|
 PHi-l
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 12
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
 Cyclical Automated Growth System
#15789235 - 02/10/12 03:40 PM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
|
|
Mushroom, like most organisms, is naturally a part of a densely interconnected network of cooperative relationships, self-regulating feedback cycles, with an unique and particular role in within a given ecosystem.
Based on these premises, I propose the idea of creating an automated system that in effect "mimics" the ecosystem in which the mushroom thrives in. The implication of such a system are obvious; continual growth, rapid development of certain compounds, and of course automation.
Critical goals include:
-identifying the environment and environmental parameters for optimal production
-materials to facilitate the interaction of mycelium with delivery of nutrients and respiration
-exactly what these nutrients are in their most basic form and in their respective ratios for a given species
So, basically a mycological bio-reactor.
This post is mainly an insight for me into what to expect and potential challenges that may arise.
PLEASE if what you say has to go something like:
"What the hell for? I've been growing mine on shit for years and that has to be the best way of doing it"
OR
"It's never going to work"
Don't pollute the thread! I understand why you would say that and that is not the point of this endeavor. The point is to do something that's not been done before, and in the process discover natures hidden secrets.
Any CONSTRUCTIVE insight is appreciated.
Edited by PHi-l (02/10/12 03:43 PM)
|
acidblue
when soundbecomes colour
Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 87
Last seen: 3 months, 16 days
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l]
#15790849 - 02/10/12 11:07 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
Sounds good, I'll be brainstorming and I will post when I have an idea.
|
mikesethnobotany
Future D.O.
Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 1,133
Loc: Missouri, USA
Last seen: 2 days, 21 hours
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: acidblue]
#15790933 - 02/10/12 11:46 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
Im not sure if you're wanting to actually fruit mushrooms in a type of contained ecosystem
like those we may someday implement on mars, with soil, plants, animals, etc., or if you're just wanting to grow mycelium in fermenting chambers?
There are many variables which you simply cannot mimic in a metal vat of liquid for one.
The other hard part is experimenting on one variable at a time, since there are hundreds of
potential variables that can promote mycelial or mushroom growth; Thats not even to
mention that combining all of these variables may prove to have different "bests" than if
you ran experiments on them singled out, much like the saying that the sum is better than the individual parts. Off the top of my head for variables you will need to work with, you've
got:
Light Intensity**
Light Wavelength**
CO2 Levels**
O2 Levels**
Water in substrate
Micronutrients
Macronutrients
pH of substrate**
Temperature**
Relative Humidity **
Species of Wood or type of soil
Casing material?
Aeration of Substrate
Plants that live in symbiosis
Bacteria living in symbiosis
Physical Shock or Stimulus (thunder, rain, tree breaking, for morels it is thought that excess heat from forest fires may stimulate fruit body formation)
** Variables which are fluctuated in professional cultivation of mushrooms to stimulate
natural conditions for pinning and fruit body formation. More experiments necessary to
figure out which fluctuations work best.
As you can see, even with this small list of factors which is incomparable in relation to the
stupendous amount of variables found in the perfect environment mother nature provides,
you are going to spend a lifetime of research to discover merely half of the variables
needed for "optimum" production.
--------------------
TRADE LIST
CULTIVATION GUIDES
"What would you choose Dean, Peace or Freedom?"
- Supernatural
|
Mycelio
Stranger
Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Berlin 
Last seen: 3 hours, 3 minutes
|
|
I think this is already in use for quite a while. There have been thorough studies for the common medical species, regarding optimum nutrients, PH, temperature, etc. vs. maximum output of bioactive substances like glucanes or extracellular enzymes. Just do a web search and also look into the production of Quorn.
Carsten
|
PHi-l
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 12
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: Mycelio]
#15792308 - 02/11/12 10:48 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
@mikesethnobotany,
Your initial question is a good one.
As is my understanding, for the species that I will be working with, certain compounds begin forming within the mycelium during the initiation of pins and the fruiting process. This would lead me to believe that a liquid culture fermentation would not yield the desired result. However I am not entirely familiar with the metabolic mechanism of the formation of[3-(2-Diethylaminethyl)-1H-4-yl] dihydrogen phosphate within the organism. Some clarification if possible would be nice. Also, I thank you for the list of process variables. This will gives me a good idea of the level of hardware and programming required and a good basis for further researching.
And as for creating a system for NASA, hmmm, $$$
@Mycelio
Quorn is based on the mirofungus Fusarium venenatum. A microfungus does not have a multicellular fruiting body, which would further reinforce the conclusion that a liquid culture fermentation process would not work with a fruiting species. Also, could you reference me to those studies you mentioned.
Edited by PHi-l (02/11/12 10:56 AM)
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 37,009
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 4 hours, 59 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l] 1
#15792434 - 02/11/12 11:23 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
PHi-l said:
Based on these premises, I propose the idea of creating an automated system that in effect "mimics" the ecosystem in which the mushroom thrives in. The implication of such a system are obvious; continual growth, rapid development of certain compounds, and of course automation.
If you do that, you'll get a bag of mushrooms from 20 acres or so of real estate, just like in the wild. We don't mimick the natural environment to grow mushrooms because artificial sterile culture has been developed to the point where we can grow 1000 or more times as much product as we'd be able to grow in the same area using natural methods.
We also can't automate delivery of nutrients directly to the mycelium, because mycelium needs to digest solid food. This is why mushrooms don't grow hydroponically. Therefore we need to make solid food available to the mycelium which has the required elements.
RR
--------------------
www.mushroomvideos.com
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
|
PHi-l
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 12
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: RogerRabbit]
#15792734 - 02/11/12 12:30 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
@RogerRabbit,
I can see you are a well respected member of this forum, however I think you missed the point.
When you say "you'll get a bag of mushrooms from 20 acres or so of real estate, just like in the wild"
you must mean that the mushroom is a small part of the total ecosystem. Surely you don't see a 20 acre "mushroom forest". it is in understanding the role of the mushroom in this system that you can optimize its growth in a "synthetic" large output arrangement.
By the way, how do think that artificial sterile culture has been developed to the point where we can grow 1000 or more times as much product?
- through the understanding of natural processes.
I only proposed to further this understanding through the use of technology new materials, ideas, and practices.
Would you know why mushrooms need "solid food" besides the answer of years of observation?
Besides, I think that this falls under:
"What the hell for? I've been growing mine on shit for years and that has to be the best way of doing it"
|
Mycelio
Stranger
Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 1,432
Loc: Berlin
Last seen: 3 hours, 3 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: RogerRabbit]
#15792746 - 02/11/12 12:32 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
PHi-l, do you want to grow Psilocybe cubensis on a conveyor belt? It's hard to understand what you are after.
Carsten
|
RatherBeInTheWoods
Stranger
Registered: 11/11/11
Posts: 98
Loc: Northeast Florida
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: Mycelio]
#15793123 - 02/11/12 02:02 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
I had this same thought on a more basic level. My thinking was using whole grain as a casing layer and letting it grow. The co2 produced from the respiration of the mycelium would be used by the growing seedlings converting it into o2. This would bypass the need for filters and such by being able to have a sealed container thereby reducing the risk of contamination.
The only problem with this would be one how to sterilize the grain/seed without killing it and two the growing seedlings would be using up the nutrients that the mycelium needed for its growth.
I use this process in reef aquariums to some extent.One example would be providing separate tanks connected to the main tank filled with various algae. This tank is on a reverse photo period to provide a way to harvest the nutrients that are produced by the fish,corals,crabs,etc and counter act the build up of co2 not being used by the symbiotic algae within the corals and macro algae in the main tank when lights are off.
This is only one part of a entire system/community of various organisms that are used for one reason or another to provide the balance/stability that the corals need in order to grow.
As RogerRabbit It would be hard to provide the space for all the different organisms that are needed to achieve this balance. Although I think it would def. work and fun to do, your yield would be greatly reduced compared to a closed system.
|
 nooneman
Stranger
Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 2,897
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l]
#15794290 - 02/11/12 06:29 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Based on these premises, I propose the idea of creating an automated system that in effect "mimics" the ecosystem in which the mushroom thrives in. The implication of such a system are obvious; continual growth, rapid development of certain compounds, and of course automation.
Critical goals include:
-identifying the environment and environmental parameters for optimal production
-materials to facilitate the interaction of mycelium with delivery of nutrients and respiration
-exactly what these nutrients are in their most basic form and in their respective ratios for a given species
We've already done all of this.
It seems like you don't understand that the current techniques are optimal. It's not just randomly "growing in shit." Everything that's done in modern cultivation is done for a reason. It's not like people are just randomly loading jars with BRF. Lots of people have tried lots of ingredients and use BRF for a reason. For example, BRF isn't as good as rye berries, but to sterlize rye berries you've got to either use a pressure cooker, or boil for 8 hours instead of 90 minutes. Current technique is already optimal, that's why people use it, and that's why it was invented in the first place.
An SGFC is an engineered environment that provides optimal amounts of humidity, FAE, and light. An SGFC (or monotub for that matter) with a light on a timer, and a spray bottle on a timer, and a fan on a timer is probably about the most automated it can get.
Edited by nooneman (02/11/12 06:30 PM)
|
PHi-l
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 12
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: nooneman]
#15794692 - 02/11/12 07:42 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
@RatherBeInTheWoods,
You have the right idea, but I'm going for synthetic symbiosis. interfacing the biological organism with man made materials and machine.
I realize that I will never emulate nature in its entirety,and reach "optimum"conditions, but I may be able to get pretty damn close. And if I do not succeed, the wealth of knowledge gained will be high above what anyone else can conceive.
@Mycelio,
A conveyor belt is linear, precisely what the current technique is, and not what the idea is. the idea is what I said above.
It seems like the only one who even know what I'm trying to do is mikesethnobotany. And his insight is well worth noting.
Although this will take considerable time, I do not believe that there are an infinite amount of variables to be controlled. I will start with the most critical for life and work from there. the goal is to try and emulate nature, and a deeper understanding of the organism is required.
I am an engineer not a biologist or mycologist and thus need ones expertise. The latter is the reason for joining this forum NOT to be told it can't happen.
to do all the research and work required alone would indeed be insane.
can anyone answer the question of the viability of a liquid culture fermentation of cubensis?
|
mikesethnobotany
Future D.O.
Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 1,133
Loc: Missouri, USA
Last seen: 2 days, 21 hours
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l]
#15794759 - 02/11/12 07:53 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
It seems like the only one who even know what I'm trying to do is mikesethnobotany.
I am still not 100% sure what you are going for, but I think I get the gist. This forum
has tons of information on growing mushrooms and expert cultivators like RR can
provide invaluable knowledge on the subject, but as mycelio has stated, you are going
to need to do research for peer-reviewed scientific articles. If you don't
have a background with biology then you will surely not understand half of the words
or language of those types of papers, which even I (my major is cell and molecular biology)
don't understand some of the language in them. You will be much
better off finding a friend who can aid you for this project and that someone needs to have a strong biology background
IMO. Most genius ideas are highly scrutinized at first so don't give up! Glad I did benefit
you in some way at least.
-Mike
--------------------
TRADE LIST
CULTIVATION GUIDES
"What would you choose Dean, Peace or Freedom?"
- Supernatural
|
PHi-l
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 12
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
|
@mikesethnobotany,
I can assure you I'm no genius, but am glad to hear that there is some faith in the idea. looks like have to approach this in a different manner. thank you.
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 37,009
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 4 hours, 59 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l]
#15795056 - 02/11/12 08:48 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
PHi-l said:
I realize that I will never emulate nature in its entirety,and reach "optimum"conditions, but I may be able to get pretty damn close. And if I do not succeed, the wealth of knowledge gained will be high above what anyone else can conceive.
Don't come in here assuming we're all idiots and you're the only enlightened voice in a circus of fools. You'll be mercilessly flamed for ignorant arrogance and fully deserve it.
RR
--------------------
www.mushroomvideos.com
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
|
PHi-l
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 12
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: RogerRabbit]
#15795291 - 02/11/12 09:37 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
|
|
Your right RR, that was a poor choice in words.
I came here assuming you were all experts and would offer some kind advice, guidance, insight, (be what you call it) toward what I am trying to accomplish.
If you believe that the quest for knowledge and truth deserves reprimand, flame on old man.
|
 pseudotsuga
brother
Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 165
Loc: usa
Last seen: 2 minutes, 50 seconds
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l]
#15797256 - 02/12/12 11:04 AM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
|
|
RR is very much an expert and gave his expert advice on the topic, though he may not have addressed what it is you are really wanting to be answered. His point being that nature can't produce more mushrooms per sq ft than what a cultivator can do in lab set up, so why would you want mimic nature? especially given that trying to replicate the infinite nuances a natural environment is more difficult than mushroom cultivation needs to be.
To really help you get at the environmental factors you should be focusing on, you should at least give us some species you are thinking of working with as all the things you posted on you list of critical goals is largely dependent on which species it is.
Are you looking to be able to throw growing substrate and spores in sterile metal chamber and then after a month or two you open it to find fully formed mushrooms? What specifically do you mean by cyclical automation?
Are you wanting to make an industrial automated grow or something for personal use?
IMO, this sounds like a complicated and expensive way to try and produces mushrooms. good luck trying to prove people wrong!
--------------------
"Best to be like water,
which benefits the ten thousand things
and does not contend.
it pools where humans disdain to dwell,
close to the Tao."
Tao Te Ching
|
PHi-l
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 12
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: pseudotsuga]
#15797505 - 02/12/12 12:00 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
|
|
@pseudotsuga,
Quote:
To really help you get at the environmental factors you should be focusing on, you should at least give us some species you are thinking of working with as all the things you posted on you list of critical goals is largely dependent on which species it is.
This is a good question because the only species I have worked with is Psilocybe cubensis and would logically start there. As for finding a species that would best suit the application (accept the artificial system and nutrients that I would "pump"to it), I would have to ask a mycologist.
As for throwing substrate and spores into a metal can and birthing mushrooms. yes that would be the desired result, but less throwing and more careful setup and execution.
perhaps the technology doesn't exist yet to make this a reality:
-my thought of interweaving the mycelia with an array of microfluidic channels to deliver nutrients may be far into the future.
the cyclical automation concept is really simple. currently a substrate is; inoculated, colonized, fruited for a few flushes, then samples are kept for future use of the same process over again. with cyclical automation this would all be done on a continuous cycle within the machine just like in nature.
Expensive? Time consuming? anything worthwhile always is
its really just a proof of concept not an industrial production. could it be applied to industrial production? possibly. the technology can also be applied (as previously mentioned) to producing a stable food supply for astronauts.
I see the organism as an atomic machine that can be interfaced with manmade machines
maybe im oversimplifying the complex biological processes to the point where I can see this working but again, im an engineer not a biologist I can say that I know next to nothing about these systems.
The questions are:
Will liquid culture fermentation work to produce compound for a fruiting species?
What species should I investigate to suit the application?
what exactly happens on the cellular level?(the full cycle)
I guess I will have to dedicate weeks of research into the last one
Edited by PHi-l (02/12/12 12:15 PM)
|
Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land
Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 800
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 1 hour, 5 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l]
#15798180 - 02/12/12 02:06 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
|
|
I think you first need to do a literature search and see if this or something like it has already been done. Some of my best ideas have been gotten to first -- sometimes at least 10 years before!
Here's one paper you should probably read:
Mycological culture in microchannels
Bassett, J.; Walker, G.; Beebe, D.
Engineering in Medicine and Biology, 2002. 24th Annual Conference and the Annual Fall Meeting of the Biomedical Engineering Society EMBS/BMES Conference, 2002. Proceedings of the Second Joint.
Abstract
A new method is described for the culture of fungi in static conditions. This system uses microscale structures (e.g. microchannels) as enclosed culture chambers for fungi. Devices are constructed with channels of variable scale to form three dimensional culture containment vessels capable of orientation in any plane. Preliminary results of morphological identification are presented.
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=1137013
I can't download this and look at it because while I'm an IEEE member, I don't have the right set of journal subscriptions. As you probably know, the IEEE has a zoo of different specialized journals, each set with their own costly membership access.
--------------------
Obsessed with edibles all my waking hours.
|
PHi-l
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 12
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: Terry M]
#15798537 - 02/12/12 03:07 PM (3 months, 15 days ago) |
|
|
@Terry M
Great reference. Im working on getting the permissions necessary to read it.
Thank you
|
mycoelf
Agent Of Chaos
Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 491
Loc: hyperspace 
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l]
#15800648 - 02/12/12 09:44 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Mycelium gets old, mushrooms are temporary community's so in the first leg of the race what (I think ) you are proposing is going to have to be fundamentally re structured. Higher mycelium are not yeast, they are not perpetually renewing provided the proper environment etc type of creatures. Cultivation science geared for production IS currently advanced, and honestly if you want to spend a billion dollars in research to discover what growers already know, well I hope it is a good paying gig for you anyway,,,,,
It is called prior art for a reason. The feeling I get here is that you are a collage student, maybe a grad looking for a project. If you take the time and effort to learn prior art, and master every aspect of spawn generation and growing, then perhaps the territory will be mapped well enough for you to consider breaking the rules and re-inventing the wheel.
I don't like the tone that you took with RR. I don't like the tone he took with you, but you deserved a correction for coming off with disrespect. As a young buck I always figured which of the elders that were around were in the "know" and then went and asked, as a student, with the proper humility, because I was the one who was seeking, always quicker to listen then to talk, and always got a more then enthusiastic response because I was respectful and helpful to those teachers who took the time to invest in me. The knowledge on this website is vast, comprehensive, and represents the equivalent in millions of dollars of research, millions of man hours spent teaching, and learning. The teachers here want to teach because they want to pass on what they have learned. You might consider takeing a more respectful and student like tone in your query, and you will find this respect will go a long way.
I don't mean to disparage you, but UTFSE, learn your prior art, get some experience with more than just cubs (which are ironically about the easiest mushrooms to grow on planet earth)and when you have mastery of all these things, then form and present a viable theory, with some real experimental data, and I bet you will get a better response.The human element that is present here on the shroomery is vastly knowledgeable and I am sure is all about something new and or cool, but you got to keep it real, ya know?
--------------------
Mycoelf
I love to trade wedges. Currently looking for a nice brick top and Pleurotus Eunosmus the Tarragon Oyster. I am also getting interested in the agaricus, so if you have a cool agaricus in good genetic condition PM me please
Sterility is a process that can be likened unto infinity, which is a long walk, the closer to the end you start before beginning, the more achievable the goal of infinity becomes. Remember, cleanliness in next to goddessness
    
|
PHi-l
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 12
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: mycoelf]
#15802981 - 02/13/12 12:28 PM (3 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
@mycoelf,
This is good. It is well worth noting your view on the relationship between a teacher and a student. I see so many today that simply demand to be spoonfed knowledge with no respect to whose teaching it.(although considering the price of higher education I can understand why).
As to RR, it would be fitting to apologize, so I do.
Reinventing the wheel? no, I'm simply trying to make it roll smoother.
I just thought that starting this thread would be a good supplement to UTFSE. what, did I expect to just have others tell me what I want to know for nothing?
Clearly, I need to come up with something more concrete that a far out idea that's fuzzy in details and focus into view for everyone.
Thanks for the help and good feedback everyone.
|
TimmiT
Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 2,431
Loc: Victoria 
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l] 1
#15805706 - 02/13/12 08:31 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
|
|
I don't think you're the one who should be apologising... RR was being arrogant and condescending.
Remember that this is a forum of mushroom cultivators not biotechnologists. Growing mushrooms requires a very different set of skills and knowledge than required for biotechnology. That said, there are some members here with an excellent knowledge of fungal biology.
You weren't very clear in your first post and I'm still not entirely sure what you're aim is. Assuming you're talking about creating some kind of bioreactor, the idea is neither ground breaking or novel. I don't know why some people are acting like it is.
Your method is going to vary greatly depending on what you want to achieve and you need to answer a few questions before thinking about the system.
- What do you want to produce? ie biomass, enzymes, metabolites, etc.
- What species would best achieve this?
- What process does the organism use to synthesise the desired product?
- Is the product made by certain structures or cell types (ie primary, secondary or tertiary mycelium)?
- As a response to certain conditions?
- Can this be replicated in an artificial environment /bioreactor?
- Can you up-regulate this process (add precursors, etc)?
- How do you harvest/ isolate the desired product?
Once you have a goal in mind and have thought about the requirements, then you can start to develop a system to achieve this. If you're looking into psilocybin, this paper may be of interest. It's old and probably not entirely relevant but should point you in the right direction.
--------------------
"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon
|
PHi-l
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 12
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: TimmiT]
#15806009 - 02/13/12 09:34 PM (3 months, 13 days ago) |
|
|
@TimmiT,
I thank you.
This is exactly the kind of direction I needed for continued exploration.
And yes, the goal is a type of bio-reactor focusing (for now) on producing metabolites.
thanks
|
Reno_Shroomery
Stranger
Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l]
#15848142 - 02/22/12 03:04 PM (3 months, 5 days ago) |
|
|
I respect what you are going for here. I'm no mycologist, although becoming a fungiculturist is my goal right now. I do think that non-psilocybe species would behoove what I perceive to be your goal here. Take a look at agaricus bisporus - the life cycle has three stages, developed over thousands of generations living alongside humans using compost heaps - 1 it colonizes highly nutritive substrate 2 that substrate is buried by farmers underground, where the fungus sends out less dense groups of hyphae into the surrounding soil, creating a large network with which it can gather nutrients not present in the first substrate, and also through which it gathers water. 3 it then forms rhizomorphs near the surface of the soil through which the entire organism conspires to sprout fruiting bodies when conditions are right. This network of hyphae may accept more readily your liquid food, and will easily spread out through a media of pure vermiculite from a conventional fungus cake colonized on rice flour and celery blended in your osterizer for this purpose. I'm currently experimenting with this idea of "mycoponics" myself, hoping it will one day be useful in commercial cultivation of the species boletus edulis, which so far has been made to substitute its natural symbiotic relationship with a tree's root system for a symbiotic relationship formed with a machine in a lab, deemed a "false root" and has been sustained by this relationship, however it hasn't yet been made to fruit... This is the height of our current science of fungiculture, and people like you and me don't necessarily need to become mycologists to be successful fungiculturists. Of course this by no means discounts the value I place on the knowledge and experience the experts on this forum have. I hope this is what you meant as what you are looking for here; the domestication of as-yet uncultivated species of mushrooms through artificial simulation of symbiotic relationships and other phenomena found in nature.
I joined this forum in hopes the knowledge and experience of the members here can help my novice experiments to develop into true science which may eventually lead me to my holy grail: commercial cultivation of the french truffle through false symbiosis! I'm starting small with experiments on agaricus bisporus, and if you would care to join my efforts here please do, so we can compare notes.
And please, mycologists! If I am entertaining false notions here please disillusion me before i'm too invested to listen! Any and all advice here will be gratefully accepted!
|
urbanfarmer
l'estranger
Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 602
Last seen: 6 hours, 11 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l] 2
#15850151 - 02/22/12 09:35 PM (3 months, 4 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
PHi-l said:
Your right RR, that was a poor choice in words.
I came here assuming you were all experts and would offer some kind advice, guidance, insight, (be what you call it) toward what I am trying to accomplish.
If you believe that the quest for knowledge and truth deserves reprimand, flame on old man.
Every few weeks we see a new kid come around, ranting about some new system that they are going to create and thereby upend current tech and change the world in ways "high above what anyone else can conceive." They insult their elders out one side of their mouth and demand the elders solve their problems out of the other.
None of them ever complete their purported system. Most of them can't even lay out a rough design. But thankfully they leave this board.
|
CoolTJ
Info junkie
Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 82
Loc: Norway
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: urbanfarmer] 1
#15856609 - 02/24/12 07:08 AM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Then continue to use your poor preforming shootgun fc and monotub and let this guy alone 
--------------------
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 37,009
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 4 hours, 59 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: CoolTJ] 1
#15856764 - 02/24/12 08:12 AM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
CoolTJ said:
Then continue to use your poor preforming shootgun fc and monotub and let this guy alone
This post reminds me of what's wrong with kids today. Parents no longer 'parent' with good, sound advice because it might hurt their kids self esteem to think their idea had been thought of before and then have it explained why it doesn't work as a teaching moment.
The result is we have a whole generation of 300 pound 13 year old kids with no social skills besides pushing buttons on the computers or Ipads their parents bought them, even though they did nothing to earn it. In an earlier time, parents actually counseled kids, and if they wanted something, they were told to mow the lawn, wash the dishes, do the laundry, and then they'd get a reward. Absent having to learn and work for what they receive, the result is what we see today. It's a sad statement on our future. You can't do calculus and trigonometry before you learn basic arithmetic.
RR
--------------------
www.mushroomvideos.com
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
|
CoolTJ
Info junkie
Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 82
Loc: Norway
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: RogerRabbit]
#15856814 - 02/24/12 08:29 AM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Sometimes I log in to the shroomery just to get a good laugh 
--------------------
|
Terry M
Stranger in a Strange Land
Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 800
Loc: Rhode Island
Last seen: 1 hour, 5 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: RogerRabbit]
#15857002 - 02/24/12 09:31 AM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
You can't do calculus and trigonometry before you learn basic arithmetic.
RR
Agree 100% RR. At worst, you end up with pseudo-scientists who believe that they are shunned outsiders because their work is too revolutionary, and the "mainstream" cannot accept it. All discovery and advancement is built upon what came before. You need to developing the background and skills to fully comprehend the literature, even if you are expert in some other field. You've got to be able to do an extensive literature search and read every last paper until you fully and genuinely understand it.
--------------------
Obsessed with edibles all my waking hours.
|
CoolTJ
Info junkie
Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 82
Loc: Norway
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: Terry M]
#15857485 - 02/24/12 11:45 AM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
|
|
And if you're been growing mushrooms for like 10+ years and still can't
figure out how to build a decent fully automated growing chamber
(micro climate ) then I really feel pity for you!
If you don't get uniform, even pinset all over, even from multispore
then it's something totally wrong with your terrarium!!
As those poor performing shotgun, monotub I was pointing at!
I've seen what a real micro climate can perform. So I am still laughing
Just my 2 cents!
--------------------
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 37,009
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 4 hours, 59 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: CoolTJ]
#15857700 - 02/24/12 12:59 PM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
If you don't get uniform, even pinset all over, even from multispore
then it's something totally wrong with your terrarium!!
Unfortunately, this is incorrect. It's quite common for poor strains to emerge from multispore inoculation. It's rare to get a totally non-fruiting strain that way, but mediocre ones are not unusual at all.
In addition, the fruiting chamber is only a part of the equation, not the whole thing. The care one gives in substrate composition, texture, surface, and moisture control are equally as important as a well-funtioning fruiting area.
RR
--------------------
www.mushroomvideos.com
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
|
CoolTJ
Info junkie
Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 82
Loc: Norway
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: RogerRabbit]
#15858073 - 02/24/12 02:24 PM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Nice to see that you stopped acting like a child.
Still that does not change the fact that I have yet to see this poor
strain emerge from multi spore that you talk about.
I have only seen very uniform and total even pinset all over with my
microclimate, never even had a little abort. Guess I will go on testing
multi spore.
btw:
Funny thing to see that I've been around here longer than you ...
Maybe I got more growing experience that you all together.
--------------------
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 37,009
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 4 hours, 59 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: CoolTJ]
#15858477 - 02/24/12 04:13 PM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Nice to see that you stopped acting like a child
???
Care to explain yourself?
RR
--------------------
www.mushroomvideos.com
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
|
Nobitte
Student
Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 392
Loc: Biosphere
Last seen: 1 hour, 3 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: CoolTJ]
#15859115 - 02/24/12 07:06 PM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
|
|
This thread...
--------------------
First we must learn...
Then... WE CAN TEACH 
|
Amanita virosa
botanist by day
Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 357
Loc: north kakalacky
Last seen: 13 days, 7 hours
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l]
#15859691 - 02/24/12 09:00 PM (3 months, 2 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
PHi-l said:
This is a good question because the only species I have worked with is Psilocybe cubensis
ummm.... I think maybe you have eaten a few too many of them, friend.  cubes have a tendency to make us feel just a wee bit more enlightened than we really are. perhaps a reality check might be in order for ya...
|
Amanita virosa
botanist by day
Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 357
Loc: north kakalacky
Last seen: 13 days, 7 hours
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: CoolTJ]
#15859726 - 02/24/12 09:06 PM (3 months, 2 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
CoolTJ said:
Nice to see that you stopped acting like a child.
Still that does not change the fact that I have yet to see this poor
strain emerge from multi spore that you talk about.
I have only seen very uniform and total even pinset all over with my
microclimate, never even had a little abort. Guess I will go on testing
multi spore.
btw:
Funny thing to see that I've been around here longer than you ...
Maybe I got more growing experience that you all together.
And you, sir, I crown thee MUSHROOM GOD OF THE UNIVERSE; every grow perfect with ZERO aborted pins and one million percent biological efficiency... you could, no doubt suck the shit from your ass into a syringe and grow a picture perfect, gigantic canopy of the most delicious, most potent mushrooms us mere mortals could only dream of... get over yourself dude.
|
fishy1
strangest
Registered: 07/15/04
Posts: 80
Last seen: 11 days, 1 hour
|
|
Call up the Weasel, I bet he can help. LOL
--------------------
Old, but still younger than Ralph.
|
ManicMongrel
Certified Bullsh*tter
Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Across the Atlantic
Last seen: 6 hours, 28 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: fishy1]
#15879957 - 02/29/12 05:45 AM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Every time someone shares an idea that isn't too specified and just want some input and inspiration the discussion derail completely. Even though the tread starter don't exactly claim trying crate a new paradigm shift in mushroom cultivation, it all ends in shit flinging between those who like the conservative approach and those who likes more experimenting.
On the thread topic, I think some more specific cultures of microbes could have potential. Obviously a lot of the reason we pasteurize to keep some of the mold inhibiting bacterias alive, though I believe a lot of bacterias benefit the fungi in digestion as well. For example by metabolizing waste to create better growing conditions, producing amino acids and vitamins from nitrous salts and so on. The bacterias can probably benefit from the fungus by leeching off some of the sugars that are released by the fungis enzymes, having adapted to this they wont attack the fungi by producing inhibitors.
--------------------
- Rules and laws are guidelines, to follow them by definition is equivalent to ignoring responsibility.
- Let me know if anything in my Trade List got your attention!
Edited by ManicMongrel (02/29/12 06:36 AM)
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 37,009
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 4 hours, 59 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: ManicMongrel]
#15880096 - 02/29/12 06:48 AM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Even though the tread starter don't exactly claim trying crate a new paradigm shift in mushroom cultivation, it all ends in shit flinging between those who like the conservative approach and those who likes more experimenting. Sometimes its starting to look more and more like a war between two factions of circle jerkers.
Please do enlighten us. This is a board for experimenters who graciously share what we learn, good or bad. This is a board which rewards diversity of concept and hard work. Those who experiment and learn help those trying to get started.
There's not one single member with any experience who clings to a 'conservative approach'. Members here have literally re-written the book on mushroom cultivation via constant experimenting, sometimes on every grow by doing something different. Such is not conservative, but experimental science in action. Talk comes later when we ask our fellow mycologists to peer review the results of our actual experiments.
What rankles feathers is beginner-noobs who come in and with no experience whatsoever, declare that what they're going to achieve is a "wealth of knowledge gained will be high above what anyone else can conceive." What they should do is turn off the TV, put down the ipad, start growing mushrooms, learn, fail, learn some more, fail some more, and then when they've achieved what is above what "anyone else can conceive" they can teach the rest of us. That's how it works. Talk is cheap, and the shit talkers in this thread have once again shown to be all hat and no cow. Where are their experiments and the results thereof? Where are yours?
Remember, this is the advanced mycology forum. If you'd like to rant about circle jerks or how dumb the rest of us are, you're welcome to post it in the pub or off topic discussion, not here.
RR
--------------------
www.mushroomvideos.com
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
|
Nobitte
Student
Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 392
Loc: Biosphere
Last seen: 1 hour, 3 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: RogerRabbit]
#15880140 - 02/29/12 07:00 AM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
Even though the tread starter don't exactly claim trying crate a new paradigm shift in mushroom cultivation, it all ends in shit flinging between those who like the conservative approach and those who likes more experimenting. Sometimes its starting to look more and more like a war between two factions of circle jerkers.
Please do enlighten us. This is a board for experimenters who graciously share what we learn, good or bad. This is a board which rewards diversity of concept and hard work. Those who experiment and learn help those trying to get started.
There's not one single member with any experience who clings to a 'conservative approach'. Members here have literally re-written the book on mushroom cultivation via constant experimenting, sometimes on every grow by doing something different. Such is not conservative, but experimental science in action. Talk comes later when we ask our fellow mycologists to peer review the results of our actual experiments.
What rankles feathers is beginner-noobs who come in and with no experience whatsoever, declare that what they're going to achieve is a "wealth of knowledge gained will be high above what anyone else can conceive." What they should do is turn off the TV, put down the ipad, start growing mushrooms, learn, fail, learn some more, fail some more, and then when they've achieved what is above what "anyone else can conceive" they can teach the rest of us. That's how it works. Talk is cheap, and the shit talkers in this thread have once again shown to be all hat and no cow. Where are their experiments and the results thereof? Where are yours?
Remember, this is the advanced mycology forum. If you'd like to rant about circle jerks or how dumb the rest of us are, you're welcome to post it in the pub or off topic discussion, not here.
RR
Hear, hear!
--------------------
First we must learn...
Then... WE CAN TEACH
|
mycoelf
Agent Of Chaos
Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 491
Loc: hyperspace
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: Nobitte]
#15880386 - 02/29/12 08:09 AM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Nobitte said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
Even though the tread starter don't exactly claim trying crate a new paradigm shift in mushroom cultivation, it all ends in shit flinging between those who like the conservative approach and those who likes more experimenting. Sometimes its starting to look more and more like a war between two factions of circle jerkers.
Please do enlighten us. This is a board for experimenters who graciously share what we learn, good or bad. This is a board which rewards diversity of concept and hard work. Those who experiment and learn help those trying to get started.
There's not one single member with any experience who clings to a 'conservative approach'. Members here have literally re-written the book on mushroom cultivation via constant experimenting, sometimes on every grow by doing something different. Such is not conservative, but experimental science in action. Talk comes later when we ask our fellow mycologists to peer review the results of our actual experiments.
What rankles feathers is beginner-noobs who come in and with no experience whatsoever, declare that what they're going to achieve is a "wealth of knowledge gained will be high above what anyone else can conceive." What they should do is turn off the TV, put down the ipad, start growing mushrooms, learn, fail, learn some more, fail some more, and then when they've achieved what is above what "anyone else can conceive" they can teach the rest of us. That's how it works. Talk is cheap, and the shit talkers in this thread have once again shown to be all hat and no cow. Where are their experiments and the results thereof? Where are yours?
Remember, this is the advanced mycology forum. If you'd like to rant about circle jerks or how dumb the rest of us are, you're welcome to post it in the pub or off topic discussion, not here.
RR
Hear, hear!
--------------------
Mycoelf
I love to trade wedges. Currently looking for a nice brick top and Pleurotus Eunosmus the Tarragon Oyster. I am also getting interested in the agaricus, so if you have a cool agaricus in good genetic condition PM me please
Sterility is a process that can be likened unto infinity, which is a long walk, the closer to the end you start before beginning, the more achievable the goal of infinity becomes. Remember, cleanliness in next to goddessness
|
PHi-l
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 12
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: mycoelf]
#15880601 - 02/29/12 09:17 AM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Wow
I'm really stunned. A shit talker?
I just had a vision of the ideal synthetic growth environment. THIS WILL TAKE TIME and on top of a load of schoolwork and a job, the going is slow.
If I remember correctly, I came here for advice not making any claims of superiority of any kind.
And by, "wealth of knowledge gained will be high above what anyone else can conceive."
this, as I already said was a poor choice in words.
I merely meant that through research and experimentation toward the ideal vision, I would acquire a wealth of task specific knowledge in the field.
I think you "elders" need to slow down and not make any hasty judgements.
after all I did come here for advice from you.
And as to a shit talker that, as stated, "to be all hat and no cow" sometimes those who don't believe will have to eat that shit.
|
urbanfarmer
l'estranger
Registered: 12/22/08
Posts: 602
Last seen: 6 hours, 11 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l]
#15880639 - 02/29/12 09:26 AM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
PHi-l said:
Wow
I'm really stunned. A shit talker?
Yes. Just stop there and let it sink in.
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 37,009
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 4 hours, 59 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: urbanfarmer]
#15880720 - 02/29/12 09:49 AM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I'm really stunned. A shit talker?
That wasn't aimed at you.
If anyone has anything constructive to add related to the original topic, feel free to contribute.
RR
--------------------
www.mushroomvideos.com
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
|
ManicMongrel
Certified Bullsh*tter
Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Across the Atlantic
Last seen: 6 hours, 28 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: RogerRabbit]
#15881043 - 02/29/12 11:23 AM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Please do enlighten us. This is a board for experimenters who graciously share what we learn, good or bad. This is a board which rewards diversity of concept and hard work. Those who experiment and learn help those trying to get started.
There's not one single member with any experience who clings to a 'conservative approach'. Members here have literally re-written the book on mushroom cultivation via constant experimenting, sometimes on every grow by doing something different. Such is not conservative, but experimental science in action. Talk comes later when we ask our fellow mycologists to peer review the results of our actual experiments.
RR
As much as I enjoy (most) of these forums, you dont often see graciously constructive critisism or appriciation of diversity in ideas for that matter. Responses often fall within; not going to work, go with pf-tek, get a pressure cooker and so on. I've learned a lot from these forums myself but the reason I said a lot of people have a conservative approach is because they are overly skeptical without even bother trying to understand what you are actually trying to do, often not even reading the whole post before they reply. They know that pf teks and rye berries are a reliable source of shrooms and are very quick to assume anyone presenting an idea to be a ''beginner-noobs'' who think they have a ungodly knack for cultivating mushrooms. By all means there are lots of people who present poorly thought through ideas with an impressive confidence in their own work but there are also a lot of really bright and inventive minds on these forums. I still find the general wibe to still be a bit too aggressive and pessimistic.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
What rankles feathers is beginner-noobs who come in and with no experience whatsoever, declare that what they're going to achieve is a "wealth of knowledge gained will be high above what anyone else can conceive." What they should do is turn off the TV, put down the ipad, start growing mushrooms, learn, fail, learn some more, fail some more, and then when they've achieved what is above what "anyone else can conceive" they can teach the rest of us. That's how it works. Talk is cheap, and the shit talkers in this thread have once again shown to be all hat and no cow. Where are their experiments and the results thereof? Where are yours?
With the time you spend roaming these forums, I'm surprized you still lit up that easy, if a lot of these beginner-noobs sound so infantile to you, why do even bother replying so agressively? After all, you say they're all kids to you.
Yes I am running my own experiments, fermentation and temperature intervalls for the most part. Trial and error is hard to avoid when half of your experiments involve wild prints.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Remember, this is the advanced mycology forum. If you'd like to rant about circle jerks or how dumb the rest of us are, you're welcome to post it in the pub or off topic discussion, not here
Where did I imply everyone else is stupid? Doesn't sound like it takes much to insult your intelligence or decades of experience, before you start ranting about the virtues of these forums and how impolite the kids are these days.
(and for the record I took away the circle jerking part as I figured the that humor would translate really bad in this forum, even before you replied.)
--------------------
- Rules and laws are guidelines, to follow them by definition is equivalent to ignoring responsibility.
- Let me know if anything in my Trade List got your attention!
|
ManicMongrel
Certified Bullsh*tter
Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 194
Loc: Across the Atlantic
Last seen: 6 hours, 28 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l]
#15881085 - 02/29/12 11:37 AM (2 months, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
PHi-l said:
Wow
I'm really stunned. A shit talker?
I just had a vision of the ideal synthetic growth environment. THIS WILL TAKE TIME and on top of a load of schoolwork and a job, the going is slow.
If I remember correctly, I came here for advice not making any claims of superiority of any kind.
And by, "wealth of knowledge gained will be high above what anyone else can conceive."
this, as I already said was a poor choice in words.
I merely meant that through research and experimentation toward the ideal vision, I would acquire a wealth of task specific knowledge in the field.
I think you "elders" need to slow down and not make any hasty judgements.
after all I did come here for advice from you.
And as to a shit talker that, as stated, "to be all hat and no cow" sometimes those who don't believe will have to eat that shit.
Guess you learned that it doesnt take much to step on anyones toes in this forum, you have to choose your words carefully 
As you know the decomposer organisms are just as symbiotic as other organisms, I think a range of bacterias and protozoa would be necessary for making the system more stable. Keep in mind that less that 1% of microorganisms are cultivatable by agar, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find bacterias that are unable to overrun the whole substrate.
--------------------
- Rules and laws are guidelines, to follow them by definition is equivalent to ignoring responsibility.
- Let me know if anything in my Trade List got your attention!
|
CoolTJ
Info junkie
Registered: 08/15/02
Posts: 82
Loc: Norway
Last seen: 1 day, 10 hours
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: ManicMongrel]
#15884890 - 03/01/12 07:23 AM (2 months, 28 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ManicMongrel said:
Quote:
PHi-l said:
Wow
I'm really stunned. A shit talker?
I just had a vision of the ideal synthetic growth environment. THIS WILL TAKE TIME and on top of a load of schoolwork and a job, the going is slow.
If I remember correctly, I came here for advice not making any claims of superiority of any kind.
And by, "wealth of knowledge gained will be high above what anyone else can conceive."
this, as I already said was a poor choice in words.
I merely meant that through research and experimentation toward the ideal vision, I would acquire a wealth of task specific knowledge in the field.
I think you "elders" need to slow down and not make any hasty judgements.
after all I did come here for advice from you.
And as to a shit talker that, as stated, "to be all hat and no cow" sometimes those who don't believe will have to eat that shit.
Guess you learned that it doesnt take much to step on anyones toes in this forum, you have to choose your words carefully
As you know the decomposer organisms are just as symbiotic as other organisms, I think a range of bacterias and protozoa would be necessary for making the system more stable. Keep in mind that less that 1% of microorganisms are cultivatable by agar, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find bacterias that are unable to overrun the whole substrate.
Quote:
ManicMongrel said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Please do enlighten us. This is a board for experimenters who graciously share what we learn, good or bad. This is a board which rewards diversity of concept and hard work. Those who experiment and learn help those trying to get started.
There's not one single member with any experience who clings to a 'conservative approach'. Members here have literally re-written the book on mushroom cultivation via constant experimenting, sometimes on every grow by doing something different. Such is not conservative, but experimental science in action. Talk comes later when we ask our fellow mycologists to peer review the results of our actual experiments.
RR
As much as I enjoy (most) of these forums, you dont often see graciously constructive critisism or appriciation of diversity in ideas for that matter. Responses often fall within; not going to work, go with pf-tek, get a pressure cooker and so on. I've learned a lot from these forums myself but the reason I said a lot of people have a conservative approach is because they are overly skeptical without even bother trying to understand what you are actually trying to do, often not even reading the whole post before they reply. They know that pf teks and rye berries are a reliable source of shrooms and are very quick to assume anyone presenting an idea to be a ''beginner-noobs'' who think they have a ungodly knack for cultivating mushrooms. By all means there are lots of people who present poorly thought through ideas with an impressive confidence in their own work but there are also a lot of really bright and inventive minds on these forums. I still find the general wibe to still be a bit too aggressive and pessimistic.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
What rankles feathers is beginner-noobs who come in and with no experience whatsoever, declare that what they're going to achieve is a "wealth of knowledge gained will be high above what anyone else can conceive." What they should do is turn off the TV, put down the ipad, start growing mushrooms, learn, fail, learn some more, fail some more, and then when they've achieved what is above what "anyone else can conceive" they can teach the rest of us. That's how it works. Talk is cheap, and the shit talkers in this thread have once again shown to be all hat and no cow. Where are their experiments and the results thereof? Where are yours?
With the time you spend roaming these forums, I'm surprized you still lit up that easy, if a lot of these beginner-noobs sound so infantile to you, why do even bother replying so agressively? After all, you say they're all kids to you.
Yes I am running my own experiments, fermentation and temperature intervalls for the most part. Trial and error is hard to avoid when half of your experiments involve wild prints.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Remember, this is the advanced mycology forum. If you'd like to rant about circle jerks or how dumb the rest of us are, you're welcome to post it in the pub or off topic discussion, not here
Where did I imply everyone else is stupid? Doesn't sound like it takes much to insult your intelligence or decades of experience, before you start ranting about the virtues of these forums and how impolite the kids are these days.
(and for the record I took away the circle jerking part as I figured the that humor would translate really bad in this forum, even before you replied.)
--------------------
|
maug
Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 1,569
Loc: inside you
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: CoolTJ]
#15888440 - 03/01/12 10:17 PM (2 months, 27 days ago) |
|
|
@ op:
If you haven't already, I'd recommend watching RR's DVD called "Let's Grow Mushrooms." 
Get a few bulk grows under your belt first. Automated systems give you consistency. If you make an automated system that fails, it won't be that much of a learning experience. You'll just be left with a system that fails consistently.
Imho there isn't a lot of ecosystem when it comes to cubes. Any ecosystem is really just competition. They like their food dead and well cooked. If you want an ecosystem, make them part of vivarium (low level fish tank). It will only be a novelty grow though. Look up images for vivariums on google if that's what you're thinking of doing. In nature the secondary decomposer dies, and a tertiary decomposer and/or plant takes over. This would be very high maintenance, and you would still need to get a few bulk grows under your belt before attempting it.
--------------------
I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes
Edited by maug (03/01/12 10:49 PM)
|
TootyBooty
Big Noodle.
Registered: 06/03/11
Posts: 548
Loc: United States
Last seen: 4 hours, 5 minutes
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: maug]
#15889551 - 03/02/12 08:08 AM (2 months, 27 days ago) |
|
|
I'm confused.
I guess I don't understand, I get more shrooms from two tiny mono tubs than i could ever find in a huge field, full of shit, on the most humid week, with the most kick ass breeze.
RR pretty much said it, we can provide better growing conditions than nature.
Why not just make a tiny martha or something to experiment with?
--------------------
"how can I speak your language when I don't know my own"
|
Amanita virosa
botanist by day
Registered: 12/04/11
Posts: 357
Loc: north kakalacky
Last seen: 13 days, 7 hours
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: TootyBooty]
#15889945 - 03/02/12 10:08 AM (2 months, 27 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
TootyBooty said:
I'm confused.
I guess I don't understand, I get more shrooms from two tiny mono tubs than i could ever find in a huge field, full of shit, on the most humid week, with the most kick ass breeze.
RR pretty much said it, we can provide better growing conditions than nature.
Yea, its called unintelligent design. We assume that nature always has the best design but that is bunk. An artificial environment (or artificial selection in breeding) is many times more efficient than nature. A good example of unintelligent design is the human heart. The arteries that feed it are far to small, resulting in death when they finally clog. Or how about cellular respiration for that matter, which is only 20% efficient. If I made a motor that was 20 % efficient I would be laughed at, because humans create things more efficiently than nature does. In fact, for every one example of intelligent design you can think of; say the human ear for example, i can give you ten examples of unintelligent design. Bottom line, if you wanna grow lotsa mushrooms, stop trying to mimic nature. Its driven by too many simultaneus forces to be efficient. no shit!!
|
ChromeCrow
one ancient mutha
Registered: 02/21/02
Posts: 1,831
Loc: Hoosier HELL
Last seen: 20 days, 10 hours
|
|
i dont think an automated system as you want it to would ever work in mycology, because there is too many factors that has to use old human knowledge.
you can get different results from strain to strain / and even tray to tray.
as example: you can have two trays of the same strain going, in identical trays, same room /light /temp/etc, but find you have to fan 1 less or maybe mist one a bit more. no "system" will be able to do the hands on, micro adjustments needed for optimal results... JMHO
--------------------
LOOKING FOR:
CORDYCEPS CULTURES( ALL/ANY STRAIN )
Catha edulis Seeds
Heimia Myrtifolia Seeds, Plants, Cuttings
ALWAYS LOOKING FOR INDIAN WARRIOR HERB (Pedicularis densiflora)
CC's Strain List
in my lucid dream it was LEGAL for me to buy, own, and grow Salvia and Peyote.. to bad it was just a dream 
FUCK THE MAN!!!!
|
PHi-l
Stranger
Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 12
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: ChromeCrow]
#15895450 - 03/03/12 03:45 PM (2 months, 26 days ago) |
|
|
Alrighty then,
for the fear of further loosing the focus of this thread any further, I have no comments to some of the crap that was previously stated.
I'm currently researching polymer foams that would act as a substrate and as a nutrient transport medium (by capillarity) which I believe is the key to the system. I will only then post on the findings.
@maug,
I understand that this may be a novelty growth, but a fantastic proof of concept if sucessful. also, consistency is a necessity for a scientific process. by consistently getting an undesired result, the desired information may be deduced.
@ ChromeCrow,
I get what you are saying and balancing the system will be tedious.
but, "micro" adjustments --> "micro" controller
(no pun intended)
Edited by PHi-l (03/03/12 04:11 PM)
|
maug
Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 1,569
Loc: inside you
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l]
#15895812 - 03/03/12 05:19 PM (2 months, 26 days ago) |
|
|
The poof of concept would be showing which components are required for growth. Like a species of yeast, or something. Science doesn't take a "dump everything you can find into the pot and off you go" approach. You have too many unknown variables with this.
When you're starting out, you should not try to be the greatest mushroom grower ever. Start by being a mushroom grower.
--------------------
I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes
Edited by maug (03/03/12 06:08 PM)
|
scarfaceshim
forester
Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 44
Loc: moon
Last seen: 27 days, 10 hours
|
Re: Cyclical Automated Growth System [Re: PHi-l]
#15895818 - 03/03/12 05:21 PM (2 months, 26 days ago) |
|
|
This thread is Fucked! lets try and stay on the topic about how to create an automated system and not talk about my crazy polish friend that thinks hes king of the world.  and yes he does look like bubbles. But there are some very good point like the fact that mycellium does not act like yeast and is not self perpetuating. also GSK you should go to the library and do some homework on what these organisms need exactly because only then will you understand the exact parameters you are trying to achieve. This will be hard especially biologist and ecologists are still studying this shit and some stuff is unknown.
P.S. PHW actully looks more like george castanza ive known the dude for years. so quit being such a pretentious scientist buddy haha jk 
--------------------
"survival is the doorway to the earth, awareness is the doorway to the spirit"-Tom Brown
file:///Users/Jewbius/Documents/don_34f24b_2916456.jpg
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit 
Reply 
