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Offlinecurious mouse
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Started going to therapy....
    #15801092 - 02/12/12 11:09 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

I sent this e-mail to my therapist...
sadly not much of a response came from her.

Quote:

My thoughts tonight are pretty daunting. It's as if I'm subjecting myself to psychological torture by brooding over past failures/mistakes and worrying about what may or may not happen in the future.
I'm not sure it's a struggle of how to go about change (I understand the mechanisms: starting with baby steps, setting goals, good diet/exercise, reward accomplishments, maintaining a support system). I think it's more of me being too stubborn to conform to societies "demands" and lacking the ability to invoke my will to do things that aren't immediately gratifying. Basically, I'm a coddled spoiled brat with no discipline. While at the same time being a self-righteous, self-loathing, pretentious prick, that thinks my own suffering is a better alternative then taking part in, and essentially propagating, the systems and social structures that I perceive to be an abomination.

Now I think I'm just spewing rationales that allow me to externalize the causes of my own misdeeds, resolving any responsibility/guilt, which in turn perpetuates the problem.

I'm starting to think I'm some sort of masochist, but the part of me that gets any pleasure from all of "this" must be subconscious.




Edited by curious mouse (02/12/12 11:10 PM)


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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: curious mouse]
    #15801161 - 02/12/12 11:27 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Wow, sounds like something echoing out of my own mind.  Give it here brother.  :rockon:

I have found mental health professionals to be abysmally disappointing.  When I told one about my use of psychedelics, he literally said to me, "I think what's happening is, you take the drug, and you feel better, but it saps your brain and makes you feel worse, so you want to take the drug again, and this is why you feel depressed."  :freshwtf: :niggawhat:


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Offlinecurious mouse
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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: Comradez]
    #15801187 - 02/12/12 11:34 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

I can't quite figure out what to reasonably expect from myself or others.


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OfflineAll We Perceive
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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: curious mouse]
    #15801392 - 02/13/12 12:49 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Sounds like you're on the right track.  However, email exchanges is a poor method of communication in the therapy context.  Talk about these things in person, and assuming your therapist is decent, you should make some headway.


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Offlinecurious mouse
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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: All We Perceive]
    #15801415 - 02/13/12 12:55 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

All We Perceive said:
Sounds like you're on the right track.  However, email exchanges is a poor method of communication in the therapy context.  Talk about these things in person, and assuming your therapist is decent, you should make some headway.




I've expressed the same sentiments in person. Only in person I ramble and am not as articulate, so I thought I might share more "concrete" thoughts that I wrote.

I think what's happening is that my therapist knows that I'm having an existential crisis while at the same time having pretty good awareness of myself.

The answer is staring myself and everyone in the face, it's just a matter of taking action.


Edited by curious mouse (02/13/12 12:56 AM)


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OfflineAll We Perceive
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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: curious mouse]
    #15801441 - 02/13/12 01:05 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Your therapist doesn't seem very skilled.  He or she should be able to direct your communication into a pretty coherent flow and then help you make a plan to achieve the goals of your desire.  Tbh, your email is really super generalized, and I don't think it's answerable to your satisfaction.


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Re: Started going to therapy.... *DELETED* [Re: curious mouse]
    #15801442 - 02/13/12 01:05 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

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Re: Started going to therapy.... *DELETED* [Re: curious mouse]
    #15801462 - 02/13/12 01:12 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

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Offlinecurious mouse
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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: All We Perceive]
    #15801506 - 02/13/12 01:35 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

All We Perceive said:
Your therapist doesn't seem very skilled.  He or she should be able to direct your communication into a pretty coherent flow and then help you make a plan to achieve the goals of your desire.  Tbh, your email is really super generalized, and I don't think it's answerable to your satisfaction.




I don't want an answer that is to my satisfaction. I want an uninhibited honest opinion.

The thing about my goals are that, they are either ill-defined or unreasonable.

I'm not fit for being a modern human in a developed society that relies on gasoline powered vehicles to deliver food to us. Surviving has become so easy, but living has become an exceedingly complex struggle.

At what point is it super generalized? Any further detail that would need expounding on would just engage more wasteful mental masturbation.


Edited by curious mouse (02/13/12 01:40 AM)


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Offlinecurious mouse
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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15801509 - 02/13/12 01:37 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
Quote:

curious mouse said:
I sent this e-mail to my therapist...
sadly not much of a response came from her.





Have a go at writing a response to yourself from the therapist's position. What would have been an adequate response that would have been more satisfactory to you?




I'm not necessarily looking for a satisfactory response. I'm looking for the truth. I just feel like we're all constantly lying to ourselves and each other. Or at the least, suppressing the truth.


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Offlinecurious mouse
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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15801511 - 02/13/12 01:38 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
Quote:

curious mouse said:
The answer is staring myself and everyone in the face, it's just a matter of taking action.




It's a matter of who/what taking action?

What/Who's stopping that action from taking place?




Me is the answer to both of those questions.


Edited by curious mouse (02/13/12 01:38 AM)


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Started going to therapy.... *DELETED* [Re: curious mouse]
    #15801519 - 02/13/12 01:41 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

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Re: Started going to therapy.... *DELETED* [Re: curious mouse]
    #15801534 - 02/13/12 01:48 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: curious mouse]
    #15801539 - 02/13/12 01:50 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

i want to punch your therapist in the face


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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15801576 - 02/13/12 02:12 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
If you were to hazard a guess, what is the purpose of stopping yourself from taking action? Or in other words, what might you be getting out of not taking action? And/or, might you have anything to lose by taking action?





What may be a large contributor is addiction to temporal physical pleasures. But I think that any drive to "use" whatever medium of distraction I pursue, is a symptom of some larger existential crisis dealing with how will i adapt to reality in a way that feels natural to me and supportive of the actualization of my true potential and personality.

What I lose by taking action is to eventually find out, that regardless of what actions I do take, I simply don't have the ability to become what it is that I want to become.


Edited by curious mouse (02/13/12 02:13 AM)


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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15801584 - 02/13/12 02:14 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
Quote:

curious mouse said:
I'm not necessarily looking for a satisfactory response. I'm looking for the truth. I just feel like we're all constantly lying to ourselves and each other. Or at the least, suppressing the truth.




If that's the case, then you've kind of set yourself up for failure with your desire for the truth. What I mean is, if it's true that we're all constantly lying to ourselves and to each other, thereby suppressing the truth. Then according to these criteria, it would be impossible to ever expect the truth to come back at you in the form of an email, is it not?   

So maybe the answer is to re-calibrate your desires to ones that are actually possible in this world. Maybe.




I do realize I need to re-calibrate my desires, but is that really possible?

Desire to me is rooted in emotional contexts. I can't logically come to the conclusion that I really want this or that for whatever reason, but what I really want is being driven by something more primal and out of my control.


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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: cherokee]
    #15801591 - 02/13/12 02:16 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

cherokee said:
i want to punch your therapist in the face




I actually like her.

I just assumed that her responding to my e-mails is somehow against established rules or something. Plus she only gets paid for the hour I see her.

It may be more about what I can reasonably expect of her time. Or for her concerns of how I may react to, misconstrue, or misuse the documented communication.


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Re: Started going to therapy.... *DELETED* [Re: curious mouse]
    #15801657 - 02/13/12 03:19 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

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Edited by Mufungo (02/13/12 03:31 AM)


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Offlinecurious mouse
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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15801714 - 02/13/12 04:02 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:

So a weigh up between immediate smaller rewards versus delayed greater rewards.





Right now I know that I should be cleaning my room, studying, and if I'm really not going to do either of those things, I should at least be asleep. But here I continue on with this conversation that is somehow filling a temporary need I have. This could also be my desperate attempt to filling a longer term need of finding a person in my life that will engage in conversations like this.

Quote:

Mufungo said:
Yes, if someone believes they don't have the ability to become what they want to become, then why would they ever try?! It makes sense that that belief would prevent someone from starting that very thing they expect to fail at.

Self-efficacy or belief in one's own competency is really useful when doing things and to believe the opposite is not useful. Imagine if you started to doubt your ability, or worse, begin to thoroughly believe you're incapable of brushing your teeth or wiping your arse?!





I want to become an expert in several fields of study. I want to write books and create art that will change the world. Settling for anything less seems mundane.

Quote:

Mufungo said:
Yes, it is possible to re-calibrate your desires. Desires change over a person's life, how do you think that happens? Perhaps through learning, new experiences, age, boredom with past desires, etc...  Someone might even explore what they "think" their desire is and find out on deeper exploration that they in fact really desired something else entirely. Such as the man having a mid-life crisis who desires a red Lamborghini and a 22 year old girlfriend might actually be desiring "to be young again" and then on deeper exploration might actually want "to feel free and not have the weight of responsibility on my shoulders" and then on deeper exploration might actually want... 

For example... using the desire for truth...  If it's ok for me to ask... 
       
If you have the truth you were looking for, fully and completely, then what do you want, through having that, that’s even more important.     

...the answer might be something like "peace of mind", or "feeling secure", or "happiness", or something else, but I don't know what the answer might be for you. The answer doesn't need to be logical either, follow your gut. Use your own sense of congruence/incongruence to decide on what's the correct answer for you. And if truth is just a means to getting something else, then maybe there's a better way to get that other thing instead of desiring truth, thus desiring truth could become redundant because it doesn't really succeed at getting what it was intended to get. I hope all that makes some sort of sense. This is just the surface level stuff, but what I'm getting at by offering an example is that there are many ways to re-calibrate desires of which this is just part of one.

:smile:




Right now I'm on a quest of determining my true intentions.
It's not working so well.

I feel like I'm hiding something from myself.

I want the end goal to leave me feeling powerful, assertive yet accommodating, engaged in the deeply personal and intimate lives of others, and loved/appreciated.


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Re: Started going to therapy.... *DELETED* [Re: curious mouse]
    #15801759 - 02/13/12 04:38 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

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Edited by Mufungo (02/13/12 04:45 AM)


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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15801795 - 02/13/12 05:12 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
"shoulds"...  one of the least motivating modal operators. Change it to a "could", "would", "will", "have to", "want to", etc or whatever feels more motivating. It might be an idea to banish the word "should" from your mental lexicon never to be uttered again.




I see your point but doubt how influential this will be on my thoughts/behaviors.

Quote:

Mufungo said:
Lots of clichés are coming to mind...  "A journey of a thousand miles starts with..."  "How does one eat an elephant? ..."

With writing and art, is this stuff that you just do because you like doing it? Or is it stuff that you want to like to do but that you haven't yet started? If it's the latter, then I'd be making a list of all the things which are equal to or better than writing books and art, just to be more open to the potential options available...



I've dabbled in drawing/painting, written a few premises or plot outlines to books, a few poems, but really nothing beyond that.

That list would include things like: actor/comedian/professional athlete/entrepreneur/leader of the free world/God

Quote:

Mufungo said:
What would you want to determine your true intentions for? What if you have heaps of intentions and what if they keep changing??!!





Well maybe it's not the particular ever changing intentions I'm talking about. Maybe I want to know more about my own personality traits that are guiding those intentions.
   
Quote:

Mufungo said:
...one thing I've noticed in this discussion tonight is that you seem to grab hold of abstract nouns, like "truth" or "intention", and then talk about them as if they're concrete nouns. This is a logical phallussy, or in other words, cognitive masturbation, reification. Convert the abstract noun to a verb or an adjective, then insert a concrete noun, a few more verbs/adjectives, and other contextual criteria to make it make sense..  For example, "what is my true intention?" might become "what do I intend to do right now?" or "what do I intend to do at work tomorrow?" or "how do I intend to enjoy cleaning my room?" or "how do I intend to write my first novel?", etc, etc. Sometimes you might feel ambivalent and intend to do/think things which seem like they're headed in oposite directions. Heck, what you intend might change from moment to moment based on the new information at hand... i.e. The new now.  But ask yourself the right question (one that's well formed with all necessary details), then you'll start getting better answers... 

That said, the way we think is like a habit and takes a bit of practice to change, so you might have to spend a period of time catching yourself when you use abstract nouns in unusual ways or when you use words like "should". But you seem to be psychologically minded and slightly obsessive, so it might not be all that difficult for you.




I intend for now, to go outside, smoke a cigarette, and fully immerse myself in physical sensations hoping to quiet my mind. Quite frankly, this is becoming annoying for myself.

I think part of the reason I was being so general before was so that I could avoid recounting every thought I have and action I take, and then go into some useless rant or story about my life, that will end in nothing but wasted time.


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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: curious mouse]
    #15801811 - 02/13/12 05:23 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

FUCK!

I notice myself holding my breathe and clenching my jaw a lot. Feeling my heart pressure and heart rate fluctuate wildly.

I tell myself to breathe slowly and steadily. Yet when I try to consciously adjust it, it's as if I'm pulling the air in, and my lungs refuse to process the oxygen or I hyperventilate.


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Re: Started going to therapy.... *DELETED* [Re: curious mouse]
    #15801818 - 02/13/12 05:27 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15801836 - 02/13/12 05:39 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

I must be the luckiest son of a bitch alive.

Classes just got canceled due to weather, and here I have been beating myself up all night for procrastinating all day, thinking I'd get just an hour of study time in before class....now I'm free!


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Re: Started going to therapy.... [Re: curious mouse]
    #15811442 - 02/14/12 10:58 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

selfishly bumping my own thread...

because Hell yes I'm not taking medication.
and I'm really looking forward to group therapy tomorrow night, and individual Thursday.

anyone else in therapy?


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