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cateyes said:
was there anything in my post you disagreed with bambi? are you going to buy the book and get a feel for where we came from and where we are headed?  i mean, i posted some information for the benefit of you as well as anon #2.  you realize that by admitting you couldn't care less after asking me to provide evidence supporting my argument it doesn't shed any positive light on your argument.  seriously, was there anything you didn't agree with? i mean what is it regarding the derivative markets that doesn't concern you?

K~~~

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Since you obviously pulled a bambi on me and ignored my post, ill post it again so maybe youll read it and actually respond to that instead of all that imaginary stuff. kaythanks

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Bambi said:
How am i mocking myself? haha

I was just asking meams if he was mocking me or if he felt the same way as i did. I dont see how that called for you to come bash me some more, but thanks for my bravery comment

Also, no need to bring my personal finances into this, im perfectly capable of using my own judgement to keep myself afloat, no need for personal attacks or accusations, unless maybe they deal with credentials that make you more believable, but my house and dividends have nothing to do with that :P

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geokills said:
This thread is on the verge of getting closed, if the tone of the conversation doesn't become more useful or informative.

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Bambi said:

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cateyes said:
was there anything in my post you disagreed with bambi? are you going to buy the book and get a feel for where we came from and where we are headed?  i mean, i posted some information for the benefit of you as well as anon #2.  you realize that by admitting you couldn't care less after asking me to provide evidence supporting my argument it doesn't shed any positive light on your argument.  seriously, was there anything you didn't agree with? i mean what is it regarding the derivative markets that doesn't concern you?

K~~~

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Since you obviously pulled a bambi on me and ignored my post, ill post it again so maybe youll read it and actually respond to that instead of all that imaginary stuff. kaythanks

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the impending collapse of the derivative market is not imaginary.  what do you think the entire purpose of "quantitative easing" is? only a douche bag like Bernanke could come up with a name like "quantitative easing" to describe something regarding a possible 600 trillion dollar ponzi scheme the bankers came up with that is finally about to blow.  or was this an existing term in economics as i've already pointed out i'm no expert in the entire field of economics, but there are some real sound principles regarding it.  but when you listen to a Greenspan explain why he did what he did without ever answering the question or a Bernanke who does the same shit on a daily basis one has to ask themselves who in their right mind is actually buying this bullshit?  he's been on c-span quite a bit lately and every single thing he says is fluffy nonsense.  even the congressmen who have been questioning him are saying he isn't answering their questions out right! last week one of them actually said what you just said made no sense Mr Bernake!!!  watch c-span when Bernanke's testimonies are rebroadcasted and you'll get a good feel for just how much full of shit he is.... 

i'm sorry if it seemed or i became personal but if you read your original posts you'd see you said things that just aren't true and then basically criticized me and my view of the big picture.  i'm sorry things degraded to the point they did and i apologize for my role in the conversation...  i'm actually hanging here on this server because this community is pretty important to me as psilocybin is very important to me.  i try to go out of my way to help others but it's clear when it comes to topics like politics and economics my views are not well received and i'm really sorry for this because everything i'm saying is all based on unbiased fact..  every single penalty point against me has been in politics...  i picked up 3 points against me for merely saying something like "it sounds like it runs in the family"  after some dude said his father was "a miserable old man and all alone"!!!!  i don't even go there any longer after everything i put out there is ignored due to an inability to prove my points are wrong.  i asked them to read the book in my last wall of text.  i'm asking you once again to consider it and we can debate from that point on but i suspect after you get done reading it i'll have an ally in you.  all of it comes from incredibly credible sources, the people who did these things or people who were directly involved in the decisions...  the book is basically a long series of intimate interviews... 

i have never relied on the information you receive from mass media as our media has learned real lessons from the Germans on how to manufacture consent.  why has the main mass media completely ignored the fact that the Bloomberg investigative team discovered the real cost of the bail outs was 12.8 trillion dollars?  how much of a lie could this be if it working it's way all the way up to the supreme court?  what will the press say when it is in front of the supreme court?  the facts in this case are so painfully clear that multiple federal judges have already ruled in Bloomberg favor every single time...  the evidence is obviously there for this to happen and the supreme court has over ruled the lower courts many times before but how in gods name are they going to be able to over rule such a critical case?  was it you who said let's see what happens during the next two years or was it anon #2? in any event all believe everything is going to be cool and know what? i honestly hope you're right believe it or not, i really hones to god hoping i'm wrong but i'm remaining a realist in relation to all of this when it comes to my family friends and finances...  do i let this trip me over during every single waking hour? nope....  i get along just fine but when i sit down to do my due diligence then it bothers me to the degree i sometimes have to walk away from it all and play with my children or spend time with my wife or play music which i've been doing a lot lately, or what ever.  but you have not come up with even one single shred of evidence to disprove one single point i've made so far...  i read your post, i extend every possible courtesy when i'm in the middle of this type of discussion...  you don't want to read my posts, don't read my posts but don't insult anyone by saying i didn't even read your post or tell them they don't know what they're talking about like what did to OP and others here have said to me... bottom line...  if your wealth is based on the dollar and you don't own what you have out right, i'm concerned for you, but you're not, so cool!


K~~~

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meams said:
cateyes. condense waht you're sayinggggg

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Anonymous said:
Honestly im so busy with school ATM I don't really have time to care about anything else.  If the monetary system goes to shit here in America I imagine we will do as most other countries do and make a new one. This is probably what the government intends to do anyway, they obviously don't care about the national debt.  Meanwhile, I’m broke, unattached to possessions, and increasing my school debt every semester, so if a financial crisis occurs…  I’ll pull through the rough times here in the states, or I guess my ass will have to learn Chinese.

Sure it will suck monkey balls for a while but, eh... My family owns 10,000 acres of fertile land in New Mexico, my mother is a physician, and the rest of my family knows farming and sustainability like the back of their hand.  I think we could make a nice little commune that would get use through the rough times.  Additionally, I don’t look at that type of lifestyle in a negative light.  Aka, I don’t need a mountain of silver, I’ll grow and slaughter my food myself if need be.  I have done it before…

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i'm kind of stunned to learn i'm in a discussion with a young adult in school to be honest as i thought you were some type of executive decision maker who was trying to school me in economics... it's cool though man, i appreciate you...  i'm sorry to hear you're accumulating school debt though...  this is one of the main issues regarding the march on wall street as many of those on the streets are graduates who can't find jobs but are saddled with a debt that can not be defaulted on...  neat little piece of legislation our so called leaders came up with.  there was an investigative journalist who was recently interviewed on PRN who said he believes almost all of the money available in the various loan programs is from China.  that the Chinese established front companies to fund education here in the US...  these are not government programs but the legislation was written in such a way that the loan balances can never be defaulted on... if this is actually true and our leaders knew the end details this is sort of treasonous as the reporter suggested it is, as it protects a foreign national from standard US law... i promise you i am not buying into this completely and i do expect this reporter to be a guest on again as they have been on many times before on different producers shows even.

it's really wild that your family owns 10,000 acres in new mexico as a solid friend of mine lives on the outskirts of phoenix and has been talking about transferring to the new mexico office of my company.  i only own 40 acres just north of sedona, but at least it's something.  the way he talked about new mexico I'd be willing to sell my property in arizona and buy some in new mexico... i have to do my home work though as far as weather and terrain and other issues, but as far as being self sufficient, i hear you on that one.  i may not be an expert farmer but i could learn and as far as survival i've hunted most of my adult life up until i became vegan and if shit does hit the fan which i honestly hope doesn't happen, i'll eat meat again, i have no problem with that if i have to. i own handguns, rifles and shotguns and so do many of my friends who will be right along with me.  i just got off the phone a very short while ago with a very good friend who's only animal protein is either caught, shot of arrowed...  as a vegan i recently accepted 4 pounds of vacuum sealed tuna... i just may break my vegan vows as i've always loved sushi!   i didn't realize that new mexico has a lot of wild game... one of my favorite bass players lives there and he rants about it all of the time.  his name is gary willis from the group tribal tech among many others... awesome bass player with a real unique style of three plus thumb finger right hand playing...  yeah now that two people have mentioned new mexico during the past week i consider it a sign... i'm one of those weird dudes who believes in jungs synchronicity!

hey do you want to here something interesting regarding growing your own food? the last piece of agricultural legislation that was passed to protect us from food poisoning has a number of sections covering small to mid sized farms and believe it or not, the original OP's video touches on one of the details in great detail... there used to be what were once called "victory gardens" popping up all over the place during the last depression where people collectively grew their own food but several aspects of this legislation have queer laws that make such gardens illegal from a food distribution stand point.  you can have personal gardens but the way the law was written it can't distribute it's grown food legally if it can't meet strict standards...  whether they'll be any body employed to enforce the laws, we'll have to wait and see but the language is clearly in the legislation.  i actually put up a thread in the politics forum as the legislation made it's way into the senate.  some people said bullshit! but many others said DAMN!  the laws directly effect farmers markets although they are not enforcing t he laws right now.  the only ones bearing the brunt of the new legislation are the small farmers as the additional work needed to comply has added about 15 or more additional hours of personal time in order to comply and report on the details of compliance.  and if they distribute instead of allowing for bulk pick up, the burden is even greater from what i've listen to others discuss on PRN.  for farms who have clerks and farm hands to do paperwork, labor and such, it's a win... another bizarre law goes into effect to control in some way under the guise of protecting us...  I'd go out of my way to buy from a small farmer or barter with him/her... fuck monsanto and the farmers who use their seeds...

PeaCe2U man and good luck in school...


K~~~

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cateyes said:

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Bambi said:

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cateyes said:
was there anything in my post you disagreed with bambi? are you going to buy the book and get a feel for where we came from and where we are headed?  i mean, i posted some information for the benefit of you as well as anon #2.  you realize that by admitting you couldn't care less after asking me to provide evidence supporting my argument it doesn't shed any positive light on your argument.  seriously, was there anything you didn't agree with? i mean what is it regarding the derivative markets that doesn't concern you?

K~~~

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Since you obviously pulled a bambi on me and ignored my post, ill post it again so maybe youll read it and actually respond to that instead of all that imaginary stuff. kaythanks

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1"the impending collapse of the derivative market is not imaginary."

2"i'm sorry if it seemed or i became personal but if you read your original posts you'd see you said things that just aren't true and then basically criticized me and my view of the big picture.  i'm sorry things degraded to the point they did and i apologize for my role in the conversation...  "

3" i'm asking you once again to consider it and we can debate from that point on but i suspect after you get done reading it i'll have an ally in you."

4"  but you have not come up with even one single shred of evidence to disprove one single point i've made so far...  i read your post, i extend every possible courtesy when i'm in the middle of this type of discussion...  you don't want to read my posts, don't read my posts but don't insult anyone by saying i didn't even read your post or tell them they don't know what they're talking about like what did to OP and others here have said to me... bottom line...  if your wealth is based on the dollar and you don't own what you have out right, i'm concerned for you, but you're not, so cool!"

K~~~

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1-I meant that you were responding to things i never mentioned in my post. I just dont see why you feel the need to expand on so many things that (while related to the subject) wernt in direct response with what i said/asked. You just seem to have too much information you want to share and it leads to rather long and blocky responses that are a bit unpleasant to read.

2. My original post was before you were in this thread and directed towards the op, so i dont see how i criticized you. Maybe your view, but that was unintentional as you hadnt posted. I only meant to point out to the op that the market may not be collapsing in the immediate future and that his source isnt the best source one could have.

3. I respectfully deny your request for me to read that book because i have other things i need to concentrate in my life and i don see it really benefiting me at this stage in life. maybe a few years down the road, but not now.

4. I would appreciate it if you filled your posts with less fluff that supports your opinion while not directly refuting my argument (thats just how i see it) and i will go back at one point and clarify my first post and what not when i have the time. I just dont see any need for you to bring in my personal assets into the debate. I see that as a pissing contest similar to what you and anon 2 have done the past few posts. You just do you and imma do me. Besides, if we all acted and thought the same, well what fun would that be?

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Bambi said:
Not to be overly rude, but you don't seem to know all of what youre talking about. While we have lost jobs to China, it is still debatable who has a higher manufacturing rate. Also, there is speculation that the US will be energy independent by the end of next year and that we will begin to export energy. With excess energy it will become cheaper to run factories than in some other places, thus creating more jobs. The combination of more manufacturing and the sale of energy could be the start needed to help turn around this debt.

While yes, there is a good chance what youre talking about could occur at some time there is no guarantee it could happen anytime soon. Optimistics still have a some hope to hold on to where the US could potentially turn its self around. And no, i didnt click on your links.

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Bambi said:

1-I meant that you were responding to things i never mentioned in my post. I just dont see why you feel the need to expand on so many things that (while related to the subject) wernt in direct response with what i said/asked. You just seem to have too much information you want to share and it leads to rather long and blocky responses that are a bit unpleasant to read.

2. My original post was before you were in this thread and directed towards the op, so i dont see how i criticized you. Maybe your view, but that was unintentional as you hadnt posted. I only meant to point out to the op that the market may not be collapsing in the immediate future and that his source isnt the best source one could have.

3. I respectfully deny your request for me to read that book because i have other things i need to concentrate in my life and i don see it really benefiting me at this stage in life. maybe a few years down the road, but not now.

4. I would appreciate it if you filled your posts with less fluff that supports your opinion while not directly refuting my argument (thats just how i see it) and i will go back at one point and clarify my first post and what not when i have the time. I just dont see any need for you to bring in my personal assets into the debate. I see that as a pissing contest similar to what you and anon 2 have done the past few posts. You just do you and imma do me. Besides, if we all acted and thought the same, well what fun would that be?

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well look at it this way as it's really the only way you can look at it...  OP asked if it was a good idea to default on a credit card and i explained that this is actually a well discussed strategy because if the economy does tank bad credit won't mean squat and this is a strategy economists on PRN discuss all of the time, to the degree they advise to set aside enough money to completely pay for filing bankruptcy.  now you may find this unethical but many with high fico scores and credit lines who know the deal are willing to do this if they can time it right, in the mean time they're using their credit cards to make every single payment and pay off the balance before the statement ever comes in, in order to beat the charges.  this is a very valid strategy but the goal is to really make it worth it.  i'm not saying my dad is thinking about this at all as a matter of fact he'd prefer to preserve his credit line but he's got a total available credit line well over 150,000 dolllars...

i agree with you that the people in the video aren't completely "qualified" based on the plack on the wall bullshit but one dude has home schooled himself and owns close to one dozen rental homes he purchased in the past and outright owns every single one of them by selling many others he owned and paid off the existing balances with the money he made as profit...  he's actually been taken under the wing of a hyper-inflation economic group because he's smart and he has an extremely huge Utube fan base...  then there's the guy named ManOfTruth who has a masters degree in economics from Harvard!!!  i shit you not!  i've actually met he dude and let me tell you something there is no one more in tune with what has been happening then him... and the really cool thing about him is he's a really hard core survivalist... you should see how he lives! as far as the Asian guy, i honestly don't know his credentials but i will say he presented some of the best material in OP's video that's for sure...  he's got my vote!!!

don't read the book!!! i don't care, i was only suggesting you read it in order to fully understand/wrap your head around the current situation better... don't read it!

exactly what argument did you ever present? tell me in your response to me... what point did you make that i didn't address... i addressed you when you claimed we'd be energy independent next year and selling energy... that we'd have so much energy we'd be able to operate our factories so cheaply we'd be able to create jobs again!!! i asked you to provide just one source that could back this up and you couldn't even do that but instead began bashing the length of my posts demonstrating just a handful of weaknesses in our economy i'm hip to...  you provided nothing at all to this entire debate... name one thing you've provided any of us here!

fluff? you call detailed posts fluff? shit i already see no future in intelligent conversation between you and i, this is clear to me now.  and as far as your personal finances go and all of it's details, when have i ever asked you a single thing regarding that issue? i asked you in my last post to discredit just one stinking aspect of my post to you and you come up with this 4 point bulletin... do me and more importantly yourself one huge favor and block me.

K~~~

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Bambi said:

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Bambi said:
Not to be overly rude, but you don't seem to know all of what youre talking about. While we have lost jobs to China, it is still debatable who has a higher manufacturing rate. Also, there is speculation that the US will be energy independent by the end of next year and that we will begin to export energy. With excess energy it will become cheaper to run factories than in some other places, thus creating more jobs. The combination of more manufacturing and the sale of energy could be the start needed to help turn around this debt.

While yes, there is a good chance what youre talking about could occur at some time there is no guarantee it could happen anytime soon. Optimistics still have a some hope to hold on to where the US could potentially turn its self around. And no, i didnt click on your links.

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"While we have lost jobs to China, it is still debatable who has a higher manufacturing rate." Source

"Also, there is speculation that the US will be energy independent by the end of next year and that we will begin to export energy. With excess energy it will become cheaper to run factories than in some other places, thus creating more jobs" Okay, so i should have clarified what i said and not used such a broad term such as energy. What i meant was that there will be a natural gas surplus which will drive down the price of electricity which could make factories cheaper to run than say Chile: "Methanex Corp., the world's biggest methanol maker, said it will dismantle a factory in Chile and reassemble it in Louisiana to take advantage of low natural gas prices.". This would create jobs and the increase in exports of natural gas will bring in more money. Source

"The combination of more manufacturing and the sale of energy Natural gas* could be the start needed to help turn around this debt." The combination i feel sets a good start to turning around US debt if it were to ever happen.

"While yes, there is a good chance what youre talking about could occur at some time there is no guarantee it could happen anytime soon. Optimistics still have a some hope to hold on to where the US could potentially turn its self around." Notice that i never said anything stating that i believe the us economy will thrive for ever or even now. I even said that what the op is talking about could happen, but i suggested that he be aware that might not happen soon. I said how optimistics still could have hope, but never indicated that i was one of them. Yes there is a chance that the economy will fail this year, but there is also a chance the economy will last 100 years. No one knows for sure.

Take what i say with a grain of salt if you want. Disregard my sources since you take what the media says with a grain of salt (i think). And next time, just because i try to support something, dont assume i actually feel it to be true, please? I just enjoy presenting the other side to people to make them reflect on their idea. Honestly, if you must know, i have 0 credibility and very few assets outside of a car, some stocks, and electronics. I also think that the market will crash, but not for another 30-50 years or so. just my two cents.

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qman said:

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Bambi said:

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Bambi said:
Not to be overly rude, but you don't seem to know all of what youre talking about. While we have lost jobs to China, it is still debatable who has a higher manufacturing rate. Also, there is speculation that the US will be energy independent by the end of next year and that we will begin to export energy. With excess energy it will become cheaper to run factories than in some other places, thus creating more jobs. The combination of more manufacturing and the sale of energy could be the start needed to help turn around this debt.

While yes, there is a good chance what youre talking about could occur at some time there is no guarantee it could happen anytime soon. Optimistics still have a some hope to hold on to where the US could potentially turn its self around. And no, i didnt click on your links.

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"While we have lost jobs to China, it is still debatable who has a higher manufacturing rate." Source

"Also, there is speculation that the US will be energy independent by the end of next year and that we will begin to export energy. With excess energy it will become cheaper to run factories than in some other places, thus creating more jobs" Okay, so i should have clarified what i said and not used such a broad term such as energy. What i meant was that there will be a natural gas surplus which will drive down the price of electricity which could make factories cheaper to run than say Chile: "Methanex Corp., the world's biggest methanol maker, said it will dismantle a factory in Chile and reassemble it in Louisiana to take advantage of low natural gas prices.". This would create jobs and the increase in exports of natural gas will bring in more money. Source

"The combination of more manufacturing and the sale of energy Natural gas* could be the start needed to help turn around this debt." The combination i feel sets a good start to turning around US debt if it were to ever happen.

"While yes, there is a good chance what youre talking about could occur at some time there is no guarantee it could happen anytime soon. Optimistics still have a some hope to hold on to where the US could potentially turn its self around." Notice that i never said anything stating that i believe the us economy will thrive for ever or even now. I even said that what the op is talking about could happen, but i suggested that he be aware that might not happen soon. I said how optimistics still could have hope, but never indicated that i was one of them. Yes there is a chance that the economy will fail this year, but there is also a chance the economy will last 100 years. No one knows for sure.

Take what i say with a grain of salt if you want. Disregard my sources since you take what the media says with a grain of salt (i think). And next time, just because i try to support something, dont assume i actually feel it to be true, please? I just enjoy presenting the other side to people to make them reflect on their idea. Honestly, if you must know, i have 0 credibility and very few assets outside of a car, some stocks, and electronics. I also think that the market will crash, but not for another 30-50 years or so. just my two cents.

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The sources that you use are misleading to say the least, yes manufacturing output in the US is still strong relative to other nations, but we are talking about JOBS, not production. Work continues to be shipped overseas at a fast pace, that is a fact, that has nothing to do with productivity rates.

The energy piece was maybe one of the worst propaganda articles I have seen in a very long time, quotes from the CIA director about the energy sector?

Yes, natural gas production and reserves are a great opportunity for this nation, prices are at a 12 year low, but we need to first build a natural gas infrastructure, that takes a long time.

Yes, oil production is up in this country, but what they failed to mention was how much we import, all they said was it could come down by 2020. That is misleading because demand is also going to be higher.

Why is WTI oil at $103 and Brent oil at $120 today with very weak demand? Because the markets are thinking about where is the oil going to come from in 5 years, global production remains flat with growing demand, that is a fact.

I listen to people that work and invest in the energy sector about the future for energy, government officials should be the last ones to listen too, they were told what to say.

I know the other side of the arguments, that is all that the mainstream media uses 24/7, what myself and cateyes are doing is showing the real other side of the debate, the one that most people never hear.

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