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 5-HT2A
Registered: 01/30/10
Posts: 1,794
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 Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms   1
#15968263 - 03/19/12 07:02 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/19/10760892-asian-leaf-kratom-making-presence-felt-in-us-emergency-rooms
When a patient showed up in a West Coast emergency room early this month suffering withdrawal from something he called "kratom," the psychiatrist on duty was forced to scramble for information. But when he looked it up, he found that the opiate-like leaf from Southeast Asia is well known in the worlds of alternative medicine and the drug culture.
What the doctor, who asked not to be named for patient confidentiality reasons, found in an Internet search were Web pages set up by dozens of companies selling kratom leaf and touting it as a way to combat fatigue, pain and depression -- even as an antidote to heroin addiction.
But in addition to its possible medicinal uses, kratom is beginning to show up in U.S. emergency rooms, with doctors saying they are dealing with people sick from taking it — especially teens who try it to get high.
"Every month somebody is trying to get a new 'safe high'," said Frank LoVecchio, medical director of the Banner Good Samaritan Poison and Drug Information Center in Phoenix, Ariz. "(Kratom) is definitely not safe."
Estimating usage of the drug is impossible, but emergency events involving kratom appear to be increasing, he said. In 2005, only two incidents were reported by poison control centers nationwide. But Banner’s center dealt with six emergencies involving kratom in 2011, he said.
As with many herbal and chemical products on the market, science and law enforcement are playing catch-up. Little research has been done to determine the risks of taking kratom, so it remains legal and unregulated in the United States.
The leaf, which is indigenous to Southeast Asia, has been around for thousands of years, and proponents argue that it is safe and effective for many maladies, while having fewer side effects and being less addictive than pharmaceutical alternatives, such as oxycodone. In small doses, they say, kratom provides an energy boost — the plant is in the coffee family — and in larger doses it creates a mellow, sedating effect, acting on the opioid receptors.
"Kratom makes people feel pain free, strong, active and optimistic," according to the Website Kratom.com. It has multiple functions, said the site, which sells kratom leaves, powder and extracts from Thailand — "as a strong and reliable herbal painkiller, to relieve depression and as a social and professional enhancer to intensify communicational skills and induce higher motivation."
Just as its safety has not been well studied, the drug has no scientifically established medical uses — though it has many enthusiastic adherents who swear by it. Testimonials in support of its ability to relieve chronic pain, depression, diabetes and other maladies surface in droves whenever kratom makes the news, as witnessed in the comments following this blog published in the Phoenix New Times in August 2011.
But even promoters warn that daily use of kratom can lead to dependence and nasty side effects.
“Long-term daily high dose kratom consumption is also reported to induce nervousness, sleeplessness, loss of libido, constipation and the darkening of skin complexion,” Kratom.com says in its "dangerous effects" section.
Although there have been no fatalities from kratom, "The known risks and dangers of Kratom overdoses include hallucinations, delusions, listlessness, tremors, aggression, constipation and nausea," the site said.
The emergency room psychiatrist said the patient who recently came in reported using kratom several times a day, every day, "because he discovered that if he stopped it he started getting withdrawal." The doctor said the man's symptoms appeared "identical to heroin withdrawal."
Upon arrival, the patient was suffering "severe depression and anxiety and emerging opiate withdrawal symptoms," including chills, aching muscles and gooseflesh, the psychiatrist said. The patient was treated to ease withdrawal symptoms and then hospitalized, according to the doctor.
Like "bath salts" and "spice" — drugs that are now illegal but were legal and trendy until law enforcers and medical researchers gathered data on their dangers -- kratom is under scrutiny, having been added to a Drug Enforcement Administration's list of "drugs and chemicals of concern."
If the DEA concludes that kratom poses a public health risk, the agency can request that the Department of Health and Human Services place it on a schedule of banned and controlled substances.
The discovery and review process is accelerating in the Internet age, said Barbara Carreno, public information officer for the DEA.
"Things used to get around by word of mouth and it took a long time," said Carreno. "Now anyone can find out about anything within a matter of minutes … so there’s a lot of experimenting with exotic things that no one had ever heard of."
Kratom is illegal in a number of countries in Europe and Asia — most notably Thailand, where much of it is produced. It is now the third most commonly used illegal drug in Thailand, according to the DEA. In that country’s drug culture, the leaf is sometimes combined with cough syrup and Coke, tranquilizers and marijuana to produce a narcotic drink called "4x100."
LoVecchio, of the Phoenix poison control center, said his encounters with kratom are skewed, by definition, because he sees only people who have suffered ill effects, not people who say they are benefiting from it. The ones he treats are typically teens too young to buy alcohol who instead turn to kratom to get high, he said.
"When we see people who take this, they sometimes get respiratory depression," said LoVecchio, similar to the effect of opiates like heroin. "What’s odd is that some of them get really, really agitated, a little combative, (with) nausea and vomiting. They usually get medication for nausea and Valium to ease the paranoia," before being sent home.
He said other users, such as recovered heroin addicts, report that the symptoms are less pronounced, probably because they have built up a tolerance to opiates.
"I would say ban it until a study proves to me that there is a benefit, for anything," LoVecchio said of kratom. "Or restrict it to certain areas, make sure you can control it, make sure people aren’t driving" while using.
For now, kratom is being vigorously marketed in the United States. Some sellers label it as "incense," claiming it is not sold for human consumption while also requiring that buyers be at least 18 years old. One variety being touted for its powerful punch is Maeng Da, which translates to “pimp grade kratom.”
As new vendors get into the market, some of established sellers are trying to encourage self-policing in the industry to avert a ban on kratom.
A Website for the Kratom Association, which claims more than 100 members, has launched a campaign to counter what it describes as harmful and irresponsible representation of the herb — censuring or reporting sellers and head shops that market it as a "legal high," target teenagers or sell kratom adulterated with illegal drugs or other harmful substances.
They are pressing for more research to establish medicinal effects even as they fight efforts to ban kratom.
In one instance, nearly 600 people signed a petition addressed to a Louisiana lawmaker who recently proposed a ban on kratom in his state. Ultimately, Sen. A.G. Crowe of Pearl River withdrew the proposal, but indicated he would call for rules preventing people under 18 from obtaining it.
"Kratom has been used for thousands of years for its medicinal properties. Kratom, when consumed, can treat depression, chronic pain, anxiety, opiate dependence, fatigue, stress and many other ailments," according letter petitioning Crowe. "Besides this it is used by many former addicts of alcohol and opiates. … Comparatively speaking, it is less addictive than coffee."
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Meteloides
Clinically Expressed
Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 2,185
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: 5-HT2A]
#15968329 - 03/19/12 07:17 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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How about we just pass a law prohibiting its sale in headshops?
Fucking headshops have been responsible for the banning of synthetic cannabinoids and "bath salts". And now, Kratom!
We just need to get our drugs out of their stores and the number of news-worthy incidents would basically fall off.
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ima kitten
meow
Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 70
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: Meteloides]
#15968418 - 03/19/12 07:44 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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god damn it. 
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  please... keep on the grass!
 
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Blindtheeye
~~ØÅëëÅØ~~
Registered: 10/03/10
Posts: 2,026
Loc: TX 
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: Meteloides]
#15968420 - 03/19/12 07:45 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Meteloides said:
How about we just pass a law prohibiting its sale in headshops?
Fucking headshops have been responsible for the banning of synthetic cannabinoids and "bath salts". And now, Kratom!
We just need to get our drugs out of their stores and the number of news-worthy incidents would basically fall off.
This ^^^
I am outraged they would attempt to ban this. Kratom is the one safe non addictive thing I can use for my chronic pain
Fuck the DEA
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A great truth cannot be communicated, it must be realized.
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ima kitten
meow
Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 70
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: Blindtheeye]
#15968471 - 03/19/12 07:57 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Blindtheeye said:
Quote:
Meteloides said:
How about we just pass a law prohibiting its sale in headshops?
Fucking headshops have been responsible for the banning of synthetic cannabinoids and "bath salts". And now, Kratom!
We just need to get our drugs out of their stores and the number of news-worthy incidents would basically fall off.
This ^^^
I am outraged they would attempt to ban this. Kratom is the one safe non addictive thing I can use for my chronic pain
Fuck the DEA
but didn't you read that article? since 2011, there have been six, count em, SIX emergency room visits regarding kratom! that is nowhere near the scale of alcohol related visits!
just kidding, of course. this is fucking bullshit. 
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please... keep on the grass!
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer
Registered: 03/04/11
Posts: 6,540
Loc: Idaho
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: ima kitten]
#15968488 - 03/19/12 08:01 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Now they're going to ban Kratom 
It's funny how right before a substance is banned, a short period beforehand there is a huge media storm and a public outburst (or so proclaims the media) against the substance. It's almost routine, and its the same pattern anytime.
Would not be surprised AT ALL if some powerful people were using the media to pull this bullshit.
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 Odd_Nonposter
Unrecognizable
Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 429
Loc: Ohio
Last seen: 1 day, 8 hours
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: Meteloides]
#15968512 - 03/19/12 08:06 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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What legally distinguishes a head shop, though? Selling smoking devices?
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Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
-Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights"
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SpecialEd
Invictus
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 3,424
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 13 days, 16 hours
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: Celestial Traveler]
#15968525 - 03/19/12 08:08 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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headshops piss me off, I knew what kratom went for on the net, but when I was spontaneously wanting to do some the same day I got the hankering, I found a shop in town, drove out there, and they're selling ounces for sixty bucks. I'm like that's gonna kill me because I know I could get about a half pound for that on the net.
And dude's all like, but the thing about that, you gotta wait for shipping. Oh and get this, they were selling kratom energy drinks for twenty dollars apiece!
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"This act is a bore but it makes me who I am..."
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_/l_l\_
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eLShaMukO
from couch potato to sex tornado
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1,566
Loc: far away
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: SpecialEd]
#15968571 - 03/19/12 08:21 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
What’s odd is that some of them get really, really agitated, a little combative
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CounterCulturest
-Positive Mental Attitude-
Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 3,078
Loc: At yo door Nigga
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: eLShaMukO]
#15968619 - 03/19/12 08:35 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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"I would say ban it until a study proves to me that there is a benefit, for anything," LoVecchio said of kratom. "Or restrict it to certain areas, make sure you can control it, make sure people aren’t driving" while using.
It's just that easy lol. It will be easy to control, just like weed, coke and heroin were controlled...
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Shill
♋♋♋♋♋♋♋♋♋♋♋
Registered: 11/23/11
Posts: 3,205
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: CounterCulturest]
#15968703 - 03/19/12 08:51 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Delete this thread pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
No news on kratom kthx
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The countdown to the break up of the euro has officially begun.
A great financial crisis is going to erupt in Europe, and it is going to shake the world to the core.
If you were frightened by what happened back in 2008, then you are going to be absolutely horrified by what is coming next.
"You throw the sand against the wind
And the wind blows it back again."
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openmind
curious
Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 6,513
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: 5-HT2A]
#15969565 - 03/19/12 11:40 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Kratom is less addictive than coffee, it is one of the most benign herbs/plants out there, and the list of benefits goes on and on.
Kratom is hands down my favorite medicinal herb, I use it for many things from depression to aches & pains, and I know how important kratom is to many other people...It truly hurts to read things like this...And they've only become more common as of the past few months.
I agree with what a few of you have said about head shops, I would have to say head shops are no doubt one of the main culprits for bringing kratom into the light of the media.
If lawmakers moved to ban kratom from head shops and made it 18+ to purchase, that's absolutely fine with me, but there is no need to push for an outright ban.
-OM
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 utk
Ellis, Dee M.D
Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 461
Last seen: 1 minute, 35 seconds
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: Shill] 2
#15969844 - 03/20/12 12:48 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I started to unclench my fist when I read this,
"LoVecchio, of the Phoenix poison control center, said his encounters with kratom are skewed, by definition, because he sees only people who have suffered ill effects, not people who say they are benefiting from it. The ones he treats are typically teens too young to buy alcohol who instead turn to kratom to get high, he said".
But then I read,
"I would say ban it until a study proves to me that there is a benefit, for anything," LoVecchio said of kratom. "Or restrict it to certain areas, make sure you can control it, make sure people aren’t driving" while using.
What a manipulative cunt. We need to ban it so only DEA approved studies are allowed. That is going to help everything. You would think after taking rigorous science classes that this doctor would understand this. If he was mainly running into problems with minors, then why not just restrict minors from purchasing it. As they say don't bite the hand that grants your license to prescribe certain medications....
Fuck that psychiatrist that said the withdrawals were IDENTICAL to heroin. Then later in the article it says that ex heroin users say the drug isn't that as strong but maybe because they have a tolerance to opiates. It would have to have a IDENTICALLY intense high to cause IDENTICAL levels of withdrawal. The opiate component is comparable to 15-20mg of oxycodone on a strong dose of kratom like 5-7g. Sure I'll give it to him that the symptoms of withdrawal have some similarity, but the intensity is like coming off fat T-3 script at worst.
This is sensationalist bullshit. The article title is like OMG kids in the ER from new legal high! What were they even in the ED for? They took too much and got sick with a fat headache? They got a more stimulating strain and had a panic attack? They got some WD symptoms and were like OH NOES I'M BROKEN AND BROKE MAYBE THE ER HAS A SUITABLE FIX?
Only in America is 6 people having an adverse reaction a suitable sample size to spend a stupid amount of money demonizing and ruining lives over a PLANT. No wonder we graduate less scientists than so many other countries.
Here is one possibility. People are starting to use it to control their own pain after realizing it is legitimate and discontinue their more harmful oxycodone prescription. Perdue, Barr labs, or whoever is making the oxycodone/insert pain killer sees a trend and a slight drop in profits, so they pay off the new station to make sensationalist articles. Ok maybe not here's a more likely one. Law enforcement assholes try to harass some kids thinking they're high on dope and can't press charges. The kids laugh in the cops face and the cops get blue balls because they try to get hard on crime and can't finish. Cops call new stations and priests with a vendetta in mind. A bunch of stupid teens read the article and do what stupid teens already do but on kratom. Kratom gets a worse rap, the story grows legs, and before you know it the "moral majority" deem kratom a public enemy and remove our ability to relieve pain independent of the pharmaceutical cartels.
This shit makes me sick. I swear spice wasn't widely available at local shops until K2 got banned in KC and stirred up all that controversy. They think that they are doing a public service warning about it but they are really advertising it to all the wrong people. Happens over and over again I wonder if they did that on purpose.
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NWlight
Just look
Registered: 01/13/10
Posts: 10,547
Last seen: 3 minutes, 42 seconds
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: utk]
#15969903 - 03/20/12 01:03 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I wonder... how many people come in to ER for slipping with a knife while cutting a bagel. (a lot)
or come in because of burning their chin on a stove (a lot)
or..... FROM DISEASES CAUSED BY SMOKING AND DRINKING ALCOHOL
kratom? FFS
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Hilarious and inconsequential, the lot of it. Enjoy the ride. Music is medicine.  
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bryguy27007
Cosmonaut
Registered: 01/26/08
Posts: 8,239
Loc: Minnesota
Last seen: 1 hour, 35 minutes
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: NWlight]
#15970017 - 03/20/12 01:34 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Oh god. I might need to make an order soon.
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laruta_21
twat tickler
Registered: 01/19/10
Posts: 868
Last seen: 20 hours, 2 minutes
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: Blindtheeye]
#15970167 - 03/20/12 02:35 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Blindtheeye said:
Quote:
Meteloides said:
How about we just pass a law prohibiting its sale in headshops?
Fucking headshops have been responsible for the banning of synthetic cannabinoids and "bath salts". And now, Kratom!
We just need to get our drugs out of their stores and the number of news-worthy incidents would basically fall off.
I am outraged they would attempt to ban this. Kratom is the one safe non addictive thing I can use for my chronic pain
Fuck the DEA
I use kratom for chronic pain too so this shit is pissing me off. I hear that the shelf life is good so im probably going to order multiple kilos soon just incase
I
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BennyDrill
Stranger
Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 7
Last seen: 8 months, 2 days
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: bryguy27007]
#15970176 - 03/20/12 02:37 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I've always seen Kratom as a wonderful plant. For a long time it was on my "to do" list- so happens I got to finally purchase some and try it out. My subjective experience with it left a bit to be desired, but that's probably not expected when you get Kratom from a headshop as opposed to online. I felt its stimulating effects a lot more than its opiate effects.
Anyway, it really is benign, and offers a lot of beneficial uses. Too bad it'll be exploited as a mini-speedball.
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ima kitten
meow
Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 70
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: utk]
#15970182 - 03/20/12 02:40 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
utk said:
This shit makes me sick. I swear spice wasn't widely available at local shops until K2 got banned in KC and stirred up all that controversy. They think that they are doing a public service warning about it but they are really advertising it to all the wrong people. Happens over and over again I wonder if they did that on purpose.
crack cocaine comes to mind...
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please... keep on the grass!
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utk
Ellis, Dee M.D
Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 461
Last seen: 1 minute, 35 seconds
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: ima kitten]
#15970203 - 03/20/12 02:51 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Def happened with crack. There is an avalanche of cocaine entering the united states and everyone from bums to lawyers and doctors are using it. But seriously don't do it's bad. But if you are going to do it buy it from Ricky Ross and support the efforts of the CIA.
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openmind
curious
Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 6,513
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Re: Asian leaf 'kratom' making presence felt in US emergency rooms [Re: utk]
#15970331 - 03/20/12 04:02 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
utk said:
...The opiate component is comparable to 15-20mg of oxycodone on a strong dose of kratom like 5-7g. Sure I'll give it to him that the symptoms of withdrawal have some similarity, but the intensity is like coming off fat T-3 script at worst.....
Agreed....I'm pretty sensitive to kratom, and I would compare it to that at the very most, but most people find it to be comparable to even less than that. Another great and "safe" aspect of kratom, it has a "ceiling effect" with the dosage. Since one of the alkaloids is a opioid antagonists, in low amounts it doesn't have much of an effect, but if you take a large dose you will have a higher concentration of the antagonist in your system and it will start to block some of the opioid activity.
When I stopped taking kratom after 6 weeks of daily use I had absolutely no symptoms of withdraw what so ever, no cravings either, I felt better than I did before I started taking it. The worse symptoms I've heard of when it comes to kratom withdraw is feeling lethargic, headaches, insomnia, and becoming irritable easily....Which lasts a day or three.
Quote:
....Here is one possibility. People are starting to use it to control their own pain after realizing it is legitimate and discontinue their more harmful oxycodone prescription. Perdue, Barr labs, or whoever is making the oxycodone/insert pain killer sees a trend and a slight drop in profits, so they pay off the new station to make sensationalist articles. Ok maybe not here's a more likely one. Law enforcement assholes try to harass some kids thinking they're high on dope and can't press charges. The kids laugh in the cops face and the cops get blue balls because they try to get hard on crime and can't finish. Cops call new stations and priests with a vendetta in mind. A bunch of stupid teens read the article and do what stupid teens already do but on kratom. Kratom gets a worse rap, the story grows legs, and before you know it the "moral majority" deem kratom a public enemy and remove our ability to relieve pain independent of the pharmaceutical cartels.
This shit makes me sick. I swear spice wasn't widely available at local shops until K2 got banned in KC and stirred up all that controversy. They think that they are doing a public service warning about it but they are really advertising it to all the wrong people. Happens over and over again I wonder if they did that on purpose.
Exactly!...
I concur with everything you just said, completely.
-OM
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