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 Not Quite Social
 
Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,336
Loc: Midwest
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 Re: trayvon martin shooting  [Re: Seuss]
#16515734 - 07/11/12 08:16 PM (10 months, 3 days ago) |
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With all due respect to Cervantes, first on my list of Zimmerman's bad decisions would be carrying a gun.
The person who wants to carry a gun in a city or suburb is the person who should not be permitted to carry a gun (police included). Diploid, for example, would have saved that hypothetical raped/murdered woman/child had he not been permitted to carry a gun--see here:
Quote:
Diploid said:
I'll tell you one thing this case has taught me as a Florida concealed weapon permit holder: if I ever come across a guy raping a woman or killing a child somewhere, I will IMMEDIATELY turn and run in the other direction and do my best to forget what I saw. I will not even call the cops for fear of getting involved. Tough cookies for the woman or child victim.
Can you believe the state of Florida permitted this man to carry a concealed lethal weapon?
Q: You know what the price of freedom is?
A: Tough cookies.
Nice, eh? Maybe Enlil's right when he says, "I don't think the state has an ice cube chance in hell of getting a conviction."
Maybe that's all the state of Florida has for Trayvon Martin.
Tough cookies.
Pretty contemptible.
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The People's History
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frylock91
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 8,368
Loc: Richmond, VA 
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It's called protection. Nothing at all wrong with that. Maybe one day if you find yourself in a bad situation with someone that has a gun, you'll wish you had one too. Stop acting like carrying a weapon WHILE licensed is such a bad thing.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,208
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Diploid, for example, would have saved that hypothetical raped/murdered woman/child had he not been permitted to carry a gun
Uh, no.
A year ago: With a gun I would have helped and called the cops. Without a gun, I would not have helped but would still have called the cops.
Today, after seeing how our society treats good Samaritans trying to help out their neighbors even when the law is on their side, I will not help or call the cops with or without a gun. Every man (little girl) for himself.
That is thanks to you and your ilk who think that your personal opinion of what someone should go to jail for (even when it's legal behavior like following someone) trumps the law.
I no longer have any confidence that the system works the way it says it works, so I won't be doing anything that might embroil me in anything. That goes double for helping my neighbors or volunteering for any kind of neighborhood watch. Fuck this piece of shit society of morons. 
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Not Quite Social
Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,336
Loc: Midwest
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Diploid] 1
#16515926 - 07/11/12 08:49 PM (10 months, 3 days ago) |
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Maybe you'd prefer a society where "good Samaritans" can shoot and kill black teenagers without frustratingly burdensome media and legal attention.
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The People's History
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 Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,394
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
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> Maybe you'd prefer a society where "good Samaritans" can shoot and kill black teenagers without frustratingly burdensome media and legal attention.
I prefer a society where it is legal for me to kill somebody that is trying to kill me, regardless of their age or skin color.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master
Registered: 03/11/11
Posts: 1,279
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Seuss]
#16516243 - 07/11/12 09:49 PM (10 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Today, after seeing how our society treats good Samaritans trying to help out their neighbors even when the law is on their side, I will not help or call the cops with or without a gun. Every man (little girl) for himself.
Though I strongly disagree with your choice, I definitely see the reasoning behind not wanting to get involved. But why, might I ask, would you not call the police? I don't see how you could get screwed over if you ran to a safe place and called the police.
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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor  and Ferdinand  , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,208
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: BoldAsLove]
#16516330 - 07/11/12 10:04 PM (10 months, 3 days ago) |
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I don't see how you could get screwed over if you ran to a safe place and called the police.
Neither do I. But then I'm pretty sure that Zimmerman never in his wildest dreams would have imagined that he would be facing a possible judicial death penalty at the hands of the system and an extrajudicial one at the hands of the Panthers when he agreed to help out his neighbors with their persistent burglary problems.
I will not take the chance. You, however, are free to take my place. Perhaps we will have a thread about you some day.
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,569
Loc: Americas
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Seuss]
#16516464 - 07/11/12 10:26 PM (10 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> Maybe you'd prefer a society where "good Samaritans" can shoot and kill black teenagers without frustratingly burdensome media and legal attention.
I prefer a society where it is legal for me to kill somebody that is trying to kill me, regardless of their age or skin color.
And I prefer a society where their is some safe distance between reasonable responses to aggression and criminal culpability. Its disgusting seeing so many people make claims that this was a murder because "he followed him" or "he carried a gun" when neither are illegal nor immoral.
I very much sympathize with Diploid's view, and its for this reason I don't talk to the police or involve them at all if it can be helped. I've seen first hand how people involving the police to help them with a situation end up getting screwed and regretting it. Your far more likely to be victimized by the state than criminals in my neck of the woods, yet I hear the WASP radio station host around here decrying the "no snitching" mentality he claims pervades the younger generation. Seems understandable to me: getting involved with the police or helping them very often causes someone to be hurt.
This is amongst the more important reasons for my conservative stance on politics: I want to reduce the amount of harm the state can do to people. Life is hard enough without gangs of people imposing artificial burdens on people.
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Not Quite Social
Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,336
Loc: Midwest
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: johnm214] 1
#16516603 - 07/11/12 10:53 PM (10 months, 3 days ago) |
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Knock, knock, knock! Hello!
Quote:
John said:
... getting involved with the police or helping them very often causes someone to be hurt.
Deputy George Zimmerman would disagree with you and then report you to the police. Then he might shoot you in self defense.
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The People's History
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Not Quite Social
Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,336
Loc: Midwest
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Quote:
... getting involved with the police or helping them very often causes someone to be hurt.
Ha!
I can't get over how funny this quote is! How unselfconsciously ironic! Especially after John says he is 'disgusted by other people's claims'.
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Hey, John, Trayvon Martin was "someone".
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The People's History
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Not Quite Social
Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,336
Loc: Midwest
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Seuss said, "I prefer a society where it is legal for me to kill somebody that is trying to kill me, regardless of their age or skin color."
Why set the bar so high for your preferred society? It's kinda passive of you. It's like you're not even willing to go out of your way to kill someone. I don't know what society you live in, but my society recruits teenagers, 18 & 19 year-olds, brainwashes them, trains them, arms them, then floats and flies them to the other side of the world to murder strangers. This is not only legal, it's highly funded, and celebrated by many here. You sound like you're just waiting around to narrowly escape becoming a victim. At least Zimmerman made an effort.
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The People's History
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frylock91
Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 8,368
Loc: Richmond, VA
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DeadHearts
Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,149
Loc: MICHIGAN
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: frylock91]
#16516947 - 07/11/12 11:46 PM (10 months, 3 days ago) |
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Not Quite Social
Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,336
Loc: Midwest
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: DeadHearts]
#16517048 - 07/12/12 12:05 AM (10 months, 3 days ago) |
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The People's History
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DeadHearts
Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,149
Loc: MICHIGAN
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Not Quite Social
Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1,336
Loc: Midwest
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: DeadHearts]
#16517253 - 07/12/12 12:43 AM (10 months, 3 days ago) |
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master
Registered: 03/11/11
Posts: 1,279
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: Diploid]
#16517257 - 07/12/12 12:43 AM (10 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Neither do I. But then I'm pretty sure that Zimmerman never in his wildest dreams would have imagined that he would be facing a possible judicial death penalty at the hands of the system and an extrajudicial one at the hands of the Panthers when he agreed to help out his neighbors with their persistent burglary problems.
I don't see much correlation between Zimmerman and just calling the cops. Had Zimmerman only called the police we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'm sure it could somehow end up bad for you, but the odds are 1 in a million.
I think for your own sake you'd want to do something, and the very least you could do is contact the authorities. I can only imagine what it would do to someone's psyche to let a little girl get raped and not do anything at all to stop it. I hope that you, or anyone else for that matter, are never put into that position.
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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,569
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
Not Quite Social said:
Knock, knock, knock! Hello!
Quote:
John said:
... getting involved with the police or helping them very often causes someone to be hurt.
Deputy George Zimmerman would disagree with you and then report you to the police. Then he might shoot you in self defense.
Sounds like he would have in the past. My guess is he hasn't had/known anyone who's had much experience with the authorities when he decided to start calling the police for stupid shit and volunteer to watch the neighborhood.
But then, being an idiot or an asshole and then shooting someone doesn't satisfy the elements of the offense of murder.
Quote:
Not Quite Social said:
Quote:
... getting involved with the police or helping them very often causes someone to be hurt.
Ha!
I can't get over how funny this quote is! How unselfconsciously ironic! Especially after John says he is 'disgusted by other people's claims'.
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Hey, John, Trayvon Martin was "someone".
yep, and so is zimmerman, and now they're both worse off
Quote:
Not Quite Social said:
Seuss said, "I prefer a society where it is legal for me to kill somebody that is trying to kill me, regardless of their age or skin color."
Why set the bar so high for your preferred society? It's kinda passive of you. It's like you're not even willing to go out of your way to kill someone. I don't know what society you live in, but my society recruits teenagers, 18 & 19 year-olds, brainwashes them, trains them, arms them, then floats and flies them to the other side of the world to murder strangers. This is not only legal, it's highly funded, and celebrated by many here. You sound like you're just waiting around to narrowly escape becoming a victim. At least Zimmerman made an effort.
What is the connection between this bullshit and what Seuss is talking about? You have the right to kill people trying to kill you in war just as much as you do in normal life. I don't know what kind of contradiction your trying to show, but it seems doubtful it exists.
As for your claim that your society sends 18/19 year olds out to murder people, please provide some evidence of that. Its becoming more and more clear that you use terms like "murder" when you mean kill, or intentionaly kill. While this makes your previous claims that Zimmerman was a murderer make more sense, it remains a problem that your saying things you don't mean. Especially given that Zimmerman is charged with murder, it would behoove you to speak with some percision when claiming he's guilty.
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imachavel
Stranger
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 8,709
Loc: Florida - not listed
Last seen: 2 days, 9 minutes
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: johnm214] 1
#16517709 - 07/12/12 02:12 AM (10 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
What is the connection between this bullshit and what Seuss is talking about? You have the right to kill people trying to kill you in war just as much as you do in normal life. I don't know what kind of contradiction your trying to show, but it seems doubtful it exists.
now you are arguing with the idea that, war is not entirely self defence. War is offensive. How is this similar to defending yourself from an attacker? You have the right to kill someone as much in war as you do in normal life? Wtf is normal life? War is a situation where, someone comes to hurt you, and you retaliate, even in the name of self defence, sometimes by going across an entire ocean to go fuck someone else up.
Are you saying in self defence someone can come to my door, I open it, they hit me then knock me out. Then that night I drive to their house, break in their window, come inside their house, then fucking beat the shit out of them? I'd like to think that's how it'd work it, personally, this user doesn't play games, I'll knock a guy the fuck out. But now are we still discussing what is and isn't legal? War? You really are making that comparison?
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,569
Loc: Americas
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Re: trayvon martin shooting [Re: imachavel]
#16517773 - 07/12/12 02:25 AM (10 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said:
Quote:
johnm214 said:
What is the connection between this bullshit and what Seuss is talking about? You have the right to kill people trying to kill you in war just as much as you do in normal life. I don't know what kind of contradiction your trying to show, but it seems doubtful it exists.
now you are arguing with the idea that, war is not entirely self defence. War is offensive. How is this similar to defending yourself from an attacker?
Identical to the extent it makes sense comapring international conflict with domestic incidents involving criminal law: in both cases you may defend yourself, and hence there is no contradiction.
Quote:
You have the right to kill someone as much in war as you do in normal life?
To the extent relevant, yes. You have the right to kill those trying to kill you. The international legal framework governing when wars are legal is largely based off this simple principle: wars are allowed in self defense.
Quote:
Are you saying in self defence someone can come to my door, I open it, they hit me then knock me out. Then that night I drive to their house, break in their window, come inside their house, then fucking beat the shit out of them?
no
Quote:
But now are we still discussing what is and isn't legal? War? You really are making that comparison?
No, I'm not- I think its a ridiculous issue, but then I didn't bring it up. The relevant fact is that self defense is recognized in war as well as under the US laws.
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