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Invisibleveggie

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5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) * 3
    #15859940 - 02/25/12 01:00 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide)
February 21, 2012 - Huffington Post
By Scott Morgan

Do you know what your rights are when a police officer asks to search you? If you're like most people I've met in my eight years working to educate the public on this topic, then you probably don't.

It's a subject that a lot of people think they understand, but too often our perception of police power is distorted by fictional TV dramas, sensational media stories, silly urban myths, and the unfortunate fact that police themselves are legally allowed to lie to us.

It wouldn't even be such a big deal, I suppose, if our laws all made sense and our public servants always treated us as citizens first and suspects second. But thanks to the War on Drugs, nothing is ever that easy. When something as stupid as stopping people from possessing marijuana came to be considered a critical law enforcement function, innocence ceased to protect people against police harassment. From the streets of the Bronx to the suburbs of the Nation's Capital, you never have to look hard to find victims of the bias, incompetence, and corruption that the drug war delivers on a daily basis.

Whether or not you ever break the law, you should be prepared to protect yourself and your property just in case police become suspicious of you. Let's take a look at one of the most commonly misunderstood legal situations a citizen can encounter: a police officer asking to search your belongings. Most people automatically give consent when police ask to perform a search. However, I recommend saying "no" to police searches, and here are some reasons why:

1. It's your constitutional right.

The 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects us against unreasonable searches and seizures. Unless police have strong evidence (probable cause) to believe you're involved in criminal activity, they need your permission to perform a search of you or your property.

You have the right to refuse random police searches anywhere and anytime, so long as you aren't crossing a border checkpoint or entering a secure facility like an airport. Don't be shy about standing up for your own privacy rights, especially when police are looking for evidence that could put you behind bars.

2. Refusing a search protects you if you end up in court.

It's always possible that police might search you anyway when you refuse to give consent, but that's no reason to say "yes" to the search. Basically, if there's any chance of evidence being found, agreeing to a search is like committing legal suicide, because it kills your case before you even get to court.

If you refuse a search, however, the officer will have to prove in court that there was probable cause to do a warrantless search. This will give your lawyer a good chance to win your case, but this only works if you said "no" to the search.

3. Saying "no" can prevent a search altogether.

Data on police searches are interesting, but they don't show how many searches didn't happen because a citizen said no. A non-search is a non-event that goes unrecorded, giving rise to a widespread misconception that police will always search with or without permission.

I know refusing searches works because I've been collecting stories from real police encounters. The reality is that police routinely ask for permission to search when they have absolutely no evidence of an actual crime. If you remain calm and say no, there's a good chance they'll back down, because it's a waste of time to do searches that won't hold up in court anyway.

4. Searches can waste your time and damage your property.

Do you have time to sit around while police rifle through your belongings? Police often spend 30 minutes or more on vehicle searches and even longer searching homes. You certainly can't count on officers to be careful with valuables or to put everything back where they found it. If you waive your 4th Amendment rights by agreeing to be searched, you will have few legal options if any property is damaged or missing after the search.

5. You never know what they'll find.

Are you 100 percent certain there's nothing illegal in your home or vehicle? You can never be too sure. A joint roach could stick to your shoe on the street and wind up on the floorboard. A careless acquaintance could have dropped a baggie behind the seat. Try telling a cop it isn't yours, and they'll just laugh and tell you to put your hands behind your back. If you agreed to the search, you can't challenge the evidence. But if you're innocent and you refused the search, your lawyer has a winnable case.

Remember that knowing your rights will help you protect yourself, but no amount of preparation can guarantee a good outcome in a bad situation. Your attitude and your choices before, during, and after the encounter will usually matter more than your knowledge of the law. Stay calm no matter what happens, and remember that you can always report misconduct after things settle down.

Finally, please don't be shy about sharing this information with your friends and family. Understanding and asserting your rights isn't about getting away with anything, and it isn't about disrespecting police either. These rights are the foundation of freedom in America, and they get weaker whenever we fail to exercise them.

Scott Morgan is Associate Director of FlexYourRights.org and co-creator of the film 10 Rules for Dealing with Police.


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OfflineKU5H
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: veggie]
    #15860161 - 02/25/12 02:10 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

I got pulled over a few months back while taking a friend of mine to work. An undercover police officer pulled me over because (unknowingly) one of my brakes lights was out. I pulled over immediately and I was completely calm, because I had nothing to hide. The officer approached my car and told me that he was pulling me over to let me know that one of my brakes lights was out. I thank him for letting me know and he took my license and registration and before I knew it there was two marked cars and two more undercover cars pulled up behind me.

The officer brought back my license and registration and asked me if he could search the vehicle, and I told him no. He then began to tell me about how they had the right to call in a K9 unit and walk the dog around the car, and if the dog was to bark they then had the right to search my vehicle. I told him that I understand my rights and I understand theirs as police officers, and he returned to his car.

Another officer got his German Shepard out of his unmarked car and approached my vehicle, he again explained the right to search the vehicle if the dog smelled anything. I asked him what I had done to be the subject of the search and he ignored my question. He walked to the dog around my car a total of three times while tapping on the sides telling the dog to jump up on the sides of my car to sniff (leaving scratches that I asked about and he told me would all wipe off, which a few did and few did not). After the dog did not smell anything the original officer that pulled me over called me to the back of the car and had me sign a warning for my brake light being out.

After signing the warning the officer told me that I was free to go, and then said "Can ask you a question though?" and I agree and he said "Do you have any firearms, methamphetamine,  marijuana, etc. in your vehicle" I replied with a simple "no" and he asked again if he could search my car since I "don't have anything to hide" and I replied again with a simple "no" and he replied saying "Your really not going to let me search your car after I let you off of a ticket with a warning?!" again I said "no" and starting walking to my car, he followed me and asked if he could search THREE more times before I got to my car. When I told him that I was going to leave he told me "Go ahead and leave but I'm just going to follow you down the road, pull you over again and give you ticket instead of a warning" I laughed and parked my car in the same parking lot I had pulled over into. I walked to the Walmart right down the street and bought a new bulb and changed it out right there, with one of the cops sitting in the parking lot watching me. (I later found out that after being given a warning, he could not have written me a ticket for the same brake light)

The one thing I regret is not getting each and every officer at the scenes business card and badge number so I could have filed a complaint. But since this little incident I have read up on my rights and I try and explain the same to my friends, family, and acquaintances whenever the topic is brought up, although many of them think that I was guilty of something for simply expressing my rights.

BTW my friend ended up having to walk the rest of the way to work and ended up being about 15 minutes late because of the whole ordeal.


Edited by KU5H (02/25/12 02:12 AM)


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: KU5H]
    #15860251 - 02/25/12 02:40 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

KU5H I find your story quite disturbing.

I'm from Australia and our police are really chilled out. We don't even have a bill of rights in our constitution but this kind of thing doesn't really happen over here. Cops may search a car if they pull someone over for bad driving but I don't think they would go to the extreme lengths you described in your encounter for a broken tail light.

I'd like to hear from some other Americans on just how oppressive your police force is getting. I just keep hearing bad news coming from your country. Is it really that bad?


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OfflineHumility
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: durantz]
    #15860485 - 02/25/12 04:26 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Durantz - Within less than 60 seconds of a traffic stop I've had a pistol pointed directly at my face with the officer's finger on the trigger.

I had no weapons.

My hands never left the steering wheel except when ordered to move.

And yet for minutes my life was in the hands of an overzealous individual who'd chosen to draw his gun on me when I again had no weapons of my own (and even if I did anything they could have seen would have been legal in this state) and my hands never made any threatening gestures.




There are numerous reports of cops killing people who are restrained, sometimes with their hands behind their back.  Examples include a black fellow killed in Nevada whose girlfriend (whom he lived with) was pregnant and the kid that got killed by the BART cop.


The real problem is the divisiveness that exists in American society that I haven't really seen coming from Europe or Commonwealth countries.  There are many people in America who are very comfortable using  the state to harm, even kill, their neighbors.  There are many people on this site even who will immediately fire back with comments like

"LEOs are only people like you and I.  They are fallible and should not be as heavily criticized as they are",

"Most LEOs are just trying to do their jobs and fulfill their 'responsibilities'"

"If you treat cops right and respect them they'll treat you right and respect you"

etc etc.


All of these excuses and justifications are a eye into the mind of many Americans who firmly believe in the rights of the police to harm, or even kill you if they believe it necessary, which they all-too-often do.


--------------------


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: Humility]
    #15860626 - 02/25/12 06:20 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

It sounds extreme man! Having a gun pointed at you is not a nice feeling.

I found this info from a news article. http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-shot-utah-dead-injured/story?id=15296679

Quote:

Last year (2011) officer fatalities were up 17 percent nationwide and police killed by gunfire spiked 20 percent. It was the deadliest year for law enforcement since 2007.




It seems like your country is going through a tough time. Police get shot so then they shoot citizens. The only way to stop that is for everyone to keep their guns in the holster.

I think that the police brutality you're describing is a symptom of a much larger social illness spreading through your country.

It's not nice to read about these things.


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: durantz] * 5
    #15860688 - 02/25/12 07:06 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
I think that the police brutality you're describing is a symptom of a much larger social illness spreading through your country.





They call it "the war on drugs."


--------------------
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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: durantz]
    #15860814 - 02/25/12 08:57 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
I'd like to hear from some other Americans on just how oppressive your police force is getting. I just keep hearing bad news coming from your country. Is it really that bad?





Occasionally, but not usually.  You never know how crazy the cops you meet are.  Most are average cops and follow the rules.


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #15861491 - 02/25/12 01:37 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

durantz said:
I'd like to hear from some other Americans on just how oppressive your police force is getting. I just keep hearing bad news coming from your country. Is it really that bad?





Occasionally, but not usually.  You never know how crazy the cops you meet are.  Most are average cops and follow the rules.




That may be part of the problem if the rules are flawed.


--------------------
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OfflineTHIRSTINMORE
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #15861588 - 02/25/12 02:13 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Do the same rules apply about random searches if i get pulled over on the streets...but on foot?


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OfflineHumility
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: THIRSTINMORE]
    #15861955 - 02/25/12 03:54 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

"How bad" the police brutality problem in America is depends on your skin color/cultural status, your wealth categorization and your relative level of social "value" among other factors.

Then again, cops have been known to taser and even shoot to death pastors of churches.



To say that "most cops obey the rules" is a grossly inaccurate assessment and not one I would risk years in prison on.  It is FAIRLY accurate if you assume the person being pulled over to be a middle-aged (or older) economically upwardly mobile (driving a nice, clean automobile) white male.  White females also receive a fair degree of leniency.  Not so much for individuals categorized into different social "class" ethnic/cultural groups, etc. etc.  Specifically, being a black male in the U.S.  Black men in America have something like a 30% chance of being imprisoned during their lifetimes, as contrasted with 4% for white males and 16% for hispanic males.


Entire departments have been known to operate outside of the color of the law.



America is literally institutionally racist. 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States


Black and hispanics represent 29% of the country's population but comprise 61% of the country's prisoners.


When you look at non-violent crime rates, especially drug war crimes, the numbers are even more glaring, like 80-85%.

The U.S. comprises about 5% of the world's population yet incarcerates around one QUARTER of the world's prisoners.

Strategic ethnic warfare.


--------------------


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OfflineOGTubs
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: durantz]
    #15861993 - 02/25/12 04:02 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
KU5H I find your story quite disturbing.

I'm from Australia and our police are really chilled out. We don't even have a bill of rights in our constitution but this kind of thing doesn't really happen over here. Cops may search a car if they pull someone over for bad driving but I don't think they would go to the extreme lengths you described in your encounter for a broken tail light.

I'd like to hear from some other Americans on just how oppressive your police force is getting. I just keep hearing bad news coming from your country. Is it really that bad?




Are you kidding me? Try sending some beans to your house. Have fun with your local PD coming and searching your crib over some seeds. Australia has a much worse fascist streak going.

You may read horror stories, but our justice system works well for those who can afford a decent attorney. Assuming you don't get shot before you get booked :lol:

We like our 2nd amendment, gun rights come with a cost. :shrug:


Edited by OGTubs (02/25/12 04:10 PM)


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OfflineLeeHarvOz
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: Humility]
    #15862024 - 02/25/12 04:11 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

yea i cant tell you how many times i have come close to getting arrested but didn't, if i were black i guarantee i would have been to jail at least a couple times by now. being white, middle class and polite goes a long way when dealing with the police here in America.


--------------------


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Offlineacim2
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #15862063 - 02/25/12 04:23 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Reason #6:
What if they find something simple that you have that turns out to be incriminating?  Like if someone just raped someone down the street with black gloves and an orange sweatshirt on...and you happen to have the same thing in your trunk.
People have been convicted on that type of stuff, and even if you didn't it would not be fun.

So, even if you have absolutely nothing illegal, never say "yes" to a search.


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OfflineRetrovertigo
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #15862072 - 02/25/12 04:25 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

The police in the US rival the death squads of Nazi Germany....not quite but they are horrible.  I live in a town with 12,000 people in it, no cops EVER get shot at or killed and they will straight beat the shit out of you and take your money here.  I had guns drawn on me and my friends for cutting through the school yard to go to mc Donald's when we were in 8th fucking grade.  I have friends and family who have been cuffed then had their teeth kicked in or had multiple cans of mace sprayed in their face.  I seen cops savagely beat minors for being "Smartasses"
Fuck the police
You may choose only one
Yes
Hell Yes


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You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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3 things your signature should have

1) A disclaimer about how everything you say is a work of ad-libbed fiction and should not be taken seriously

2) A quote from some famous psycho-naut like Tim Leary, or Alexander Shulgin.

3) A grand statement about the current state of the spirituality of mankind.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: THIRSTINMORE]
    #15862509 - 02/25/12 06:27 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Fuck the police




I recommend against that course of action.  Police reproduce sexually and fucking them will only make more of them.  Its a bit like pouring water on gremlins.

Quote:

THIRSTINMORE said:
Do the same rules apply about random searches if i get pulled over on the streets...but on foot?




Yes.  I have been pulled over on foot many times.  At least 3 times I said no to a search, and they didn't do it.



Since it hasn't been posted in this thread yet, here is the classic video on why to never talk to the police.



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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: Retrovertigo]
    #15862515 - 02/25/12 06:29 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Retrovertigo said:
The police in the US rival the death squads of Nazi Germany....not quite but they are horrible.  I live in a town with 12,000 people in it, no cops EVER get shot at or killed and they will straight beat the shit out of you and take your money here.  I had guns drawn on me and my friends for cutting through the school yard to go to mc Donald's when we were in 8th fucking grade.  I have friends and family who have been cuffed then had their teeth kicked in or had multiple cans of mace sprayed in their face.  I seen cops savagely beat minors for being "Smartasses"




By replying to hate and violence with hate and violence won't get you anything but more hate and violence. Be careful.

Quote:


America is literally institutionally racist.




About two months ago I would have called you an idiot believing in some kind of stupid conspiracy theory. Then I read "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander...
Now I must, unfortunately, agree.


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InvisibleLongStrangeTripS
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #15862768 - 02/25/12 07:47 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)



"BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters"


Thanks flexyourrights.org :heart:


--------------------
Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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OfflineEywa_devotee
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: LongStrangeTrip]
    #15862846 - 02/25/12 08:07 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

If you think it was bad in the past and now, just wait until the NDAA kicks in... You have the right to do what they tell you without question or you are a terrorist. D-day is March, 8, 2012.


--------------------
"Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: Eywa_devotee]
    #15862889 - 02/25/12 08:14 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Eywa_devotee said:
If you think it was bad in the past and now, just wait until the NDAA kicks in... You have the right to do what they tell you without question or you are a terrorist. D-day is March, 8, 2012.






I doubt that will change anything.


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OfflineVernus
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Re: 5 Reasons You Should Never Agree to a Police Search (Even if You Have Nothing to Hide) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #15863117 - 02/25/12 09:10 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

oh man i feel so stupid for watching the cops handcuff me and face me to the wall while they searched my bags and i said nothing about it !

wish i knew that before !

man ! i feel stupid :frown:
everyone this is your obligation to spread the word !


Thanks Veggie... another great thread !


--------------------
:allah:


Edited by Vernus (02/25/12 09:10 PM)


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