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 Breadnbutterfly86
Religion limits human potential
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 840
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 nature; the life, the killer
#15791731 - 02/11/12 07:18 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Nature is the ulitmate killer. Therefore, life works against nature in order to survive. There are the elements that work together to create life and allow survival; however, there are other elements that work against the surviving organism that force it to adapt in order to survive, or else it dies.... Is nature more the life or the killer?
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"Don't just do something, stand there!" -Mr. Rabbit-
Breadnbutterfly
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
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imo nature doesn't exist as most people see it ie. a balanced system. nature is the meaning of the phrase " i don't give a fuck".
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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Breadnbutterfly86
Religion limits human potential
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 840
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 23 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: nature; the life, the killer [Re: blingbling]
#15791765 - 02/11/12 07:30 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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i'm not trying to say it is balanced...
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"Don't just do something, stand there!" -Mr. Rabbit-
Breadnbutterfly
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
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i wasn't implying that you were. i was just offering my opinion. but i think you are getting at the root of nature with the whole elements that work together to create life and allow survival; however, there are other elements that work against the surviving organism thing. imo the next step is to find that you are outside of nature... in a figurative sense, but still caught up in nature as an animal. that's the paradox. we can imagine the most fantastic ideas but we remain animals. if you can imbibe this idea then imo you have come a long way in figuring out why people are the way they are.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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Breadnbutterfly86
Religion limits human potential
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 840
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 23 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: nature; the life, the killer [Re: blingbling]
#15791793 - 02/11/12 07:47 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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an example of what i'm trying to say is a chamelion changing colors for protection. dinosaurs with plates around their necks. birds, wings. skunk can spray.... before the spear humans were most likely getting eaten by animals like crazy. humans eventually carved a stick and made it to the top of the food chain. humans as in animals... (for another topic this is where "pride" came from as well... getting to the top of the food chain)... but minus in inevitablity of death itself, nature tries to kill and we (organisms, not only humans) adapt in order to survive. so is nature life or is nature a killer? both... but which makes more sense?
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"Don't just do something, stand there!" -Mr. Rabbit-
Breadnbutterfly
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
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nature is neither. as soon as you try to pin it down it doesn't make sense. that is why i believe nature doesn't exist.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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Breadnbutterfly86
Religion limits human potential
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 840
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 23 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: nature; the life, the killer [Re: blingbling]
#15791802 - 02/11/12 07:52 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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then can i ask what you would "call" it?
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"Don't just do something, stand there!" -Mr. Rabbit-
Breadnbutterfly
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: nature; the life, the killer [Re: blingbling]
#15791807 - 02/11/12 07:53 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
blingbling said:
nature is neither. as soon as you try to pin it down it doesn't make sense. that is why i believe nature doesn't exist.
Sure, change the definition of the word enough to then say it doesn't exist. It's not really an accomplishment.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 1,389
Last seen: 1 day, 57 minutes
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lots of people around here call nature everything, which really means nothing. i'm not coming from some solipsist stance and proclaiming " we can never know the true nature of reality". i'm simply saying the concept of nature as most people see it ie. trees and shit, is exactly not what nature is not.
Quote:
Breadnbutterfly86 said:
then can i ask what you would "call" it?
i don't know. i don't think we need to call it anything, and that's not some sly metaphysical pun. it really is just a misuse of language.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 23,674
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 10 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: nature; the life, the killer [Re: blingbling]
#15791892 - 02/11/12 08:31 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
blingbling said:
lots of people around here call nature everything, which really means nothing. i'm not coming from some solipsist stance and proclaiming " we can never know the true nature of reality". i'm simply saying the concept of nature as most people see it ie. trees and shit, is exactly not what nature is not.
Have fun arguing with the dictionary. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 1,389
Last seen: 1 day, 57 minutes
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the real lack of accomplishment is the one who argues for the dictionary rather than providing a counter point.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
Edited by blingbling (02/11/12 08:37 AM)
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
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Re: nature; the life, the killer [Re: blingbling] 1
#15791938 - 02/11/12 08:44 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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A counter point to what, exactly? The idea that the common definition of a word isn't what the word actually is? 
The word refers to material existence and it's elements, typically in reference to the parts independent of human existence. You're clearly referring to something else - so create your own word for it. The word nature is a perfectly good word that means specifically what it is intended to mean. 
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 1,389
Last seen: 1 day, 57 minutes
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The word refers to material existence and it's elements, typically in reference to the parts independent of human existence.
that's sounds like a reasonable definition. what i'm arguing against is the concept of nature which exists outside of your definition.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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fireworks_god
SexyButt McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 23,674
Loc: Red Panda Village
Last seen: 10 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: nature; the life, the killer [Re: blingbling]
#15791982 - 02/11/12 08:59 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Never heard of such a concept before.  Seems like someone hijacked the word. 
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 1,389
Last seen: 1 day, 57 minutes
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yep, that's what i meant by misuse of language. nature is not meaningful in the ways people want it to be.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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Breadnbutterfly86
Religion limits human potential
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 840
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 23 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: nature; the life, the killer [Re: blingbling]
#15808545 - 02/14/12 01:55 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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therefore, is it more responsible for life or killing? or equal?
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"Don't just do something, stand there!" -Mr. Rabbit-
Breadnbutterfly
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 Rahz
Dead Gone Forgotten
Registered: 11/10/05
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As it has gone, death is necessitated by life. Some forms last longer than others, but all forms dissolve. Everything you are, everything you see and touch will change forms and eventually be radiated into space. You can say life and death are equalizers, but it's worth considering that death is but the waining of a piece of the whole that never really dies. If you try to look at things on the ultimate level there is no room for bias or personal consideration. The potential for all possible life lies within the apparent nothingness of reality. We are but one of the many momentary voices reality expresses throughout eternity.
This seems to be plainly true.
It does not mean there is a 'God', but it seems to be the observational basis from which the idea of God springs. As we allow the voices to die as they leave our breath, so to does that leave our bodies behind.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 1,389
Last seen: 1 day, 57 minutes
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Quote:
Breadnbutterfly86 said:
therefore, is it more responsible for life or killing? or equal?
imo nature is just matter moving around. for nature life and death are irrelevant.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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Jwlst
Stranger
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Re: nature; the life, the killer [Re: blingbling]
#15810307 - 02/14/12 07:23 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
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I am not sure I agree with you here, nature is not the killer.
Nature is simply a system comprising of billions of different organisms, in which these organisms all compete with each other to try and dominate as much of 'nature' as possible.
Therefore nature sets the stage for the blood bath, but it is the opposing organisms who actually do the killing in order to control nature.
The important thing to remember is that we did alot of killing to take control of nature, it took a whole lot of blood, sweat and tears to wipe out the majority of our natural predators and despite what a bunch of misguided hippies think the other contestants haven't given up yet, they are just waiting for humans to have a moment of weakness before they strike back.
Edited by Jwlst (02/14/12 07:29 PM)
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
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Re: nature; the life, the killer [Re: Jwlst]
#15810727 - 02/14/12 08:36 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Nature is simply a system comprising of billions of different organisms, in which these organisms all compete with each other to try and dominate as much of 'nature' as possible.
nature is more than organisms.
The important thing to remember is that we did alot of killing to take control of nature
we are nature. we are not in control of nature. nature is in control of us. the nature your describing doesn't exist.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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Jwlst
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Re: nature; the life, the killer [Re: blingbling]
#15810826 - 02/14/12 08:52 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
blingbling said:
Nature is simply a system comprising of billions of different organisms, in which these organisms all compete with each other to try and dominate as much of 'nature' as possible.
nature is more than organisms.
True I guess, if you include rocks, dirt and water as a part of nature.
The important thing to remember is that we did alot of killing to take control of nature
Quote:
blingbling said:
we are nature. we are not in control of nature. nature is in control of us. the nature your describing doesn't exist
First of all, you're not your in that sentence.
I never said we are not nature, clearly we are a living organism and therefore a part of nature. To an extent we certainly do control nature, if we wanted we could easily wipe out almost any species if we so desired (bar those pesky insects/bacteria), or could even change the whole worlds atmosphere if we decided to let all our nukes go off at once.
While most people over estimate the strength of humans and their domination on nature, I think you are under estimating it. I get where you're coming from, saying humans are a part of nature therefore cannot control it, but I don't think being part of something and controlling it are mutually exclusive terms. For example, I assume you can control yourself, yet you are a part of yourself, are you not?
Nature is inanimate, thoughtless, neither good nor evil and exerts no control at all. It is the organisms within the system of nature that exert the control.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
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Re: nature; the life, the killer [Re: Jwlst]
#15811377 - 02/14/12 10:46 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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if we wanted we could easily wipe out almost any species if we so desired (bar those pesky insects/bacteria), or could even change the whole worlds atmosphere if we decided to let all our nukes go off at once.
again, nature is more than organisms and also more than our planet.
I assume you can control yourself, yet you are a part of yourself, are you not?
how do we know that we are controlling ourselves? it's quite possible that our actions are determined by forces beyond our control.
Nature is inanimate, thoughtless, neither good nor evil and exerts no control at all.
this doesn't make sense because we are apart of nature, we have thoughts and we are animate objects.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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Jwlst
Stranger
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Re: nature; the life, the killer [Re: blingbling]
#15814423 - 02/15/12 03:54 PM (3 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
blingbling said:
if we wanted we could easily wipe out almost any species if we so desired (bar those pesky insects/bacteria), or could even change the whole worlds atmosphere if we decided to let all our nukes go off at once.
again, nature is more than organisms and also more than our planet.
I assume you can control yourself, yet you are a part of yourself, are you not?
how do we know that we are controlling ourselves? it's quite possible that our actions are determined by forces beyond our control.
Nature is inanimate, thoughtless, neither good nor evil and exerts no control at all.
this doesn't make sense because we are apart of nature, we have thoughts and we are animate objects.
I wouldn't refer to space as being a part of nature, although maybe your right and it is...?
I am in control of myself. Watch. I'll prove it.
I am going to write a list of barnyard animals:
Chicken
Sheep
Goat
Cow
Seems like I was in control enough to write a list of barnyard animals.
I see your point about not being in control, but that is more suited to a debate on free will I would think.
For the last comment though, yes while we are a part of nature, we are still not literally nature itself, I do not think nature is a sentient being like the organisms that comprise it, therefore it is inanimate. Nature only exists as a symbol of a system of life, I do not believe by itself it is actually self aware.
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