that the sap can dissolve fingernails??!!!

I'd advise you to stop now before you hurt yourself or someone else. Do some research, not just asking on forums, and then decide if you still want to do this.

Get that fool of a friend of yours and tell him the same. If people are eating this plant then there will be problems. Him/you or whoever has a responsibility to stop them from doing so now you know what the truth is.

What I typed may of come across as harsh but you need to be told this. You're being foolish.


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OfflineHomeGrownRx
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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: karode13]
    #16012228 - 03/29/12 07:47 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

im quite aware of how foolish consuming this plant was. if you read my entire post you would realize i already have contacted my friend.

i have a degree in cellular and molecular biology, not botany otherwise im sure i would have realized that this plant was not coca regardless of all the BS surrounding it.

the antimicrobial and antiviral effects are interesting and show that this plant may be another one of many phyto gold mines.

i appreciate the warning. however please read my post (i admit they are long and i do tend to ramble...) before attacking.

meanwhile, im looking into deactivating or extracting the compounds that cause the tissue damage, via the paper i posted on scribd. a simple acetone wash seems to be the first step. time to break out the soxhlet and vacuum filters, what what!

the question right now is how to test for stimulant properties with out human bio-assay. that why i mentioned mice.

btw, i did contact the poison control center and well before then i consumed activate charcoal. meanwhile my tongue is feeling much better. always get total confirmation on a plants identity before consuming it.


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OfflineRourkeAnderson
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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: HomeGrownRx]
    #16014723 - 03/29/12 07:03 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Hey Home, don't feel like Karode is attacking you. If he really disliked you he probably wouldn't have spoken up. The harshness is warranted based on actions that may undoubtable kill you one day if continued.

It is well known that Euphorbia of any type is super toxic, so thats why the forum seems rather... peeved? :mad2:

I would set this plant aside as a potential source for a "High", or at least don't post about it. You'll end up riling people up, since it goes against common sense. The EG is a pretty protective place, we value plants highly and tend to lash out at people who appear to be just looking for another "High". :nonono:

You'll always be welcome here, but the vibe in this place isn't the same as the Psychedelic experience or mush forums; we're a little microcosm of plant loving hippies, in fact a good number of us couldn't even imagine using a plant we've cared for as an entheogen. I don't know if this helps clear anything up, but hopefully it does.

Anyways, try not to get too butthurt, we're a little aggressive sometimes, but it doesn't mean we don't like you, it's the other way around :heart:


Edit: oh, and you should punch your friend in the groin for almost poisoning you to death.


Edited by RourkeAnderson (03/29/12 07:04 PM)


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OfflineHomeGrownRx
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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: RourkeAnderson] * 1
    #16015896 - 03/29/12 10:24 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I appreciate everyone’s concern.  I too have a great deal of respect for my plants; for instance I have only once sampled my khat plants which I grew from seed. My respect for ethnos is huge; the act of growing ethno plants has incredible healing powers in its own right. Nothing makes me feel better than sitting down with my plants, watering them, pruning them and having a nice conversation.

This said, plants have many products MANY OF THEM UNDISCOVERED that can help man. The idea of isolating a new stimulant drug which appears to have no immediate negative side effects is very interesting. Newly discovered drugs such as opiorphin show great promise in killing pain without addiction or tolerance. I’ve done research concerning phytoremediation of flooded uranium mines and hope to continue to conduct scientific studies that use plants to help solve mans problems.

When I speak of doing experiments with this "false coca" I do so not in the search of some new high just for the purpose of getting fucked up. I’m investigating this plant out of pure scientific curiosity. Sure, I may dose with the drug assuming it exist etc but I am hardly the type that goes around smoking banana peels after reading about it in the anarchist cookbook...

Therefore, I would like to start a conversation regarding screening plants for psychoactive drugs and then (now since I may be on to something new) the isolation and testing of these drug(s).

This plant is used for all sorts of strange things. The strangest I’ve seen so far is the latex being placed into the open wounds of children to help them heal. I guess the antimicrobial activity of the latex makes it more helpful than not, even though it causes contact dermatitis.

If I could please get the help of a botanist to properly identify the plant I would greatly appreciate it. This really is step one. Below is a picture of my other plant which is slightly different looking but has the same effects. Euphorbium is a name given to the irritating component of some euphorbia latex. It appears to be only slightly soluble in water. Once the plant is properly identified I plan to acquire larger specimens for a proper extraction. Preliminary research makes me think that a simple water extract of the dried material may actually remove a large amount of the irritants but definitely not all. The question is what the solubility of the drug is. Is the drug an alkaloid, a peptide or who knows? Maybe a simple acid base extraction would prove fruitful.



I found one paper which uses fruit flies to test plant extracts for stimulant activity. I am ordering flies right now. The extract is added to the food of the test group. The behavior of the test flies is then compared to that of the control. Hopefully removing the bulk of the irritants will allow for this test without killing the flies. I feel much more comfortable working with fruit flies than with mice. However, I have worked with testing drugs on mice back when I was working at a biotech company. Flies sound a lot easier. I’m sure you all would appreciate reading about me accidently killing a bunch of flies vs. mice…

I’ve done more research (I’ve been very busy with work, so much to do so little time), and have found these papers. I’m in the process of reading through all of these and will report back when done.

African milkbush (Synadenium grantii Hook. f.): ethnopharmacological, chemical and morpho-anatomical aspects.
http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/20103254428.html;jsessionid=D90B9BE41E90364E990CA498695576C6

Evaluation of antimicrobial agent from leaves of Synadenium grantii
http://md1.csa.com/partners/viewrecord.php?requester=gs&collection=ENV&recid=14973050&q=Synadenium+grantii+drug&uid=791629954&setcookie=yes

Antioxidant and cytotoxic activity of the acetone extracts of root of Euphorbia hylonoma and its ellagic acid derivatives
http://www.academicjournals.org/jmpr/PDF/pdf2011/23Oct/Guo%20et%20al.pdf

Medicinal plants used by kokani tribals of Nasik district Maharashtra to cure cuts and wounds
http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/7165/1/IJTK%209%281%29%20114-115.pdf

A microtechnique for the identification of diterpene ester inflammatory toxins http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bms.1200020304/abstract

Skin irritants of the sun spurge (Euphorbia helioscopia L) http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0536.1980.tb05599.x/abstract

Euphorbium: Modern research on its active principle, resiniferatoxin, revives an ancient medicine http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002432059600567X

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphorbium

Would someone be willing to take a look at the pictures of the plants I posted and tell me what they are? For all I know they are not euphorbia grantii and are actually a well known and studied plant that has irritating latex and a strong stimulant drug.


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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: karode13]
    #16015904 - 03/29/12 10:25 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

karode13 said:
First off I'm calling bullshit on the so called "stimulant properties". There is no known alkaloids in Euphorbia that can cause this, what you felt was placebo or slight poisoning. There's alkaloids that claim to have anticonvulsant effects though.




Not to disagree on the valid safety warnings that others have made, but setting that aside for a moment I believe these arguments don't necessarily support the conclusion that the plant definitely does not contain a stimulant that may not yet have been isolated and identified (and may or may not even be an alkaloid). But even if such a chemical does exist in the plant and it's possible to separate it from the toxic constituents in a properly equipped lab, it should be made very clear from the onset of the thread that it's not something for the lay person to even consider fucking around with.

I suggest that the OP edit the thread title to make the danger more clear.
E.g: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii aka Synadenium grantii, interesting plant but DO NOT CONSUME

I believe this thread actually has great potential to help others avoid injury, since the plant apparently is out there being propagated and consumed as "coca" anyway. Surprisingly enough there don't seem to be any other threads on this plant over the long long history of this site (going by the "Similar threads" listed at the bottom). When future users who have obtained this plant and believe it to be coca are viewing other threads here on true coca, there's a good chance that this thread could be linked in the "Similar threads" for them. Then, they can necro-bump the thread and the more seasoned users can respond with raucous cries of "LOL noob" or a similar greeting. (Just kidding)


Edited by psi (03/29/12 10:30 PM)


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OfflineHomeGrownRx
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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: psi]
    #16020842 - 03/30/12 09:21 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

so the effects could be related to increased cortisol levels such as in this similar species in the below paper:

158: Physiol Behav  1993 Dec;54(6):1191-4

Feeding behavior of grazing ruminants experiencing stress.

Kronberg SL, Walker JW, Fitzgerald JA.

USDA-ARS, U.S. Sheep Experimental Station, Dubois, ID 84323.

The mechanisms underlying diet selection of ruminants are less studied than those for monogastrics. However, recent studies have shown that these mechanisms may be more similar in ruminants and monogastrics than previously believed. Food aversion learning is observed in both monogastrics and ruminants, and the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis appears to be involved in avoidance learning. Using leafy spurge (Euphorbia esula), an introduced weed whose expansion has costly ecological and economic implications in western North America, as a model for underconsumed plant species, we hypothesized that sheep experience increased cortisol levels when they first consume leafy spurge and that this may be related to their reluctance to graze it. We also hypothesized that preexposure to leafy spurge would attenuate the development of a spurge-based aversion. Correspondingly, we hypothesized that preexposed sheep would not experience increased blood cortisol levels with leafy spurge gavage during an aversion trial. None of our hypotheses were disproved by the experiments. Our results lend support to the hypothesis that stress is required for the development of conditioned taste aversions and extend it to ruminants. We suggest that activity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis is integral to food aversion learning in ruminants.


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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: HomeGrownRx]
    #16020945 - 03/30/12 09:42 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

168: Cent Afr J Med  1993 Mar;39(3):56-60

Skin irritant and tumour promoting extract from the latex of Euphorbia bougheii.

Gundidza M, Kufa A.

Department of Pharmacy, Faculty of Medicine, University of Zimbabwe, Mount Pleasant, Harare.

A crude ethylacetate extract was isolated from Euphorbia bougheii by a combination of solvent-solvent and chromatographic methods. The extract exhibited significant skin irritant activity on the mouse ear as well as a tumour promoting activity on the mouse back skin. This indicates that the use of this plant as a medicine must be discouraged since the latex extract causes cancer.


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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: HomeGrownRx]
    #16021203 - 03/30/12 10:31 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

IT'S WORSE THAN WE THOUGHT, ABORT ABORT!.

But in all seriousness, this was a pretty neat theory. You put in some good research and x'd a plant off the entheogen list. :thumbup:


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OfflineHomeGrownRx
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Re: "False Coca" Euphorbia grantii, actually quite interesting but ??? [Re: RourkeAnderson]
    #16021812 - 03/31/12 12:31 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

the cancer stuff was from another related species. i wanted to scare anyone away from trying it.

i just found a book that has this info on euphorbia grantii:

http://books.google.com/books?id=_j8ueEmakD0C&pg=PA523&lpg=PA523&dq=mau+mau+euphorbia+grantii&source=bl&ots=Zz5RQcYCu7&sig=T1Kg6Jup4HvwNFfA5aQyxBgVT7M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=n3p2T-2BA8GiiQLi6synDg&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=mau%20mau%20euphorbia%20grantii&f=false

latex applied to frog heart increases contractions then slows them.

injected extract in dogs results in higher blood pressure at first, another study claimed hypotension

used by some tribes in africa to treat heart problems

used as a fish poison

used as arrow poison

laytex is commonly used in india as an analgesic

it is also mentioned that carcinogenicity is much lower than other notable species. still scary. do not consuuuuuuuuuume!

here is the link.

BTW i thought id mention 1/3 of a new leaf, with low latex content raised my heart rate from 70 bpm during rest to 90 while still laying down within 5 minutes of ingestion, this lasted 3 hours before heart rate declined. placebo, nah.


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