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 wildchild68
lion in a coma
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 Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus?  [Re: Not Quite Social] 1
#15803529 - 02/13/12 02:16 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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I'd love it if paul ran as an independent. I honestly think he would have a fighting chance.
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 SneezingPenis
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: fireworks_god]
#15803555 - 02/13/12 02:22 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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it isnt that i dont think he is honest, but he has really only been in politics for a very short time. I dont play nepotism, so just because i admire his father so much doesnt mean he cant be a bratty, rich kid living off legacy.
plus i think the tea party movement is about the same amount of useless activism bump as the OWS.... one that doesnt inform or bring about change and is generally just a group of people brought together by their desire to funnel their outrage over whatever minutia they read on facebook that morning that pushed them over the edge.
at least the OWS movement requires people to participate rather than angrily blog about how everything is poor peoples fault.... regardless of how sophomoric the premise is.
so... no, im not a huge fan of rand, nor do i dislike the guy.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#15804121 - 02/13/12 04:13 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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> but he has really only been in politics for a very short time.
He has been in politics longer than most people that post here have been alive. His first term in Congress was in 1976.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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LloydChristmas
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: Seuss]
#15804168 - 02/13/12 04:23 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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His first term was at the age of 13? That's pretty impressive.
Just kidding, he was referring to Rand not Ron.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: Not Quite Social]
#15804246 - 02/13/12 04:35 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Not Quite Social said:
After he's done milking the Republican contest for what it's worth, hopefully he'll sidestep and become an independent candidate- if he doesn't, then he's worthless to anyone (except maybe Rand, who doesn't seem too bright to me). I'm speaking as one who recently voted for Paul here in Missouri. --The media bias against Paul has trained the conservative Moderators here and Zappa to likewise actively dismiss Paul. They just parrot the corporate media's dishonsest tactic. They don't like the message so they dismiss the messenger. They prefer murdering Arabs and they prefer locking people up for non-violent drug use, possession & sale--instead of saying that, though, they say "kook" and "L. Ron"; they even tried playing the race card, which they complain about to no end when others do it. Link? Source? Bah. They know it's true.
This is kind of funny since for years you and all the other Paulbots have blathered about how L. Ron has been ignored by the corporate media. Now the same corporate media which has ignored him has managed to brainwash me and some others.
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 Not Quite Social
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: zappaisgod] 2
#15805243 - 02/13/12 07:14 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
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Nah, I only recently decided to vote for Paul based on (1) anti-war/draw-down of the military, and (2) anti-drug war.
I don't agree with everything Paul says. But, see, I have two good reasons I can point to for supporting him.
I'm not mindless as your use of the insults "Paulbot", "L. Ron", and "Kook".
Instead of hurling insults, be positive! Which candidate do you support who'd rather not kill Ahmad or lock up Dopey?
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Seuss
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: LloydChristmas]
#15806892 - 02/14/12 03:21 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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> Just kidding, he was referring to Rand not Ron.
Oops, my bad. Yeah, Rand has not had much political experience.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: Not Quite Social]
#15806999 - 02/14/12 04:38 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Not Quite Social said:
Nah, I only recently decided to vote for Paul based on (1) anti-war/draw-down of the military, and (2) anti-drug war.
I don't agree with everything Paul says. But, see, I have two good reasons I can point to for supporting him.
I'm not mindless as your use of the insults "Paulbot", "L. Ron", and "Kook".
Instead of hurling insults, be positive! Which candidate do you support who'd rather not kill Ahmad or lock up Dopey?
A great many Ahmads need killing and L. Ron can't do a fucking thing about drug prohibition even if he was Pres. That is almost entirely prosecuted at the state level and he is a huge states' rights guy. Like allowing states to ban abortion huge.
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Not Quite Social
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: zappaisgod]
#15807114 - 02/14/12 05:52 AM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I don't know what incentive or resources states would have to lock up so many non-violent drug offenders with the Fed gov. out of the picture. Both the military and prison industrial complexes are huge federal government workfare programs that states couldn't afford to run by themselves. I continue to think Ron Paul could make very significant changes in these areas. He sure would upset a lot of people who should have chosen more honorable livelihoods. --It's funny to me how enthusiastic you are about killing Ahmads. The USA loves its caricatured ethnic foreign boogeymen. You're old enough to see how it works, how the enemy has shifted from spooks, to the Russians, to Muslim extremists/terrorists--the target is chosen and the xenophobic hate is fanned--and the war profiteers, Boeing, Haliburton, etc. do quite well. They should send you a thank you note.
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Edited by Not Quite Social (02/14/12 06:06 AM)
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zappaisgod
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: Not Quite Social]
#15809205 - 02/14/12 04:11 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Not Quite Social said:
I don't know what incentive or resources states would have to lock up so many non-violent drug offenders with the Fed gov. out of the picture.
Why would you ever think that considering that it is them that imprison most people for drug crimes? And drug prohibition is quite popular with the electorate. Further isolating the office of the President of the United States is the power to pass laws. All he can do is sign or veto them. Congress will never send a bill repealing all federal drug laws to his desk.Quote:
Both the military and prison industrial complexes are huge federal government workfare programs that states couldn't afford to run by themselves.
Ignoring the more deranged parts of that sludge, the states are paying most of the prison bill. Do you have a problem with the existence of prisons? Quote:
I continue to think Ron Paul could make very significant changes in these areas. He sure would upset a lot of people who should have chosen more honorable livelihoods.
Why would you think L. Ron would make any difference when he has well over a decade in political office of not accomplishing anything. Quote:
--It's funny to me how enthusiastic you are about killing Ahmads. The USA loves its caricatured ethnic foreign boogeymen. You're old enough to see how it works, how the enemy has shifted from spooks, to the Russians, to Muslim extremists/terrorists--the target is chosen and the xenophobic hate is fanned--and the war profiteers, Boeing, Haliburton, etc. do quite well. They should send you a thank you note.
I don't think we chose our sworn enemies. They choose us.
Who the fuck do you think you're zooming with this Paulbot incarnation? Everybody in the room knows you'll vote for Obama. Unless somebody even more extreme left runs.
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Not Quite Social
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: zappaisgod]
#15809927 - 02/14/12 06:06 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I did vote for Paul. If he runs as an independent, I will vote for Paul. Paul is left of Obama. Also, I am basically pro-life, so I'm more aligned with Paul in that respect, as well. I'm not zooming.
With respect to state vs federal funding of prisons, I admit I'd need to look more into that, but my intuition, as a former state employee with some routine experience dealing with budgets, is that states are incentivized through matching funds or some other subsidies or waivers to incarcerate people. Maybe there's someone here who can shed more light on this. I know that's how Medicaid works, for example. If the feds got out of Medicaid, so would the states to a huge degree, because where Medicaid doesn't pay 100% it frequently pays 40 to 60% for many programs. The Feds help finance states like this (1) to help provide a benefit, and (2) to control states, to force them to abide by federally determined standards. As President, Paul would appoint the directors who administered such controls over states; therefore--I say again--I believe Paul would have a lot of influence over who gets locked up in this country, especially considering his emphasis on civil liberties.
Underlying all this is a real cynicism about the trustworthiness & effectiveness any politician, including Paul.
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Edited by Not Quite Social (02/14/12 06:11 PM)
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Led Zeppelin
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: Shill]
#15810266 - 02/14/12 07:13 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Shill said:
If he runs as independent it will split the non-Obama vote even more, and in turn, increase Obamas chances
oh arent you a smart one.
that is pretty much, in turn, pretty fuckin obvious.
doesn't matter though he might as well run 3rd party. obama and romney are the same
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Led Zeppelin
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: zappaisgod]
#15810288 - 02/14/12 07:17 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Not Quite Social said:
Ignoring the more deranged parts of that sludge, the states are paying most of the prison bill. Do you have a problem with the existence of prisons? Quote:
I continue to think Ron Paul could make very significant changes in these areas. He sure would upset a lot of people who should have chosen more honorable livelihoods.
Why would you think L. Ron would make any difference when he has well over a decade in political office of not accomplishing anything.
not accomplishing anything? if your only definition of accomplishing anything is passing laws then he hasn't done shit but thats because the rest of the government is corrupt and against him so its hard for him to a pass a law by himself.
I would say that energizing young people and getting them into politics while also being an honest politician who sticks to his principles is pretty fuckin accomplished.
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If acid puts you in the drivers seat, and mushrooms put you in the passenger seat...then DXM puts you in the trunk
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fireworks_god
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: Led Zeppelin]
#15811797 - 02/15/12 12:51 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Led Zeppelin said:
doesn't matter though he might as well run 3rd party. obama and romney are the same
They are much more similar to each other than either one of them of them is to Ron Paul, but the fact remains that, compared to each other on their own merits, there is a lot of difference between the two, in terms of how their presidencies would look. I understand being so involved in the RP worldview that relatively everything else looks the same, but in order to judge how similar they actually are, you need to take off the RP shades. 
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SneezingPenis
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: fireworks_god] 1
#15812581 - 02/15/12 07:54 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Led Zeppelin said:
doesn't matter though he might as well run 3rd party. obama and romney are the same
They are much more similar to each other than either one of them of them is to Ron Paul, but the fact remains that, compared to each other on their own merits, there is a lot of difference between the two, in terms of how their presidencies would look. I understand being so involved in the RP worldview that relatively everything else looks the same, but in order to judge how similar they actually are, you need to take off the RP shades.
well since this primary Romney has had to do a lot of flip flopping to distance himself from Obama. the only thing Romney hasnt changed his mind on is his haircut.
on topic:
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BobTheFreemason
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#15812911 - 02/15/12 09:36 AM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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For all the people that think Paul can't accomplish his goals even if elected should take a look at executive orders. Paul will end the war on drugs and free all non violent drug offenders from prison.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: BobTheFreemason]
#15813944 - 02/15/12 01:58 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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He can't. Almost all drug violations are prosecuted at the state level and he is a big states' rights guy. So no, he most certainly wouldn't end it. The people don't want it ended, either.
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Led Zeppelin
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: zappaisgod]
#15815539 - 02/15/12 07:10 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
That is almost entirely prosecuted at the state level and he is a huge states' rights guy.
are you kidding me? you think the Federal Gov hasn't gotten involved in the drug war? pretty sure RP could do a way with the DEA i dont really know though. the point is, having a president that is on the side of the people will still help even if the rest of the gov. isn't on the side of the people. its a start.
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johnm214
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: Seuss]
#15816647 - 02/15/12 11:05 PM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Not Quite Social said:
I don't know what incentive or resources states would have to lock up so many non-violent drug offenders with the Fed gov. out of the picture.
Why would you ever think that considering that it is them that imprison most people for drug crimes?
Because the federal government handles the investigative and/or prosecutorial load for many ostensibly state drug crimes, from prosecuting select cases that investigated by the local fuzz to handling the investigation and referring to local authorities for prosecution. With their budget and staff, they do quite a bit more than the proecution figures show.
Further, the states get all sorts of grants and reimbursement packages from the federal government for the sentences they impose, including substnatial help with the cost of incarcerating drug offenders. Further, they recieve equipment, training, overtime pay, and other crap from the feds for fighting the drug war- money that they must claim or forfeit.
The states have been sheltered to some degree from the political realities of the drug war's drain on their budget by paying for a modicum of the cost by federal taxes the average elector won't attribute to his state's costly policies. With the latest fanaticism over "prescription drug abuse" I'm sure this will continue, probably making
Quote:
Seuss said:
Quote:
After he's done milking the Republican contest for what it's worth, hopefully he'll sidestep and become an independent candidate- if he doesn't, then he's worthless to anyone
You need to study how the party system works, because you are very wrong. He is "worthless to anyone" if he does as you suggest. If he can't even pick up the Republican nomination, then there is no way he will win the Presidency as an independent candidate. However, if he picks up a lot of delegates, even though he does not win the nomination for President, he still gets influence the priorities of the Republican party. This is far from "worthless to anyone" and much more important than a token run at office that will result in nothing.
Why would a "token run" result in nothing? You don't have to win elections to influence policy, and allready there have been Presidential elections that just the libertarian vote would have swung the other way. With the number of libertarian voters alone rising to 3% for some elections in my state with both main party candidates represented, the potential for swinging an election is becoming more and more signifigant.
As such, the third party voters become an available block with clear issues preventing them from choosing a main party candidate. When elections start going to the least popular of the major party candidates, that's when you'll see real reform in the way the elections and debates are administered.
Even without reform, a candidate in a tight race knows the majority of major-party voters will not vote for another party's candidates in any liklihood, but that he could nab a crucial couple percentage points by compromising on his platform to include some libertarian positions, for example- with little downside.
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BobTheFreemason
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Re: Anyone paying attention to the Maine Caucus? [Re: johnm214]
#15816896 - 02/16/12 12:28 AM (3 months, 11 days ago) |
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Ron Paul can absolutely end the war on drugs. Legalize them on a federal level and watch states like california BOOM. Other states will either fall in line or decay. Or perhaps just become a mecca for idiots.. either way this will effectively end the war on drugs for anyone who wants it so.
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