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 blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
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 why is buddhism good? 
#15806939 - 02/14/12 03:52 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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how does Buddhism help people?
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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cbub
thread killer
Registered: 10/17/10
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: blingbling]
#15806949 - 02/14/12 03:59 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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From my point of view, it's a method to be free from the inner voice and indeed it's a very content feeling. Permanence in 'here, now'. No room for suffering.
No faith, just philosophy and logic.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 1,389
Last seen: 18 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: cbub]
#15806990 - 02/14/12 04:34 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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yes but how is it done?
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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cbub
thread killer
Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 769
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: blingbling]
#15807069 - 02/14/12 05:24 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Like most other schools. Attend, study, practice and much easier if you have teachers.
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White Beard
Venerable White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 2,318
Loc: In the forest somewhere.
Last seen: 1 hour, 37 minutes
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: blingbling]
#15807600 - 02/14/12 09:24 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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It helps people by minimizing or eliminating suffering. It does this by prescribing a system that you can test out yourself to see if it helps eliminates the causes and conditions for suffering to occur. (8 fold path) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8-fold_Path
Personally, it's helped me in many ways.
1. The breathing and body scan meditations I've learned really help me out in tough times as they get me into the body and out of my imagination. This reduces anxiety.
2. I really enjoy going to the Dharma Centre near my place. The Sangha (school of practitioners) is really nice because everyone is really friendly and helping each other out on the path of eliminating suffering.
3. Studying impermanence and emptiness has really helped remove a lot of emotional suffering from my psyche.
At the end of the day one has to try and experiment with the Buddha's teachings to see if they are actually credible and lead to a decrease in Suffering.
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 deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
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personally i really love buddhism for its vast range of methods - which when used can greatly improve one's quality of life ime 
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 Jessica Swift
यन्त्र
Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 1,723
Loc: 
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: deff]
#15807936 - 02/14/12 11:00 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Buddhism, I've found, is usually helpful because of its sheer novelty. For many Westerners it affords considerations about experience that were previously un-encountered, and thus nonexistent. Thus it offers a new way to be.
It can also be an obstacle.
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Humility
Working on it
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: deff]
#15809115 - 02/14/12 03:55 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
personally i really love buddhism for its vast range of methods - which when used can greatly improve one's quality of life ime
Definitely my favorite part of Buddhism. There are many paths. Buddhism (or sects thereof) seem to acknowledge this and encourage this.
The sincerity of Buddhism also strikes me. No monetary requirement to reach peace, no unnecessary rituals need be performed.
The most important reagent to serious Buddhist work is a sincere desire for peace, harmony, and liberation.
In short, and I mean this legitimately:
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White Beard
Venerable White Beard
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Posts: 2,318
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: blingbling]
#15809141 - 02/14/12 04:01 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Why do you ask Blingbling? Thinking about becoming a Buddhist? 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,604
Loc: underbelly
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: blingbling]
#15809586 - 02/14/12 05:14 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
blingbling said:
how does Buddhism help people?
It teaches them how to dry their clothes without using a dryer.
And the suffering thing.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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White Beard
Venerable White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 2,318
Loc: In the forest somewhere.
Last seen: 1 hour, 37 minutes
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: Icelander]
#15809612 - 02/14/12 05:18 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
It teaches them how to dry their clothes without using a dryer.
What. Why haven't I been taught this yet? Or is this advanced stuff, got to train as a monk for 15 years before they reveal that secret.
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deff
just relax
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 6,120
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i think he's referring to the practice of tummo 
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White Beard
Venerable White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 2,318
Loc: In the forest somewhere.
Last seen: 1 hour, 37 minutes
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: deff]
#15809651 - 02/14/12 05:25 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 1,389
Last seen: 18 hours, 31 minutes
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Quote:
White Beard said:
Why do you ask Blingbling? Thinking about becoming a Buddhist?
no, i don't want to be a buddhist. i don't want to be an anything. i wanted to know what people think buddhism is (it's benefits, practices). i think that most of what people claim buddhism teaches you is just sitting and thinking. hardly a miraculous system. i don't understand what all the fuss is about. but people say it works so i wanted to know how.
like i said, it seems that much of what western buddhists practice is simply thinking. i thought buddhism was a collection of ideas, practices and texts. but what you see in most western buddhist practitioners is a crappy shrine in their house and about an hour of meditation a week. this seems a bit disingenuous to me.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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White Beard
Venerable White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 2,318
Loc: In the forest somewhere.
Last seen: 1 hour, 37 minutes
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: blingbling]
#15810171 - 02/14/12 06:53 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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"i think that most of what people claim buddhism teaches you is just sitting and thinking."
Where did you get this from? That doesn't really sound like buddhism.
"but what you see in most western buddhist practitioners is a crappy shrine in their house and about an hour of meditation a week."
How could you possibly know that besides a vague guess? And if that's the case, so? What does that have to do with the system itself? If someone doesn't follow the system fully and therefore doesn't get full results, then that's how it goes. And some people may only want to meditate 1 hour a week. I haven't read anything in Buddhism where it says you must meditate x number of hours of week.
"i thought buddhism was a collection of ideas, practices and texts."
Sounds kind of vague. You could say that about a lot of things. Doesn't really say much about the system itself.
Perhaps read up a little on Buddhism. It doesn't sound like you have any idea what it's about really. 
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 1,389
Last seen: 18 hours, 31 minutes
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i have read a bit about buddhism. maybe my cynicism towards what i see as disingenuous westerners trying to be uber spiritual has blinded me from taking this practice seriously. but i really am interested in other shroomerites experiences and practice with buddhism.
Perhaps read up a little on Buddhism. It doesn't sound like you have any idea what it's about really.
so tell me. your first post has been the best answer so far but it is far from detailed.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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White Beard
Venerable White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 2,318
Loc: In the forest somewhere.
Last seen: 1 hour, 37 minutes
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: blingbling]
#15810917 - 02/14/12 09:13 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Okay, sure I'll go into more detail.
Buddhism differs from most religions in that most religions are trying to obtain some mystical state, but Buddhism is about reducing suffering. The good part about this is that the quest to eliminate suffering doesn't have to have holy add ons to it, which allows the practice to be more pure and to the point. Though you are correct, it is easy to go down the road of spiritual holiness when pursuing the path, as that is one major obstacle.
So Buddhism begins with the four noble truths
1. There is suffering
2. The cause of suffering is clinging and attachment to this existance
3. There is a solution to the problem of suffering
4. The solution is the 8 fold path
The Buddha started by looking at life, and realized there is a lot of suffering in it. He saw the process of birth painful and filled with suffering (it must be a terrifying, painful experience, if only I could remember it) the process of aging suffering (sadness of lost youth, not being able to do the things one could once do, illness as suffering, death as suffering (both the fact that death can be a painful experience, and also loosing everything we had in this life. I'm sure you can agree about the troubles death causes as I know you're big into Becker. Also, wanting some thing or some situation but being unable to get it is suffering, not wanting some thing or some situation but unable to get rid of it is suffering. The last suffering he talked about is an all pervading suffering that is subtle, that is caused by the nature of things being impermanent, therefore making it seem like everything we've done in our life is meaningless. Again, I'm sure Becker and you would agree.
He then began to wonder whether it is possible to be actually happy in this existence. And he found out that clinging to this existence, by saying "this life is mine" and making it personal, instead of just a passing phenomenon is the cause of all this suffering.
He then determined that it is possible to let go of this existence, and I believe he said that once you totally give up all clinging, no more suffering can arise. That's because it's cutting the weeds out by the roots, never to regrow. And once clinging has been finally eliminated, that is what he calls Nirvana, or the perfect happiness.
He then recommends the 8-fold path as a means to eliminate clinging to this existence, and thus eliminate the causes for present and future suffering. The 8-fold path is: Right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration. You can read more about each step more on Wikipedia if you want. The path is basically a systematic way of decreasing desire, hatred, and ignorance in our minds, as these are the things that keep us clinging and suffering in this life.
So personally I've been studying and following the 8-fold path, and trying to see what works for the past 2 months, and there is already much change. I've also been meditating a lot for the past 2 years. What I've noticed are a few things
1.) I can now slip into a meditative state where it feels like I'm unattached to anything. The best way to describe it is sensations arise, but their is no interpretation of them. This state is very peaceful. I wouldn't say there is anything holy about this state, but it can be very interesting. It feels like a switch in attention. When I first started slipping into this state about a month ago there was a lot of fear and resistance, but now it seems pretty easy to go in. Fear still comes up, but I feel less attached to the fear now, and can go deeper into the unattached state.
2.) I've been treating myself a lot kinder these days. I realize I'm dead meat, so now I spend most of my time reducing my suffering instead of trying to get to some new place.
3.) My relations with my family and friends has improved as I feel I'm very confident now, as I once was very socially awkward, but now I feel very spontaneous. It is nice.
4.) I feel a lot less existential then I did even a month ago. I was constantly sad about things such as my death, or the meaning of life or whatever, but now I find I can more enjoy the simple things, such as some good video games.
That's basically the scratching of the surface of Buddhism, and some parts of Buddhism do weird me out, but that's why it's more like seeing what works and what doesn't. For meditations, there are many different forms of Buddhist meditations, but I do mainly concentration meditations, such as body scans and breathing, and also vipassana meditations, which are more about investigating sensations, perceptions, awareness, etc.
Though no intellectual understanding will be enough. It's only if someone actually has sincere desire to eliminate suffering, and to experiment and test the teachings of the Buddha to see if they hold up. I'm definitely not saying everyone should be Buddhist. Buddhism isn't for everyone. I found a lot of the logic and methods prescribed by the Buddha to make sense and work for me.
I hope this helps.
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: blingbling]
#15810963 - 02/14/12 09:24 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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There are lots of disingenuous practitioners of every religion. Some with more of a spotlight on them than others. Some harder to detect even from close up. But the practitioner shouldn't really shape what you personally get out of any ideology. At least not IMO. I've found a large amount of wisdom in Christianity but find most of the followers ignorant as can be.
my own experience with buddhism is brief, relatively speaking. I grew up in a Christian home with a father who does not attend Church and has never been baptized, a mother who not only attends church but engages in every event that the church has, and a sibling who is too smart to buy into any of it. So I had a mixed bag. The early years of church were spent coloring on the pews while some noise droned on in the background. As I grew up there was less coloring and more restless tomfoolery. By the time I was 10 or 11 I was questioning pretty good in my own mind and resisting attendance strongly. By the time I was 13 I'd had enough and walked off, even though home was 12 miles away.
Around the same time I had friends and family who were finding the disruptions and diseases of modern life. Lots of drug abuse, lots of stupid and harmful crimes, lots of fighting. I was in an interesting position of being amidst it at every turn and yet never wanting to partake. I turned really introverted for the next several years. A well-abled and intelligent youngster who no longer wanted to partake in anything the world had to offer. Only really looking for the lesser of two evils -- the home life or the social life. All the same my heart called me to open my arms to anyone who was willing to seek assistance. This often placed me in the midst of serious drama. Drama that at the time I didn't know how to deal with. Like I said I'm intelligent and could often see things that others couldn't, but I was still developing emotionally and the lines between self and other were blurry in that sense. Empathy was enormous and on a mushroom trip I once told another, "it feels like I'm giving parts of my soul to help and soon I'll have nothing left".
I started reading books about the psychedelic experience with an emphasis on the psychology. Stanislav Grof comes to mind as a prominent author here. I took in what I could and learned more about psychology aside. I traveled to Portland a few times and grabbed what books I could afford from the psychology section in Powells. Learned more. Got into college despite more or less giving up on school. I rarely attended and my senior year took as many study halls and work credits as I could. In college I found the classes slightly more engaging but overall boring. I tried to engage more, taking on extra duties. Taught a course, got involved in research, started a psychology club to find some like-minded folk, took Japanese on top of a heavy course load. And then, as a Junior, it all feel apart.
I had just taken a social psychology course the year prior and learned about the concept of self-deception and it's correlation to our mental well-being. The idea that in order to be mentally sound we need to deceive ourselves was quite the strike to my sense of what had been happening all along. Here I was thinking that to be happy involved removing self-deception, not reinforcing it. And so I started questioning many of the methods that clinical psychology uses in this light. I devised an experiment to see if accurate self-awareness was related to mindfulness, and if so, why a mindfulness treatment was showing far more long-term efficacy than ANY other treatment out there?
So I researched a ton. I read every theory of depression I could get my hands on. I read through the entire coursebook for MBCT (mindfulness-based cognitive-behavior therapy) and read all of the research surrounding the method. Finally, after reading a study that tested whether or not the treatment was helpful for improving quality of life in those who are NOT depressed, I was opened to the idea of trying it myself. The sample group was graduate students undergoing clinical training. As part of learning the MBCT treatment in practice, they were given the task of following the treatment as a patient (essentially: meditate, stretch, pay attention to mundane things) and then as part of the study, report subjective well-being. So I figured if I'm going to study it, why not give it a shot myself?
To make this already long story shorter, I found it helped me feel better and wanted to know why. Now after a few years of study I cannot imagine my life without the Buddha's teachings. They have so profoundly changed what I thought I knew. Of course events in life correspond here, as well as events on the forum. Icelander fit in very nicely with death anxiety. Chronic fit in nicely with the idea of the Self. And how all this has happened? I don't know. It's just my life story. I had a heart filled with so much love for people that I wanted to find a better way to help. Then I found out that I could help myself along the way. And then everything just burst open into a crazy unknown land of wisdom and compassion.
I am by no means a Buddhist, but I value the shared sense of a path immensely. Without it I likely would have abandoned it out of fear or despair.
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White Beard
Venerable White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
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Re: why is buddhism good? [Re: Kickle]
#15811201 - 02/14/12 10:04 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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You always have the best stories Kickle. That was pretty touching. 
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
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thank you friend
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