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 RigVedaLXVII.Soma
Bacteri/Phyc/Bry/Myc/ology
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 380
Loc: Michigan
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 Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question
#15801922 - 02/13/12 06:34 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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This is only the third time I have even attempted to view fungi under the microscope. I have been more of a moss and Lichen guy, but every time I attempt to view fungi under the microscope I feel like I accomplish nothing..
I was wondering if someone can check out these micrographs and see if what I am viewing is actually Basidia or just random strands of sterile hyphae. I am thinking that some are basidia because they appear to have the clamp connections. And they cant be Cheilocystidia because according to MusrhoomExpert's Micheal Kuo, Schizophyllum commune (what I am viewing) is absent of cystidia.
All of the Above seem to have clamp connections. Am I right?
The above two are just to show the cool pattern the woven hyphae strands produce.
And this is a zoom out of the end of the gill where the suspected basidia images were taken.
One other question I have is, I have another microscope with a 25x ocular lens, and 3 objects the highest being 40x. So that would be a combined magnification of 1000x. Now should I use Immersion Oil on this lens even though it isn't a 100x lens? or will I damage it? I can't find any information regarding this, so I am holding off on using it until.
Thanks in advance. Hope someone can help.
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     "While clinging to the moronic belief that they constitute a "counterculture," they share our society's overriding urge for expediency. They make no attempt to learn about the organisms they eat and it always struck me as ironic that people with such a low level of consciousness should be seeking "higher consciousness." -David Arora
"Man is placed in the middle between two infinities - the infinitely great and the infinitely little - both of which are equally incomprehensible to him." -Pascal
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Edited by RigVedaLXVII.Soma (02/13/12 06:54 AM)
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riverdweller
Misanthropic Voyeur
Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 1,585
Loc: Oregon, USA 
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 Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
#15801984 - 02/13/12 07:13 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Hi, I'm pretty new with a microscope, but I believe clamp connections will look like an elbow joint. I thought I was seeing them until Alan or someone posted pics of obvious ones.
Here are some examples from wiki because I have none in my photos to share.
WIKI
WIKI
Hope that helps a bit, and nice microscopy photos.
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I'm still here 
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RigVedaLXVII.Soma
Bacteri/Phyc/Bry/Myc/ology
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 380
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: riverdweller]
#15802005 - 02/13/12 07:24 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Awesome. Yeah that really did help to clear things up a bit on clamp connections. I appreciate that. And In fact I definitely saw that occurring, I just didn't take any shots of it since I didn't think anything of it.
Thanks for the compliment on the pics, but they always could be way better, It saddens me cuz it makes it seem like my scope has horrible resolution, but its because of the cheap camera attachment I bought that has a sad .3 megapixels. LOL. I think Ill start using my Sony digi cam too.
But does this mean you agree my images are indeed basidia?? And if so does anyone know what the little dots towards the tops are? First I thought they were spores but then I threw that conclusion out and thought they were the clamp connections...
Hard shit. But I wont give up over these obstacles.
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"While clinging to the moronic belief that they constitute a "counterculture," they share our society's overriding urge for expediency. They make no attempt to learn about the organisms they eat and it always struck me as ironic that people with such a low level of consciousness should be seeking "higher consciousness." -David Arora
"Man is placed in the middle between two infinities - the infinitely great and the infinitely little - both of which are equally incomprehensible to him." -Pascal
MyPostImage Gallery Trade ListSpores I Am Looking For Seeds I am Looking For Solanaceae, Amanitaceae
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The Thinker
Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 2,610
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
#15802141 - 02/13/12 08:27 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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I think the dots are granular encrustations, occuring in a couple places in Schizophyllum commune. you may be looking at abhymenial hairs, located between the "gills" of this species. You can see them here.
Quote:
Hairs on the abhymenial surface of the split in the gills with slenderly clavate tips or some bifurcately branched at the apex, in some specimens the tips incrusted with fine granules
Quote:
abhymenial hairs stout, simple, hyaline, thick-walled, and often granular incrusted
You also may show some basidia in there, i'm not really sure. That species may not be the best to start off with, its not a true "gilled" mushroom. nice pictures, a hand held camera can get finer pictures than that attachment though
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RigVedaLXVII.Soma
Bacteri/Phyc/Bry/Myc/ology
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 380
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: The Thinker]
#15802172 - 02/13/12 08:40 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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I think you are absolutely right. Thanks a lot. That really helps!
Ill see if you can get some of the basidia still, and post them.
And may I ask where you got those citation? Those are one of the first that gives that much detail about the microscopy of a species.
And yeah, you are right, Schizophyllum doesn't seem like a good fungi to start with, but its the only gilled fungi I have. Even if they are a split gilled fungi. I only have some polypores and these in my herbarium right now. So I guess its better than nothing.
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"While clinging to the moronic belief that they constitute a "counterculture," they share our society's overriding urge for expediency. They make no attempt to learn about the organisms they eat and it always struck me as ironic that people with such a low level of consciousness should be seeking "higher consciousness." -David Arora
"Man is placed in the middle between two infinities - the infinitely great and the infinitely little - both of which are equally incomprehensible to him." -Pascal
MyPostImage Gallery Trade ListSpores I Am Looking For Seeds I am Looking For Solanaceae, Amanitaceae
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riverdweller
Misanthropic Voyeur
Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 1,585
Loc: Oregon, USA
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
#15802267 - 02/13/12 09:10 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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you can go to the store like hungrygoldfish did and buy some right off the shelf!
I was a little mad at myself for not thinking of that when I got my scope.
Agaricus bisporus -
"The specific epithet bispora distinguishes the two-spored basidia from four-spored varieties"
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I'm still here
Edited by riverdweller (02/13/12 09:14 AM)
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The Thinker
Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 2,610
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
#15802363 - 02/13/12 09:41 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
RigVedaLXVII.Soma said:
And may I ask where you got those citation? Those are one of the first that gives that much detail about the microscopy of a species.
got it from MycoBank
http://www.mycobank.org/MycoTaxo.aspx?Link=T&Rec=121903 (S alneum = S commune)
MycoBank is nice when they have descriptions because comparison is easy, but half the species have no info on them. I had actually looked through (with journal access) some papers on Schizophyllum only to look at mycobank and see they had compiled the descriptions, plus others..
you can find most species' microscopic info pretty easily by book or online-by floras, monographs, university websites, journal access to articles, google books
here are some free monographs out of your area:
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=fung1tc;page=browse;id=navbarbrowselink;cginame=text-idx
If you have trouble finding information pm me
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RigVedaLXVII.Soma
Bacteri/Phyc/Bry/Myc/ology
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 380
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: The Thinker]
#15802666 - 02/13/12 11:17 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Awesome thanks a lot. Cant go wrong with Alexander H Smith. I have all his published books, but never gathered any of his hundreds of articles and other works.
Mycobank seems pretty like an awesome reference, I really like the Microscopy illustrations they have on some pages. A lot of the good ones are from Mycologia, luckily I have all the issues from 2002-2011 I got from torrent. Too much to look through so I haven't had a lot of time to go through the most of it. Visual illustrations really help a lot, that's what I want to look for the most. I wish people still drew illustrations of their observations like in the old days before cameras. Illustrations show something pictures, and words can't.
I will definitely message you if I need some help, I really appreciate the offer.
You guys are really helpful!
But this basidia search is killing me! 2 days of no sleep isnt helping. 
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"While clinging to the moronic belief that they constitute a "counterculture," they share our society's overriding urge for expediency. They make no attempt to learn about the organisms they eat and it always struck me as ironic that people with such a low level of consciousness should be seeking "higher consciousness." -David Arora
"Man is placed in the middle between two infinities - the infinitely great and the infinitely little - both of which are equally incomprehensible to him." -Pascal
MyPostImage Gallery Trade ListSpores I Am Looking For Seeds I am Looking For Solanaceae, Amanitaceae
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riverdweller
Misanthropic Voyeur
Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 1,585
Loc: Oregon, USA
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
#15802752 - 02/13/12 11:38 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
RigVedaLXVII.Soma said:
I wish people still drew illustrations of their observations like in the old days before cameras. Illustrations show something pictures, and words can't.
You should look up Oluna and Adolf Ceska on MushroomObserver.org
They almost always include drawings with their observations. 
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I'm still here
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gsharpnolack
Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 657
Loc: Washington State US
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
#15802792 - 02/13/12 11:47 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
I have another microscope with a 25x ocular lens, and 3 objects the highest being 40x. So that would be a combined magnification of 1000x.
Your microscope should have an eyepiece (with magnification) which is multiplied with the objective you're using. For instance, if you had a 10x eyepiece in with a 40x objective, that would be a total magnification of 400x.
Quote:
Now should I use Immersion Oil on this lens even though it isn't a 100x lens? or will I damage it?
Immersion oil is used with an oil objective only. There are oil objectives that aren't 100x, but you'd know that by checking the specifications on your make/model.
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One thing that can improve our planet: Personally creating a small amount of special atmosphere within the home place.
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RigVedaLXVII.Soma
Bacteri/Phyc/Bry/Myc/ology
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 380
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: riverdweller]
#15803165 - 02/13/12 01:00 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Thanks, Oluna and Adolf Ceska's illustrations are pretty good. All there observations are definitely all around good references. That should be standard.
@Gsharpnolack
Okay cool, I guess Ill have to contact the manufacturer since it doesn't say anything about it in the specs.
@Anyone and Everyone,
Anyone know of any illustrations or micrographs of Schizophyllum commune? I can't be the first to upload a micrograph of the species... I notice SEM shots, but that's a whole other world compared to looking through a compound scope.
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"While clinging to the moronic belief that they constitute a "counterculture," they share our society's overriding urge for expediency. They make no attempt to learn about the organisms they eat and it always struck me as ironic that people with such a low level of consciousness should be seeking "higher consciousness." -David Arora
"Man is placed in the middle between two infinities - the infinitely great and the infinitely little - both of which are equally incomprehensible to him." -Pascal
MyPostImage Gallery Trade ListSpores I Am Looking For Seeds I am Looking For Solanaceae, Amanitaceae
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RigVedaLXVII.Soma
Bacteri/Phyc/Bry/Myc/ology
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 380
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
#15803279 - 02/13/12 01:21 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Great... Im probably gonna have a damn schizophyllum infection in my nasal cavity after handling this specimen all day long....
Awesome...    
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"While clinging to the moronic belief that they constitute a "counterculture," they share our society's overriding urge for expediency. They make no attempt to learn about the organisms they eat and it always struck me as ironic that people with such a low level of consciousness should be seeking "higher consciousness." -David Arora
"Man is placed in the middle between two infinities - the infinitely great and the infinitely little - both of which are equally incomprehensible to him." -Pascal
MyPostImage Gallery Trade ListSpores I Am Looking For Seeds I am Looking For Solanaceae, Amanitaceae
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RigVedaLXVII.Soma
Bacteri/Phyc/Bry/Myc/ology
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 380
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question *DELETED* [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
#15803327 - 02/13/12 01:30 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Post deleted by RigVedaLXVII.SomaReason for deletion: Double post.
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The Thinker
Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 2,610
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
#15803500 - 02/13/12 02:09 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
There are about a dozen reported cases of human infections in the sinus passages of young children whose immune systems were not fully developed.
Schizophyllum commune is cultivated and eaten in Malaysia, where it is known as “cendawan kukur.”
-- http://mushroomobserver.org/name/show_name_description/23
I have handled this species quite a bit and i'm fine, I am sure thousands of others have as well. don't freak out, I remember ignorantly taking a huge sniff the first time I found it only to read about the possible harms later that night.
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RigVedaLXVII.Soma
Bacteri/Phyc/Bry/Myc/ology
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 380
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: The Thinker]
#15803563 - 02/13/12 02:23 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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HAHA thank god...
Thats the main reason I was freaking, and I was intentionally streaking the lamellae to check for spore presence, and even chewed on a little piece to add to observations.
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"While clinging to the moronic belief that they constitute a "counterculture," they share our society's overriding urge for expediency. They make no attempt to learn about the organisms they eat and it always struck me as ironic that people with such a low level of consciousness should be seeking "higher consciousness." -David Arora
"Man is placed in the middle between two infinities - the infinitely great and the infinitely little - both of which are equally incomprehensible to him." -Pascal
MyPostImage Gallery Trade ListSpores I Am Looking For Seeds I am Looking For Solanaceae, Amanitaceae
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TimmiT
Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 2,431
Loc: Victoria 
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Re: Too be, or Not to be [Basidia], That is the Question [Re: RigVedaLXVII.Soma]
#15804005 - 02/13/12 03:53 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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An oil immersion objective should be marked as such. It's unlikely that a low power objective would be an oil immersion. Only use oil on an objective that is specifically marked as such, otherwise you could damage the objective.
Also, the optimal magnification range for a particular objective is based on it's numerical aperture (NA). The lower limit of this range is 500 x NA and the upper limit is 1000 x NA. The NA is usually marked on the objective.
For example:
The numerical aperture of my 100X objective is 1.25
So, the range of useful magnification is 625X (500 x 1.25) to 1250X (1000 x 1.25)
If I use a 10X eyepiece with my 100X objective I get 1000X magnification... which falls within the useful range.
If I use a 20X eyepiece with my 100X objective I get 2000X magnification... which exceeds the maximum useful magnification and results in empty magnification
Conversely using a 10X eyepiece with say a 4X or 10X objective gives a magnification below the optimal range, so you wouldn't be getting the most out of the objective.
Here's another pic showing clamp connection
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"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon
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RigVedaLXVII.Soma
Bacteri/Phyc/Bry/Myc/ology
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 380
Loc: Michigan
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I found something questionable here... [Re: TimmiT]
#15812237 - 02/15/12 05:40 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Hello folks, I took a small amount of the fibrils that fill the pileus and made a slide. I was quite shocked to find something stuck in the woven hyphae threads.
It appears to me what looks like a small community of cocci green algae using the fibrils as a comfy little home. If this is indeed algae, could you consider this a parasitic relationship?
this is strange because Schizophyllum is definitely not a Lichenized fungi.. so I bet the hyphae isn't benefiting from the algae, But isn't it possible that it may be benefiting from it? Doesn't hyphae absorb all nutritious organic, and sometimes inorganic, material it comes in contact with?
Here is what looks like maybe a Pollen, I suppose?
And just the edge of the Hyphae fibrils of the pileus.
I will continue to update with more images of various sections of the Schizophylum commune specimen I have. I have a small pot of coffee made, and feeling good, so I will try to work with this specimen as much as I can today.
And thanks for the great information TimmiT, don't think I didn't appreciate it because I didn't respond right away, I was trying to leave the last post as someone else so I could bump the thread without posting after myself.
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"While clinging to the moronic belief that they constitute a "counterculture," they share our society's overriding urge for expediency. They make no attempt to learn about the organisms they eat and it always struck me as ironic that people with such a low level of consciousness should be seeking "higher consciousness." -David Arora
"Man is placed in the middle between two infinities - the infinitely great and the infinitely little - both of which are equally incomprehensible to him." -Pascal
MyPostImage Gallery Trade ListSpores I Am Looking For Seeds I am Looking For Solanaceae, Amanitaceae
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TimmiT
Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 2,431
Loc: Victoria
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The pollen thing looks like a conidium from an Ascomycete fungus. Probably some ubiquitous species picked up from the environment. Check out Alternaria as an example.
The algae are probably growing on the Schizophyllum rather than in any sort of symbiotic relationship. Just like an old polypore that has turned green with age (from algal growth).
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"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon
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RigVedaLXVII.Soma
Bacteri/Phyc/Bry/Myc/ology
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 380
Loc: Michigan
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Re: I found something questionable here... [Re: TimmiT]
#15812417 - 02/15/12 07:01 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Yeah that is what I figured, but wouldn't that represent an Intercellular [as apposed to intracellular] Parasitic relationship? The algae using the fungal hyphae as a home. Or would it have to have the criteria of only being able to survive on the said fungi to be considered parasitic?
And that Alternaria is pretty cool. I notice it on many places on such a small area. Thats pretty awesome! Bad ass that you knew that!
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"While clinging to the moronic belief that they constitute a "counterculture," they share our society's overriding urge for expediency. They make no attempt to learn about the organisms they eat and it always struck me as ironic that people with such a low level of consciousness should be seeking "higher consciousness." -David Arora
"Man is placed in the middle between two infinities - the infinitely great and the infinitely little - both of which are equally incomprehensible to him." -Pascal
MyPostImage Gallery Trade ListSpores I Am Looking For Seeds I am Looking For Solanaceae, Amanitaceae
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TimmiT
Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 2,431
Loc: Victoria
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It would be classed as a commensalistic relationship, with one partner (the alga) benefiting and the other (the fungus) remaining neutral. It's a fairly weak relationship in the sense that the algae don't need the fungus for survival.
Parasitism is defined by one partner benefiting to the detriment of the other (causing harm). I don't think the fungus is affected negatively by the algae.
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"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon
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