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OfflineScantraxx
Wait........ what?


Registered: 04/15/08
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Depersonalization increased by meditation?
    #15978176 - 03/21/12 10:19 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I haven't meditated for a while, I was just preoccupied with other things. My anxiety is pretty constant, but the depersonalization has not been that much of a worry for a fair while until recently. I've started meditating again, just 10-20mins in the morning and night. I can't say for sure that it is the meditation but after meditating I feel very spacey right after and it happens to stay.

I am thinking that maybe the depersonalization attacks are coming back as a result of turning inward through meditation, my main reason for meditating is to cut back the anxiety seeing as it is proven to decrease grey matter in the amygdala. So it seems rather strange that depersonalization is the result of anxiety and evern more stange that it intensifies even when meditation is proven to help anxiety. The meditation has not helped the anxiety at all and the dp is worse so in turn the anxiety is worse.

I am not sure what I should do, I am making an effort to really get my life back on track as I am being supported financially by others (This can't happen forever) as I am unable to work and do not qualify for compensation. But the meditating seems to make it worse and no drugs or therapy has worked at all, everything makes it worse in the long run (no wonder I abuse opiates, alcohol and benzos gah!)

Also, if your response is to just stop trying and let go etc, I don't want to hear it.

I actually just came to post about the depersonalization and meditation but now it seems it's turned into a rant about how screwed up my life is as per usualy which is rather annoying. Anyway, don't know how much help anyone can be but may aswell post this and see some other people views.


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OfflineWhite Beard
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: Scantraxx]
    #15978195 - 03/21/12 10:26 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Stop trying and let go.
Embrace feeling distant from your personality. Your attachment to your personality is what is causing you grief. Because it is impermanent. You can never fix you because you is the problem.

It sounds like you're running out of options. You'll have to let go soon. :thumbup:


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OfflineScantraxx
Wait........ what?


Registered: 04/15/08
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: Scantraxx] * 1
    #15978207 - 03/21/12 10:28 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2191357

This article shows that meditation can cause dp/dr but it also says the anxiety is determined by how one reacts to the dp/dr. I am thinking I should push through and keep meditating and hopefully anxiety levels will drop and in turn the dp/dr will dissipate. That's what I am hoping for anyway, I already know how chronic depersonalization and derealization feels like and don't want to go through it again, but I don't want to run the risk of meditating and making it a more solid mind set.

I need a new brain! :trippingsheens:


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OfflineWhite Beard
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: Scantraxx]
    #15978223 - 03/21/12 10:32 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I definitely think meditation makes dp/dr stronger, but if you get used to it the anxiety will dissipate and there will be more of a sense of freedom. That's what I did. Then you realize dp/dr isn't a curse, but a gift.

You can do it!


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OfflineScantraxx
Wait........ what?


Registered: 04/15/08
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: White Beard]
    #15978256 - 03/21/12 10:40 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Stop trying and let go.
Embrace feeling distant from your personality. Your attachment to your personality is what is causing you grief. Because it is impermanent. You can never fix you because you is the problem.

It sounds like you're running out of options. You'll have to let go soon. :thumbup:




I was waiting for that, lol. I did let go, letting go was getting drunk daily, benzos daily and opiates whenever I could. I could feel my health detiorating but I did feel good in the process mentally (when altered of course, and residual effects sometimes)

I've never quite understood the letting go and I don't mean to anyone that can attest to letting go and thinking it has helped them but I don't think they have suffered quite as mentally as hard. I have tried to let go, I have tried not trying to let go, I have tried trying, I have simlpy not even tried, yet I don't see anything, I personally see this as an easy way for someone else to try and help when they have no other solid advice, no offense but I see it as spiritualmumbo jumbo with no backing. If I really want to let go I will take some oxy's and nod, I can't live like that though, If I could simply just let go that would be great but I don't think the neurology of our brains can make that possible, in an instant I mean anyway (of course over time).

I'm not looking for a quick fix, but trust me I would love one, I am willing to make an effort but when obstacles like these pop up it makes it very hard.

Sometimes I don't even know what I'm talking about when I rant like this, I guess that's my mind/reality dissconnect.  :um:


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OfflineWhite Beard
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: Scantraxx]
    #15978274 - 03/21/12 10:44 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

mm true that.


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OfflineScantraxx
Wait........ what?


Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 687
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: White Beard]
    #15978275 - 03/21/12 10:44 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
I definitely think meditation makes dp/dr stronger, but if you get used to it the anxiety will dissipate and there will be more of a sense of freedom. That's what I did. Then you realize dp/dr isn't a curse, but a gift.

You can do it!




I understand what you are saying, I'm sure if my anxiety wasn't present the dp/dr wouldn't worry me in the slightest (obviously, no anxiety, no worries!) So I am pretty much at a crossraods, keep meditating and hopefully anxiety levels lower and I can finally get on with my life (I realise it will take months before solid anxiolysis is achieved) or stop meditating and hopefully the dp/dr subsides and I continue wondering what they hell I can do.

The first option sounds obvious but unless you have been faced with something like this it's easy to understand how one could shy away.

By the way my meditation practise is basically concentrating on my breathing and counting out the number one on the exhale to focus my attention, nothing fancy, it's not as if I am doing a meditation that should be pushin me towards altered states.


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Invisibleblankk
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Registered: 11/04/11
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: Scantraxx] * 1
    #15978591 - 03/21/12 11:52 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Scantraxx said:
I haven't meditated for a while, I was just preoccupied with other things. My anxiety is pretty constant, but the depersonalization has not been that much of a worry for a fair while until recently. I've started meditating again, just 10-20mins in the morning and night. I can't say for sure that it is the meditation but after meditating I feel very spacey right after and it happens to stay.

I am thinking that maybe the depersonalization attacks are coming back as a result of turning inward through meditation, my main reason for meditating is to cut back the anxiety seeing as it is proven to decrease grey matter in the amygdala. So it seems rather strange that depersonalization is the result of anxiety and evern more stange that it intensifies even when meditation is proven to help anxiety. The meditation has not helped the anxiety at all and the dp is worse so in turn the anxiety is worse.

I am not sure what I should do, I am making an effort to really get my life back on track as I am being supported financially by others (This can't happen forever) as I am unable to work and do not qualify for compensation. But the meditating seems to make it worse and no drugs or therapy has worked at all, everything makes it worse in the long run (no wonder I abuse opiates, alcohol and benzos gah!)

Also, if your response is to just stop trying and let go etc, I don't want to hear it.

I actually just came to post about the depersonalization and meditation but now it seems it's turned into a rant about how screwed up my life is as per usualy which is rather annoying. Anyway, don't know how much help anyone can be but may aswell post this and see some other people views.




I'm sure the anxiety is a natural reaction to the heightened sensitivity you are experiencing.  Try to practice more grounding exercises to help adjust to the changes.  Also different types of meditation produce different results.  What type of meditation do you practice/how do you meditate? 

Meditation is quite the trip for some and has a dark side just like psychedelics, especially at retreats where you meditate 10+ hours a day.  How's feeling 'stuck out of body' for depersonalization.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: Scantraxx] * 1
    #15978670 - 03/22/12 12:06 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

there are many kinds of meditation
&
many ways of doing each kind

you can get pretty uncomfortable with a bad fitting shoe or a bad fitting meditation.

I think you need a good fitting.
in the mean time to reduce anxiety do a less taxing breathing meditation that helps you consolidate your energy with your attitude.


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~~~~~


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OfflineWhite Beard
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #15978699 - 03/22/12 12:10 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I personally like 'just sitting' meditation these days. Just sit down for a while and do nothing. Anxiety may come up, but if you don't suppress it, then it's gotta come outta you.


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OfflineLSDenthusiast
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: Scantraxx]
    #15978859 - 03/22/12 12:51 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Fuck Depersonalization.

You're constantly holding onto your identity, that sense of self inside. Letting go is about losing that sense of self, burning it all. Don't look back. It's not about not caring or letting yourself go physically by indulging in pleasures or whatever. You will no longer be in conflict with yourself. No questioning your actions. Yes there is "depersonalization" type effects, but labeling isn't going to help you. No person can help you. Only way out of something is through. Embrace it.

What do you mean by spacey? Meditation shouldn't make you more spaced out. Meditation should produce intensity and clarity. It will make your senses extremely sensitive. The clarity and intensity of the world will be shattering, like a punch to the gut.

If you truly do meditate and somehow stumble into your natural state. Not through doing techniques prescribed by religions/philosophy/psychology or whatever is popular in the new age these days. Throw all those crutches away and allow the life force that is already present in you to manifest in its own way. It wants to express itself in a unique manner. Thought and the will obstruct this, but it doesn't mean you need to eradicate thought. I'm telling you, you're in that state. Abide in that! Stop trying to be something other than what you are.

By doing this, you will go through all types of weird experiences and physical symptoms.


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OfflineWhite Beard
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: LSDenthusiast]
    #15980155 - 03/22/12 10:03 AM (1 year, 2 months ago)

What are some weird symptoms you experienced LSDenthusiast?


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OfflineLSDenthusiast
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: White Beard]
    #15980883 - 03/22/12 01:30 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

After a series of events a few years back, I began to have physical symptoms on a daily basis. Becoming stronger during meditation and afterwards.

Most common for me, is intense burning and heat in my solar plexus region and spine along with a kind of nauseous feeling. I used to enjoy eating food, now it just seems like a burden. Swallowing has become difficult at times. Food tastes very neutral too.

I'm not someone who is prone to headaches/migraines, and after those events and recently after meditation. I get intense migraines, the pain is located more in the top middle portion of my head.

Usually 1-2 hours everyday I go through a period of feeling very ill, I usually have to take a moment and stop what I'm doing to allow it to pass. It's a combination of what I described with an overall malaise feeling along with psychological effects. It's as though the senses are so sharp, and it makes the world intense. Sensory overload. In return the intensity makes me nauseous and ill. In the past sometimes on a strong psychedelic trip, I would get the similar effects.

Recently I've been getting a sharp chest pain on my left side. That's new, I have no idea why.

Some people may tell me to go get checked out. I did a year ago, because I had what I thought might have been a seizure on 3 different occasions within a short time frame. It's hard to know because you're not really fully conscious during a seizure. But at the time I also had a temperature of 104 and that may have caused the seizures. I haven't had any problems since then. Doctor recommended I get an MRI and EEG, which I did and everything came back normal.

Then again, I've had strange episodes since I was younger. I recently found out my sister has had the same episodes as I. Usually once a month or so, since I was 8. I would get this very strange feeling, along with a kind of speeding up in my head. Which made whatever was happening in the world as a kind of echo inside me. But the "me" was not present. It feels like falling into a black hole. Which then opened up to what sounds like a large gathering of people all talking at the same time. Sometimes yelling. But I can barely make out what they're saying. As a kid I remember it scaring me. I never told anyone.

It used to happen on a monthly basis for along time, but in the past 7 years or so its become much more rare after getting involved with meditation, etc. Maybe only 1-3 times a year.


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OfflineRahz
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: LSDenthusiast] * 1
    #15981475 - 03/22/12 03:51 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Edit: reply ment for Scantraxx

Meditation touches autonomous systems. Breathing techniques aren't 'natural', so maybe work on de-emphasizing your meditative form. These days when I meditate, mostly I breath the same as when I'm not meditating except I will sigh more often. Breathing is fairly autonomous and doesn't need our help much. I suppose other animals with anxiety might breathe differently, but don't suspect they work on their breathing techniques. Measured breath, and focusing on the use of specific muscles does produce results, but perhaps not the ones you have in mind. It could cause an increase in anxiety. Besides all that, meditation can draw a person to their fears.

So considering that you have anxiety, the only good use for meditation is going to be to relax. Throw out the technique every time you catch yourself using it, keep the meditation on the short side and don't expect much from it. Consider it an adjunct to exercise. I think exercise is a much better strategy for dealing with anxiety. Finding a way to break a sweat every day would probably be very helpful. Focus on slow but sure things like walking, jogging, lifting moderate weights, or whatever feels good. Not that I recommend meditation to people, but if I did I would suggest they have an established exercise routine first.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."


Edited by Rahz (03/22/12 03:54 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: LSDenthusiast] * 1
    #15982125 - 03/22/12 06:09 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LSDenthusiast said:
After a series of events a few years back, I began to have physical symptoms on a daily basis. Becoming stronger during meditation and afterwards.

Most common for me, is intense burning and heat in my solar plexus region and spine along with a kind of nauseous feeling. I used to enjoy eating food, now it just seems like a burden. Swallowing has become difficult at times. Food tastes very neutral too.

I'm not someone who is prone to headaches/migraines, and after those events and recently after meditation. I get intense migraines, the pain is located more in the top middle portion of my head.

Usually 1-2 hours everyday I go through a period of feeling very ill, I usually have to take a moment and stop what I'm doing to allow it to pass. It's a combination of what I described with an overall malaise feeling along with psychological effects. It's as though the senses are so sharp, and it makes the world intense. Sensory overload. In return the intensity makes me nauseous and ill. In the past sometimes on a strong psychedelic trip, I would get the similar effects.

Recently I've been getting a sharp chest pain on my left side. That's new, I have no idea why.

Some people may tell me to go get checked out. I did a year ago, because I had what I thought might have been a seizure on 3 different occasions within a short time frame. It's hard to know because you're not really fully conscious during a seizure. But at the time I also had a temperature of 104 and that may have caused the seizures. I haven't had any problems since then. Doctor recommended I get an MRI and EEG, which I did and everything came back normal.

Then again, I've had strange episodes since I was younger. I recently found out my sister has had the same episodes as I. Usually once a month or so, since I was 8. I would get this very strange feeling, along with a kind of speeding up in my head. Which made whatever was happening in the world as a kind of echo inside me. But the "me" was not present. It feels like falling into a black hole. Which then opened up to what sounds like a large gathering of people all talking at the same time. Sometimes yelling. But I can barely make out what they're saying. As a kid I remember it scaring me. I never told anyone.

It used to happen on a monthly basis for along time, but in the past 7 years or so its become much more rare after getting involved with meditation, etc. Maybe only 1-3 times a year.




allergies
sinusitus
nasal polyps

I'm there with you.

I would not blame meditation for the problem - age, and human genetics yes
you may need a polypectomy, I am looking for some chinese medicine but I am sure my doctor would send me to ent for polyp removal in my sinuses.


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OfflineLSDenthusiast
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #15982186 - 03/22/12 06:23 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I'm allergy free, besides being allergic to dairy and gluten which caused eczema on my hands for many years. But it cleared up fine after removing those.

I don't have any real problems. If you know my history, and the experiences I've been through all my life you wouldn't be saying those things. This all happened after a series of events when I was a monk and it completely shattered my ideas and thoughts concerning spiritual matters and how my body functions on a daily basis. I have no more questions and I am not seeking anything. There is a physical change that occurs, not psychological. It's the glands mostly. Through this process, the body goes through all types of painful experiences as it shifts. All the talk about bliss and beatitude is bullshit. Peace, yes.

I eat extremely healthy and exercise daily. I'm also fairly young. I'm not looking for medical reasons for the things I've gone through. But thank you for your input. The seizure part is totally unrelated to everything else I was talking about. I was just saying that so I wouldn't get responses saying I should go to a doctor.

These painful experiences, are well documented in the case of U.G. Krishnamurti. If you want to look into it.


Edited by LSDenthusiast (03/22/12 06:30 PM)


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OfflineWhite Beard
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: LSDenthusiast] * 1
    #15982217 - 03/22/12 06:30 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Today when I was meditating I got some shakes and then puked. It kind of felt nice. Almost like a purge.


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OfflineLSDenthusiast
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: White Beard]
    #15982250 - 03/22/12 06:37 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I've heard of shakes in people going through kundalini. I've never experienced it myself or to the point of actually puking.


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OfflineWhite Beard
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: LSDenthusiast]
    #15982290 - 03/22/12 06:47 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I've been getting shakes somewhat regularly but this is the first time I puked because of it.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Depersonalization increased by meditation? [Re: LSDenthusiast]
    #15983140 - 03/22/12 09:47 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I find there is a convergence of attitude and effort in meditation,
more of a healing than otherwise.
you don't need to push it so hard that you achieve sickness.

I am curious about you having been a monk
where was that?
what lineage?
were the teachers there good meditators?
I don't really get the whole thing about being sick from it.
yes there is the shaking energy, and some 'joy' things, but this is not a goal - you get past that.


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~~~~~


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