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 Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,226
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself?  [Re: Mafeki]
#15811018 - 02/14/12 09:35 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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I wasn't aware of that definition. Note that it's listed second. In any case, I was using the psychiatric definition:
Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance and a deep need for admiration. Those with narcissistic personality disorder believe that they're superior to others and have little regard for other people's feelings. But behind this mask of ultra-confidence lies a fragile self-esteem, vulnerable to the slightest criticism.
Narcissistic personality disorder is one of several types of personality disorders. Personality disorders are conditions in which people have traits that cause them to feel and behave in socially distressing ways, limiting their ability to function in relationships and in other areas of their life, such as work or school.
Narcissistic personality disorder treatment is centered around psychotherapy.
Mayo Clinic
Nothing there about sex.
I'm done discussing this with you
Alright then. 
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Mafeki
cartesian diver
Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 1,272
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: Diploid]
#15811087 - 02/14/12 09:45 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Well, I was kind of joking at the time I had Gene Wilder on the mind when I said that.
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I have hope that justice will prevail over popular opinion and political aspirations.
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 fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 23,674
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 3 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: Mafeki]
#15811773 - 02/15/12 12:42 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mafeki said:
You can call yourself a queer all you want but I do know that clone fucking doesn't indicate homosexuality. Thanks you 
You do know that clone fucking doesn't indicate homosexuality, huh? 
MT already brought up a good point that deconstructs your fallacious reasoning. If you forced a clone of yours to have sex with you against their wishes, by your logic, it wouldn't be rape, because it's "actually" you.
By the same logic, you say that, if you desired to have sex with a clone of your own, it isn't actually homosexual because it's "actually" you.
Normally, one could realize that this isn't true simply on the basis that a clone is a separate person. Hopefully the rape analogy will help clarify for you the error in your (wishful) thinking.
Sexual desire for someone of the same sex, including yourself, is homosexual, by definition. It may or may not be narcissistic, but that's another matter. Once again, the fact that it could be narcissistic doesn't negate the fact that, by definition, it is homosexual.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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the human abstract
White Girl
Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 6,853
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: fireworks_god]
#15811781 - 02/15/12 12:45 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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What if u are an elephant
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kneesocks
Healer
Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 37
Last seen: 10 days, 22 hours
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having sex with yourself, aka masturbating?
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[23:25:18] <Guest> wow thanks for unlocking life with me [23:30:13] <Guest> best of luck, and thank you for healing others
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Mafeki
cartesian diver
Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 1,272
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: kneesocks]
#15812171 - 02/15/12 04:44 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Mafeki said:
You can call yourself a queer all you want but I do know that clone fucking doesn't indicate homosexuality. Thanks you
You do know that clone fucking doesn't indicate homosexuality, huh?
MT already brought up a good point that deconstructs your fallacious reasoning. If you forced a clone of yours to have sex with you against their wishes, by your logic, it wouldn't be rape, because it's "actually" you.
By the same logic, you say that, if you desired to have sex with a clone of your own, it isn't actually homosexual because it's "actually" you.
Normally, one could realize that this isn't true simply on the basis that a clone is a separate person. Hopefully the rape analogy will help clarify for you the error in your (wishful) thinking.
Sexual desire for someone of the same sex, including yourself, is homosexual, by definition. It may or may not be narcissistic, but that's another matter. Once again, the fact that it could be narcissistic doesn't negate the fact that, by definition, it is homosexual.
I've told you guys time after time that it isn't a desire for someone of the same sex. You guys for some reason refuse to accept this or even acknowledge it. I've been relaxing parts of my argument because I felt it was beside the point by now.
Clone:
2 : one that appears to be a copy of an original form : DUPLICATE *a clone of a personal computer* - Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Duplicate:
Synonyms SAME 2, equal, equivalent, identic, identical, indistinguishable, tantamount - Merriam-Webster Thesaurus
There we have it clones are duplicates and what's synonyms for duplicate. I've only used valid reasoning and I didn't want to have to bring this up again. I wish you guys would just understand that there isn't a correlation between fucking a clone and homosexuality they're entirely different things one doesn't equal the other. Clones aren't separate identities, they're identical so can't be considered another person.
Homosexual:
1 : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex
2 : of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex - Merriam-Webster's Dictionary
I mean really the argument that it fits a homosexual definition doesn't even work. It doesn't conclude persons nor tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex based solely on clone fucking, persons is plural which I'm certain without looking it up means more then one assuming we're only talking clone fucking here.
Edited by Mafeki (02/15/12 05:06 AM)
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 23,674
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 3 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: Mafeki]
#15812189 - 02/15/12 04:58 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mafeki said:
I've told you guys time after time that it isn't a desire for someone of the same sex.
Because you aren't the same sex as you?
Quote:
You guys for some reason refuse to accept this or even acknowledge it.
Because it's nonsense. I think we've been clear on expressing that this is the reason we don't accept this. Your line of reasoning is nonsense.
Quote:
There we have it clones are duplicates and what's synonyms for duplicate. I've only used valid reasoning and I didn't want to have to bring this up again.
No, your reasoning isn't valid. This is evidenced by the fact that you refuse to respond to the analogy of rape of a clone. You for some reason continue to insist on synonyms of the word duplicate, completely failing to address the plainly obvious fact that a clone is another person. A clone is not the same person. A child who has learned to count on their hand can realize this - one person, two people. Simple. The fact that they look nearly identical due to their having the same genes doesn't change that. No amount of synonyms will change that for you.
Quote:
I wish you guys would just understand that there isn't a correlation between fucking a clone and homosexuality they're entirely different things one doesn't equal the other.
Wishful thinking doesn't make it true, and you haven't demonstrated the slightest reason why we should agree with you.
Are identical twins the same person? They aren't homosexual if they have sex because they are identical from a genetic standpoint? They're actually one person even though they are two? 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 3,635
Last seen: 8 hours, 30 minutes
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Quote:
the human abstract said:
What if u are an elephant
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Mafeki
cartesian diver
Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 1,272
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: fireworks_god]
#15812204 - 02/15/12 05:15 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Alright, you are now trying to nitpick at my replies, you must be getting desperate. This isn't wishful thinking I'm using actual definition from a dictionary. Word meanings clearly don't matter to you, I suppose the dictionary is inaccurate or semantics is irrelevant? I think you may be trolling I don't know what your purpose is but good day to you sir.
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I have hope that justice will prevail over popular opinion and political aspirations.
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 23,674
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 3 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: Mafeki]
#15812285 - 02/15/12 06:08 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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 It doesn't matter that you're using an "actual" definition from a dictionary, because it isn't as if you are using these definitions correctly to support the point of view you have put forth.
I think the only person who is desperate here is the person who keeps trying to end the conversation without addressing the other person's replies.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Mafeki
cartesian diver
Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 1,272
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: fireworks_god]
#15812516 - 02/15/12 07:34 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
It doesn't matter that you're using an "actual" definition from a dictionary, because it isn't as if you are using these definitions correctly to support the point of view you have put forth.
I think the only person who is desperate here is the person who keeps trying to end the conversation without addressing the other person's replies.
Why would I want to have a conversation with someone who doesn't even think a dictionary is reliable? I haven't taken it out of context, paraphrased, I only quoted and referenced. A lot of it is you just saying the same questions I've already addressed previously. Really is there is anything you really want me to acknowledge I will do so because as of right now as far as I'm concerned I already proved my point. Okay a clone would imply two physical identities but it doesn't make them different if it was different you can't technically call it a clone, can you?
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I have hope that justice will prevail over popular opinion and political aspirations.
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 23,674
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 3 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: Mafeki]
#15812764 - 02/15/12 08:52 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mafeki said:
Why would I want to have a conversation with someone who doesn't even think a dictionary is reliable?
Oh, I find the dictionary to be quite reliable indeed. I don't find using it's entries out of context very useful, however. 
Quote:
I only quoted and referenced.
Yes, incorrectly, which is what i said - that you are referencing the dictionary incorrectly.
Quote:
A lot of it is you just saying the same questions I've already addressed previously.
That's not true. You haven't addressed the analogy that demonstrates even more sorely the error in your logic, pertaining to rape. You also haven't addressed another analogy that sorely demonstrates the error in your line of thought, the one regarding identical twins.
If you've already addressed these matters, then kindly quote your previous responses. If not, then kindly respond to them now.
Quote:
Okay a clone would imply two physical identities but it doesn't make them different if it was different you can't technically call it a clone, can you?
Of course you technically can. This entire matter has been hinging on your inability to grok this.
Behold, the dictionary:
Quote:
clone
[klohn] Show IPA noun, verb, cloned, clon·ing.
noun
1.
Biology .
a.
a cell, cell product, or organism that is genetically identical to the unit or individual from which it was derived.
2.
a person or thing that duplicates, imitates, or closely resembles another in appearance, function, performance, or style: All the fashion models seemed to be clones of one another.
Being genetically identical doesn't mean they aren't different!
Duplicating, imitating, or closely resembling something else doesn't mean that the things aren't actually different!
Even what one would consider a duplicate of a document, for example, is still different than the original - or else it would be the original!
You've finally acknowledged that clones have separate physical identities, despite earlier claiming that there was no separate identity at all. This is a reflection of the above-stated. So what's left? Are you claiming that clones share the same mental identity? What's left after that, in terms of your argument, really? That the fact that their genetics are the same somehow blocks the gay?
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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Mafeki
cartesian diver
Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 1,272
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: fireworks_god]
#15814597 - 02/15/12 04:33 PM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Your argument is relying on 'what if', what if clones weren't the same, what if they were entirely different people and to support this argument you say mine is irrational with out any stated reason to why just it's 'invalid'. I can state that your argument is meaningless and you already know you're wrong you're just dragging this on to distort facts or hope that ill give up trying to explain, does it make it true? I can also state that this is just an attempt for you to devaluate the contrary of your statements by stating that I'm 'incorrectly using the dictionary'.
It doesn't matter if they're raping each other people it doesn't actually change the fact that it's a narcissistic. I never said they were separate I just stated that there'd be two of the same identity, there no different from each other.
For the rest of your questions or concerns look at this post: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15812171#15812171
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I have hope that justice will prevail over popular opinion and political aspirations.
Edited by Mafeki (02/15/12 08:13 PM)
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Jwlst
Stranger
Registered: 02/24/05
Posts: 1,037
Last seen: 8 hours, 10 minutes
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: Mafeki]
#15815040 - 02/15/12 05:38 PM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mafeki said:
These are questions I ponder.
You are a very unique individual.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 1,389
Last seen: 18 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: Mafeki]
#15815932 - 02/15/12 08:28 PM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Your argument is relying on 'what if'
this whole thread is a 'what if'. just admit it dude, you were wrong. it's ok to be wrong sometimes.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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tospace
Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 1,497
Last seen: 44 minutes, 41 seconds
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: fireworks_god]
#15816235 - 02/15/12 09:27 PM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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I would totally do it. I would think its dirty on any other guy, but my self... thats just more fun and comfortable.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 3,635
Last seen: 8 hours, 30 minutes
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: tospace]
#15816451 - 02/15/12 10:19 PM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
tospace said:
I would totally do it. I would think its dirty on any other guy, but my self... thats just more fun and comfortable.
"my self" There it is again. There seems to be confusion in this thread between the layman version of "clone" which means a literal copy of yourself, and scientific cloning where there is a shared DNA pattern but you are two different people.
For the record, I think both are homosexual. 
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Mafeki
cartesian diver
Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 1,272
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: fireworks_god]
#15816684 - 02/15/12 11:22 PM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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It's pretty sad that we can't come to some sort of agreement we'll just have to agree to disagree. I said my case and now I'm officially done if you want to ignore it and think I'm wrong go-ahead but the posts will still be there for you to read anytime. This'll be along the lines of stating that Merriam-Webster's isn't reliable you might not agree with that but you haven't provided any reason to why you think what I did was 'incorrect', blah, blah, blah putting word into peoples mouth. Either way, nitpicking at my sentiments and ignoring the point shouldn't be what arguments are about. It shouldn't be about whose wrong or right it should be about persuading. Sure you can simply state someone's wrong or irrational give no reasoning but I don't think that's in the spirit of argument is about. You might not like what I'm saying but if we can't agree to disagree that just proves my point and if your reply to this is anything but that I'm pretty sure from what your M.O seems to be our, feeling will be mutual either way if there's a reply you'll likely start with the first sentence.
Edited by Mafeki (02/16/12 12:07 AM)
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tospace
Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 1,497
Last seen: 44 minutes, 41 seconds
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: Mafeki]
#15817004 - 02/16/12 01:06 AM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Why get caught up in the technicalities? Yes I've seen the movie 'moon' and yes if there were a clone of me id fuck it in the ass, preferably the clone being unconscious and me being on some really good drugs. does that make me gay? I don't give a fuck. I don't give myself labels. Words are lies.
Quote:
Sleepwalker said:
Quote:
tospace said:
I would totally do it. I would think its dirty on any other guy, but my self... thats just more fun and comfortable.
"my self" There it is again. There seems to be confusion in this thread between the layman version of "clone" which means a literal copy of yourself, and scientific cloning where there is a shared DNA pattern but you are two different people.
For the record, I think both are homosexual.
Go fuck Yourself
Edited by tospace (02/16/12 01:08 AM)
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 23,674
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 3 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Would it be gay to have sex with yourself? [Re: Mafeki]
#15817181 - 02/16/12 03:10 AM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mafeki said:
Your argument is relying on 'what if', what if clones weren't the same, what if they were entirely different people....
No, it is not relying on what if. It's a statement of fact that clones aren't the same person. There is no question about it. Take one sheep. Collect a genetic sample from it. Create another sheep. They aren't the same sheep.
It's really as simple as that. There is no "what if they weren't the same?". It's clearly a matter of "they aren't the same, and here's why.".
Quote:
and to support this argument you say mine is irrational with out any stated reason to why just it's 'invalid'.
No, I gave very specific reasons why you're point of view is invalid; primarily because it does not correspond with reality. Not only that, but I specifically explained to you why it does not correspond with reality.
Quote:
I can state that your argument is meaningless and you already know you're wrong you're just dragging this on to distort facts or hope that ill give up trying to explain, does it make it true?
Of course not. You'd actually have to provide a convincing rationale to demonstrate that this is true. Like the one I've been providing concerning how a clone and an original are not of the same identity.
Quote:
It doesn't matter if they're raping each other people it doesn't actually change the fact that it's a narcissistic. I never said they were separate I just stated that there'd be two of the same identity, there no different from each other.
Yes, you just stated that they would be two of the same identity, and that they would be no different from each other. Time and time again I have directly addressed this statement on the grounds that it is wrong. They are different from each other, and they do not share the same identity, they are not "two of the same identity".
The only line of reasoning you've provided for why you think they are is a dictionary quotation, which does not actually demonstrate what you want it to. The dictionary definition of clone only specifies that they share the same genetics, just like identical twins do. It doesn't say that clones have the same identity and are no different from each other.
You haven't been able to advance your contention any further than that. I, on the other hand, have demonstrated the basis for my claim that they are different from each other and that they do not share the same identity. I have accomplished this by showing you that they are two people, not one. Two bodies, not one. Two minds, not one. Two different lives, not one. The fact that their genetics are more identical compared with other people does not negate this.
I have also provided a great analogy - that of identical twins. They have two names, did you know? They have different lives, did you know?
It all boils down to this: having sex with your identical twin is homosexual. Having sex with your clone is homosexual. It may or may not also be narcissistic, but it is, by definition, homosexual.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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