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 GuruBushHippie
MountainMan
Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 1,968
Last seen: 3 days, 9 hours
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 False Belief
#15792324 - 02/11/12 10:53 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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I'm discussing belief in god(s) with a friend. He claims that because i'm an atheist now, that means I never truly believed in god, that that was a false belief. I disagree strongly. Opinions on this?
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"I am enjoying existence as much as ever, and regret nothing." -H. D. Thoreau
"Place yourself in the middle of the stream of power and wisdom which animates all whom it floats, and you are without effort impelled to truth, to right and a perfect contentment." -R. W. Emerson
"I was right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo, and somebody was giving booze to these goddamn things. Won't be long now before they tear us to shreds." -H. S. Thompson
  
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 Gratos
Just thinkin anddrinkin
Registered: 08/21/05
Posts: 1,272
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Whats he trying to say, need more information.
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
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Why disagree strongly? If you don't believe in God now then you obviously weren't believing in something real then, right?
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cbub
thread killer
Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 769
Last seen: 8 hours, 9 minutes
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I somehow get what you're saying and believe you're right.
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Jessica Swift
यन्त्र
Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 1,723
Loc: 
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Re: False Belief [Re: cbub]
#15792410 - 02/11/12 11:17 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Beliefs change. Whoever said they rest in concrete never understood the nature of belief.
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GuruBushHippie
MountainMan
Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 1,968
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Re: False Belief [Re: Kickle]
#15792437 - 02/11/12 11:23 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Gratos said:
Whats he trying to say, need more information.
Well the argument is in regards to the effect of religious belief on sleep paralysis. I told him that I had it when i believed in God, and I have it now as an atheist. He claims that if i'm an theist now then i never truly believed in God to begin with, but I definitely did. He compared it to believing that 1+1=2, but changing your mind the next day and no longer believing it (a very invalid argument, but that's what he said)
Quote:
Kickle said:
Why disagree strongly? If you don't believe in God now then you obviously weren't believing in something real then, right?
I disagree strongly, because even though I no longer believe, losing faith was actually a struggle for me because I truly did believe.
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"I am enjoying existence as much as ever, and regret nothing." -H. D. Thoreau
"Place yourself in the middle of the stream of power and wisdom which animates all whom it floats, and you are without effort impelled to truth, to right and a perfect contentment." -R. W. Emerson
"I was right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo, and somebody was giving booze to these goddamn things. Won't be long now before they tear us to shreds." -H. S. Thompson
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cbub
thread killer
Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 769
Last seen: 8 hours, 9 minutes
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Good point. It may be just your friend's ego at work. Defending it's own belief and showing misappreciation for yours.
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
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Re: False Belief [Re: cbub]
#15792460 - 02/11/12 11:27 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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I disagree strongly, because even though I no longer believe, losing faith was actually a struggle for me because I truly did believe.
And this leads to strong disagreement because you want empathy for the struggle? Or is the struggle still going on?
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GuruBushHippie
MountainMan
Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 1,968
Last seen: 3 days, 9 hours
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Re: False Belief [Re: Kickle]
#15792472 - 02/11/12 11:30 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I disagree strongly, because even though I no longer believe, losing faith was actually a struggle for me because I truly did believe.
And this leads to strong disagreement because you want empathy for the struggle? Or is the struggle still going on?
I don't want empathy for anything. I strongly disagree, because I believed very strongly in God and now I very strongly believe that there is no God. The struggle ended years ago.
--------------------
"I am enjoying existence as much as ever, and regret nothing." -H. D. Thoreau
"Place yourself in the middle of the stream of power and wisdom which animates all whom it floats, and you are without effort impelled to truth, to right and a perfect contentment." -R. W. Emerson
"I was right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo, and somebody was giving booze to these goddamn things. Won't be long now before they tear us to shreds." -H. S. Thompson
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
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I guess I'm confused why this prior struggle is still influencing your responses to this day. Particularly so if it is not ongoing.
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GuruBushHippie
MountainMan
Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 1,968
Last seen: 3 days, 9 hours
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Re: False Belief [Re: Kickle]
#15792500 - 02/11/12 11:36 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I guess I'm confused why this prior struggle is still influencing your responses to this day. Particularly so if it is not ongoing.
It doesn't influence all responses, only ones relevant to the discussion. I'm confused as to what you're trying to find out.
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"I am enjoying existence as much as ever, and regret nothing." -H. D. Thoreau
"Place yourself in the middle of the stream of power and wisdom which animates all whom it floats, and you are without effort impelled to truth, to right and a perfect contentment." -R. W. Emerson
"I was right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo, and somebody was giving booze to these goddamn things. Won't be long now before they tear us to shreds." -H. S. Thompson
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WakeUp
Unknown
Registered: 02/06/12
Posts: 31
Last seen: 3 months, 16 days
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What do you mean by God? Do you believe in eternity, the impossible, fate having your back? Were you happier then or now? And what was the reason you stopped believing in any sort of God/s?
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Jessica Swift
यन्त्र
Registered: 01/13/12
Posts: 1,723
Loc:
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Re: False Belief [Re: WakeUp] 2
#15792554 - 02/11/12 11:46 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
WakeUp said:
What do you mean by God?
Question of the millennium, my boy. 
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
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I'm trying to see from your point of view. Because when you first posted this I couldn't see the issue. You stated you don't believe in God and so to my mind anything said about God should be pretty meaningless. So when you disagreed, I figured that it wasn't what was said about God but what was said about you. And from there I wondered why. I wonder what relevance an examination of who you were has to who you are now.
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GuruBushHippie
MountainMan
Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 1,968
Last seen: 3 days, 9 hours
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Re: False Belief [Re: WakeUp]
#15792612 - 02/11/12 12:01 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
WakeUp said:
What do you mean by God? Do you believe in eternity, the impossible, fate having your back? Were you happier then or now? And what was the reason you stopped believing in any sort of God/s?
I meant the Christian concept of God, the one I believed in. I am tons happier now. A total weight lifted. Psychedelics had a lot to do with my loss of faith, but there were other personal issues that contributed as well. One of those being logic. Religion and the idea of intelligent or divine higher powers just kinda quit making sense.
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"I am enjoying existence as much as ever, and regret nothing." -H. D. Thoreau
"Place yourself in the middle of the stream of power and wisdom which animates all whom it floats, and you are without effort impelled to truth, to right and a perfect contentment." -R. W. Emerson
"I was right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo, and somebody was giving booze to these goddamn things. Won't be long now before they tear us to shreds." -H. S. Thompson
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WakeUp
Unknown
Registered: 02/06/12
Posts: 31
Last seen: 3 months, 16 days
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Yes, well no surprise there, the Christian concept of anything is mostly fallible human interpretation. They try to make the inner all outer and mix things up a bit. The outer is only a symbol of the inner.
---Religion and the idea of intelligent or divine higher powers just kinda quit making sense.
I wonder what psychedelics you've taken? Because with some it becomes evident that the plant has a consciousness of its own and interacts with the taker of them.
Ime your mind co-creates your reality, and the best I've come up with is either there is a God inside and outside of me always, or I created God with his great powers, either way my experiences consist of the impossible. Look at the way your feelings attract more feelings and situations of the same kind in your life, if you find that they do then believing in a higher power that has your back and gives you gifts and wonders may have a surprising effect. In either case, God is good and will steer you where you need to go.
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