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 Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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 1 print = 300 syringe !!!
#15797604 - 02/12/12 12:21 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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Well i dont know if 1 print equal to 300 syrnge ... And thats why i create this post ... I was just excitEd to find a answer for this question ....Thank to dear bishap i ask( realize) this question ...
How much water is could be max to mix with 1 print ...
Example ( to make sure): i got 1 print and i mixed that print with 6 litters of steriled water ...is that means i have 300 of 20ml syringe to use with no problem of mycelium colonization...
Or in other meanin : how consantrAted could be spores in water (minimum)
Alot time and money goes for print& syringe making ... Thanks for answers... And hope you will give what i ask for ... ...
Edited by Hate (02/12/12 12:28 PM)
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 total
Post Office Tyvek Advocator
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,353
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 Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15797643 - 02/12/12 12:30 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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Off one quarter sized print, you can make about 20 syringes...
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: total]
#15797662 - 02/12/12 12:32 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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How much ml each syringe...?
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total
Post Office Tyvek Advocator
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,353
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15797665 - 02/12/12 12:33 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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10-12cc/ml
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GoldenArrow
Stranger
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: total]
#15797684 - 02/12/12 12:36 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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Am I right in saying that from each of those syringes you could make 10 or so 100ml LCs though?
--------------------
"Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night....all day!" 
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: total]
#15797698 - 02/12/12 12:38 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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So like 1 complate print can be mixed into 1 liter .. And gives me 100 syringes .. Right ?
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
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Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15797705 - 02/12/12 12:39 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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As Syringes 20 ml
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total
Post Office Tyvek Advocator
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,353
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15797712 - 02/12/12 12:40 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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Assuming each LC only takes 1 drop to start(it does)...
A metric drop is 1/20ml, so in each ml there are 20 drops...
12ml syringe would have ~240 drops in it...
So i guess you could make ~240 LC's with it...
Quote:
Hate said:
So like 1 complate print can be mixed into 1 liter .. And gives me 100 syringes .. Right ?
Can you even read?
I already told you, that you can get 20 syringes from a print...
Where the hell did you pull this "100" from now?
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GoldenArrow
Stranger
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: total] 1
#15797723 - 02/12/12 12:42 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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Cool, I was going off 1 LC from 1 ml.....seems like someone is trying to start the biggest grow op we've ever seen but can only afford 1 print though...
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"Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night....all day!"
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: total]
#15797734 - 02/12/12 12:44 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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But as for as i remember 1 quarter means 1/4 ... Is that wrong  ... Sorry if its
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total
Post Office Tyvek Advocator
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,353
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15797742 - 02/12/12 12:46 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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"One QUARTER sized print"
As in a print that is the size of a piece of $ that = $0.25
The next coin up from a dime...
One down from a fifty cent piece...
They used to have silver in them...
How big is a whole fraction anyways?
Edited by total (02/12/12 12:48 PM)
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mcsh
Stranger
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: total]
#15797759 - 02/12/12 12:50 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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So about 5 square centimeters to 200ml water?
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total
Post Office Tyvek Advocator
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,353
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: mcsh]
#15797767 - 02/12/12 12:51 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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About twenty 10-12ml/cc syringes per quarter sized print...
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: total]
#15797796 - 02/12/12 12:57 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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One quarter sized print means : one print ? .. I am russian .. I dont know some terms.  ok so .. One print is 10x20ml syringe which is one water cup ... Nearly .. But want to ask ... Mycelium growth starts with finding eichoether of 2 spores right ... If it is right ! Than we can still have change to have mycelium going by some more water per print ??
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total
Post Office Tyvek Advocator
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,353
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15797836 - 02/12/12 01:04 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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When i say "quarter" im describing an American currency coin...
It is about 24mm in diameter...
Do you have a ruble that is 24mm in diameter?
How about...
"One print that is a circle that is 24mm in diameter will make 20 syringes"
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: total]
#15797888 - 02/12/12 01:13 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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I dont know how big a coin is .. I havent see one yet ...And i just thought you are talking about the term quarter ( global one) ... Well i dont know if we have 24 mm metal money... But i know our economy fucked ... Except that ... I am asking .... Mycelium growth starts with finding eichoether of 2 spores right ... If it is right ! Than we can still have change to have mycelium going by some more water per print ?? More than 200 ml per quarter(american coir one )print .... ?? ... A nd a quarter is also global measure... So it would be better to write near of it .. The 24 mm thing ... Every body is not american lol...
Edited by Hate (02/12/12 01:30 PM)
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 1,525
Loc: In a labyrinth
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15797958 - 02/12/12 01:25 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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The one in my sig could have made 100+
Im crazy with spores though, so the solution is normally none transparent 
--------------------
The sky's a brick wall, the grounds a juggernaut. Each day they get a bit closer, between them, i am caught.
I stare in amazement, I can't believe this is where I live
Every breath I take, I feel my lungs seal. This breeze feels more like shards of glass, I'm more scar than skin.
FSRC and FSRE are both accepting donations! Send them your spare prints!!!
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
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Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: HybridprX]
#15798000 - 02/12/12 01:34 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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Wohoo when did you cut the cab ?... So peak and its just beautiful bro. ..
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Infinitys Minute
a universe inside each moment
Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 816
Loc: Zion 
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15798136 - 02/12/12 01:57 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hate said:
Mycelium growth starts with finding eichoether of 2 spores right ... If it is right ! Than we can still have change to have mycelium going by some more water per print ??
You gotta remember these spores are so tiny we can't see them unless they clump together in massive numbers... then they look like a little black/purple speck. A syringe you can't even see the spores in can work just fine - I'm not fully clued in on the details of the spore germination process so I'll leave that part to someone else... But I can say you won't space them out too far, even by making a solution with no spores visible to the naked eye
When you two were having that quarter misunderstanding? Gold. Pure gold. I laughed so hard... It's like a sketch from an old comedy. Priceless.
I admire your commitment, man!
--------------------
All my posts are completely fictional and are for entertainment purposes only.
All images I post are from various search engines and public image hosting web sites and are not my own.
There is no self to which I cling, for I am one with everything.
I left my body on my bed
I flew away inside my head
To dive right through the moon and find
A perfect world inside my mind
Don't do as they say,
just say as they do.
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Mike Reynolds
Stranger
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Or you could get all homeopathic and make massive dilutions. One print could take over the galaxy. 
--------------------
"Dave's not here, man!"
“We are buried beneath the weight of information,
which is being confused with knowledge;
quantity is being confused with abundance and wealth with happiness.
We are monkeys with money and guns.”
― Tom Waits
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Yeh .. The problem is , we dont Use coir in russia ... (Coir use us) ... Hegehe bad one ... Well what happened was rofl . 
About the subject ... Yeh dear infinity ... Dude i am saying .. They are allready too consantrated in print form and maybe mor than 200 ml per print would work ... Like right now i am askin /now have anyone tried to put 1 quarter ( lol ) print to 1 liter water ??? Ok I am going to sleep ...good nights shroomer friends ... 
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sk8ordude
Stranger
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15799208 - 02/12/12 05:08 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Using LCs your quarter print could make thousands.
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: sk8ordude]
#15801173 - 02/12/12 11:31 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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I love lc ... When i get my 3 first print...one goes for lc.. Secon goes for partying with ryes ....Three sits at home with his granma ...
And since i get only three i am hoping to mix the 1 spore print to much as much water ...
Thats reason Of this topic ... You know info is info. ...i didnt lc yet ( well actually i didnt do anything yet except pcing my first jar..).... But what read all this time .. What i wach about lc .. Makes me realize how lc injection could kick spore injection .. At all
Btw another question ... How many ml lc enough for 1lt rye jar ..
Or since you guys mix 1 quart print with one cup water .. ! One cup lc equal to how many print water cup... ? Hope didnt fakt up
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wildernessjunkie
Do Good Asshole
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15801253 - 02/12/12 11:53 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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 I feel like this thread has a lot of mis-communication going on in it.
--------------------
My Trade List
My Philosophy on Trades
VVV Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Thread VVV
Salvia is like that malicious carnival ride operator, the one that sees you getting sick and not having a good time. But the ride you paid for is 5 minutes long...and you WILL get all 5 minutes.
BUTEven the bad trips, are positive when taken in the proper perspective.CLICK HERE TO LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT DRUGS
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
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How you DaRe ....dont you see , İ does speak bests einglish ..
... Welll it is true but not that extreme i hope ..
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Mike Reynolds
Stranger
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15801754 - 02/13/12 04:32 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hate said:
How you DaRe ....dont you see , İ does speak bests einglish ..
... Welll it is true but not that extreme i hope ..
You're doing fine. I struggle with English, and it is my only language!
--------------------
"Dave's not here, man!"
“We are buried beneath the weight of information,
which is being confused with knowledge;
quantity is being confused with abundance and wealth with happiness.
We are monkeys with money and guns.”
― Tom Waits
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15801827 - 02/13/12 05:31 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Thank you mike ... You are kind Dear friend ..
Friends... Quote:
Hate said:
How many ml lc enough for 1lt rye jar ..
Or since you guys mix 1 quart print with one cup water .. ! One cup lc equal to how many print water cup... ?
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Barakanaten
Man in a petri dish
Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 5,963
Loc: PNW Mycosphere
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15802121 - 02/13/12 08:18 AM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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For people not clued in on or would like to know the Germination process.
A typical single spore germinates into a monokaryotic, or homokaryotic mycelium,
which cannot reproduce sexually; when two compatible homokaryotic mycelia join
and form a dikaryotic mycelium, that mycelium may form fruiting bodies
Monokaryotic, or homokaryotic mycelium is the cottony/whispy stuff.
Not all monokaryotic mycelia are compatible, they grow out searching
for one they can join with sexually. Once they join with another compatible
homokaryotic strand, they converge into Dikaryons. Dikaryotic mycelium is the ropey,
root like looking growth we call Rhizomorphic strands.
Its important to not shake your jars up right after you inoculate.
Just let it drip down the inside of the glass, then don't disturb
it till about 30-40% colonization. By not shaking and mixing the
spores all around in the jar, your placing plenty of homokaryotic
choice all side by side. Thus they don't have to grow out and search
for a mate (Filling your jars with monokaryotic mycelium). the choices
will be right there side by side, and you will receive a higher amount
of Rizomorphic growth in your jars.
--------------------
 New to cultivation?  Have a Question? Because AMU We Q&A Know AMU Genetic Library Easy Felt AMU  Official PNW Mushroom Hunting Season 2011"...Though in all else he may be as Saintly as St. Francis, in the pursuit of these ends he is more
Satanic than Satan. He will betray his nearest and dearest without the slightest twitch of flesh or spirit.
He is amoral."
-Definition of a mushroom hunter by ~Angelo Pellegrini 
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
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Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Barakanaten]
#15806854 - 02/14/12 02:46 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I am saying truly .. I am not sadisfied by answer( actualy i dont see any certain answer about my questions ) .... But thanks lDudes i am having some lc injection today... Actually i am on my way to buy jars ... I prepared one 20ml syringe ( used only one print for this , so its kind of concantrate syringe) .. And i want to use some of this in lc making... So how many ml is enough would be ... I am guessing only 1 ml of 20 ml i will use.... But i would like to see your idea too... If you have of course 
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wildernessjunkie
Do Good Asshole
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15807846 - 02/14/12 10:34 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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One drop of spore solution is all you need to make LC.
Be aware that contamination rates are pretty high with LC though, as its very difficult to spot a funky LC unless you do test jars.
I think you would be better off sticking with traditional MS inoculated BRF Cakes. That way you are almost guaranteed a bunch of spore prints, then you wont have to deal with LC again.
--------------------
My Trade List
My Philosophy on Trades
VVV Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Thread VVV
Salvia is like that malicious carnival ride operator, the one that sees you getting sick and not having a good time. But the ride you paid for is 5 minutes long...and you WILL get all 5 minutes.
BUTEven the bad trips, are positive when taken in the proper perspective.CLICK HERE TO LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT DRUGS
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boommer
Deforestation Operation
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Posts: 480
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15807905 - 02/14/12 10:51 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hate said:
I love lc ... When i get my 3 first print...one goes for lc.. Secon goes for partying with ryes ....Three sits at home with his granma ...
why use an entire print on 1 lc?
--------------------
"Great minds have purposes, little minds have wishes"
Dont have patience? BUILD A TIME MACHINE...
     
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GoldenArrow
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/11
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Loc: UK
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Quote:
wildernessjunkie said:
One drop of spore solution is all you need to make LC.
Be aware that contamination rates are pretty high with LC though, as its very difficult to spot a funky LC unless you do test jars.
I think you would be better off sticking with traditional MS inoculated BRF Cakes. That way you are almost guaranteed a bunch of spore prints, then you wont have to deal with LC again.
You've lost me there....I thought the route was spore print > spores in water > LC > inoculate?
--------------------
"Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night....all day!"
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thealldayshit
T.A.D.S
Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 117
Loc: Lost in Space
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: GoldenArrow]
#15808112 - 02/14/12 12:03 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I like 2 start with multispore inoculation. Grow it out and make a clone of the fastest and best looking fruit
PS: i dip my mushrooms in a 3% hydrogen peroxide solution before cloning and get 100% success no contaminants 
--------------------
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ManInBlack
Stranger
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15808199 - 02/14/12 12:30 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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funniest thread ive ever read
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: boommer]
#15808225 - 02/14/12 12:38 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
wildernessjunkie said:
One drop of spore solution is all you need to make LC.
Hey dude junkey .. Doesnt that drop depend on How concantrate the spore syringe? ( i mean; 1 print to 250 ml water .. And 1 print to 1 litter water; drops wont be having same quantity of spores in them ... If these drops works same .. Than i mix the 1 print to one litter water and get 1000 lc with it .( this was the question off this topic btw)..Quote:
boommer said:
Quote:
Hate said:
I love lc ... When i get my 3 first print...one goes for lc.. Secon goes for partying with ryes ....Three sits at home with his granma ...
why use an entire print on 1 lc?
Hey boomer .. Dud sory about that .. I dint mean to inoculate all print syringe to lc .. I used it in my firs rye jar ( 5 ml of spore water injected in 350 ml rye jar ) for now ..and about lc.. The lc jar is cooling today, tomorrow i will use 2ml of spore syringe for lc...lc jar is 350 ml and 3 tablespoon of honey used.
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15808270 - 02/14/12 12:47 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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And dear friends .. Lc rocks ..
I love lc because .. When you inject spores they dont have the defend mechanizm yet .. They are not as strong as mycelium .. But when you do lc .. You will suck something up of spore .. More strong and molds know that .. No one fucks with big myco .. He is the boss in his jar ... Why do you think mushrooms looks like dicks..heheh
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15808428 - 02/14/12 01:24 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Oh man in black heyo... Try this one http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=886829&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart
This guy made a "birthday cake" instead of "pf tek cake " .. You can not fuck up more than this ... Love it
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Mike Reynolds
Stranger
Registered: 02/07/12
Posts: 177
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15809571 - 02/14/12 05:11 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hate said:
Oh man in black heyo... Try this one http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=886829&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart
This guy made a "birthday cake" instead of "pf tek cake " .. You can not fuck up more than this ... Love it
Not a happy birthday, either.
--------------------
"Dave's not here, man!"
“We are buried beneath the weight of information,
which is being confused with knowledge;
quantity is being confused with abundance and wealth with happiness.
We are monkeys with money and guns.”
― Tom Waits
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CasperJames
n00b
Registered: 01/29/12
Posts: 63
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Oh man in black heyo... Try this one http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=886829&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart
This guy made a "birthday cake" instead of "pf tek cake " .. You can not fuck up more than this ... Love it
hahahaha thanks for posting that one. I needed a good giggle.
--------------------
LET MY PEOPLE GROW!
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: CasperJames]
#15810571 - 02/14/12 08:09 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Ahahahah right !!
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wildernessjunkie
Do Good Asshole
Registered: 06/13/10
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: GoldenArrow]
#15811583 - 02/14/12 11:39 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
GoldenArrow said:
Quote:
wildernessjunkie said:
One drop of spore solution is all you need to make LC.
Be aware that contamination rates are pretty high with LC though, as its very difficult to spot a funky LC unless you do test jars.
I think you would be better off sticking with traditional MS inoculated BRF Cakes. That way you are almost guaranteed a bunch of spore prints, then you wont have to deal with LC again.
You've lost me there....I thought the route was spore print > spores in water > LC > inoculate?
Thats correct. Except in general, I advocate against the LC. Straight up MS inoculation is more reliable than LC.
--------------------
My Trade List
My Philosophy on Trades
VVV Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Thread VVV
Salvia is like that malicious carnival ride operator, the one that sees you getting sick and not having a good time. But the ride you paid for is 5 minutes long...and you WILL get all 5 minutes.
BUTEven the bad trips, are positive when taken in the proper perspective.CLICK HERE TO LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT DRUGS
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LSDilocybin
I AM
Registered: 08/21/05
Posts: 580
Loc: omnipresent
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the reason MS is cleaner is because with LC it gives not only time for spores to germinate and grow, but also bacterial contams and other contams time to grow as well.
--------------------
"We are perfect mirrors in the sun and we brightly shine, we are singing and dancing in perfect time, there is nothing in the world that we can do, to stop the light of love come shining through" --Sally Oldfield
     "Vibrate in Love."
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GoldenArrow
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/11
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Last seen: 1 hour, 22 minutes
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: LSDilocybin]
#15811699 - 02/15/12 12:24 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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So if you're clean when making the LC and test it first you're golden?
Does LC require GE or can the container be airtight?
Just trying to formulate the best plan here....
--------------------
"Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night....all day!"
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: LSDilocybin]
#15811722 - 02/15/12 12:29 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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But guys lc is like the easyest deal and like greatest clone idea .... And it gives you straight myco... Myco is can not be damaged by bacteria ... The ms injections more sensitive deals since its not myco but spore .... Sure at the and things depends on how we sterile the substrate ...This is what i think. Quote:
LSDilocybin said:
the reason MS is cleaner is because with LC it gives not only time for spores to germinate and grow, but also bacterial contams and other contams time to grow as well.
Hey man ... Dud i guess if lc jar has inside anything except myco , you would understand it ... . Lc :S oh and golden arrow ... İ think it is not a deal .. Since we just drill one hole to lc jar ... Check this beauty by otto ..http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5238137
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Hate
The_red_warrior
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 90
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: 1 print = 300 syringe !!! [Re: Hate]
#15812003 - 02/15/12 02:21 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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And i was over mushroom identification part... Saw this one there ... For Rofl lovers...http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15808851
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