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 trigger
non-trusted identifier
Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 2,010
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 work
#15796798 - 02/12/12 08:35 AM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
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when it comes to work I need some advice.
I start my day busy, doing things, preparing for various activities, and or studying something. As the day progresses I find my self very fatigued and uninterested, either powering on or changing course , I get little done. That is compared to the output of work I can do in the evening. In the evening I can easily find interest and focus on an activity.
I am a creative person with a wife and son who rely on me for income. I recently committed myself to only the sales of my wood sculptures. It was a difficult decision, my wife and I coming from poverty with no help or support network had to choose to rely on either my art or my labor. I recently singed a land contract for my property and invested the rest of my money into wood working tools. I now have no choice but to sculpt.
I find it very difficult to get any work done in the day, with evenings full of inspiration and frustration. frustration for I can not work with power tools hammers and chainsaws at night or evening. I have neighbors and no available shop.
Any advice please.
I have combated my problems with fatigue since childhood, it seems to trouble me the most.
I just started as an artist and am terrified if I can or can't support my family. I know I can sculpt on a professional level of fine art. I have apprenticed for 9 years, and have invested all in to one opportunity. there is no turning back, I could really use a mentor with work. I do all day but little is getting done.
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If you want to under stand me more better, use a hillbilly redneck voice while trans posing my words
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,605
Loc: underbelly
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Artists tend to starve, good luck.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Midnight_Toker
Strange
Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 4,067
Loc: Canada 
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Your dog is taking a shit.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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My suggestion would be to not have kids you can't afford yet.
That kid is going to be a giant anchor chained to your leg for the rest of your life, and the drain will very likely lead to your venture eventually failing, followed shortly by your marriage failing, followed by your return to shit, dead-end work for someone else who was smart enough not to have kids until he was financially ready. That won't be the end of it. For the next two decades or so a huge fraction of your dead-end income will go to pay child support to a woman you'll wonder how you ever could have married in the first place.
Sorry, but you did ask for our opinion.
Look on the bright side. You might get lucky and defeat the path that, from what I've seen, almost everyone in your situation travels in life. You might even win the lottery. Hell, the odds are only 20 million to one against you.
It's a shame really. You appear talented.
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor
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I am thinking a 'Field of Dreams' outdoor museum with 18 life-sized figures on a regulation field.
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This is your drain on brugs.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 14,298
Loc: Americas
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By the way, how are the hungry newts doing?
Remember, you don't need to be paid to do what you love- nobody says you can't be an artist if you aren't making money.
As such, you need to figure out what you need to be reasonably content and do what you need to get that. If being an artist falls short, then consider something else.
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor
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This is your drain on brugs.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,605
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
Diploid said:
My suggestion would be to not have kids you can't afford yet.
That kid is going to be a giant anchor chained to your leg for the rest of your life, and the drain will very likely lead to your venture eventually failing, followed shortly by your marriage failing, followed by your return to shit, dead-end work for someone else who was smart enough not to have kids until he was financially ready. That won't be the end of it. For the next two decades or so a huge fraction of your dead-end income will go to pay child support to a woman you'll wonder how you ever could have married in the first place.
Sorry, but you did ask for our opinion.
Look on the bright side. You might get lucky and defeat the path that, from what I've seen, almost everyone in your situation travels in life. You might even win the lottery. Hell, the odds are only 20 million to one against you.
It's a shame really. You appear talented.
bingo but who ever takes good advice?
but if honesty is something he can really make use of I'll say his work is nice but nothing I haven't seen all over this area in run down roadside stands near the redwoods and some I've seen is a bit better. I'd plan on keeping my expenses to a minimum and finding a day job.
I sincerely hope this helps.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
Edited by Icelander (02/12/12 12:25 PM)
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trigger
non-trusted identifier
Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 2,010
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the newt is fat now, he was hibernating when the local food shop closed, I woke him and he's now eating maggots and awaiting flies.
some excellent advice.... i do appreciate any even if its just for thought.
as for my son, never a burden, my best friend, and by far the best investment in life ever. some people are meant for family some are not, I get that. as for being a starving artist, its better than a starving laborer. I am in collage though the growing art form of chainsaw sculpting is looking more lucrative than any thing my local collage will offer me. It was a difficult decision to put my self into art for a career, cant turn back now . I have a buyer that claims he is investing in me. he is buying all of my sculptures and is bugging me intensely to get the next four done. I am only making minimum wage currently and need to break free of this guy. he will continue to buy at the rate witch leaves me with min wadge, there is room to double or triple my earnings if I had a shop, witch is out of my budget. Along with my carving i am constructing a mill to process lumber to make a shop and addition to my home. this will take much time. almost trapped by making min wadge, as hours with work are limited to mornings that i cant seem to work on. its my morning fatigue that stops me from getting 10-14 hrs of work in in a day. i work at home and have my family with me, it is stressful but i would not want it any other way.
i really need to just do more, i want to, iam pumped, and i cant figure what is exactly in my way besides a life of morning fatigue.
dont get me wrong, i am not lazy in the morning, its just lack of inspiration, lack of creativity, lack of that fire in me that when the sun goes down becomes ablaze.
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If you want to under stand me more better, use a hillbilly redneck voice while trans posing my words
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor
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With a chainsaw, you could always wait until young hot coeds in denim cut-offs and tank tops have a car break-down near your cabin... Oh, wait! I have been watching too many late-nite slasher movies. Nevermind.
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This is your drain on brugs.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,605
Loc: underbelly
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its just lack of inspiration, lack of creativity, lack of that fire in me that when the sun goes down becomes ablaze.
just listened to a program on NPR about this. You should work at night dude and don't try to fix that cause you won't succeed. Work at night.
The other thing is that with the economy where it is you will have more struggle then otherwise. Them's just the breaks.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,228
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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as for my son, never a burden, my best friend, and by far the best investment in life ever
I don't dispute that for one second. What I take issue with is your timing. You've put the cart before the horse, IMO.
Unless you get supremely lucky, your son will live the same life of poverty you lived. Had you waited and invested the money your son will require to grow up healthy in a workshop instead, you could now work at any hour of the day or night when you find inspiration and not worry about waking neighbors. Then later in life when you were on better financial footing, you could have still had a son (or a dozen) and given him the financial security he deserves.
Instead, you're now tied to family and expenses that will (probably) forever prevent you from ever opening that workshop, and (probably) has already condemned your son to poverty and hard work that will only benefit someone else's kids.
I am in collage though the growing art form of chainsaw sculpting is looking more lucrative than any thing my local collage will offer me.
Quitting school is another giant mistake almost everyone like you makes, in my experience, and almost every one of them regrets it later in life. But you won't take my advice, I know, because almost everyone in your situation gets the same advice and lives to regret not taking it.
Good luck man. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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 falcon
In the green
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 5,150
Last seen: 4 hours, 8 minutes
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I've seen some stumps in peoples yards that have been left with a good bit above the ground and have been sculpted into birds, bears, ect. Don't know who is doing them I'm guessing whoever does these makes more a lot more than minimum wage.
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trigger
non-trusted identifier
Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 2,010
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Quote:
Icelander said:
just listened to a program on NPR about this. You should work at night dude and don't try to fix that cause you won't succeed. Work at night.
i will try to find the program and dig into it. Working at night feels right, its is general custom in my area to rise with the sun and work in the morning, everyone around me insist I need to just figure it out and work in the mornings and day. thank you for advise that i can dig into and perhaps find great insight. as for actually working at evening and night, i must build a work shop on my property and sound proof it, or perhaps rent a shop in a secluded area.
I plan to do show work with chainsaw carving. I have not preformed carving in front of an audience, yet I apprenticed a show carver for 9 years and understand it fully. I found inspiration in this vid link below. i do not plan to carve anything typical of chainsaw carving (no bears! eagles, fish, alligators, raccoon's, ext.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vdJejx8lPMY
diploid, you may be correct, for what you state is true for my life and my fathers path. i found more than enough inspiration with having my son(2yr old currently signing in background), inspiration that was not there before him. my wife the same, Before I had a family i had no one at all, and my life was a mess. now i struggle to make ends meet but my progress is in leaps and i am digging to find a way to a more comfortable life. And if i fall short I can be happy living a simple life of labor. I will not fall short on my son though, money has noting to do with raising kids.
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If you want to under stand me more better, use a hillbilly redneck voice while trans posing my words
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,605
Loc: underbelly
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Money does have something to do with raising kids. 
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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trigger
non-trusted identifier
Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 2,010
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Money does have something to do with raising kids.
there is a list of things far more important than money, I understand how money is a essential tool with raising children, yet it is completely external to the process. being born with privilege is just that, nothing more. the walk through poverty is not much different than the walk through wealth, both share there pros and cons, its that wealth is more shinny and appealing. bees and ants.
as the subject is interesting and thought provoking, i do not wish wealth, i wish to work, to work more, that is all that is in my way. I need to just get more done, all will fall in place as i do.
falcon,
most carver make a decent wage, middle income, the good carvers tend to carve less, and the lesser more. i stared from scratch over the summer, i have purchased 60% of the equipment I need and production is just slow do to lack of tools. this means low wage. most other carvers on the other hand start carving as a side job in witch they switch to or only partially rely on. i'll get the tools eventually.
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If you want to under stand me more better, use a hillbilly redneck voice while trans posing my words
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,605
Loc: underbelly
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Never said other things weren't more important. I was responding to your post saying money has nothing to do with raising kids. If you don't mean something it's best not to say it.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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 bananaman
thinker
Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 315
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 4 minutes, 44 seconds
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Mr. OP, you will be fine. You say you deal with fatigue. So do I. My solution: drink loads and loads of coffee. And when my stomach isn't really liking it, I drink a ton of tea. Cups and cups and cups. Makes me pee a lot, but it really works. Helps with problem solving and that stream of consciousness creative thinking that we all enjoy.
Another solution: motivate yourself. Your son is your inspiration. Having a happy comfortable family is your goal. Maybe hang up a portrait of them (and you!) in your workplace. That will encourage you to be all you can be as an artist.
Also, be aggressive when it comes to selling your art or whatever you do. You can be the best goddamn sculptor out there if you want it bad enough. Get out there and bring home that bacon. I also heard that some rich people nowadays are so rich and bored that they are buying art for shits and giggles. You should really try to associate yourself with some classy people and sell yourself. Make them invest in you.
You should be happy you have chosen a career where you can express yourself through sculpture. That is freakin' sweet. You have got talent, tools, and a loving/supportive family who also serve as your motivation. All you need to just get out there and fuck shit up.
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X___________________
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trigger
non-trusted identifier
Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 2,010
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Never said other things weren't more important. I was responding to your post saying money has nothing to do with raising kids. If you don't mean something it's best not to say it.
sorry was in a hurry and felt a need to defend my self, i agree that money dose have something to do with kids, it has allot to do with raising children. If my wife and I were not as thrifty and self sufficient we would have been out of our means with child raising. self suntanning is a practice few partake in. The point in my life where poverty will truly affect my son is when he is a man and I set him free. I will hand him my legacy, and I hope more.
i appreciate the conversation, I live in the boonies and have no one to talk to, at least no one with any thing good to say.
bananaman solid advice, I'll be mulling this over.
well in the morning i am going to order a semi load of oversize logs (to big for milling and cheep for me), some will be 100years plus in age and up to a half ton per 8-10 ft log, ill get some pictures up, i think i may poop myself, its a bit scary tackling a log the size of a porty john.
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If you want to under stand me more better, use a hillbilly redneck voice while trans posing my words
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Philosophical
Psychonaut
Registered: 02/12/12
Posts: 9
Loc: ausfag
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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If coffee doesn't do it find a Ritalin connection. Pharmaceutical Stimulants used at threshold dosage won't do much if any damage in the long run, I do not suggest daily usage.
The internet is a great way to sell worthless shit. Maybe add some jargon to get it going, ancient ruins from a cannibalistic tribal society which worships deities of LUCK and POWER.
If you crash and burn, I guess you can sell psychedelics and marijuana.
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Only way this world can change is to legalise weed and psychedelics and start educating the masses with science and spirituality. Fuck capitalism and consumerism you've destroyed so much of the planet and its species its unforgivable.
Keep calm and rip bongs and eat your consciousness expanders
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 23,674
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 10 hours, 21 minutes
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Quote:
trigger said:
i do not plan to carve anything typical of chainsaw carving (no bears! eagles, fish, alligators, raccoon's, ext.
My advice would be to drop this ridiculous line in the sand. I thought you were going to do this stuff professionally, with the purpose of earning an income to support your family. Now you're specifying what you won't produce? If you're an artist with no obligations and responsibilities, you can create whatever the fuck you want. If you're simply focusing on earning an income for a family while doing something you love, you make what your god damn customers want you to make, at least in the short-term. Why would you take a list of things that people typically want to buy in your domain and turn away money for no good reason?
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,605
Loc: underbelly
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This is very good advice. If you want to be in a position to only take the jobs one wants that privilege will need to be earned by doing whatever comes along and likely for a long time. Unless of course you're already rich. Hell you don't even have all your tools yet.
I did a lot of shit I didn't want to do but I did it and made the most of it and was retired by 54.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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trigger
non-trusted identifier
Registered: 08/13/06
Posts: 2,010
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good point, i am currently carving sports action figures, life size and trying to make them as life like as possible(tool limited). Before i started carving, i had been working for a carver, he told me that a guy wanted a bunch of baseball and football players, and was bugging him to get some carved. the man i worked for did not make figures and i was broke at the time, so i figured why not give it a try. The guy bought my carving and three others after that, he is waiting for more. my next 4 are sold, and if the guy who is buying my sculptures is satisfied he will continue to buy.
i am hesitant to dive in to what my buyer is exactly doing for he has not discussed much with me. he says he is investing in me(buying sculptures at (1/4th-1/3rd price) and shipping them to sports clubs and stadiums on display. he claims that as he develops a collection, he will also be building a web sight and then becoming a representative to resale the sculptures.
what i do know for sure about the situation is that he is a upper end middle class banker with some very rich sports fanatic friends.
i take this only for what it is currently, and that the buyer is giving me an opportunity to start work as an artist.
typically carvers go on the road and do shows at festivals, selling their art along the way.
i would like to create a gallery and try to get it exhibited. such as the field of dreams mentioned in the above post.
My plan for a theme on a gallery, hasn't been chosen yet and i need to asap. I have narrowed it to three choices with an open door for others. once i start i must finish and to create a gallery of work could take a year or three.
my ideas are; 1, life like gods from the world around, like a centaur, a pharaoh, buddah, jeasus on a cross, maybe the arch angel michal standing on the devil, a phoenix or griffin perhaps, ext.
idea2 a bondage dungon with figures tied up haing from walls, maybe a big wheel with a naked gimp tied to it(a functional piece that u can spin) sexy girls with whips and chains, ext.
idea 3 its kind hard to explain, but its a collection of colorful boxy and curvy bold geometric interpretations of daily life. like a shiny wood cube that represents a tv, a large golden arch that is a goat, a human figure, bulbous and with out features (crash dummy like), in ways i want to carve things that look like late 80's computer graphics of reality. i would have to post some pics to get the visual of what i am talking about, my words fail me.
well as i am creating sports figures i want to start this gallery on the side, and finish it with in a year or two. i plan to pay my home off in 3 years (it is only 24k, 18k to go) I would like to sell my home or just mortgage it, (iam buying in cash) and then open the doors to living somewhere more suitable for my family and art career.
any input on my three ideas?
and fireworks_god, yet it was a bit ridiculous to say, i should keep the doors open, (currently carving sports figures, i hate sports) i do not intend to take that path that most chainsaw carvers take, i want a more professional route, typically carvers create folk art, and sell in small market.
i relay want to put on a mask and jumpsuit, grab my 80cc monster saw, block a 120yr old log, the grab my lil saw and carve it up, then maybe hook up a jacobs latter and a few electrical arches to burn off the ruff wood(something i haven't done yet, tho within my means), or just torch it. putting on a show, all with a gallery for sale. its practical and will happen but to what extent? i am not sure as i just started carving.
Yeah i am a bit eccentric, I do much appreciate the conversation, advises and ideas, please keep them coming especially if you have read my ramblings thus far.
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If you want to under stand me more better, use a hillbilly redneck voice while trans posing my words
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 23,674
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 10 hours, 21 minutes
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Well, it definitely seems like you have a lot of great ideas, and the capacities to make it happen, and clearly enthusiasm to boot considering the way you vividly express your ideas here, so those are all huge pluses in terms of making your dreams come true, both the ideal and the practical. 
What's your sleep schedule like? Actually, your schedule in general, more in detail (like, for example, in segments of a half-hour). If you organize yourself in the right ways, I think it'll be a lot easier to maximize your efforts each day.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor
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Trigger should draw the line somewhere - NO RED PANDAS! Only animals native to North America.
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This is your drain on brugs.
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Panoramix
Getafix
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 634
Loc: Everywhere else
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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You mention you live in the boonies. I assume then that you have some sort of motor vehicle, ideally a truck? And that most of your tools are gas-powered? I'm not sure how it is in your area, but around here there are lots of spots where you could be noisy with a chainsaw without anyone complaining. It's not the most practical solution, given that the logs and equipment you're working with are quite heavy, but maybe you could do your work elsewhere? Sleep late, have a slow, relaxed morning of packing up your vehicle while you're still sluggish. Be ready to go by the early afternoon, head out somewhere suitable and work until you're satisfied with the amount you've gotten done. By somewhere suitable, I'm thinking a farmer's field. If you were on Wolfe Island, I know of half a dozen farms where if you drove up to their house, knocked, were polite and explained that you're a carver and you work with chainsaws and need a place to carve without disturbing anyone, they'd let you use their back 40 for a pittance. If you were going to be doing it periodically you could probably work out a longer-term rate for land use that would be very inexpensive, relatively speaking. Most farmers I know would be happy for the chance to earn some extra money off their land provided you only left behind wood chips and sawdust. When the sun goes down, have a pole to hang a trouble-light off of and your vehicle's headlights on dimmer lighting up your workspace from the other side. And maybe some tiki torches for atmosphere...
Hmm, maybe it's a crazy idea, and totally unworkable to your situation. As far as advice goes, though, it HAS to be at least as good as 'un-have your kid'.
Your concept of wealth seems spot on. It's best not to have waited until a loved one dies to realize that time spent with family (oftentimes the family you make or choose for yourself) is the most valuable thing in the world.
Anyways, you seem to have the two most important pieces of advice I would give you figured out for yourself. 1. Don't try to fight your body's natural rhythms, particularly if you're engaging in creative processes. If your body wants to work in the evenings, try to find a way to work in the evenings. 2. Get away from that upper-middle class banker as quickly as you responsibly can. Those sports-fanatic fuckers throw ridiculous amounts of money around for jerseys and paraphanalia and shit. I shudder to think how much that banker guy is likely making off of the sale of your sculptures, just because he runs in the right circles.
As for your ideas for alternate subject matter, it seems like the least marketable, but I found #3 to be by far the most interesting-sounding. My head says you should ignore esoteric artsy stuff until you're more established and comfortable, but my gut says that maybe your #3 ideas are the ones that get you established in the first place. You're so close to living your dream, I'm frankly quite envious.
And don't worry, I'll hold the proper funeral services for the innocent souls of the lovely old trees whose corpses you so ruthlessly massacre with your chainsaws on your behalf.
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Don't worry, I'm wrong.
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