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 Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 19 hours, 48 minutes
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 Cynical
#15785851 - 02/09/12 08:13 PM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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I am so darn cynical. I can't seem to find decency in very many humans. Is it me?
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Hashishins
Mind Manifesting
Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 191
Loc: Psychedelic State 
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle]
#15785871 - 02/09/12 08:18 PM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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no, i have the same prob...
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White Beard
Venerable White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 2,318
Loc: In the forest somewhere.
Last seen: 1 hour, 19 minutes
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle]
#15785876 - 02/09/12 08:19 PM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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Perhaps. I feel the same way. Even though I want the best for everyone, I find other people frustrating and strange, and can't really relate to most people. Don't beat yourself up about it I suppose.
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 Mr Person
Tralfamadorian
Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 91
Loc: Trapped near the inner ci...
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle] 2
#15785987 - 02/09/12 08:52 PM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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I think it's just a sign of the times. For thousands and thousands of years most people lived their whole lives without much changing around them. Since the industrial revolution we have been piling on the societal disruptions one after the other at an exponentially increasing pace. I think people underestimate the long term effects of this disruption and how the dysfunction it breeds can take on a life of its own and pass itself down through the generations.
I think of the Pre-Columbian Americas vs the degenerate Latin America of today as a perfect example. You had a number of thriving and stable cultures that were basically overwhelmed by societal disruption that they couldn't overcome and they still have not recovered hundreds of years of later. Same goes for pretty much all the nations that were colonies under imperialism.
Also elephants. Another social animal with highly developed culture. Their social structures have been so disrupted by poaching and watching their family members die that now you have basically psychotic gangs of juvenile male elephants that go around raping and killing rhinos and other large animals.
I'm no luddite but I think in the march of technological progress we have gotten off track, and the result the lack of common decency you are talking about. I see two alternatives that don't involve destruction of the human race. Either we turn back to humanism and use all that we've learned about the human animal to create decent people with integrity, or we hit a technological singularity where we all become cells in the superorganism and decency isn't required.
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Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.
Edited by Mr Person (02/10/12 12:34 AM)
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quinn
grimly predictable
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 2,605
Loc: (usually) above sea level
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle] 1
#15786530 - 02/09/12 11:19 PM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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frankly Kickle, i am cynical about your cynicism. you dont seem bitter enough 
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a fucked of a fuckedness
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mrspirit2
Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 1,647
Loc:
Last seen: 14 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Cynical [Re: quinn]
#15786556 - 02/09/12 11:27 PM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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How do you label one as decent?
Dress nice?
Respect?
B Cup?
What
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 19 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: Cynical [Re: quinn]
#15786561 - 02/09/12 11:29 PM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
quinn said:
frankly Kickle, i am cynical about your cynicism. you dont seem bitter enough
I'm young, the bitterness will grow.
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quinn
grimly predictable
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 2,605
Loc: (usually) above sea level
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle]
#15786599 - 02/09/12 11:42 PM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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yessss my pretty
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a fucked of a fuckedness
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quinn
grimly predictable
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 2,605
Loc: (usually) above sea level
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Quote:
mrspirit2 said:
How do you label one as decent?
Dress nice?
Respect?
B Cup?
What
What?
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a fucked of a fuckedness
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 19 hours, 48 minutes
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Quote:
mrspirit2 said:
How do you label one as decent?
Dress nice?
Respect?
B Cup?
What
For me personally? By generalizing interactions with the world at large. Are they largely neurotic, upset, unappreciative? Or joyful, wise, and open? To me it isn't decent to bring your problems to the world and not even make an effort to address them. A mix of neurotic but open about those tendencies would be decent IMO.
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mrspirit2
Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 1,647
Loc:
Last seen: 14 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle]
#15786740 - 02/10/12 12:19 AM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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Okay.
Yeah, decent people aren't the largest portion of the populous.
Being cynical is pretty easy, and understandably so.
So what are you going to do about it?
Are you just hoping to find other people who are cynical, like yourself?
Taking the Miriam Webster definition at the lightest, you're distrustful of the motives of other humans.
Yes you are going to find many cynics here, and many elsewhere.
The word cynic is kind of redundant in that it's also self serving.
So what if someone else is interested in their own well being?
Don't they just have a different way of going about it from you?
Who are you to judge their learned actions, behaviors, and misdeeds?
Just sounding off, not intended as an argument or put down.
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dkmonk
Psychonaut Lover
Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 321
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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I feel like I meet a lot of good people, but they are so brainwashed with following the majority that it limits their inner beauty for the fear of being thought of as abnormal.
There own ideas that might be had are not allowed to fully expand, because when an "odd" thought is forming they quickly dismiss it as not good. We are too programmed to go with what everyone else is doing and thinking even though it usually is not beneficial to us.
People are scared of being labeled as not normal, and will do anything to be considered that way. Most of the world pretends to promote new ideas, and free thoughts, but they don't add a disclaimer saying that it must fall in line with what we view as acceptable, and not contradict our other beliefs.
People as individuals are usually pretty good and mean the best, but as a whole we are a very flawed and scary species that is digging its own grave.
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First Grow Golden Teacher Koh Samui - in progress
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15330714
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor
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Re: Cynical [Re: dkmonk]
#15787250 - 02/10/12 03:51 AM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
but they are so brainwashed with following the majority that it limits their inner beauty for the fear of being thought of as abnormal.
Finally we have a genuine Buddha in our midst who has risen above it all; either that or we have our 10,000th 'those people' type thread.
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This is your drain on brugs.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,604
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle]
#15787279 - 02/10/12 04:11 AM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I am so darn cynical. I can't seem to find decency in very many humans. Is it me?
No it's not you, you have likely become cynical due to the fact that you are not as indecent as the mass of humanity and you don't spend all your time lying to yourself about everything to do with yourself.
As far as being a class act, humanity is a failed species imo. Nothing to be done about that. Carry on. The fact that you will die one day is your ace in the hole.
I feel very fortunate to have enough money that I can avoid people most all the time.
See, money can buy happiness.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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dkmonk
Psychonaut Lover
Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 321
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
but they are so brainwashed with following the majority that it limits their inner beauty for the fear of being thought of as abnormal.
Finally we have a genuine Buddha in our midst who has risen above it all; either that or we have our 10,000th 'those people' type thread.
Where did I imply I am Buddha? I don't understand how that statement comes off as me suggesting I am Buddha at all. It is me explaining that pressure to be normal and fit in limit people from doing what they feel is a better decision, and no I don't have an article ready to prove this, and am going by me experiencing this first hand and seeing a lot of other people that were going against their conscious to fit in.
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First Grow Golden Teacher Koh Samui - in progress
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15330714
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,604
Loc: underbelly
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Who are you to judge their learned actions, behaviors, and misdeeds?
Well, he's the "who" that has to deal with people and make sure he's safe from their actions in regards to him and his culture. Each of us is a judge on these issues.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 15 days, 19 hours
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle]
#15787378 - 02/10/12 05:25 AM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I am so darn cynical. I can't seem to find decency in very many humans. Is it me?
Your standards are too high. I don't expect exceptional behavior from people, so with my more realistic standards i don't find it too rare that i interact with people who i find to be decent. As far as people who i have a deep respect for their entire person, no that happens very rarely, but just look at the small things. Or not, i just find high standards to be a recipe for dissapointment.
I always keep in mind that everyone is trying their best to make sense of it all.
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Live your Life! 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,604
Loc: underbelly
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wuss
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 15 days, 19 hours
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Say it to my face! 
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Live your Life!
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White Beard
Venerable White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 2,318
Loc: In the forest somewhere.
Last seen: 1 hour, 19 minutes
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle]
#15787585 - 02/10/12 07:09 AM (3 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
For me personally? By generalizing interactions with the world at large. Are they largely neurotic, upset, unappreciative? Or joyful, wise, and open? To me it isn't decent to bring your problems to the world and not even make an effort to address them. A mix of neurotic but open about those tendencies would be decent IMO.
I can really relate. People always come to me with their problems, I give them a thought out solution, then they say I don't understand them, and they should of just asked someone else. If you just want to complain, go complain at a wall. 
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WakeUp
Unknown
Registered: 02/06/12
Posts: 31
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
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Everyone wants what is best for them, how can someone want what they haven't experienced before without another telling them that it is better? Besides, without a balance there is no world or surprise or excitement, nada. Good n evil, smart n stupid, empty n full, all the opposing forces. Imagine where the laughter would go without people doing stupid things.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,604
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
iThink said:
Say it to my face!
I don't do that sort of thing with psychopaths.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 15 days, 19 hours
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
iThink said:
Say it to my face!
I don't do that sort of thing with psychopaths.
I will torture you as i empathize with your pain. 
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Live your Life!
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,474
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle] 1
#15789248 - 02/10/12 03:44 PM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
I am so darn cynical. I can't seem to find decency in very many humans. Is it me?
Oh probably. A lot of people like to spot injustice and indecency. It's natural but it feels good and is pretty addictive. You can find some indecency in everyone, and if you get off on that, then in no time you have a confirmation bias problem.
Question: have you ever done anything that you might have condemned another person for? Of course you have.
So here's what happens. You spot some indecency in someone, then you probably don't look very carefully for decency in that person anymore, assuming you ever did.
I notice that I find a lot of decency in people I know pretty well, and less in people I don't know very well. If you have a worldview that humans are generally shitty (sounds like you do) then your confirmation bias will find something shitty about everyone pretty early on. Then you don't have to look for decency anymore because it feels like you have them pegged.
It's fair to say, then, that you can expect the human world to look shittier than it really is -- to you, that is, which is good news 
So get to know the shitty people anyway, remember you are one sometimes (from some angles, to some people) and you will see most of the others are less shitty than you thought, I bet.
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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 19 hours, 48 minutes
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Well it was my parents who inspired this post so some of what you are saying goes out the window. The other thing I noticed is that you are talking about looking down on others to feel good about ones self. How can you talk about this tendency and yet not find that a good basis for being cynical?
Being cynical is not a black and white phenomena IME. For the most part I enjoy people and that is because it benefits me more than to not enjoy them. But I remain cynical. Being cynical does not necessarily wipe the ability to enjoy the plus sides of human interaction out. It does however give another side to the coin. Any honest look at humans IMO will reveal what inspires cynacism.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,604
Loc: underbelly
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your standards of decency are really low. 
Haven't seen you posting for awhile. How's tricks?
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 19 hours, 48 minutes
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I feel very fortunate to have enough money that I can avoid people most all the time.
See, money can buy happiness.
I'd be a lot more isolated if I wasn't working that's for sure. Not sure if I'd be happier or not but I suspect so 
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,474
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
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Everything I said is true no matter what your standard.
Things are good. 
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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,474
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle]
#15791574 - 02/11/12 06:05 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Sounds like you had your mind made up before you asked 
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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,604
Loc: underbelly
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Everything I said is true
According to you. 
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 19 hours, 48 minutes
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Quote:
WhiskeyClone said:
Sounds like you had your mind made up before you asked
Certainly I've contemplated what you wrote before. If you don't want to have any further dialogue about it (I asked you some questions) then you haven't given me anything new to work with.
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mrspirit2
Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 1,647
Loc:
Last seen: 14 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle]
#15792034 - 02/11/12 09:14 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Who are you to judge their learned actions, behaviors, and misdeeds?
Well, he's the "who" that has to deal with people and make sure he's safe from their actions in regards to him and his culture. Each of us is a judge on these issues.
Safe from their actions?
Phooey.
Quote:
Kickle said:
I am so darn cynical. I can't seem to find decency in very many humans. Is it me?
Yes it is you.
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Kickle
A Growing Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 11,340
Last seen: 19 hours, 48 minutes
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Cool. Glad you've given this some consideration and can verbalize it well.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,604
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
mrspirit2 said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Who are you to judge their learned actions, behaviors, and misdeeds?
Well, he's the "who" that has to deal with people and make sure he's safe from their actions in regards to him and his culture. Each of us is a judge on these issues.
Safe from their actions?
Phooey.
Quote:
Kickle said:
I am so darn cynical. I can't seem to find decency in very many humans. Is it me?
Yes it is you.
What lame responses. You have said nothing. Buck up and give your reasons or stfu.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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mrspirit2
Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 1,647
Loc:
Last seen: 14 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle]
#15792184 - 02/11/12 10:09 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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mrspirit2
Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 1,647
Loc:
Last seen: 14 hours, 43 minutes
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I am so darn cynical. I can't seem to find decency in very many humans. Is it me?
Quote:
Icelander said:
Well, he's the "who" that has to deal with people and make sure he's safe from their actions in regards to him and his culture. Each of us is a judge on these issues.
Quote:
Icelander said:
What lame responses. You have said nothing. Buck up and give your reasons or stfu.
You have said nothing other than your basis for being cynical is out of fear.
PHOOOOOEY
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,604
Loc: underbelly
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So? All all animals act out of fear to preserve themselves. The animal that cannot learn from experience is going to be gone. This is why many young don't make it into midlife and old age.
--------------------
“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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mrspirit2
Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 1,647
Loc:
Last seen: 14 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Cynical [Re: Kickle]
#15792257 - 02/11/12 10:37 AM (3 months, 16 days ago) |
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What you say is true!
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