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 blingbling
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 becker on the existence of a creator god
#15806983 - 02/14/12 04:30 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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for those of you who don't know, ernest becker was a cultural anthropologist who wrote the pulitzer prize winning book the denial of death, among many other great works. he is famous for popularizing the concept of death anxiety which is a persistent theme in shroomery threads.
in the denial of death becker makes numerous references to a "creative force" or "creator god". here are some examples:
Quote:
man breaks through the bounds of merely cultural heroism; he destroys the character lie that had him perform as a hero in the everyday scheme of things; and by doing so he opens himself up to infinity, to the possibility of cosmic heroism, to the very service of god.
the self has to be destroyed, brought down to nothing, in order for self-transcendence to begin. then the self can begin to relate itself to powers beyond itself. it has to thrash around in it's finitude, it has to die, in order to see beyond it. to what? to infinitude, to absolute transcendence, to the ultimate power of creation which made finite creatures. our modern understanding of psychodynamics confirms that this progression is very logical...
once you expose the basic weaknesses and emptiness of the person, his helplessness, then you are forced to re-examine the whole problem of power linkages. you have to think about reforging them to a real source of creative and generative power. it is at this point that one can begin to posit creatureliness vis-a-vis a creator who is the first cause of all created things, not merely the second hand, intermediate creators of society , the parents and the panopoly of cultural heroes.
one goes through it all to arrive at faith, the faith that one's very creatureliness has some meaning to a creator,; that despite one's true insignificance, weakness, death, one's existence has meaning in some ultimate sense because it exists within an eternal and infinite scheme of things brought about and maintained to some kind of design by some creative force.
do you think becker is merely showing his own death anxiety or in your opinion has becker hit the nail on the head and essentially found the meaning of life?
Edited by blingbling (02/14/12 04:32 AM)
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 Icelander
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: blingbling]
#15807022 - 02/14/12 04:55 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I've thought about this passage many times. My conclusion is, of course it's death anxiety. Why else would one need even to consider the question? It is anxiety that drives us to the point where we consider such issues in dealing with "the problem" of life.
Having said that of course one must acknowledge it as a viable shield to anxiety and therefore useful. It might even be true but that of course is an unknown.
My guess is Becker had plenty of death anxiety but by facing it reduced it to a point where he was able to face the actual event of his dying with grace. At least according to a few who were around him near the end.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Icelander]
#15807043 - 02/14/12 05:11 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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can we consider beckers use of the creator god concept as a means of dying with reduced anxiety graceful? does his belief in a creator god show that he could not face his own death without making unwarranted assumptions?
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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Icelander
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: blingbling]
#15807081 - 02/14/12 05:28 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Yes we can IMO. Graceful to me means without undue suffering. Anyone dying in a non or low stress state is doing so gracefully imo. In the end who cares what one uses as a shield? This is not a contest.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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tribesman
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: blingbling]
#15807123 - 02/14/12 05:57 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I cannot deny my apprehension surrounding death, sometimes I would tell my self it will be ok, and other times I would get stuck on death's impending inevitability. This pattern has repeated in my mind for years, and has been so consistant in my thoughts because of my proximity to family and friends who I've lost, or through the prior knowledge that they were soon to die. Most recently my grandfather (fathers father) died, and although it was out of the blue, I wasn't shocked, or overly sad, or even fearful of my own death, I just thought to my self; "well this is what happens".
I hadn't heard the term 'death anxiety' until I started visiting the shroomery, my own recognition of it was usually as a companion to the thought; "I will have to die one day, no matter what I do or plan now", and being from a protestant christian family, fear of death didn't bother me as much as the fear of a painful death. This may be the reason for my interest in spirituality and mysticism, and my early interest in psychedelics (post recreational teen use) and their use in spiritual practices.
How can DA be reduced, if indeed it can ?,
and what would we gain from such a reduction ?
Is meeting death with dignity important to the departed for their own benefit or for some conceived of benefit to those left behind watching ?
I remember when my mothers father died many years ago, and when she broke the news to my siblings and I, she said that at the moment he died he had a big smile on his face and a glow. I'm not sure if she made this up to lessen the loss, or if my grandfather had managed it as one last act of compassion for his daughters.
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Desert Elf
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: blingbling]
#15807141 - 02/14/12 06:11 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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No such thing as death.
Sorry.
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Om Bhur Bhuvah Svaha
Tat Savitur Varenyam
Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi
Dhiyo Yo Nah Prachodayat
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tribesman
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Desert Elf]
#15807156 - 02/14/12 06:19 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Don't ruin the surprise. 
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Icelander
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Desert Elf]
#15807228 - 02/14/12 06:50 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Desert Elf said:
No such thing as death.
Sorry.
What ever gets you thought the night.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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soldatheero
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: blingbling]
#15807301 - 02/14/12 07:22 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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You know that whole excerpt may just belong in the S&M greatest spiritual quotes thread.
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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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4896744
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Icelander]
#15807579 - 02/14/12 09:14 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Yes we can IMO. Graceful to me means without undue suffering. Anyone dying in a non or low stress state is doing so gracefully imo. In the end who cares what one uses as a shield? This is not a contest.
I agree. My preference just happens to be opiates and benzodiapenes as opposed to pretending you know a creator exists.
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Live your Life! 
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Icelander
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: 4896744]
#15807619 - 02/14/12 09:30 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I think your method is far more sure to bring some calm in those last days or minutes than a belief system where some nagging doubt remains.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Samurai Drifter
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Desert Elf]
#15807643 - 02/14/12 09:35 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Desert Elf said:
No such thing as death.
Sorry.
I might as well say there's no such thing as life and call that video the "circle of death." 
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The obstacle is the path.
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White Beard
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Samurai Drifter]
#15807658 - 02/14/12 09:41 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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In the Circle, the Circle of Death!
Come on kids, sing along!
It'd probably be good for them. Spoiled brats.
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4896744
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Icelander]
#15807671 - 02/14/12 09:44 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I think your method is far more sure to bring some calm in those last days or minutes than a belief system where some nagging doubt remains.
Ya, I view drugs as a more to the point and intense way of achieving the mind states people try to achieve "naturally".
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Live your Life!
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tribesman
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Icelander]
#15807672 - 02/14/12 09:44 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I think your method is far more sure to bring some calm in those last days or minutes than a belief system where some nagging doubt remains.
I doubt it really matters, once the ego stops functioning and all identification of self ends, there will be no 'me' to care or worry.
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4896744
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: tribesman]
#15807675 - 02/14/12 09:45 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
tribesman said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
I think your method is far more sure to bring some calm in those last days or minutes than a belief system where some nagging doubt remains.
I doubt it really matters, once the ego stops functioning and all identification of self ends, there will be no 'me' to care or worry.
It can matter while you are still alive. Just because I will be without preference in the end doesn't mean that I am without preference in the meantime.
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Live your Life!
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Icelander
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: tribesman]
#15807707 - 02/14/12 09:56 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
tribesman said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
I think your method is far more sure to bring some calm in those last days or minutes than a belief system where some nagging doubt remains.
I doubt it really matters, once the ego stops functioning and all identification of self ends, there will be no 'me' to care or worry.
We are talking about everything up to that point.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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tribesman
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: 4896744]
#15807712 - 02/14/12 09:57 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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A preference for what, fear ?, even when acknowledging
that in the end it doesn't matter.
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Icelander
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: tribesman]
#15807724 - 02/14/12 10:00 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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wtf are you talking about?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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4896744
Small Town Girl
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: tribesman]
#15807740 - 02/14/12 10:03 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
tribesman said:
A preference for what, fear ?, even when acknowledging
that in the end it doesn't matter.
A preference for pleasure as opposed to fear and anxiety obviously. Why the fuck shouldn't I attempt to make living more pleasurable even though it will all end with a cessation of preferences? Do you make no attempts at making your life more pleasurable? If not, why do you continue living?
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Live your Life!
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tribesman
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: 4896744]
#15807772 - 02/14/12 10:13 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Unnecessary fear is starting to seem like waste of energy. 
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
tribesman said:
A preference for what, fear ?, even when acknowledging
that in the end it doesn't matter.
A preference for pleasure as opposed to fear and anxiety obviously. Why the fuck shouldn't I attempt to make living more pleasurable even though it will all end with a cessation of preferences? Do you make no attempts at making your life more pleasurable? If not, why do you continue living?
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
tribesman said:
A preference for what, fear ?, even when acknowledging
that in the end it doesn't matter.
A preference for pleasure as opposed to fear and anxiety obviously. Why the fuck shouldn't I attempt to make living more pleasurable even though it will all end with a cessation of preferences? Do you make no attempts at making your life more pleasurable? If not, why do you continue living?
Every time I make efforts to enjoy life it ends in tears, maybe happiness and fulfillment are just a bunch of hype ? 
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White Beard
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: tribesman]
#15807801 - 02/14/12 10:22 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Maybe you just need better drugs?
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4896744
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: tribesman]
#15807816 - 02/14/12 10:26 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Every time I make efforts to enjoy life it ends in tears, maybe happiness and fulfillment are just a bunch of hype ?
What do you mean by "just a bunch of hype"? I know that for me, happiness is definitely a preferable state of mind. When I am happy, I am high on chemicals in my brain, whether it is induced by an ingested chemical or a sober experience. I find highs such as this to be more enjoyable than sadness.
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Live your Life!
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Icelander]
#15807832 - 02/14/12 10:31 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
My guess is Becker had plenty of death anxiety but by facing it reduced it to a point where he was able to face the actual event of his dying with grace.
What is wrong with kicking, screaming, pleading, weeping and a general carrying on and embarassing yourself in front of the hosiptal staff?
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This is your drain on brugs.
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Desert Elf
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Samurai Drifter]
#15807983 - 02/14/12 11:14 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
Desert Elf said:
No such thing as death.
Sorry.
I might as well say there's no such thing as life and call that video the "circle of death."
Right you are sir.
There is no life there is no death. Just things that come and go and the perception of it all.
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Om Bhur Bhuvah Svaha
Tat Savitur Varenyam
Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi
Dhiyo Yo Nah Prachodayat
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Icelander
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
My guess is Becker had plenty of death anxiety but by facing it reduced it to a point where he was able to face the actual event of his dying with grace.
What is wrong with kicking, screaming, pleading, weeping and a general carrying on and embarassing yourself in front of the hosiptal staff?
Wrong? No, nothing wrong with that.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Jwlst
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Icelander]
#15809337 - 02/14/12 04:32 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Maybe the only problem is if you really believe yourself to be a god, then I guess your death anxiety takes you too very strange extremes.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Desert Elf] 1
#15810004 - 02/14/12 06:19 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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There is no life there is no death. Just things that come and go and the perception of it all.
how deliciously vague. there are lots of sneaky ways of obscuring your fate as a biological organism. keep up the good work 
--------------------
"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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Icelander
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: blingbling]
#15810213 - 02/14/12 07:02 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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4896744
Small Town Girl
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: blingbling]
#15810257 - 02/14/12 07:12 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
blingbling said:
There is no life there is no death. Just things that come and go and the perception of it all.
how deliciously vague. there are lots of sneaky ways of obscuring your fate as a biological organism. keep up the good work
That line is quote worthy.
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Live your Life!
Edited by iThink (02/14/12 07:52 PM)
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Vaipen
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: 4896744]
#15817242 - 02/16/12 04:08 AM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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I read this book some years ago and it had quite an impact on me. Since then I have learned to use it in analysis of culture so I guess I have integrated it it in my perception of reality. In itself this idea about death and the denying or our mortality and needing transference symbols to make the mortality notion endurable has at least partly become a transference symbol to me.
After I read this book I understood the mindset of the 'suicide terrorist' much better than before. The idea or mindset needed to tell yourself that dying for a cause is sensible surely comes from the belief in an afterlife and a god who will catch you when you fall through deaths' trapdoor, thus creating a way to overcome the fear of death through dying for a cause.
I do not believe anymore that a terrorist is a religious person. I think deep within they are disconnected from god and and so lost from their original faith that the only way to get that faith back is to die for a cause in order to proof to oneself one is truly faithful. That cause being the religion or belief system that was used as a transference symbol.
Last year I had an unforgettable experience on a high dose of shrooms. The things I experienced there showed me and confirmed to me death is no final end. This experience and the information I have retained from it are now wriggling into my being as a transference symbol. Many people have had this notion from the psychedelic experience, that death is a perceptional doorway to a new state of being. Since at heart I am a solipsist I can only think that each of us will enter into another realm of being based on our beliefs during life. Or maybe we will all end up in a similar existence cause if nothing else, death is the destroyer of all assumptions about reality.
I do not believe in god but I believe instead, if 'believe' is the right word here, that god could be real to some people because we all live in a separate bubble of reality; our perception and beliefs and assumptions about reality create reality that we then perceive to be true. So god does not exist, yet there is room for god to exists, albeit in a split off universe created by someone's solipsist power.
For this reason, being a solipsist, I cannot take the god concept seriously or adopt it as a transference symbol. The concept of god as a creator would supersede my own earthly assumptions on what reality is as it flows from my solipsist nature. God can only be Schrödinger's cat, in a quantum physical terminology. Whether or not god is real depends in its entirety on the perceiver.
Since my mind is the ultimate creator itself, with god's omnipotence and omniscience, god is indubitably real and as omnipotent and omniscient in the created world of another person. Such a person, who beliefs that such a god is real, will create through this notion a transference symbol to lift the soul past deaths threshold.
For this reason no such person should go against god's commands: it is their own powerful visionary creation that loops back with a power equal to the bestowed power of god in condemnation, meaning that not following dogma could result in not reaching the sough after afterlife that the god notion was intended to provide. So you could say that god is a self-creating and self-enforcing perception of reality, just as a solipsist would reason.
If reality is a creation by my own mind, then I am god, inventing the concept of myself. Since the world around me appears to be solid enough for it to be able to hurt me in various ways, from falling off a ladder or being run over by an elephant, causing injury or death, I have to take this reality serious, just as serious as a non-solipsist takes it serious. The power of ones' own creation is the only thing that can ultimately hurt you.
God as a concept is therefore a dangerous one, because it is a self-empowering perception and the ultimate self-defeating concept. I prefer a solipsist approach to the god concept because, as it always seems to do for me, the solipsist approach solves these issues and concepts satisfactory without having to deal with debates on god existence.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Vaipen]
#15817309 - 02/16/12 04:56 AM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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I have learned to use it in analysis of culture so I guess I have integrated it it in my perception of reality. In itself this idea about death and the denying or our mortality and needing transference symbols to make the mortality notion endurable has at least partly become a transference symbol to me.
i know the feeling
Whether or not god is real depends in its entirety on the perceiver.
to an extant. the transference symbol of god can be real if you believe in it. but imo believing doesn't make something into a tangible object.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Vaipen]
#15817316 - 02/16/12 05:00 AM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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If you're a solipsist then why bother posting on a forum? Can't you talk to figments of your imagination just as easily with a personal diary?
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,605
Loc: underbelly
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: deCypher]
#15817318 - 02/16/12 05:01 AM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Cause he wants to.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Icelander]
#15817342 - 02/16/12 05:11 AM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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but the question is why would he want to? I think he is confusing idealism with solipsism because throughout hes post he is acknowledging the existence of other minds. From what I understand solipsism means only your reality exists and nothing or no one else.
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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,605
Loc: underbelly
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: soldatheero]
#15817391 - 02/16/12 05:36 AM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Maybe it's a game he plays with himself for entertainment. Pretending is fun, especially if one is all alone.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Vaipen
Psychonaut
Registered: 01/15/12
Posts: 46
Loc: Europe
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: deCypher]
#15817543 - 02/16/12 06:43 AM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
If you're a solipsist then why bother posting on a forum? Can't you talk to figments of your imagination just as easily with a personal diary?
Whatever do you mean. Are you implying something? Ah I see now.
Solipsism knows a critique. And I think when you do not know what it is you fall prone to the idea that solipsism denies the existence of other minds. This simplistic critique comes from the ego I believe, that is, your ego. It feels threatened by the very concept. In general someone's ideas can be challenging to the self but in the case of solipsism it can be quite personal.
I solved this issue with solipsism by inventing a new form of solipsism, that is still close to the original idea but deals with the existence of other minds.
The way I see it is that there is only one awareness. And each of us can claim it for him or herself. This one awareness, when divided, has access to the whole of its omniscience and omnipotence to create reality. So you can divide it into all sentient beings without it being divided or diminished in anyway.
Since reality is a personal act of using awareness to create reality and perceive it after, many realities exist, created by one awareness, mine (or yours) but all within their self-referenced bubble. Hence my reasoning about the god concept. God can be real, albeit only within your own bubble. It has no bearing on other peoples' beliefs.
So, now your ego doesn't have to be threatened by my solipsism. I can appreciate and celebrate the world as it appears to me whilst at the same time leaving your ego the dignity (or little baby syndrome if you talk Castaneda) of existing onto itself.
One awareness, indivisibly divided with each access and the power of the whole. So when I talk about me being the source of all that I perceive, I am not in conflict with anyone, not does anyone have to feel put down by the solipsist point of view.
I should probably name this animal. Maybe Neo-Solipsism or something.
Edited by Vaipen (02/16/12 06:55 AM)
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soldatheero
lastirishman
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Re: becker on the existence of a creator god [Re: Icelander]
#15817557 - 02/16/12 06:48 AM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Yeah that is true, in fact that is Meher Baba's theme of the universe, it is God who is imagining something other then himself in order to love, his philosophy is strictly idealist.
Quote:
God is Love. And Love must love. And to love there must be a Beloved. But since God is Existence infinite and eternal there is no one for Him to love but Himself. And in order to love Himself He must imagine Himself as the Beloved whom He as the Lover imagines He loves.
Beloved and Lover implies separation. And separation creates longing; and longing causes search. And the wider and the more intense the search the greater the separation and the more terrible the longing.
When longing is most intense separation is complete, and the purpose of separation, which was that Love might experience itself as Lover and Beloved, is fulfilled; and union follows. And when union is attained, the lover knows that he himself was all along the Beloved whom he loved and desired union with; and that all the impossible situations that he overcame were obstacles which he himself had placed in the path to himself.
To attain union is so impossibly difficult because it is impossible to become what you already are! Union is nothing other than knowledge of oneself as the Only One.
- "The Everything and the Nothing"
It seems very similar to solipsism but there is a key difference in that the solipsist believes. He takes only his mind to exist and no other beings, while according to Meher the other beings exist but it is instead the mind that does not exist. It mind that creates this isolated "I" in the first place.
I think Valpen is getting at this.
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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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