Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!
|
 imachavel
Stranger
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 5,619
Loc: Florida - not listed
Last seen: 5 hours, 23 minutes
|
 Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: zappaisgod]
#15785430 - 02/09/12 06:44 PM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
|
|
I disagree with Zappa a lot, but I don't disagree with that. But then you can't remove someones right to attend school.
Are all the people in this thread who have previously agreed for political or non political reasons that the economy is crap, the stock market is crap, jobs are scarce, now going to say that college graduates not finding jobs is simply happening because they SUCK? Is the reason for about 8% national unemployment because people suck? If it is, then I'd sure like to hear it. I think I may be ignorant of things, please help me be informed? By the way I don't want to be classified as reading pseudo media garbage. Umm, good links please?
You see how that looks? If we are going to discuss things like people, then actual facts should come from actual documents. I understand people here have jobs, and graduated from college. Can 13% previous unemployment all be blamed on people not being qualified for something?
|
Mind Transcribing
Candy Baron
Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2,342
Loc: Lost in Tanaris
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: imachavel]
#15787308 - 02/10/12 04:27 AM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
imachavel said:
I disagree with Zappa a lot, but I don't disagree with that. But then you can't remove someones right to attend school.
Are all the people in this thread who have previously agreed for political or non political reasons that the economy is crap, the stock market is crap, jobs are scarce, now going to say that college graduates not finding jobs is simply happening because they SUCK? Is the reason for about 8% national unemployment because people suck? If it is, then I'd sure like to hear it. I think I may be ignorant of things, please help me be informed? By the way I don't want to be classified as reading pseudo media garbage. Umm, good links please?
You see how that looks? If we are going to discuss things like people, then actual facts should come from actual documents. I understand people here have jobs, and graduated from college. Can 13% previous unemployment all be blamed on people not being qualified for something?
Nobody should have a right to go to college if they do not have the grades/money to pay for it.
|
 DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,841
Loc: Street of Dreams
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
#15788049 - 02/10/12 09:38 AM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mr. Bojangles said:
12-19 years of being a lab bitch is not my idea of my PhD paying off.
I hear this kind of stuff a lot and wonder where it comes from... If you majored in science dont you want to work in a lab? Thats what PhDs often do, they work in labs.
I would love to work in a lab, thats why Im working on a PhD.
|
Therian
Stranger
Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 409
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: Mind Transcribing]
#15788076 - 02/10/12 09:46 AM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
|
|
It is apparent that for one to assume that if another educated individual can't find employment then they either choose to endeavor in a worthless field or are lazy. Where I come from nothing could be further from the truth.
I can't think of one person that hasn't told me that their friend that has a degree in engineering, biotech, advanced chemistry, etc. and is working at a gas station, cleaning office buildings, or working at some factory for minimum wage with no benefits. There are many counties in Michigan that have a stated (not the actual)unemployment rate of 30% or higher. There have been HR personnel in the media talking about for every job opening there are often 5 THOUSAND or more applicants.
What good is an engineer when nothing is being manufactured? There was both a Bristol Meyers and Pfizer facilities that closed down. The vast majority of the employees were very highly skilled and educated scientists, biologists,pharmacologists, chemical engineers, etc. Thousands were laid off when the plants closed, and there were/are no similar jobs which required a skill set similar to those, if any at all. Therefore you can often find a chemical engineer working at the local supermarket stocking shelves, this shit is so common here I can't believe others would blame it on poor major selection in college.
Many have left the state to search for employment elsewhere, while tens of thousands of others are unable to do so. Many owe more money on their houses than they are worth, and have no options, but to take the minimum wage job. The odd thing is the only majors that often insure gainful employment post college are in the field of the "soft sciences" Do you have a degree in engineering? Well go apply at the local car wash, because you may get a job there if your lucky. Do you have a degree in social work, or minority studies? Employers are lining up to court you. If you are a bilingual social worker you can nearly set your own salary.
I guess others that haven't experienced what it is like just can't fathom it, its ridiculous. There usually are jobs in the health care sector but even those are often for lower level employees. I know a woman that received a Masters in physical therapy and can only find part time and per diem work here. Remember when you used to go to the hospital and you would have maybe ten nurses on the unit looking providing care for the patients? Now they hire one nurse that completes the paperwork and 10 nurse aids. The same goes for those with degrees in PT, OT, etc. The need for those with advanced degrees has been minimized replacing them with low paid aids or assistants. Great money saving move for the hospitals, not so much for the patients care.
I'll have to post pics of some of the news stories here where xyz company is hiring 5 new line workers. The application process starts at 9am. The media is often on site at 7am to video the line of thousands of potential workers that starts at the building winds around and ends up far out in the parking lot, and this is two hours before the process even begins. Yeah, Americans are fucking lazy and want a handout, they have all these options but just want everything given to them.
|
 Mr. Bojangles
Breathe In
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1,339
Loc: The Dirty
Last seen: 6 minutes, 56 seconds
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: DieCommie] 1
#15788610 - 02/10/12 01:27 PM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Mr. Bojangles said:
12-19 years of being a lab bitch is not my idea of my PhD paying off.
I hear this kind of stuff a lot and wonder where it comes from... If you majored in science dont you want to work in a lab? Thats what PhDs often do, they work in labs.
I would love to work in a lab, thats why Im working on a PhD.
Yes you want to work in a lab, but you want to be the Principal Investigator (PI) not their bitch, which you essentially are if you aren't a PI. You want to be the one figuring out the problems, coming up with projects...you want to be the boss. You want to choose when you're in the lab, not forced to be there around the clock. As a PhD candidate and postdoc you're pretty much the grunt worker. Yeah you might have your own project/thesis and everything but it's under the care and watchful eye of your PI. You also get paid about $100k less than a PI if you're a PhD student or postdoc.
So let me re-phrase. Personally I would hate running assays, columns, and dead end reactions for 12-19 years for 20-50k a year. I'd much rather get people (ie - grad students and postdocs) to do my shit for me (or do it myself, when I feel like it), choose my own hours, take most of the credit (my name appears on all publications coming out of my lab and I get all the funding and determine how to divvy it up), and get paid 100-400k a year. That's what I would like my over a fucking decade of enslavement to earn me...and right now it's not doing that for ~90% of the science PhD's out there.
--------------------
"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
-Fracois Marie Voltaire
|
DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,841
Loc: Street of Dreams
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
#15789213 - 02/10/12 03:37 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Personally I would hate running assays, columns, and dead end reactions for 12-19 years for 20-50k a year. I'd much rather get people (ie - grad students and postdocs) to do my shit for me (or do it myself, when I feel like it), choose my own hours, take most of the credit (my name appears on all publications coming out of my lab and I get all the funding and determine how to divvy it up), and get paid 100-400k a year. That's what I would like my over a fucking decade of enslavement to earn me...and right now it's not doing that for ~90% of the science PhD's out there.
I think you have some incredibly high and unwarranted expectations there. I think that is the primary reason that most people are unhappy with their degree, they expect the degree to be a get a high pay job for free ticket and its not and it should never be billed as such.
|
Mr. Bojangles
Breathe In
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1,339
Loc: The Dirty
Last seen: 6 minutes, 56 seconds
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: DieCommie]
#15789783 - 02/10/12 06:00 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
It's not high expectations at all. Whats lofty about wanting to make a good bit more money than someone with their bachelors when I have my PhD? To have more independence, job security, and freedom? Is it wrong to expect a payoff? Have you ever worked in research before? What I described is exactly what happens in academic research all across the country. The money isn't the main factor, of course, but you expect to get more than 50k a year if you spend all of your young adult life in school.
And I know how much my old PI's used to make, thanks to Georgia's awesome open salary database  It's the fact that if you go on to get your PhD in certain fields, you come out making just as much money and doing the same work as those who just came out with their BS.
The primary reason is discussed pretty well in a few articles from Nature less than a year ago:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v472/n7343/full/472259b.html
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110420/full/472276a.html
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110420/full/472280a.html
http://www.nature.com/naturejobs/science/articles/10.1038/nj7343-381a
Quote:
Most PhD students are striving toward a tenured professorship, but academia just can’t take all these graduates. In 1973, 55 percent of PhD recipients had tenure-track positions within six years of earning their PhDs. In 2006, merely 15 percent of recent graduates found themselves in this position.
15% of PhD's get tenure track positions within SIX YEARS. Six years is quite a long time to be sitting on a PhD without a good job to pay it off. And only 15% were making it pay off after that time. It wears on you man...if you're fine with doing someone else's project, working in someone else's lab with co-workers whom you did not pick..then be my guest. There's just so many PhD's, there's plenty of work for you but with less pay than ever before and it's even harder to land that secure, well paying position.
--------------------
"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
-Fracois Marie Voltaire
|
DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,841
Loc: Street of Dreams
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
#15789816 - 02/10/12 06:10 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
I know all about the job prospects for PhDs. There have been more PhDs than tenure track positions available since about the beginning of the cold war. Do you think that a PhD entities you to a tenure track position? Thats not a reasonable expectation, and hasn't been in generations.
|
Mr. Bojangles
Breathe In
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1,339
Loc: The Dirty
Last seen: 6 minutes, 56 seconds
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: DieCommie]
#15789848 - 02/10/12 06:18 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
It's what I'd like, or something that pays off in the long run and not the longer run...with industry shriveling up there's nothing left but postdocs in most cases. And your boy does not want to be stuck in a postdoc, it's like career purgatory.
--------------------
"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
-Fracois Marie Voltaire
|
DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,841
Loc: Street of Dreams
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
#15789909 - 02/10/12 06:36 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
Well, a lot of football players would love to go pro. And a lot of guitar players would love a hit album. The difference between you and them is you can fall back one a decent 50k lab job while they cannot.
|
Mr. Bojangles
Breathe In
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1,339
Loc: The Dirty
Last seen: 6 minutes, 56 seconds
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: DieCommie]
#15790164 - 02/10/12 07:44 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
I can also get an even better salary by being a chemical engineer rather than a biochemist, go to school for one extra year to get the dual degree, get hired anywhere and get paid significantly more with bunches more free time doing exactly what I wanted to do with biochemistry in the first place 
I just don't understand reasoning to get a PhD in the sciences today if not for the money. You want to work in a lab? Go for it. Get your BS and work in a lab; practically all non-PhD positions are lab positions. You want to broaden your knowledge? You'll be doing stuff on your own while completing your PhD anyway so why not do it while earning some more money with that BS. You want to focus on something you enjoy? Same as before. You'll also have more time since most BS jobs are 9-5's. Want to network? You'll be able to go to more conferences with the extra money and free time of a job and you'll be out there in the field just like you would be in your PhD work.
Without the prospect of tenure-track or similar jobs...what other appeal is there to a PhD? The prestige of being called doctor? Not worth the 12-19 years I just put in. You're virtually free labor for academia when you could be working a steady salary with actual [normal] hours with your BS, putting yourself in more opportunities to open more doors and doing pretty much the same thing your PhD buddies are doing at the same time.
--------------------
"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
-Fracois Marie Voltaire
|
Therian
Stranger
Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 409
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
#15790793 - 02/10/12 10:50 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I'd much rather get people (ie - grad students and postdocs) to do my shit for me (or do it myself, when I feel like it), choose my own hours, take most of the credit (my name appears on all publications coming out of my lab and I get all the funding and determine how to divvy it up), and get paid 100-400k a year. That's what I would like my over a fucking decade of enslavement to earn me...and right now it's not doing that for ~90% of the science PhD's out there.
Honestly you shouldn't bitch. First and foremost, you are working in your field. Secondly, I don't see how working in a lab could ever be considered "grunt work". Also from the above quote it seems like you would enjoy becoming the very douchebag you complain about. "Have everyone else do the work, and you get all the credit"? It seems to me as though your aspirations of becoming the douchebag have come to fruition.
Come to my state with your degree and you would be a dockworker somewhere making eight bucks an hour with no benefits. You would be performing real grunt work inhaling diesel fumes, manually lifting tens of thousands of pounds of freight in a non environmentally controlled environment, where no one gives a fuck about your degree, delusions of grandeur, or your desire for a tenure track position. The idea of the phenomenon of tenure its self is absolute bullshit.
|
meams
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 16,172
Loc: In a Tree
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
#15791964 - 02/11/12 08:54 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mr. Bojangles said:
So let me re-phrase. Personally I would hate running assays, columns, and dead end reactions for 12-19 years for 20-50k a year. I'd much rather get people (ie - grad students and postdocs) to do my shit for me (or do it myself, when I feel like it), choose my own hours, take most of the credit (my name appears on all publications coming out of my lab and I get all the funding and determine how to divvy it up), and get paid 100-400k a year. That's what I would like my over a fucking decade of enslavement to earn me...and right now it's not doing that for ~90% of the science PhD's out there.
Guess what? I bet your old PIs went through this process: working their way up the ladder. If you're unwilling to do this - you should just drop out of the labor force. Not only are there more graduates with PhDs now, but government spending on R&D is being cut back, which means that people with expierience (which you lack, because you're unwilling to be a grunt) will be competing for the same low-wage lab jobs you're unwilling to take. With that combination how do you ever expect to achieve anything?
Besides - wtf do you know about being a PI? I feel like you need some experience working with projects before you can adequately become a project manager. That's why certifications require experience levels:
-PMP (Project Management Professional) requires 4 years PM experience.
-CGFM (Certified Government FInancial Manager) requires 2 years FM experience.
I can guarentee you that I could pass the 3 CGFM tests right now - but I don't have the requisite experience, so I'm stuck without my cert for the next 1.5yr. But that's ok, because i'm putting in my dues at the low-wage, low-skilled positions, proving to my superiors that I'M the one they can rely on for prompt, quality work. Then, when better positions become available and they're looking at their internal candidates (which most smart companies are doing right now) they'll know who to turn to: me.
You should put in your work at the lower level, so when (if) the economy strengthens and R&D resumes previous levels, you'll have the requisite experience to be a PI.
I know for a fact right now that our biodefense is lacking. I read in the NYT (or maybe WSJ) that we have adequate stores for like.... one type of biological attack agent - and there are so fucking many of them. that's the type of job sector you could pursue - but you've determiend that you're "above" the grunt work.
... just a bad outlook.
did I just wake up? I feel like i just rambled for like 8 paragraphs.
|
Mr. Bojangles
Breathe In
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1,339
Loc: The Dirty
Last seen: 6 minutes, 56 seconds
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: meams]
#15792385 - 02/11/12 11:11 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Therian said:
Honestly you shouldn't bitch. First and foremost, you are working in your field. Secondly, I don't see how working in a lab could ever be considered "grunt work". Also from the above quote it seems like you would enjoy becoming the very douchebag you complain about. "Have everyone else do the work, and you get all the credit"? It seems to me as though your aspirations of becoming the douchebag have come to fruition.
Have you ever worked in a lab before? Imagine doing the same assay over and over and over again for months, maybe years. Have you ever had to deal with TEMED or mercaptoethanol for weeks upon weeks on end? It's really enjoyable and it's not something you really want to be doing after your just spent 6 years of PhD work doing it. That is grunt work. You're the person that does all the menial processes. Just because you work in a lab does not mean you aren't doing something that is trivially easy and boring. I'm also not calling the PI's douchebags, it's the way academia works today. There is a hierarchy system inherent to pretty much all research labs across America. Someone has to manage the projects, manage the labs...that's the PI. They provide the resources, the guidance and the space...and in return their grad students and postdocs crank out legitimate research for them so they can get more funding.
I know a lot about PI's. I've worked very closely with PI's for the past 8 years or so. Getting your PhD is working projects. It's nothing but a series of very long projects. I think the PI's you work around and the PI's I work around are quite different because Principal Investigators don't really need any certifications for anything in my field. If you work in clinical trials you probably need your CPI but that's about it.
Quote:
meams said:You should put in your work at the lower level, so when (if) the economy strengthens and R&D resumes previous levels, you'll have the requisite experience to be a PI.
And that is your PhD work. It has less to do with requisite experience than a supply/demand problem that isn't getting any better.
Quote:
meams said:
But that's ok, because i'm putting in my dues at the low-wage, low-skilled positions, proving to my superiors that I'M the one they can rely on for prompt, quality work. Then, when better positions become available and they're looking at their internal candidates (which most smart companies are doing right now) they'll know who to turn to: me.
I'm not arguing AT ALL with this. This is pretty much what I'm talking about. The work a PhD does has essentially turned into low-wage, moderate-skill work. After you've just spend 6 years doing even lower-wage, moderate-skill work. If you can go and work in a lab with your BS (which you most certainly can), put in the grunt work, show your superiors that you're doing quality stuff, do your own research when you can and have good ideas...and then move up the ladder because of that...then WHY, pray tell, spend the extra time and resources in getting your PhD?
Please understand that I'm not about taking an "easy way out" on this. I hope I didn't convey that message. You need to do the menial tasks, I know. You pay your dues and the dues pay off...but PhD's are not paying off. Getting a PhD is just a way of elongating that time of doing menial tasks. You come out of grad school 6 years later only to be doing slightly higher grunt work than the BS holder who came out 6 years earlier and is now higher on the ladder than you are because he put his time in with the lab/company and showed to everyone that he can do it. Not to mention the BS holder had a higher pay during those 6 years and more time off/benefits.
--------------------
"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
-Fracois Marie Voltaire
Edited by Mr. Bojangles (02/11/12 11:18 AM)
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,560
Last seen: 6 minutes, 32 seconds
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: Mr. Bojangles] 2
#15792413 - 02/11/12 11:17 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
For a great many people post graduate education is a means to avoid adulthood. Which is why there is a glut of PhDs. Stop wasting your time and become a plumber. By the way that will give you a whole new perspective on what "grunt work" is. Also a much better paycheck, especially if you can pass the test to get licensed. No dissertation or defense of such required.
--------------------
|
DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,841
Loc: Street of Dreams
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: zappaisgod]
#15792516 - 02/11/12 11:39 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
For a great many people post graduate education is a means to avoid adulthood. Which is why there is a glut of PhDs.
Heh, honestly that is a big reason why I am working on a PhD. Its fun, my best job ever, I get paid and I avoid adulthood for a few more years.
|
imachavel
Stranger
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 5,619
Loc: Florida - not listed
Last seen: 5 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: DieCommie]
#15795444 - 02/11/12 10:13 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
|
|
I understand your point of view, and don't mean to agree with everyone else so much. Many degrees, not just PHDs, are generally becoming more and more worthless, and putting in grunt work, and having an 8 year degree, should be worth quite a bit. But dude look at your prospective point of view, Borders was a billion dollar company, and went bankrupt, they don't exist.
These days having a job in your field goes a long ways, and also consider the state you live in. Some people these days get a PHD, live in a state where the career is rarely appreciated, and then don't get a job in that field at all, and seriously have a shit job. Now I know you said putting in the grunt work is very important, and didn't skip it. But think about it, I know very little about chemistry or bio chemistry, physics or like wise science for that matter. But I do understand, an over seers job will be the same in a science field as a grunt. His job will be over seeing projects. The pay and position status might not be rewarding, but you are talking about being a chemical engineer.
When does being a chemical engineer come easy? A basic chemistry project, involves many things, temperature, variables, basic PH, linking molecule chains together into structures that could be carbon based, other based, etc. Then purification comes into process. If you create a chemical, pharmaceutical, bio chemical, it is chained together based on molecular compatibility, then it needs to be tested in a thousand different conditions, at 66 degrees F, 67, 68, 69, 66 with different humidity, 67 with different humidity, 68 with different humidity, etc. No is trying to explain to you that leveling up is not important if you have an 8 year degree. You are very well spoken and I enjoy reading your posts very much, I have been very well informed on some job characteristics based on your posts about PHD expectations.
No degree right now is worth what it used to be. No one is getting a free ride. You could have much less. Stay with the grunt work and you could easily be the engineer you want to be. Remember an engineer can possibly get in one a patent process, where you get royalties of whatever you engineer. Although I'm not sure if that applies to chemistry the same as it applies to other fields of engineering where patents come into play, just saying you have options.
|
fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 23,674
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 5 hours, 22 minutes
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: imachavel]
#15796080 - 02/12/12 01:45 AM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
imachavel said:
Some people these days get a PHD, live in a state where the career is rarely appreciated, and then don't get a job in that field at all, and seriously have a shit job.
These people sound like morons who never understood that there are 49 other states and plenty of other countries out there. 
--------------------
  
 
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
|
Luddite
cognitive dissident
Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,284
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: zappaisgod]
#15796538 - 02/12/12 07:06 AM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Do you know why a college degree is worth less today than it used to be? Because liberals thought it was the schools and/or the credentials that mattered. When the universe of college attendees is expanded to include mediocrities, as if teaching a dog to dance will get him in the Joffrie, then a college degree will become a badge of mediocrity
Sterilizing undesirables can greatly improve the country.
|
imachavel
Stranger
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 5,619
Loc: Florida - not listed
Last seen: 5 hours, 23 minutes
|
Re: take an interesting look at a conversation I was having with a friend of mine about graduate jobs [Re: Luddite]
#15802347 - 02/13/12 09:36 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
you mean like executing murderers instead of giving them life in prison?
| |
|
|
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Phred, Prisoner#1
545 topic views. 3 members, 2 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic ]
| | |
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Shop for: 
Edit 
Reply 
