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 bourgeo
Pharmacologist & Biochemist
 
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 192
Loc: Minas Tirith 
Last seen: 17 hours, 16 minutes
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 LSD Lab Price *DELETED*
#15800469 - 02/12/12 09:17 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Post deleted by bourgeoReason for deletion: Too sketchy.
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The effect of nonsense is often caused by an excess of meaning, rather than a lack of it.
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Sheekle
Negro Sapian
Registered: 01/11/10
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Last seen: 22 minutes, 32 seconds
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: bourgeo]
#15800480 - 02/12/12 09:19 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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one hundred million thousand billion five six eighteen nine zero three seven
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PsychoKinesiS
Stranger
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: bourgeo]
#15800488 - 02/12/12 09:19 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Supposedly there are a dozen or so chemists who supply the entire production of LSD in the country so I'd imagine it would not be very economical to merely produce a supply for a single individual or family - unless you're referring to the Grateful Dead family 
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 extreme
:)
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 2,015
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no idea
but a gram of crystal LSD may run you 20 grand? just throwing some big figures out, i have no idea how it relates to the lab and stuff. there's a lot of intricacies with all that. but who here really has all the answers to LSD production (besides ChinaCat) 
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The only thing about a man, that is a man, is his mind.
  
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JilPil
Amateur Chemist
Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 848
Loc: NW
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: extreme]
#15800638 - 02/12/12 09:42 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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isn't acid like 1$ per 100ug straight from the lab?
i know where i can get it, 4th down from the maker, for 5$ a hit/500$ a vial. so 1$ doesn't sound too far off, maybe even less is more accurate.
its all so hush hush now days.
--------------------
 How to smoke DMT
✶✷✸✹✺✹✸✷✶
It's infinitely beautiful, and it's infinitely terrifying.
You are shown the infinity of possibility.
Prior to the breakthrough; you are considering possibilities.
Considering speeds and speeds, until your realm cant follow the consideration.
Once pushed out of this dimension.
You have no dimension in which to have any possibilities to consider.
As you come back to reality you start to remember the possibilities in your life.
You are you but you realize you.
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extreme
:)
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 2,015
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: JilPil]
#15800668 - 02/12/12 09:47 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
JilPil said:
isn't acid like 1$ per 100ug straight from the lab?
i know where i can get it, 4th down from the maker, for 5$ a hit/500$ a vial. so 1$ doesn't sound too far off, maybe even less is more accurate.
its all so hush hush now days.
well it's not exactly easy to get into LSD production... kinda has to be hush hush
it also depends on how much is being produced. i'm sure it's less than $1/hit if they're churning out gram after gram of crystal. but however it works, if it works its way down the line a bit to a bulk supplier but not actual LSD chemist, it might be $1-2/hit?
This is LSD we're talking about here.. one of the hardest drugs on this planet to just go out and make. If the answers were available, the LSD likely wouldn't be. Let the secrets stay, and LSD will continue to come around
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The only thing about a man, that is a man, is his mind.
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PsychoKinesiS
Stranger
Registered: 08/05/11
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: JilPil]
#15800673 - 02/12/12 09:48 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Shit if I could buy a legit vial for $500, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Then I could be set for the next few years and never have to deal with another shitty raver or their bunk.
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420Experience
GC#3
Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 296
Loc: Searching the Rabbit Hole...
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Lab setup cost would be pretty dependent on how you acquire your equipment and also what you stock the lab with. You could spend a pretty reasonable amount or go all out with roto-evaporators and analytical equipment that would cost a rather significant amount.
Read up on the synthesis process to see what all components you will need or devise your own synthetic route to fit with some of the things you already have to work with. Start pricing everything out from there...
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And as far as I'm concerned, it's like I say, drugs are not the problem. Other stuff is the problem. ~Jerry Garcia
I am a catepillar surfing on smoke through Shpongleland...
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Clyde187
Stranger
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That's something I've been pondering myself, recently. I have friends who have the lab experience to be able to do so. Of course, then there's the bigger problem of acquiring the precursors
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Constantine
Registered: 05/01/11
Posts: 1,417
Loc: 
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: Clyde187]
#15801842 - 02/13/12 05:45 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Eastern europe/russia is your best bet if you're looking for ET.. But good luck finding it
Also the shroomery probably isn't the best place to discuss your plans for the future 
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God realized that it existed, and not only that, that it was the only thing that existed. "I Am!" proclaimed this being to itself, and it was.
Edited by Constantine (02/13/12 05:53 AM)
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Phenom
Stranger
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I'd believe it's less than $1/hit, but it's really priceless to family members. Spreading the love.
I'd think acquiring the precursors would be very hard as the DEA keeps close tabs on the aalenof those chemicals. I wonder how they acquire them?
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 8,792
Loc: A transitive nightfall of...
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: JilPil]
#15802074 - 02/13/12 07:57 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
JilPil said:
isn't acid like 1$ per 100ug straight from the lab?
i know where i can get it, 4th down from the maker, for 5$ a hit/500$ a vial. so 1$ doesn't sound too far off, maybe even less is more accurate.
its all so hush hush now days.
That's way overpriced, at least compared to where it was a few years ago.
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420Experience
GC#3
Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 296
Loc: Searching the Rabbit Hole...
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A lot of eastern Europe has really lax ET laws. You can also run your own ergot cultures... Claviceps speciosa aren't super hard to acquire at the right time of year across most of the globe.
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And as far as I'm concerned, it's like I say, drugs are not the problem. Other stuff is the problem. ~Jerry Garcia
I am a catepillar surfing on smoke through Shpongleland...
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PostiveOutlook
Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 10,509
Loc: Mars
Last seen: 14 hours, 23 minutes
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id be interested to know what prices were like in the 60's 
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zergroz
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 500
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Quote:
PostiveOutlook said:
id be interested to know what prices were like in the 60's
a nickel a hit
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Meteloides
Clinically Expressed
Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 2,185
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Every time I see a thread like this, I get super-paranoid for the safety of whoever's talking about making acid or bragging about having access to the chemist.
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extreme
:)
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 2,015
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Quote:
Meteloides said:
Every time I see a thread like this, I get super-paranoid for the safety of whoever's talking about making acid or bragging about having access to the chemist.
if people actually knew the right people like that, they wouldn't be talking about it here. like that's as underground as it gets.. otherwise that chemist would be gone in a second 
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The only thing about a man, that is a man, is his mind.
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nooneman
Stranger
Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 2,897
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: bourgeo]
#15806537 - 02/13/12 11:44 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I have no experience and no knowledge, but from what I've always heard the process is easy and the equipment is cheap if you know what you're doing. The regents are always the bottleneck. I bet you could get all the equipment used for under $1000, but I have no knowledge or proof to back that up. Ergotamine is easy to get and widely available. You'll have a harder time finding the other regents.
Keep in mind, LSD is active in the microgram range, and is supposedly a skin absorber (although there is some debate about this). So, if your technique isn't very good, you could easily end up tripping during the process. There are stories that this supposedly happened to experienced chemists.
Also, there are thousands and thousands and thousands of chemists making LSD. The problem is not the number of people making LSD, the problem is that the demand is outrageous. A single person can consume absolutely insane amounts of LSD. Gram range, one person over time.
Keep in mind, I don't know what I'm talking about. This is just what I've heard.
Edited by nooneman (02/13/12 11:52 PM)
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PostiveOutlook
Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 10,509
Loc: Mars
Last seen: 14 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: zergroz]
#15806542 - 02/13/12 11:46 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
zergroz said:
Quote:
PostiveOutlook said:
id be interested to know what prices were like in the 60's
a nickel a hit
i bet u could get a gram for like a grand
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PostiveOutlook
Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 10,509
Loc: Mars
Last seen: 14 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: extreme]
#15806546 - 02/13/12 11:47 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
extreme said:
Quote:
Meteloides said:
Every time I see a thread like this, I get super-paranoid for the safety of whoever's talking about making acid or bragging about having access to the chemist.
if people actually knew the right people like that, they wouldn't be talking about it here. like that's as underground as it gets.. otherwise that chemist would be gone in a second
LSD is one of hardest chems to produce. not something someone makes in the basement
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extreme
:)
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 2,015
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Quote:
PostiveOutlook said:
Quote:
extreme said:
Quote:
Meteloides said:
Every time I see a thread like this, I get super-paranoid for the safety of whoever's talking about making acid or bragging about having access to the chemist.
if people actually knew the right people like that, they wouldn't be talking about it here. like that's as underground as it gets.. otherwise that chemist would be gone in a second
LSD is one of hardest chems to produce. not something someone makes in the basement
? not that type of underground
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The only thing about a man, that is a man, is his mind.
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: extreme]
#15806576 - 02/14/12 12:03 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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5k
seriously
if you're a jew, you could probably set it up for less.
You need a reflux apparatus, vacuum distillation apparatus, argon supply, standard glassware, common chemicals, access to lysergic acid ( this is the tricky part)
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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Constantine
Registered: 05/01/11
Posts: 1,417
Loc:
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: nooneman]
#15806596 - 02/14/12 12:13 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said:
I have no experience and no knowledge, but from what I've always heard the process is easy and the equipment is cheap if you know what you're doing. The regents are always the bottleneck. I bet you could get all the equipment used for under $1000, but I have no knowledge or proof to back that up. Ergotamine is easy to get and widely available. You'll have a harder time finding the other regents.
The synthesis itself is extremly complicated and can turn out to be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. Cultivating ergot is a good idea if you're looking for the most painful way to die. It is extremly hard to cultivate and you might die in the process, most chemists nowadays start from pure ergotamine tartrate. (And it's not easy to get, you still need to have the right connections and we're not talking about your regular acid hookup)
Quote:
nooneman said:
Keep in mind, LSD is active in the microgram range, and is supposedly a skin absorber (although there is some debate about this).
Quoting Erowid :
" Another fact: I've made LSD in my lab on many occasions for research purposes, possibly in not so meticulous a manner as Albert Hofmann. Nothing ever happened. I had several graduate students who made LSD as an intermediate for projects. No accidental ingestion of LSD ever occurred. A technician in my lab makes it routinely because we use it as a drug to train our rats. He's learned by experience that he never gets high, nothing ever happens. And yesterday I was talking to Nick Sand, and Nick said, "I made a solution of LSD in DMSO…" -- DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) is a chemical that greatly enhances absorption of other chemicals through the skin -- he says, "…I painted it on my skin. Nothing happened." A concentrated solution and nothing happened! "
Quote:
Also, there are thousands and thousands and thousands of chemists making LSD. The problem is not the number of people making LSD, the problem is that the demand is outrageous.
Thousands and thousands of chemists making LSD ? You wish  We'd all be swimming in an ocean of acid then, there probably aren't more than active 30/40 (and that's me being very optimistic) labs worldwide, the problem isn't the demand. Thing is with an LSD lab you can produce several thousands doses in a week, pack up the lab and sell your doses over a long period of time
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God realized that it existed, and not only that, that it was the only thing that existed. "I Am!" proclaimed this being to itself, and it was.
Edited by Constantine (02/14/12 12:39 AM)
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nooneman
Stranger
Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 2,897
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Quote:
Constantine said:
(And it's not easy to get, you still need to have the right connections and we're talking about your regular acid hookup)
Bullshit, I know where to get it from right now, and it's cheap.
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Constantine
Registered: 05/01/11
Posts: 1,417
Loc:
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: nooneman]
#15806619 - 02/14/12 12:27 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said:
Quote:
Constantine said:
(And it's not easy to get, you still need to have the right connections and we're talking about your regular acid hookup)
Bullshit, I know where to get it from right now, and it's cheap.
Well that's cool for you, but guess what most people can't. I'm guessing you have an internet source to talk about it so openly, and yeah you can probably get it on the internet but once again you need to know a legit source don't call bullshit just because you think you can get it, it doesn't mean most people can, we're talking about a chem that is closely watched by the DEA..
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God realized that it existed, and not only that, that it was the only thing that existed. "I Am!" proclaimed this being to itself, and it was.
Edited by Constantine (02/14/12 12:37 AM)
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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I've heard so many losers say they have access to ergotamine tartrate or lysergic acid lol. They are no doubt talking about the many overseas scammers claiming to sell these compounds for like 1-2000 bucks a kilo lol. If I were to believe every foreign scammer I've come across, I'd tell you I have access to lysergic acid for 1500 bucks a kilo. Don't believe anyone if they tell you on the internet that they have access to LSD precursors.
And for the record, cultivating ergot, especially Paspali, is not dangerous, so long as you are capable of avoiding swallowing the culture???
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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"cultivating ergot is a good idea if you're looking for the most painful way to die"
haha no it's a good idea if you're looking to produce some lysergic acid!
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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extreme
:)
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 2,015
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Quote:
LightShedder said:
I've heard so many losers say they have access to ergotamine tartrate or lysergic acid lol. They are no doubt talking about the many overseas scammers claiming to sell these compounds for like 1-2000 bucks a kilo lol. If I were to believe every foreign scammer I've come across, I'd tell you I have access to lysergic acid for 1500 bucks a kilo. Don't believe anyone if they tell you on the internet that they have access to LSD precursors.
And for the record, cultivating ergot, especially Paspali, is not dangerous, so long as you are capable of avoiding swallowing the culture???
a KILO of LSD for $1-2000?
Like 20mg of LSD is $1000. A kilo would be probably at least 30 grand..
LSD crystal isn't sold in amounts under a gram I don't think.. so good luck getting crystal if you don't have thousand and thousands of dollars saved up
Unless you're talking about a kilo of precursors.. but I haven't the slightest clue what the prices would be for ET and the like
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The only thing about a man, that is a man, is his mind.
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: extreme]
#15806701 - 02/14/12 01:07 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I was referring to lysergic acid and ergotamine tartrate.... and no I was only making fun of the idiots who believe the countless foreign scammers who claim to be selling these precursors for the cost of 1-2000 dollars per kilo.... and either way, 1 kilo of lysergic acid is going to give you 1 kilo of LSD so it is just as silly as you were saying... even if someone were selling raw lysergic acid, you can bet it would be 100-250,000 per kilo.
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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extreme
:)
Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 2,015
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Quote:
LightShedder said:
I was referring to lysergic acid and ergotamine tartrate.... and no I was only making fun of the idiots who believe the countless foreign scammers who claim to be selling these precursors for the cost of 1-2000 dollars per kilo.... and either way, 1 kilo of lysergic acid is going to give you 1 kilo of LSD so it is just as silly as you were saying... even if someone were selling raw lysergic acid, you can bet it would be 100-250,000 per kilo.
Ahh I see, thanks for clearing that up 
I have no idea how you'd go about sourcing LSD precursors. Sounds like there's a lot more scammers than legit sources though
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The only thing about a man, that is a man, is his mind.
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JilPil
Amateur Chemist
Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 848
Loc: NW
Last seen: 5 days, 6 hours
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: zergroz]
#15807076 - 02/14/12 05:26 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
zergroz said:
Quote:
PostiveOutlook said:
id be interested to know what prices were like in the 60's
a nickel a hit
id say around 1 dollar a hit maybe a little less, i have a feeling these guys weren't overcharging.
edit:this is a 70s pic but i could imagine this was its cheapest due to the popularity of it
--------------------
How to smoke DMT
✶✷✸✹✺✹✸✷✶
It's infinitely beautiful, and it's infinitely terrifying.
You are shown the infinity of possibility.
Prior to the breakthrough; you are considering possibilities.
Considering speeds and speeds, until your realm cant follow the consideration.
Once pushed out of this dimension.
You have no dimension in which to have any possibilities to consider.
As you come back to reality you start to remember the possibilities in your life.
You are you but you realize you.
Edited by JilPil (02/14/12 05:34 AM)
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420Experience
GC#3
Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 296
Loc: Searching the Rabbit Hole...
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Quote:
LightShedder said:
You need a reflux apparatus, vacuum distillation apparatus, argon supply, standard glassware, common chemicals, access to lysergic acid ( this is the tricky part)
Depends on the synthetic route utilized... In truth, you should also have a Red and Yellow photo lamp. Columns (Benzene:Chloroform over Alumina should work) are an absolute must. Labware and chemicals for recrystallization are also an absolute must.
Most routes require ethyl acetate, methylene chloride, chloroform, ammonium hydroxide, phosphoryl chloride, strong acid and strong base... A fair number use hydrazine (requires lots of safety precautions and should not be taken lightly) and/or PyBOP (BOP can be used if safety precautions are taken to avoid dangers of HMPA).
In honesty, I think the best option of synthesis for most is Lysergic acid amide -> Lysergic acid methyl ester -> Lysergic acid diethylamide...
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And as far as I'm concerned, it's like I say, drugs are not the problem. Other stuff is the problem. ~Jerry Garcia
I am a catepillar surfing on smoke through Shpongleland...
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bourgeo
Pharmacologist & Biochemist
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 192
Loc: Minas Tirith
Last seen: 17 hours, 16 minutes
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I couldn't make it even with the equipment and reagents. It is for a research paper.
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The effect of nonsense is often caused by an excess of meaning, rather than a lack of it.
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420Experience
GC#3
Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 296
Loc: Searching the Rabbit Hole...
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: bourgeo]
#15811548 - 02/14/12 11:28 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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If it's for a research paper, I would suggest reading journal papers published on synthetic routes and outline the necessary equipment associated with various routes. There isn't a single, cookie cutter lab setup. It varies based on the methods that you are using for the route that you use, and the price varies accordingly. If you peruse journal publishings (Hofmann, Nichols, Shulgin, Hardison, etc.), books (Snow, Shulgin, etc.), articles (Hardison, Kemp, Hofmann, Shulgin, Nichols, Pickard, Rhodium, Forum posts, etc. (some of these will be kind of vague)), and some other sources you should be able to come up with a fair few common methods to outline and the associated lab costs.
It is worth noting that some of these will not note directly, but many of the processes are anhydrous, inert, and under specific wavelengths of light...
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And as far as I'm concerned, it's like I say, drugs are not the problem. Other stuff is the problem. ~Jerry Garcia
I am a catepillar surfing on smoke through Shpongleland...
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detest86
Psychonaut
Registered: 03/08/11
Posts: 571
Last seen: 5 days, 21 hours
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50k
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420Experience
GC#3
Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 296
Loc: Searching the Rabbit Hole...
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: detest86]
#15812910 - 02/15/12 09:36 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
detest86 said:
50k
Where did you possibly come up with that number? That would be a giant scaled lab, or you are also buying some analytical equipment...
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And as far as I'm concerned, it's like I say, drugs are not the problem. Other stuff is the problem. ~Jerry Garcia
I am a catepillar surfing on smoke through Shpongleland...
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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This should finalize the thread:
Five thousand U.S. dollars (maximum conservative estimate) as of February 2012.
And this is assuming you have access to lysergic acid through ergot culture.
Zero debate.
End of discussion.
Trust me.
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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420Experience
GC#3
Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 296
Loc: Searching the Rabbit Hole...
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Quote:
LightShedder said:
This should finalize the thread:
Five thousand U.S. dollars (maximum conservative estimate) as of February 2012.
And this is assuming you have access to lysergic acid through ergot culture.
Zero debate.
End of discussion.
Trust me.
I am quite certain that there is more than one way to put a production lab together for the premise of synthesizing LSD... Saying that it can only be done for one price with no debate is absolutely and entirely ignorant.
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And as far as I'm concerned, it's like I say, drugs are not the problem. Other stuff is the problem. ~Jerry Garcia
I am a catepillar surfing on smoke through Shpongleland...
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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I am saying it CAN be done for a maximum price of 5000 dollars. This is mainly in response to those that claim it requires "50k".
To misinterpret my post as saying "this is the only way to make LSD", when I didn't even explain a way of synthesizing LSD, let alone claim it is the only way, would be ignorant. So reread, or learn to communicate, but don't call me ignorant because you can't understand.
You claim that I said "an LSD lab can only be put together for one price".
Please help me understand how you interpreted this from my post???
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
Edited by LightShedder (02/15/12 03:23 PM)
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 8,792
Loc: A transitive nightfall of...
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That's not the maximum price man, it's more of a minimum. A GC/MS alone will run you at least $24,000, and can be more than double that.
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
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Why the hell would you want a GC/MS to make LSD?
I've already listed the vital lab materials, and believe me, a GC/MS isn't on the list.
Here's a list of the main equipment:
Reflux apparatus
Chromatography column
Vacuum distillation unit
Argon gas supply
Red light
Common glassware
Common solvents/reagents
The source of lysergic acid is the trick.
All of the equipment, once you have a source for lysergic acid, can easily be had for under 5000 dollars.
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
Edited by LightShedder (02/15/12 03:32 PM)
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
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Not to make it, to test the product afterwards as any self-respecting chemist would.
One of my closest friends is a chemist that works in drug research & development, and I guarantee that he would laugh his ass off if I showed him this thread.
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LightShedder
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"one of your friends" can debate me all he wants. I know from being a chemist myself that all the materials required to manufacture LSD can be obtained for less than 5000 dolla.s Just go on over to the chemistry section and ask any reputable chemist how much it would cost. They would laugh at you lol.
You think you have to have a GC/MS to "test the LSD"? Dude, take a few lessons from your chemistry buddy. All that testing of the product requires is a proper scale!!!
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 8,792
Loc: A transitive nightfall of...
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Quote:
LightShedder said:
You think you have to have a GC/MS to "test the LSD"? Dude, take a few lessons from your chemistry buddy. All that testing of the product requires is a proper scale!!!
You're pretty confident in your chemistry abilities for someone who just turned 23. I stand by what I said. If you want to know the purity you need a GC/MS. Higher end labs use them, because quality is of the utmost importance.
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LightShedder
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23 year olds can't understand chemistry lab?
No all you would need to analyze the purity of any substance is a mel-temp which can be obtained for 500 dollars or less.
The point however is that analyzing the purity of your product is not necessary. And equipment to analyze purity is not nexessary for the synthesis of compounds. The question is, "what is the rough estimate of the cost of an LSD lab for individual supply"? The answer is, "it can be synthesized with 5000 dollars or less worth of materials, provided that one has a source for lysergic acid"
If you were concerned about purity, you would run it through a column and maybe recrystallize. If you really wanted to, you could test it on a mel-temp, but this isn't necessary to synthesize LSD. ALl you would have to do is ingest 50 micrograms and if you experienced good effects than you know it's gotta be pure enough.
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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dwpineal
Psychedelic Artist
Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 3,703
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: bourgeo]
#15814494 - 02/15/12 04:09 PM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
bourgeo said:
What are some rough estimates as to cost for production of an individual/family supply of LSD? Including lab equipment and reagents. I have seen much variation in estimates.
I see I am getting here a bit late, but it depends on scale and equipment. Pickard was trying to get a production set up where he could do four batches all at once, by rotating the entire process - so that every step that required waiting, he could move to the other set ups and do parts of the process in a separate batch, and as those got to the waiting points, move to the next separate batch. They were calling it a quad-plex pr something like that. This is documented in the FOIA request info from testimony at his trial. He was also trying to purchase a machine that could make LSD with no human present at all. BUT apparently it was a $5 Million purchase, but the complicated part was getting a technician that knew how to set the machine up to produce the LSD. That never manifested before he was arrested.
Also in terms of price, according to Skinner, they would sell kilos of LSD crystal in individually sealed brown glass vials (not sure how much each vial held) to the largest wholesalers in the world for $0.29 a hit (went straight to Holland). This is a bit funny, (meaning I think $0.29 is way high) because back in the early 1990s any decently connected lot kid could score sheets for $50 ($0.50), grams could be had depeding what coast you were on (expect to pay an extra $1-2K on the east coast) for $3200 ($0.32/hit).
These people were spending large amounts of cash for both equipment and especially precursors, as well as private and secured locations. I believe $40K per kilo of ergotamine (and they had about 39 kilos that the DEA recovered).
So it all depends on scale. I'm sure people producing 1-3g per run can do it on a very modest scale...
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Dark_Star
child ofboundless seas
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Understanding a chemistry lab is one thing, but skill comes from experience and experience comes with time.
Some folks still believe that cleanliness is next to godliness. I've consumed a lot of LSD in my day; most of which was very clean....but some of which was not. There is a difference, a very big difference in some cases.
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420Experience
GC#3
Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 296
Loc: Searching the Rabbit Hole...
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Quote:
LightShedder said:
I am saying it CAN be done for a maximum price of 5000 dollars. This is mainly in response to those that claim it requires "50k".
To misinterpret my post as saying "this is the only way to make LSD", when I didn't even explain a way of synthesizing LSD, let alone claim it is the only way, would be ignorant. So reread, or learn to communicate, but don't call me ignorant because you can't understand.
You claim that I said "an LSD lab can only be put together for one price".
Please help me understand how you interpreted this from my post???
I apologize for making a misjudgement of the intended meaning of your post, but the closing three statements give the impression that there is no contesting that figure. I will not argue that certain lab setups for the production could be done for that figure, but I can also think of plenty of setups that would far surpass that figure...
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And as far as I'm concerned, it's like I say, drugs are not the problem. Other stuff is the problem. ~Jerry Garcia
I am a catepillar surfing on smoke through Shpongleland...
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Dest
Mind at Large
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flash test is apparently suitable for determining purity.
or maybe Shulgin and Nick Sand are blowing smoke up our butts.. but somehow i doubt that.
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melfdis
Stranger
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: dwpineal]
#15819834 - 02/16/12 04:37 PM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
dwpineal said:
Quote:
bourgeo said:
What are some rough estimates as to cost for production of an individual/family supply of LSD? Including lab equipment and reagents. I have seen much variation in estimates.
I see I am getting here a bit late, but it depends on scale and equipment. Pickard was trying to get a production set up where he could do four batches all at once, by rotating the entire process - so that every step that required waiting, he could move to the other set ups and do parts of the process in a separate batch, and as those got to the waiting points, move to the next separate batch. They were calling it a quad-plex pr something like that. This is documented in the FOIA request info from testimony at his trial. He was also trying to purchase a machine that could make LSD with no human present at all. BUT apparently it was a $5 Million purchase, but the complicated part was getting a technician that knew how to set the machine up to produce the LSD. That never manifested before he was arrested.
Also in terms of price, according to Skinner, they would sell kilos of LSD crystal in individually sealed brown glass vials (not sure how much each vial held) to the largest wholesalers in the world for $0.29 a hit (went straight to Holland). This is a bit funny, (meaning I think $0.29 is way high) because back in the early 1990s any decently connected lot kid could score sheets for $50 ($0.50), grams could be had depeding what coast you were on (expect to pay an extra $1-2K on the east coast) for $3200 ($0.32/hit).
These people were spending large amounts of cash for both equipment and especially precursors, as well as private and secured locations. I believe $40K per kilo of ergotamine (and they had about 39 kilos that the DEA recovered).
So it all depends on scale. I'm sure people producing 1-3g per run can do it on a very modest scale...
Yeah, I remember reading in the trial testimony that the actual cost per hit to make was like 1 or 2 cents.
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Sacred Haze
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: melfdis] 1
#15819992 - 02/16/12 05:19 PM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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Anyone saying you can not just set-up a lab in your basement, have you ever seen Shulgin's lab ? Looks like he never cleaned the place ever. Maybe when he was younger he kept it looking a bit better.
Edited by Sacred Haze (02/16/12 05:27 PM)
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Mr. Bojangles
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Quote:
LightShedder said:
You think you have to have a GC/MS to "test the LSD"? Dude, take a few lessons from your chemistry buddy. All that testing of the product requires is a proper scale!!!
...The point however is that analyzing the purity of your product is not necessary. And equipment to analyze purity is not nexessary for the synthesis of compounds.
Seriously? Ever worked in a synthesis lab?
For one you need to make sure you're intermediates are pure. If you go about synthesizing a chemical, impure intermediate mixtures have the potential to fuck everything up. You need to know the proper mole ratios to add and you have no way of knowing that if you aren't sure of purity. Melting point tests aren't accurate enough, same with flash tests. Good to double check but not on their own. Just bad advice to do otherwise...
And if I ever synthesize anything for ingestion you can bet your ass I'm running a GC/MS, NMR, and an IR to make sure it's clean. Don't rely off just one test alone, I've learned that the hard way...
Of course you don't need to buy one. Just find a friend with access to one...aka any research associate at a University or something.
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"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
-Fracois Marie Voltaire
Edited by Mr. Bojangles (02/16/12 05:42 PM)
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LySergic D
Psychedelic Researcher
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Only a real chemist has a messy lab like Sasha's.
As he says, "A laboratory is a chemist personal mess".
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I been balling a shiny black steel jack-hammer,
been chippin' up rocks for the great highway,
live five years if I take my time,
ballin' that jack and a drinkin' my wine.
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Sacred Haze
Stranger
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Haha, did not know he said that. Those pictures do get me excited just looking at them though.
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Nature Boy
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Quote:
Mr. Bojangles said:
Of course you don't need to buy one. Just find a friend with access to one...aka any research associate at a University or something.
Well, attempts at surreptitious runs on machines you don't own won't work out very well (or for very long) as most GC/MS runs are recorded numerically by the machine or are under strict supervision by folks who have no sense of humor for unauthorized use for assaying illegal substances.
N.B.
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All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) - and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I no longer answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend, so don't bother. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread...no exceptions. Anyone with less than 1,000 posts is automatically assumed to be a cop.
 
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LySergic D
Psychedelic Researcher
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What would you really need a GC/MS machine for anyway? I mean those are just used to test for different substances within a sample right? The only practical use i see in an LSD lab would be to test precursors before use. Correct me if im wrong.
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I been balling a shiny black steel jack-hammer,
been chippin' up rocks for the great highway,
live five years if I take my time,
ballin' that jack and a drinkin' my wine.
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Mr. Bojangles
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There are unscrupulous grad students who have access to such things  Especially at non-R1 Universities where the spec labs can be a little more lax.
How else would you check the purity/identity of your final product? How would you know if you needed to purify further? Of course, I'm assuming you wouldn't have an HPLC in your basement. The GC tells you how much of what is in your substance while the MS tells you the make-up of each GC peak. They're quite useful. With an NMR and GC/MS I can verify that my final product is, in fact, LSD and tell you how much of the final product is LSD, how pure it is, and in what ratio to other compounds in my final product. Add in an IR spectra just to double check that the necessary functional groups are there and I can be 100% confident that what I have is pure L.
Don't use an GC/MS and all you have is functional group IR and proton coupling NMR. Both are good, but when dealing with more complex molecules you need as much input as possible since a variety of products may be formed. Or you can do a melting point test/flash test like suggested earlier and just hope/pray that it's LSD that's getting those results and not some similar chemical with similar physical properties.
I'm not saying you can't roll the dice, but I've fucked up simple antibiotic synthesis that was easier than LSD, and would never have known if it weren't for such assays.
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"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
-Fracois Marie Voltaire
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Asura
उत्कटासनम्
Registered: 08/01/11
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Imagine a DVD set like "Let's Grow Mushrooms" but targeted at LSD. I don't give a running fuck at a flying donut if it takes 20 DVD's to explain everything. The point is, the information needs to be available. Think: A targeted chemistry lesson that explains everything a person would need to know just to manufacture LSD.
Seriously, this needs to happen.
This is a very important substance and the fact that the world supply is so low (since 2006 I guess) scares me to death. It's not right.
End of rant.
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LySergic D
Psychedelic Researcher
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: Asura]
#15820452 - 02/16/12 06:48 PM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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Alex and Ann Shulgin wrote two books explaining the synthesis of LSD, MDMA and many other RCs. You can order the books off Amazon.
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I been balling a shiny black steel jack-hammer,
been chippin' up rocks for the great highway,
live five years if I take my time,
ballin' that jack and a drinkin' my wine.
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Asura
उत्कटासनम्
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I absolutely know about these books. There is a lot of detail missing. Seriously, I have thought a lot about this. To me it seems like the people that know how to do it (and do it) guard it. This needs to change. There needs to be some kind of instructional series that allows everyone to make it. I just don't buy the "you need to be a super smart chemist" routine. This is too important to have that kind of attitude.
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Mr. Bojangles
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: Asura]
#15820483 - 02/16/12 06:54 PM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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You don't need to be a super smart chemist. The recipes are there you just need technique. Proper lab protocol and technique isn't something that can really be taught with a DVD, it comes from experience.
Contrary to popular belief, chemistry isn't as easy following the recipe.
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"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
-Fracois Marie Voltaire
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Asura
उत्कटासनम्
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I disagree somewhat. It could be taught. Think about a chemistry course just targeted towards LSD. All the techniques focused on making the one substance. "A DVD" wouldn't cut it, sure. But what about 10 of them? You see what I am saying?
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Dest
Mind at Large
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: Asura]
#15821534 - 02/16/12 10:31 PM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mycon said:
I absolutely know about these books. There is a lot of detail missing. Seriously, I have thought a lot about this. To me it seems like the people that know how to do it (and do it) guard it. This needs to change. There needs to be some kind of instructional series that allows everyone to make it. I just don't buy the "you need to be a super smart chemist" routine. This is too important to have that kind of attitude.
Yeah he doesn't mention that it can take up to 2L of solvent to run a column for a small amount of material (depending on the size of your setup)..
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CounterCulturest
-Positive Mental Attitude-
Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,318
Loc: At yo door Nigga
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Quote:
PsychoKinesiS said:
Supposedly there are a dozen or so chemists who supply the entire production of LSD in the country so I'd imagine it would not be very economical to merely produce a supply for a single individual or family - unless you're referring to the Grateful Dead family
I don't believe this at all. There is way more than just 12...
I ain't just nit pickin. I just believe that there is way more than that. LSD synth is put on some pedestal for some reason. I don't think it's as hard as a lot of people put it out to be. Still a bitch, I'm sure. But some people act like it's as hardest thing known to man to synth. 
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
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Quote:
Mr. Bojangles said:
Quote:
LightShedder said:
You think you have to have a GC/MS to "test the LSD"? Dude, take a few lessons from your chemistry buddy. All that testing of the product requires is a proper scale!!!
...The point however is that analyzing the purity of your product is not necessary. And equipment to analyze purity is not nexessary for the synthesis of compounds.
Seriously? Ever worked in a synthesis lab?
For one you need to make sure you're intermediates are pure. If you go about synthesizing a chemical, impure intermediate mixtures have the potential to fuck everything up. You need to know the proper mole ratios to add and you have no way of knowing that if you aren't sure of purity. Melting point tests aren't accurate enough, same with flash tests. Good to double check but not on their own. Just bad advice to do otherwise...
And if I ever synthesize anything for ingestion you can bet your ass I'm running a GC/MS, NMR, and an IR to make sure it's clean. Don't rely off just one test alone, I've learned that the hard way...
Of course you don't need to buy one. Just find a friend with access to one...aka any research associate at a University or something.
Stop talking out of your butthole dude. No one needs to "test all the intermediates" when synthesizing anything. Buy DCM, Ammonium Hydroxide, Ethyl ACetate, and all other common chemicals, solvents and reagents needed from legitimate chemical suppliers??? Why would you want to test 99% pure BOP reagent straight out of the bottle?
You guys are not going to convince anyont with chemistry lab knowledge that you need a GC/MS to synthesize anything. You honestly believe that LSD is like so magical a compound that it can't be synthesized under argon and red light by coupling lysergic acid with diethylamine using BOP reagent? Trust me, it's that easy.
And to answer your question, yes I have "worked in a synthesis lab" lol. Shows how little you know about chemistry. If you mean, have I ever synthesized a chemical in my home with lab equipment, the answer is yes.
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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CounterCulturest
-Positive Mental Attitude-
Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,318
Loc: At yo door Nigga
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It's actually kinda freaky to think about anyone who doesn't have either A-a lot of chemistry experience or B- a LOT of acid experience, to pull of an LSD synthesis. like 20 years worth of being heavily involved.
That many doses is so dangerous. You would REALLY have to pay attention to what you were doing until it was diluted down to your 100mcg doses. Or if some fool somehow managed to make a batch and then accidentally laid some wrong and made some ridiculously powerful hits.
Personally I wouldn't even wanna be around crystal because of the potency. You make up a couple grams and spill some of that solution on your hands.. you could fuck yourself SOOO easily. I'll deal with vials but dealing with concentrated shit is pretty damn dangerous. Sure, it won't kill you. But imagine slipping up and somehow dosing yourself with a 1000 hits. I assume the people who actually bring the substance into existence are extremely cautious when handling it. Intense shit...
Risky stuff for sure.
Thank god we got people who know what they are doing !!! cuz I love acid !!!
Who here LOVES acid ?
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LightShedder
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LSD is a very simple compound to synthesize. It involves coupling one chemical with another using a coupling agent. That is like one step chemistry in an organic chemistry lab. Compared to most any other synthesis, LSD literally is retardedly simple. Lysergic acid is just a bitch to obtain. But it can be grown from claviceps paspali fungus pretty easily. Here's honestly the easiest anc cheapest way to make LSD....
acquire claviceps paspali fungus (there is tons floatin around the the web)
culture and extract alkaloids
hydrolyze alkaloids to lysergic acid
make Diethylamine by basifying pure 99% DEET with lye/water and distilling over the diethylamine (this definitely definitely definitely works)
couple lysergic acid with diethylamine using BOP reagent
voila! LSD
do it under argon and red light.
Equipment needed? Rotary evaporator (or vaccum distillation unit if your ghetto), reflux apparatus, argon supply, red light, common glassware, common solvents/chemicals (DCM, ethyl acetate, sodium bicarbonate, magnesium sulfate etc.) chromatography column...
all of this can be had for under 5000 dollars. and as long as you can obtain lysergic acid, LSD synthesis is retardedly easy. I don't know why anyone would dare argue against this. If your prepare to, get ready to be bombarded with information, notes, references, and maybe even incriminating pictures!!!
Edited by LightShedder (02/17/12 12:00 AM)
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Dest
Mind at Large
Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 678
Last seen: 1 hour, 13 minutes
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Quote:
LightShedder said:
Quote:
Mr. Bojangles said:
Quote:
LightShedder said:
You think you have to have a GC/MS to "test the LSD"? Dude, take a few lessons from your chemistry buddy. All that testing of the product requires is a proper scale!!!
...The point however is that analyzing the purity of your product is not necessary. And equipment to analyze purity is not nexessary for the synthesis of compounds.
Seriously? Ever worked in a synthesis lab?
For one you need to make sure you're intermediates are pure. If you go about synthesizing a chemical, impure intermediate mixtures have the potential to fuck everything up. You need to know the proper mole ratios to add and you have no way of knowing that if you aren't sure of purity. Melting point tests aren't accurate enough, same with flash tests. Good to double check but not on their own. Just bad advice to do otherwise...
And if I ever synthesize anything for ingestion you can bet your ass I'm running a GC/MS, NMR, and an IR to make sure it's clean. Don't rely off just one test alone, I've learned that the hard way...
Of course you don't need to buy one. Just find a friend with access to one...aka any research associate at a University or something.
Stop talking out of your butthole dude. No one needs to "test all the intermediates" when synthesizing anything. Buy DCM, Ammonium Hydroxide, Ethyl ACetate, and all other common chemicals, solvents and reagents needed from legitimate chemical suppliers??? Why would you want to test 99% pure BOP reagent straight out of the bottle?
You guys are not going to convince anyont with chemistry lab knowledge that you need a GC/MS to synthesize anything. You honestly believe that LSD is like so magical a compound that it can't be synthesized under argon and red light by coupling lysergic acid with diethylamine using BOP reagent? Trust me, it's that easy.
And to answer your question, yes I have "worked in a synthesis lab" lol. Shows how little you know about chemistry. If you mean, have I ever synthesized a chemical in my home with lab equipment, the answer is yes.
Its not like you buy a used car without the carfax, buying chemicals that do not have an assay is just stupid. but when working with something that is so delicate, it makes sense to double check.
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
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Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: Dest]
#15821816 - 02/17/12 12:09 AM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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I trust my sources from experience. I have honestly never heard of any chemist testing every single intermediate chemical he uses in the lab with a GC/MS lol. In the lab, LSD is just another substance guys, it looks no different than salt and chemists aren't obligated to treat it any differently, except maybe keeping it away from light and air.
Purity can be easily assessed in the end. The synthesis involves adequate washing and subsequent extractions, crystalizations and solvent removals so that in the end, if you are left with a crystal substance, you basically can only be left with one thing: a mixture of LSD and isoLSD. If you ingest 50 mics of it, even if it were like 100% poison, you would be fine. And if it is LSD, which by that point it basically has to be, then you will trip. If you trip off of 50 mics then that tells you that it is pure. Not saying that you wouldn't want to run it on a mel-temp just for shits and giggles, but seriously, ESPECIALLY with a compound like LSD, take it from a laboratory chemist, impurities are not too significant. The only impurities that will be there (lsd isomers) are inactive so they aren't to worry about in the minute doses they will be ingested in. It's not like you are any more likely to have some intermediate toxic chemical leftover in your LSD than you are any other chemical made in the lab, just because LSD is so potent and fragile... the chances of completing an LSD synthesis, ending up with crystals when they should, yet having one of the intermediate chemicals such as BOP or sodium bicarbonate (that's about the only option in my preferred synth) end up in the leftover product are almost impossible, and this is a risk any time any chemist anywhere is making any chemical at all. Just because LSD is potent and the precursors are rare doesn't mean that you are any more likely to poison the end product...
I hope I am not ranting to a bunch of people who don't have the slightest bit of knowledge about chemistry lab and LSD chemistry.... because the common myth contradicts the truth I am speaking so you are probably inclined to think it is all false. Your loss, not mine.... (that's directed to anyone why refutes what I am saying)
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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CounterCulturest
-Positive Mental Attitude-
Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,318
Loc: At yo door Nigga
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^^^ I like reading your stuff  
Shit, thats what forums are for. If I don't like something I just don't read it lol
Keep it comin broski.
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nocoast
Trichome Technician
Registered: 12/06/08
Posts: 837
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Quote:
LightShedder said:
23 year olds can't understand chemistry lab?
No all you would need to analyze the purity of any substance is a mel-temp which can be obtained for 500 dollars or less.
If you were concerned about purity, you would run it through a column and maybe recrystallize. If you really wanted to, you could test it on a mel-temp, but this isn't necessary to synthesize LSD. ALl you would have to do is ingest 50 micrograms and if you experienced good effects than you know it's gotta be pure enough.
Dude thats what making good acid (or most any psychedellic compound) is about....How is LSD "just another chemical" when it takes such a small dose to have such a profound effect on reality? I dont think it should be looked at, treated, or even likened to salt in any way shape or form (even though the crystal may essentially be a salt lol)
Edited by nocoast (02/17/12 03:39 AM)
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: nocoast]
#15822200 - 02/17/12 03:41 AM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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Indeed it's potency makes it distinct from most other psychedelics. I'm just saying that the synthesis of this particular compound bears no interest in the potency of it's psychoactive effect on man lol. It will be made like all other substances, without the need for a GC/MS to test any intermediates. In the end, if you've done it correctly, and with proper energy (ok, that's optional) than you can have pure LSD.
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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nocoast
Trichome Technician
Registered: 12/06/08
Posts: 837
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Absolutely, that said, to my limited understanding, the best, most thorough way to analyze your product is through GC/MS and as someone who has tryed a wide variety of crystal (yes ive seen varrying shades of it and the person who called out 20k as the price is dead on) and as a general trend the whiter it is, the smoother the trip, the more prisms you see, the less body load there is. As far as the cost of the laboratories a lot of the overseas stuff is, im sure its upwards of hundreds of thousands as those guys are pumping out millions of dollars in product a year...The Czech Republic has my favorite team
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420Experience
GC#3
Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 296
Loc: Searching the Rabbit Hole...
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Quote:
LightShedder said:
I trust my sources from experience. I have honestly never heard of any chemist testing every single intermediate chemical he uses in the lab with a GC/MS lol. In the lab, LSD is just another substance guys, it looks no different than salt and chemists aren't obligated to treat it any differently, except maybe keeping it away from light and air.
Purity can be easily assessed in the end. The synthesis involves adequate washing and subsequent extractions, crystalizations and solvent removals so that in the end, if you are left with a crystal substance, you basically can only be left with one thing: a mixture of LSD and isoLSD. If you ingest 50 mics of it, even if it were like 100% poison, you would be fine. And if it is LSD, which by that point it basically has to be, then you will trip. If you trip off of 50 mics then that tells you that it is pure. Not saying that you wouldn't want to run it on a mel-temp just for shits and giggles, but seriously, ESPECIALLY with a compound like LSD, take it from a laboratory chemist, impurities are not too significant. The only impurities that will be there (lsd isomers) are inactive so they aren't to worry about in the minute doses they will be ingested in. It's not like you are any more likely to have some intermediate toxic chemical leftover in your LSD than you are any other chemical made in the lab, just because LSD is so potent and fragile... the chances of completing an LSD synthesis, ending up with crystals when they should, yet having one of the intermediate chemicals such as BOP or sodium bicarbonate (that's about the only option in my preferred synth) end up in the leftover product are almost impossible, and this is a risk any time any chemist anywhere is making any chemical at all. Just because LSD is potent and the precursors are rare doesn't mean that you are any more likely to poison the end product...
I hope I am not ranting to a bunch of people who don't have the slightest bit of knowledge about chemistry lab and LSD chemistry.... because the common myth contradicts the truth I am speaking so you are probably inclined to think it is all false. Your loss, not mine.... (that's directed to anyone why refutes what I am saying)
One word... Foolish. We buy all our chemicals from Fischer Scientific and Sigma Aldrich as reagent grade for our graduate research group and always test the purity of new chemicals. Very regularly we have to purify, as the reported purities are very frequently quite off.
But, do as you please. I for one like to ensure the absolute in purity of all my working chemicals and products. Analysis throughout is very key for this. Anyone who is not willing to take that care should not be willing to share their product with anyone else as they failed to take proper safety precautions for others. There is a reason that the Familys of old believed it to be a sacrament protected in purity...
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And as far as I'm concerned, it's like I say, drugs are not the problem. Other stuff is the problem. ~Jerry Garcia
I am a catepillar surfing on smoke through Shpongleland...
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Shpongle1
Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 1,980
Loc: Above The Clouds
Last seen: 13 minutes, 19 seconds
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Quote:
CounterCulturest said:
Quote:
PsychoKinesiS said:
Supposedly there are a dozen or so chemists who supply the entire production of LSD in the country so I'd imagine it would not be very economical to merely produce a supply for a single individual or family - unless you're referring to the Grateful Dead family
I don't believe this at all. There is way more than just 12...
I ain't just nit pickin. I just believe that there is way more than that. LSD synth is put on some pedestal for some reason. I don't think it's as hard as a lot of people put it out to be. Still a bitch, I'm sure. But some people act like it's as hardest thing known to man to synth.
I HIGHLY doubt the number is much higher. It's not even just about the difficulty of the synthesis. I'm sure there are a lot of serious college chemistry students who would have no issue pulling it off. That's if they have access to possess all of the precursors in their clandestine lab. Which they don't.
It also isn't only about precursors. It's about having some serious connections in order to move large amounts of crystal LSD, knowing how not to get caught and having the balls to actually do it. All of these things don't come together that frequently. Most of the people that we discuss when we say "serious college students could synthesize it", 98% of the time aren't the kind of kids who are thinking "I want to go make LSD and risk spending life in prison." They are thinking "I want to get a great job and pursue chemistry and make bank doing it."
There is more to consider than the difficulty of the synthesis. Also, keep in mind that people don't say "There are only a dozen LSD labs in the world." There might be some tiny little operations where LSD was successfully made once or twice on a small scale just for personal satisfaction. It says "The world's supply is likely coming from only, at most, a dozen labs at any time." In other words, there are only a handful of chemists synthesizing, and DISTRIBUTING on a big scale. And I have zero doubt in believing that.
EDIT: I re-read the originally quoted text. I highly, highly doubt there are even 12 labs producing in any 1 country. I feel confident it's less than that. Usually they say there are only a handful operating, on a distribution level, in the entire world. That seems more accurate.
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There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined. Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. 
 - "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.
Edited by Shpongle1 (02/17/12 08:35 AM)
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Mr. Bojangles
Breathe In
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1,339
Loc: The Dirty
Last seen: 17 minutes, 19 seconds
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Quote:
LightShedder said:
Quote:
Mr. Bojangles said:
Quote:
LightShedder said:
You think you have to have a GC/MS to "test the LSD"? Dude, take a few lessons from your chemistry buddy. All that testing of the product requires is a proper scale!!!
...The point however is that analyzing the purity of your product is not necessary. And equipment to analyze purity is not nexessary for the synthesis of compounds.
Seriously? Ever worked in a synthesis lab?
For one you need to make sure you're intermediates are pure. If you go about synthesizing a chemical, impure intermediate mixtures have the potential to fuck everything up. You need to know the proper mole ratios to add and you have no way of knowing that if you aren't sure of purity. Melting point tests aren't accurate enough, same with flash tests. Good to double check but not on their own. Just bad advice to do otherwise...
And if I ever synthesize anything for ingestion you can bet your ass I'm running a GC/MS, NMR, and an IR to make sure it's clean. Don't rely off just one test alone, I've learned that the hard way...
Of course you don't need to buy one. Just find a friend with access to one...aka any research associate at a University or something.
Stop talking out of your butthole dude. No one needs to "test all the intermediates" when synthesizing anything. Buy DCM, Ammonium Hydroxide, Ethyl ACetate, and all other common chemicals, solvents and reagents needed from legitimate chemical suppliers??? Why would you want to test 99% pure BOP reagent straight out of the bottle?
You guys are not going to convince anyont with chemistry lab knowledge that you need a GC/MS to synthesize anything. You honestly believe that LSD is like so magical a compound that it can't be synthesized under argon and red light by coupling lysergic acid with diethylamine using BOP reagent? Trust me, it's that easy.
And to answer your question, yes I have "worked in a synthesis lab" lol. Shows how little you know about chemistry. If you mean, have I ever synthesized a chemical in my home with lab equipment, the answer is yes.
I don't think you understand what an intermediate is if you think that I mean testing your reagents. Lesson #1: intermediates are products of reactions that go into making your final product (ie- LSD). If you go from ergotamine to LSD you will have two intermediates, going by the "recipe" (TiHKAL, since I doubt a basement chemist will come up with a novel route right away) one will be tested for and verified. Chemicals from chemical suppliers are not intermediates (DCM, Ammonium Hydroxide, Ethyle Acetate). I'm not talking about assaying those, those aren't intermediates  . But like 420experience, I too have had to purify reagent grade chemicals from suppliers like Sigma.
Synthesizing LSD is not some one-pot process, it takes multiple steps to get there, and after each step you should make sure that what you have is what you want and that nothing else is present in the mixture. Especially the novice chemist. Hell, if you go by the Shulgin method outlines in TiHKAL he even tests the intermediate with IR and MS before proceeding to the last step of the reaction. It's just good practice. I doubt you have any practical chemistry knowledge if you suggest otherwise.
I'm not touting a specific way to get LSD, that will vary based on what chemicals you can get. There are many ways with varying ease and difficulty but in all ways you should be able to test your product and not by "personal bioassay". If you do decide to go all hillbilly shake-n-bake then done, please don't give that LSD to anyone else but your own dumb self.
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"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
-Fracois Marie Voltaire
Edited by Mr. Bojangles (02/17/12 08:20 AM)
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bourgeo
Pharmacologist & Biochemist
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 192
Loc: Minas Tirith
Last seen: 17 hours, 16 minutes
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I'm actually going to study DMT manufacture. I am using Quantum Tantra's ebook. If anyone has any further materials or suggestions, please feel free to message me.
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The effect of nonsense is often caused by an excess of meaning, rather than a lack of it.
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Shpongle1
Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 1,980
Loc: Above The Clouds
Last seen: 13 minutes, 19 seconds
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: bourgeo]
#15822711 - 02/17/12 08:54 AM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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I just deleted a file off of my computer that had a picture guide to the synthesis.  Sorry man... You can find it though. I think it was a link off of rhodium.
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There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined. Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens.
- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.
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Dest
Mind at Large
Registered: 06/14/09
Posts: 678
Last seen: 1 hour, 13 minutes
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: nocoast]
#15822747 - 02/17/12 09:09 AM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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Alright so any intermediate that is worth over 100k a kilo is going to have to be ran through a gc/ms, especially if sourced from overseas. but that is not a problem since anybody who would be attempting such a quest would probably have a friend in a analytical lab to help them out right?
Who would you trust to be make your crystal; someone who is serious about clean product, or some crazy old deadhead that has been blindly following the same recipe from their cousin 30 from 30 years ago pumping out tons of "amber" or whatever the fuck that dirty comes from.
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Constantine
Registered: 05/01/11
Posts: 1,417
Loc:
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: Dest]
#15823263 - 02/17/12 11:46 AM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Dest said:
Who would you trust to be make your crystal; someone who is serious about clean product, or some crazy old deadhead that has been blindly following the same recipe from their cousin 30 from 30 years ago pumping out tons of "amber" or whatever the fuck that dirty comes from.
..
Ever heard of Owsley Stanley ?
But ya, I guess you could've called him "some crazy old deadhead that's been blindly following the same recipe from 30 years ago pumping out tons of amber shit crystal"
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God realized that it existed, and not only that, that it was the only thing that existed. "I Am!" proclaimed this being to itself, and it was.
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Mr. Bojangles
Breathe In
Registered: 04/08/08
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Quote:
Constantine said:
Quote:
Dest said:
Who would you trust to be make your crystal; someone who is serious about clean product, or some crazy old deadhead that has been blindly following the same recipe from their cousin 30 from 30 years ago pumping out tons of "amber" or whatever the fuck that dirty comes from.
..
Ever heard of Owsley Stanley ?
But ya, I guess you could've called him "some crazy old deadhead that's been blindly following the same recipe from 30 years ago pumping out tons of amber shit crystal"
Nah, he wasn't crazy, old or following a previous recipe
Shit was a little different back then. He bought his Lysergic acid monohydrate pre-made, LSD is practically one step away from that. There weren't any chemical watch lists either and his reactants/reagents were pretty easily procured. He also had a chemist as a gf so don't give him all the credit.
Diethylamine and lysergic acid monohydrate are both on the TSCA watch lists. Diethylamine you can at least get from a reputable supplier but good luck finding lysergic acid monohydrate from anyone of good report...you're definitely going to want to make sure that's the good shit before you start. Or go the less sketchy but more involved route of starting with migraine meds...
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"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
-Fracois Marie Voltaire
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PsychoKinesiS
Stranger
Registered: 08/05/11
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Why are we talking about kilos? This isn't cocaine. Who sells a KILO of LSD? That's 10,000,000 (strong) doses, with a street retail value of $100,000,000. Why would it be sold for $100K? If it costs $.01 per dose to produce, then that isn't even making any profit for the chemist.
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: Dest]
#15823433 - 02/17/12 12:45 PM (3 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Bojangles said:
Quote:
LightShedder said:
Quote:
Mr. Bojangles said:
Quote:
LightShedder said:
You think you have to have a GC/MS to "test the LSD"? Dude, take a few lessons from your chemistry buddy. All that testing of the product requires is a proper scale!!!
...The point however is that analyzing the purity of your product is not necessary. And equipment to analyze purity is not nexessary for the synthesis of compounds.
Seriously? Ever worked in a synthesis lab?
For one you need to make sure you're intermediates are pure. If you go about synthesizing a chemical, impure intermediate mixtures have the potential to fuck everything up. You need to know the proper mole ratios to add and you have no way of knowing that if you aren't sure of purity. Melting point tests aren't accurate enough, same with flash tests. Good to double check but not on their own. Just bad advice to do otherwise...
And if I ever synthesize anything for ingestion you can bet your ass I'm running a GC/MS, NMR, and an IR to make sure it's clean. Don't rely off just one test alone, I've learned that the hard way...
Of course you don't need to buy one. Just find a friend with access to one...aka any research associate at a University or something.
Stop talking out of your butthole dude. No one needs to "test all the intermediates" when synthesizing anything. Buy DCM, Ammonium Hydroxide, Ethyl ACetate, and all other common chemicals, solvents and reagents needed from legitimate chemical suppliers??? Why would you want to test 99% pure BOP reagent straight out of the bottle?
You guys are not going to convince anyont with chemistry lab knowledge that you need a GC/MS to synthesize anything. You honestly believe that LSD is like so magical a compound that it can't be synthesized under argon and red light by coupling lysergic acid with diethylamine using BOP reagent? Trust me, it's that easy.
And to answer your question, yes I have "worked in a synthesis lab" lol. Shows how little you know about chemistry. If you mean, have I ever synthesized a chemical in my home with lab equipment, the answer is yes.
I don't think you understand what an intermediate is if you think that I mean testing your reagents. Lesson #1: intermediates are products of reactions that go into making your final product (ie- LSD). If you go from ergotamine to LSD you will have two intermediates, going by the "recipe" (TiHKAL, since I doubt a basement chemist will come up with a novel route right away) one will be tested for and verified. Chemicals from chemical suppliers are not intermediates (DCM, Ammonium Hydroxide, Ethyle Acetate). I'm not talking about assaying those, those aren't intermediates . But like 420experience, I too have had to purify reagent grade chemicals from suppliers like Sigma.
Synthesizing LSD is not some one-pot process, it takes multiple steps to get there, and after each step you should make sure that what you have is what you want and that nothing else is present in the mixture. Especially the novice chemist. Hell, if you go by the Shulgin method outlines in TiHKAL he even tests the intermediate with IR and MS before proceeding to the last step of the reaction. It's just good practice. I doubt you have any practical chemistry knowledge if you suggest otherwise.
I'm not touting a specific way to get LSD, that will vary based on what chemicals you can get. There are many ways with varying ease and difficulty but in all ways you should be able to test your product and not by "personal bioassay". If you do decide to go all hillbilly shake-n-bake then done, please don't give that LSD to anyone else but your own dumb self.
lol I am obviously aware that reagents aren't intermediates, I have just been debating with multiple people on whether you need to test the intermediates ( I know of a synthesis without any intermediates) AND reagents, so whoever I was responding to, if they were only referring to the intermediates, then it was a misunderstanding on my part because I have indeed been telling multiple people that reagents/precursors are not necessary to be tested.
Moving on though, it is still not necessary in the slightest to "test your intermediates on a GC/MC". And to deny this isn't making you some noble chemist. Admitting it doesn't make you a bad impure one. In the Hardison BOP method, one can literally take lysergic acid in DCM, mix it with an equivalent of BOP reagent, then add an equivalent of Diethylamine, then wash it with ammonium hydroxide, then remove the DCM. Next washing step would be dissolving product in saturated sodium bicarbonate, extracting into ethyl aceteate, washing, drying, then removing solvent. This is LSD. One could run it through a chromatography column if they want to separate the isomers. I'd say that's a pretty one pot shot compare to most ochem syntthesis, wouldn't you?
Quote:
Dest said:
Alright so any intermediate that is worth over 100k a kilo is going to have to be ran through a gc/ms, especially if sourced from overseas. but that is not a problem since anybody who would be attempting such a quest would probably have a friend in a analytical lab to help them out right?
Who would you trust to be make your crystal; someone who is serious about clean product, or some crazy old deadhead that has been blindly following the same recipe from their cousin 30 from 30 years ago pumping out tons of "amber" or whatever the fuck that dirty comes from.
I personally would use the new modern BOP method and I wouldn't test anything on a GC/MS. I am highly concerned with purity of end product so I don't see why musical preferences/age/preferred "recipe" would effect the end purity. One could choose the phosphorous oxychloride method, hydrazine method, BOP method, regardless of which method one chooses, the purity at the end will depend upon the caution used by the chemist regarding exposure to air/light and how well they clean/wash their product.
Also, be careful what you believe on these forums from old deadheads like "chinacat" etc. I highly doubt that anyone is going overseas these days and s dropping 100k on ergotamine to smuggle back in the states. As easy as paspali cultures are to obtain, I doubt anyone with the competency to take 100k overseas and smuggle it back in would be dumb enough to go to all that risk wasting 100k when they would have to also be competent enough to obtain a common fungus and culture it out for virtually free.
If I personally were ever trying to make LSD, stricly thinking in practical terms, I would
1. Try to obtain claviceps paspali
2. Extract amides from natural plant sources (yes, this works, but obviously only on tiny scales)
3. Try to obtain ergotamine or tuiable precursor from a source here at home. there are tons of soures here in the states. You're bound to discover a cool one willing to accept a bribe.
4. Try to obtain ergotamine or suitable precursor overseas and smuggle it back at home. But honestly, if that were one's only option, I wouldn't be very confident.
The DEA might try and claim that chemists go to eastern europe as well, but keep in mind that a lot of that information comes from 1980's dead tour chemists, and they obviously aren't very hip to the methods currently used, because I haven't seen them bust anybody with new methods, nor have I seen them write about anybody using new methods in their knowledge. So just because the DEA doesn't say that LSD would be manufactured most commonly from fungus using BOP, don't think it ain't true.
I mean wouldn't you rather grow your alkaloids for free than pay for em? And wouldn't you rather use a comparatively safe and easy to obtain coupling agent? BOP can be easily obtained from multiple chemical suppliers, and it is not dangerous in the lab like other coupling agents from other methods i.e. pocl3, hydrazine, etc.
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Quote:
PsychoKinesiS said:
Why are we talking about kilos? This isn't cocaine. Who sells a KILO of LSD? That's 10,000,000 (strong) doses, with a street retail value of $100,000,000. Why would it be sold for $100K? If it costs $.01 per dose to produce, then that isn't even making any profit for the chemist.
He's talking about ergotamine tartrate.
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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Mr. Bojangles
Breathe In
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1,339
Loc: The Dirty
Last seen: 17 minutes, 19 seconds
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I wouldn't call the BOP method safe. If you used PyBOP then you're good but BOP will make some nasties. If you had access to Lysergic Acid then yeah...you can "one pot" it...but I don't think anyone has legit access to Lysergic Acid. And if I did ever come across some...you can bet your ass that'd be the one precursor I do GC/MS just to make sure I'm getting the good shit. ET is relatively easy to come by and the more common route...but it has intermediates that I, personally, would assay before proceeding.
BTW - why spend any work/time/money trying to buy ET or grow fungus when you can just get medical insurance to pay for Cafergot? All you have to do is separate out the caffeine
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"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
-Fracois Marie Voltaire
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Get medical insurance to pay for cafergot?????!!!!!!?????
Discussion closed.
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Ah, what the hell
Obtain claviceps paspali fungus
Make up a liquid broth containing 1 L distilled water, 50g mannitol, 10 g malic acid, 1 g potassium phosphate, 300 mg magnesium sulfate
sterilize
inoculate with claviceps paspali culture
submerged fermentation for 9 days
extract with bentonite clay
then extract alkaloids from clay
then hydrolyze alkaloids
viola
lysergic acid
purify as preferred
no need for GC/MS
seriously
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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LSD by Otto Snow is an essential book in this subject...
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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Mr. Bojangles
Breathe In
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Posts: 1,339
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Last seen: 17 minutes, 19 seconds
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That's even more involved than the ET route. Whats the yield out of that...how long does it take? Just in the time it takes to submerge for fermentation in 9 days I could of had a doctors appt, went to the pharmacy, got my cafergot, separated it and already GC/MS'ed/purified my intermediate. Possibly even be done the total synthesis.
Plus I'd have to pay for all that shit to cultivate the fungus...I wouldn't have to pay shit for cafergot
EDIT: That is the ET route. You're just making your own ET. The alkaloids you're extracting is ergotamine and then you hydrolyze to get lysergic acid. That's still a 3 step synthesis. So yeah you would need to verify your product/intermediates. seriously.
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"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
-Fracois Marie Voltaire
Edited by Mr. Bojangles (02/18/12 01:07 PM)
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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By all means.... If you have access to 1000 pills of cafergot you could wind up with 250 mg LSD on a good day. The cost of a couple of liters of lc broth is negligible so I guess when you're talking small amounts like that, there's no real advantage to the culture. But on a production scale, cafergots not gonna get you anywhere....
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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The BOP method takes 60 minutes at RT ant you wind up with as much, or a little more LSD than the amount of lysergic acid put into the synth! (after chromatography) That's the best yields of any method. And because the rxn takes place at RT, there is very little iso leftover anyways prior to column...
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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Mr. Bojangles
Breathe In
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1,339
Loc: The Dirty
Last seen: 17 minutes, 19 seconds
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Depends on the OP I guess. 1000 isn't too hard to procure via legal routes. Online you can get more but you'll have to pay
Ideally OP would have a Chinese hook-up...then I'd say go the PyBOP route. It is the easiest and most straightforward for a novice chemist. No toxic fungus, no long synth routes. I've just heard things about how bad it is to procure the lysergic acid from fungus. Doesn't Snow even say it's a particularly nasty process?
I'd still run it through something at the end. I researched a little and you need a derivitization agent to get a GC response to LSD (Sigma says 2:1 BSTFA:LSD @ 75C for a few hours should do the trick). The more I think about it the more HPLC sounds like the way I'd go. You don't even have to worry about the spec lab catching you since most individual labs have HPLC's for use whenever and they're not really watched like GC/MS or NMR machines. It can even separate it for you! Although you will lose a good amount of product, just like column chromatography. Worth it if you ask me. I'm sorry but I used to work in a medicinal lab so I'm a little obsessed with purity, especially when it's so easy to find like minded people who have access to such machines.
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"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."
-Fracois Marie Voltaire
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bourgeo
Pharmacologist & Biochemist
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 192
Loc: Minas Tirith
Last seen: 17 hours, 16 minutes
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Best method to separate Ergotamine from Caffeine?
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The effect of nonsense is often caused by an excess of meaning, rather than a lack of it.
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Shpongle1
Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 1,980
Loc: Above The Clouds
Last seen: 13 minutes, 19 seconds
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Re: LSD Lab Price [Re: bourgeo]
#15832000 - 02/19/12 11:27 AM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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Haha... This is such a ridiculous way to consider making acid even hypothetically. Get Cafergot with your medical insurance to use as a precursor for your LSD lab...?!
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There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined. Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens.
- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.
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LightShedder
Staring at Rhizos
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 2,833
Loc: Amazonia
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Quote:
Mr. Bojangles said:
EDIT: That is the ET route. You're just making your own ET. The alkaloids you're extracting is ergotamine and then you hydrolyze to get lysergic acid. That's still a 3 step synthesis. So yeah you would need to verify your product/intermediates. seriously.
I am really getting sick of repeating myself to the guy who thinks LSD can conceivably be made from cafergot.... You do not need to test ANYTHING in a GC/MS to make 99.999999999% pure LSD. You will know if you're culture is growing properly or not. ASsuming you are starting with a good strain, from there, extraction and hydrolysis is so simple, and the way you retrieve the lysergic acid would be column. So you don't have to worry about purity. Recrystallize if you want at that point. From there, just go about the synth as carefully as you could, then column in the end plus recrystallization of end product, run it in erlichs, eat 50 mics...
Sure, if you want to pretend LSD is distinct from every other substance in that it requires a $30,000 GC/MS to simply create it in pure form, then by all means, wait until you can afford a 30,000 dollar GC/MS if you think that's what it takes. That would be like claiming you need an ultra-trained cannabis connoisseur to simply GROW high quality cannabis. Sure, in the end, it is nice to know that you've got the goods, but to think that this end analytical piece is necessary for the pure product to be made is ludicrous. And in the case of LSD, if you want to assure the column separated, recrystallized product is absolutely pure, all you would need is a mel-temp. So let's stop with the GC/MS nonsense.
In response to the question, "how much does it cost for an individual supply of LSD?" The answer is, depending on method, 5000 dollars to 50,000. And purity is able to be achieved in all methods of each price range, with or without analytical equipment.
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One day, God created LSD through the intercession of blessed Albert Hoffman. This powerful sacrament then went on to enlighten mankind, even the president of america. This ushered in an age of spiritual unity and peace. This allowed for mankind to reach it's full potential including immortality and intergalactic exploration and habitation. Thanks, God.
"If it seems radical, pretend like it is normal."
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bourgeo
Pharmacologist & Biochemist
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 192
Loc: Minas Tirith
Last seen: 17 hours, 16 minutes
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Thank you kind sir. You have been quite informative.
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The effect of nonsense is often caused by an excess of meaning, rather than a lack of it.
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chief_spunion
Stranger
Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 5
Last seen: 2 months, 29 days
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Quote:
Dark_Star said:
Not to make it, to test the product afterwards as any self-respecting chemist would.
One of my closest friends is a chemist that works in drug research & development, and I guarantee that he would laugh his ass off if I showed him this thread.
what kind of a degree did your buddy get for his research position? im finished with the associates and wondering what to claim as my bachelors/masters program when i enroll at the university.
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420Experience
GC#3
Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 296
Loc: Searching the Rabbit Hole...
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Organic Chemistry (specializing in synthesis) for your bachelors, and them maybe Pharmacology for graduate work...
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And as far as I'm concerned, it's like I say, drugs are not the problem. Other stuff is the problem. ~Jerry Garcia
I am a catepillar surfing on smoke through Shpongleland...
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LySergic D
Psychedelic Researcher
Registered: 10/20/11
Posts: 3,037
Loc: Tip of the Mitt
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Don't forget precursor sourcing 101.
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I been balling a shiny black steel jack-hammer,
been chippin' up rocks for the great highway,
live five years if I take my time,
ballin' that jack and a drinkin' my wine.
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chief_spunion
Stranger
Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 5
Last seen: 2 months, 29 days
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:Quote:
Constantine said:
Quote:
Dest said:
Who would you trust to be make your crystal; someone who is serious about clean product, or some crazy old deadhead that has been blindly following the same recipe from their cousin 30 from 30 years ago pumping out tons of "amber" or whatever the fuck that dirty comes from.
..
Ever heard of Owsley Stanley ?
But ya, I guess you could've called him "some crazy old deadhead that's been blindly following the same recipe from 30 years ago pumping out tons of amber shit crystal"
props to that one owlsley was a crazy old man but an insane genius at that, i guess you can consider deadheads outdated old wooks asides from the fact that the family fluff crys recipee is about the pinacle of purity asides from needle-point...
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chief_spunion
Stranger
Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 5
Last seen: 2 months, 29 days
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Thankyou 420 E, thats what i had figured when i talked to a few of my professors and i told them i didnt know what type of chem i was gonna get into just that i wanted to be heavily proficient in chem lab procedure they said about the same thing, minus the pharmacology detail as i dont specify what im into on my own leisure time with them. But yeah asides from this beautiful stuff i consider a passion Ive always loved science and didnt want a degree that would cop out and leave me as a sales rep or answering phones in a chem business,always just wanted to be the dude making new advances in something via chemistry for improvement of anything for mankind (not to be overzealous) but you get the idea,
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Shpongle1
Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 1,980
Loc: Above The Clouds
Last seen: 13 minutes, 19 seconds
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I'm pretty sure I remember reading an interview where he said he was just following actions he had been shown to do or had available written down for him, and that he didn't really know much about it aside from that at the beginning.
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There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined. Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens.
- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.
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leafing
i like the sun
Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 1,954
Loc: BAY AREA 
Last seen: 7 days, 3 hours
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too much
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