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OrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Uber spiritual people never display their powers.

2
#15766068 - 02/05/12 07:45 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

Really? And someone knows this from not seeing any siddhis performed?

This is one of the most popular and ridiculous excuses for no one being able to pass a skeptic's muster. First off, no one is able to present any validity to this claim. Secondly, if it cannot be witnessed by anyone it cannot be known.

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This is your drain on brugs.

Edited by OrgoneConclusion (02/06/12 04:46 PM)

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deCypher

Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515

Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15766097 - 02/05/12 07:53 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

I'd flaunt my uber-powerful siddhis for y'all but that would be showing too much ego. :ohwell:

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Forest_Gospel
Planetary Citizen

Registered: 05/28/11
Posts: 35
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15766123 - 02/05/12 07:59 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

Maybe it's less that spiritual powers need to be proven, but rather skeptics must initiate their own investigation.

I think it's safe to blame institutionalized religion for science developing separately from spirituality. However, it can be seen as a blessing and a curse.

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teknix
ÐøøÐ

Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 4,734

Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Forest_Gospel]
#15766154 - 02/05/12 08:05 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

The Placebo Effect is proof of uber super powers we have.

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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Forest_Gospel]
#15766175 - 02/05/12 08:10 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

but rather skeptics must initiate their own investigation.

Yes, we must spend every waking moment chasing down chimeras. :yawn:

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the human abstract
White Girl

Registered: 11/30/09
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15766182 - 02/05/12 08:12 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

The chew a cobra essay

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★

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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

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Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Forest_Gospel]
#15766200 - 02/05/12 08:17 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

I think it's safe to blame institutionalized religion for science developing separately from spirituality.

No, there will always be a rift between fact and fantasy, belief and proof.

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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (02/06/12 04:46 PM)

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teknix
ÐøøÐ

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Posts: 4,734

Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15766234 - 02/05/12 08:25 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

What do I win if I can increase the voltage on a multimeter just from holding the leads and concentrating?

Or increase temperature of an area of my body to above 100 degree's Fahrenheit?

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Jwlst
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15766308 - 02/05/12 08:42 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

What do you think you have some kind of better way to look down on people?

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teknix
ÐøøÐ

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Jwlst]
#15766320 - 02/05/12 08:45 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

I can even show that holding the positive lead in the right hand and negative lead in the left hand will yield a positive result, whereas the negative lead in the right hand and positive in the left will yield a negative result. Showing the polarity, that has been described as yin and yang. Right hand is yang and left is yin is what has been taught, and can be proven imo.

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15766431 - 02/05/12 09:11 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

AC voltage is the setting if you care to experiment.

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tempusvita
PLATONIC

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Jwlst]
#15766493 - 02/05/12 09:25 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Jwlst said:
What do you think you have some kind of better way to look down on people?

The pipe is connected to an apparatus he is sitting on.

Took me a lil to figure it out. But the pipe was a give away.

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Jwlst
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15766494 - 02/05/12 09:25 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
I can even show that holding the positive lead in the right hand and negative lead in the left hand will yield a positive result, whereas the negative lead in the right hand and positive in the left will yield a negative result. Showing the polarity, that has been described as yin and yang. Right hand is yang and left is yin is what has been taught, and can be proven imo.

Sorry, didn't quite catch that..negative goes in which hand now?

Quote:

tempusvita said:
The pipe is connected to an apparatus he is sitting on.

Took me a lil to figure it out. But the pipe was a give away.

Yep that is correct, the pipe is actually holding up a litte stand for him to sit on.

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Jwlst]
#15766624 - 02/05/12 09:59 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

^.~ multimeter, not power line.

:rofl2:

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teknix
ÐøøÐ

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15766636 - 02/05/12 10:01 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15766752 - 02/05/12 10:35 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: tempusvita]
#15766819 - 02/05/12 11:04 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

The pipe is connected to an apparatus he is sitting on.

Took me a lil to figure it out. But the pipe was a give away.

Works better right in the middle. :blush:

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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced

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Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor

Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15766828 - 02/05/12 11:07 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

What do I win if I can increase the voltage on a multimeter just from holding the leads and concentrating?

Do you believe electric eels are spiritually enlightened?

Quote:

Or increase temperature of an area of my body to above 100 degree's Fahrenheit?

How do you consider that to be supernatural? How does that not follow natural laws?

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Jwlst]
#15766833 - 02/05/12 11:08 PM (3 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Jwlst said:
Quote:

teknix said:
I can even show that holding the positive lead in the right hand and negative lead in the left hand will yield a positive result, whereas the negative lead in the right hand and positive in the left will yield a negative result. Showing the polarity, that has been described as yin and yang. Right hand is yang and left is yin is what has been taught, and can be proven imo.

Sorry, didn't quite catch that..negative goes in which hand now?

Quote:

tempusvita said:
The pipe is connected to an apparatus he is sitting on.

Took me a lil to figure it out. But the pipe was a give away.

Yep that is correct, the pipe is actually holding up a litte stand for him to sit on.

That guy almost won the million dollars. :ohwell:

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Diploid
Cuban

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,226
Loc: Rabbit Hole

Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: tempusvita]
#15768682 - 02/06/12 01:46 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

The pipe is connected to an apparatus he is sitting on.

I saw that picture on another web forum where a HUGE fight broke out between the believers and the skeptics. Believers insisted that this guy is [fill in hard to pronounce name] and known the world over for his abilities. They insisted that he's over 400 years old and that he has not eaten food or drunk water in several decades. It was a deeply absurd level of belief despite what an obvious fraud this is. The stick he's "sitting" on isn't even vertical. It's leaning due to his weight. Obviously, there's a seat attached at one end to the top of the stick.

Even after several people posted pictures of them doing the same thing but revealing the apparatus to the camera, the believers fought tooth and nail against the truth and clung to their beliefs even in the face of hard, unassailable debunking. The profound stupidity of faithful belief never ceases to amaze me even after all these years I've observed it.

That forum thread reminded me a bit of this place, especially the S&M and Conspiracy forums where there's little rational counter-debate. :sad:

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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.

Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721

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tempusvita
PLATONIC

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Diploid]
#15769268 - 02/06/12 03:36 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
The pipe is connected to an apparatus he is sitting on.

I saw that picture on another web forum where a HUGE fight broke out between the believers and the skeptics. Believers insisted that this guy is [fill in hard to pronounce name] and known the world over for his abilities. They insisted that he's over 400 years old and that he has not eaten food or drunk water in several decades. It was a deeply absurd level of belief despite what an obvious fraud this is. The stick he's "sitting" on isn't even vertical. It's leaning due to his weight. Obviously, there's a seat attached at one end to the top of the stick.

Even after several people posted pictures of them doing the same thing but revealing the apparatus to the camera, the believers fought tooth and nail against the truth and clung to their beliefs even in the face of hard, unassailable debunking. The profound stupidity of faithful belief never ceases to amaze me even after all these years I've observed it.

That forum thread reminded me a bit of this place, especially the S&M and Conspiracy forums where there's little rational counter-debate.

I really am so curious how people think like that. How people are so different from each other. I mean I am only me, I will never see the world through someone else's eyes.

But what makes them tick? How come as soon as I saw it I did/felt something that made me want to figure out the truth about it?

What makes someone want to figure out the truth of things, and the other want to believe? Its so interesting.

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Diploid
Cuban

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: tempusvita]

1
#15769521 - 02/06/12 04:30 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

What makes someone want to figure out the truth of things, and the other want to believe?

Not to sound like a friend of mine, but: death anxiety.

The more you fear death, the more you're going to cling to things that suggest there is "something more". The less you fear death, the more you're going to look for the truth, WHATEVER it may be.

I would be tickled pink if there were real, hard, irrefutable evidence of telepathy, or telekinesis, or whatever. It would change everything. I'd shift my world view from what appears to be a completely nihilistic universe to one with meaning, an afterlife, and "something more".

But I don't see that anywhere, and I've looked really, really hard for going on 50 years now. Not one single tiny little speck of something more have I found. And every time I encounter someone who insists they've experienced this thing, I find that when I press them with a rational, neutral, logical analysis of what they claim to have experienced, they start insulting me.

I can't speak for others, but that's why I question these beliefs. I think truth can withstand ANY scrutiny, ANY critique. But true believers reject scrutiny of their beliefs because, IMO, they know deep down inside that their beliefs don't hold water, and they're too anxious/fearful about their pending death to admit it even to themselves. :shrug:

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Diploid]
#15769628 - 02/06/12 04:48 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

That forum thread reminded me a bit of this place, especially the S&M and Conspiracy forums where there's little rational counter-debate.

There used to be until Swami was assassinated by believers.

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tempusvita
PLATONIC

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Diploid]
#15769638 - 02/06/12 04:50 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

The more you fear death, the more you're going to cling to things that suggest there is "something more".

Very good point.

Quote:

I would be tickled pink if there were real, hard, irrefutable evidence of telepathy, or telekinesis, or whatever. It would change everything. I'd shift my world view from what appears to be a completely nihilistic universe to one with meaning, an afterlife, and "something more".

But I don't see that anywhere, and I've looked really, really hard for going on 50 years now. Not one single tiny little speck of something more have I found. And every time I encounter someone who insists they've experienced this thing, I find that when I press them with a rational, neutral, logical analysis of what they claim to have experienced, they start insulting me.

WOW! Don't you think at some level then, they sort of don't even believe it themselves at an unconscious level? Like why would they get defensive, rather than explain their rationale, however irrational?

VERY interesting!

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r72rock
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Diploid]
#15769765 - 02/06/12 05:10 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

Amen. The truth is not fragile. I can be beaten around and put up against anything. If it fails, then it mustn't be the truth. :shrug:

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现在

Refraining from all evil, not clinging to birth and death, working in deep compassion for all sentient beings, respecting those over you and pitying those below you, without any detesting or desiring, worrying or lamentation - this is what is called Buddha. Do not search beyond it. - Dōgen

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teejaflu
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: r72rock]
#15769931 - 02/06/12 05:40 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

here's some proof guys. Pretty convincing imo.

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teejaflu]
#15769953 - 02/06/12 05:45 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

Convincing to whom? Not any educated person.

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teejaflu
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15769979 - 02/06/12 05:49 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Convincing to whom? Not any educated person.

What about it wasn't convincing? Are you suggesting that the whole thing is faked?

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teejaflu]
#15769992 - 02/06/12 05:51 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

If you cannot figure out what I am saying it's no wonder you are struggling with a grainy video.

:yawn:

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teejaflu
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]

4
#15770018 - 02/06/12 05:57 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

You obviously didn't even watch the video. I'm not saying that this video is evidence that absolutely proves it to scientific standards, but if you just use your own judgement it doesn't appear faked. Why would they come up with this crazy story and have a bunch of people fake being electrocuted? This is an old ass video, so I also doubt they were capable of cgi. Try watching the video and let me know what you think.

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Rahz
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teejaflu]
#15770027 - 02/06/12 05:58 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

It's not proof, it's evidence. And it could all be faked. Interesting how they cut away just as he was about to light the newspaper. Also interesting that he could light up an LED but couldn't manage a reading on the volt meter. Convenient that he got upset with himself at the end. Now it's not possible to get independent verification of any of his feats.

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rahz

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Rahz]
#15770058 - 02/06/12 06:04 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

A hoax does not count as evidence.

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Diploid
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teejaflu]
#15770133 - 02/06/12 06:23 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

here's some proof guys. Pretty convincing imo.

Nope, not convincing at all. This guy has been debunked. He's a fraud. It's fucking depressing how people buy into this shit.

After one of his newspaper fire demonstrations, a skeptic took the burned newspaper residue and ran it through a chromatograph to identify the constituent molecules. He found potassium carbonate and magazine oxide. These are two telltale molecules that result after the textbook hypergolic chemical reaction of glycerol and potassium permanganate. It's taught in high school for fuck's sake.

What does this tell us? That our fraud dropped potassium permanganate into the newspaper as he balled it up. Then he palmed a vial of glycerol, the same way a stage magician does, and crushed it into the newspaper as he put it on the ground. When the two substances met, the hypergolic chemical reaction took place and started the fire.

Anyone who has taken high school chemistry would immediately see this demonstration for the fraud that it is. But true believers, who buy into anything that supports their pre-conclusions no matter how outrageous, are easily duped by hucksters and YouTube videos. It's the kind of (non)thinking that leads to people being locked in government cages for possessing a plant, and it's the kind of (non)thinking that has lead to this fucked up ugly world we inhabit. :shrug:

Here's what a hypergolic reaction looks like when it's done by a scientist instead of a fraud:

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Diploid]
#15770263 - 02/06/12 06:44 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

IT'S A MIRACLE! (That or Satan...)

:pope:

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4896744
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Diploid]
#15770377 - 02/06/12 06:59 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

Edit:

Quote:

Anyone who has comprehended high school chemistry

It is obvious that you can take high school chemistry, pass, and still not know shit about chemistry, in this country at least.

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blingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teejaflu]
#15771716 - 02/06/12 11:31 PM (3 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

teejaflu said:
here's some proof guys. Pretty convincing imo.

i see this video posted here every few months. as diploid pointed out it's a fake. but i'm sure in a few months i'll see it again. maybe i should bookmark this thread so i can send people to diploids explanation rather than begin the arduous task of continually debating the same rehashed pseudospiritual garbage.

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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker

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blingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Diploid]
#15771836 - 02/07/12 12:04 AM (3 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
What makes someone want to figure out the truth of things, and the other want to believe?

Not to sound like a friend of mine, but: death anxiety.

The more you fear death, the more you're going to cling to things that suggest there is "something more". The less you fear death, the more you're going to look for the truth, WHATEVER it may be.

I would be tickled pink if there were real, hard, irrefutable evidence of telepathy, or telekinesis, or whatever. It would change everything. I'd shift my world view from what appears to be a completely nihilistic universe to one with meaning, an afterlife, and "something more".

But I don't see that anywhere, and I've looked really, really hard for going on 50 years now. Not one single tiny little speck of something more have I found. And every time I encounter someone who insists they've experienced this thing, I find that when I press them with a rational, neutral, logical analysis of what they claim to have experienced, they start insulting me.

I can't speak for others, but that's why I question these beliefs. I think truth can withstand ANY scrutiny, ANY critique. But true believers reject scrutiny of their beliefs because, IMO, they know deep down inside that their beliefs don't hold water, and they're too anxious/fearful about their pending death to admit it even to themselves.

“The richer–that is, the more varied and complete–the individual’s emotional life, the less is he driven to projection, and the more will he incline to identification. His outlet and satisfaction comes in identifying himself with the emotions of the other. On the other hand, the narrower and more restricted the individual’s emotional life, the more intense will be his fewer emotions, the less will he be inclined to, and capable of, identification–the lack of which he has to compensate for by projection. Projection thus proves to be a compensatory mechanism that adjusts for an inner lack. Identification, on the other hand, is an expression of abundance, of the desire for union, for alliance, for sharing. “ - Otto Rank

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15777716 - 02/08/12 04:16 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

What do I win if I can increase the voltage on a multimeter just from holding the leads and concentrating?

Do you believe electric eels are spiritually enlightened?

Quote:

Or increase temperature of an area of my body to above 100 degree's Fahrenheit?

How do you consider that to be supernatural? How does that not follow natural laws?

Increasing your voltage isn't super-natural? Can you increase your body heat from "thinking" about it?

If you can then show me, otherwise you has squat.

You focus on "magic" being an external effect. This real magic is within.

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dkmonk
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15777858 - 02/08/12 05:37 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

I am pretty sure cold water divers have been proven to be able to raise their body temp by a degree or two right before they jump in. They do extensive training though.

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: dkmonk]
#15777867 - 02/08/12 05:41 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

Anyways, the entire topic is misconstrued. Uber spiritual people aren't the magicians. They are the guys meditating, you don't see their magic.

Spirituality is not about super-powers, jeez.

If those guys raise their body heat then they are closer to spirituality than the bozo's doing magic tricks.

It requires being able to move awareness around within to take over autonomous control. The awareness you think is your eyes and seeing, that is the limited view.

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dkmonk
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15777877 - 02/08/12 05:46 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

I think if a person was able to tap into some force through meditation they wouldn't be parading around claiming they could. I think they would secretly use it to help without ever being recognized as a true healer.

The people most spiritually sound are the ones you don't hear about.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: dkmonk]
#15777892 - 02/08/12 05:51 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

I'm sure an Uber Spiritual Person would have far better things to expend energy on than trying to impress a skeptic.

I doubt you have enough money in your bank to equal the value of the spiritual energy that would have to be expelled for such super-human feats.

You value money, they value energy. Why would they trade you their lifetime of hardwork used to cultivate energy for money that is of no concern to them?

You don't really have anything to offer an uber-spiritual person.

Edited by teknix (02/08/12 05:58 AM)

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15777940 - 02/08/12 06:05 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

How do you measure another persons spirtual attainment? I think is would be hard to say he is ahead of this guy.

I know a lot of people that can talk really smooth, and act part pretty well, so I assume that after years of meditation and trying so hard to breakthrough and become enlightened a lot of them just claim they are one day and use their people skills to gain convincing importance in that lifestyle.

I watched many documentary's and I didn't see anyone who was reportedly at a high level of spirituality that really made me think that he had reached complete inner peace.

The only thing that came close was a story about Ram Dass' teacher who reportdedly took a bunch of acid for the first time with no noticeable change, and he seemed to know what people were thinking. Not enough to convince me it was true though.

I think enlightenment is something that comes ones ever few hundred years, and takes a very special mind.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: dkmonk]
#15777954 - 02/08/12 06:17 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

"was a story"

I read a story about superman in his fortress of solitude

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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker

"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Icelander]
#15778000 - 02/08/12 06:38 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

I think that is good dkmonk, you shouldn't be convinced except by your experience.

Say a mage did show an old man his power, as amazing as that power is, how dumb and disapointed would be the old man. the old man would know there is not enough time for him to ever achieve such a thing, and would finish his life in more suffering and torment than if he just wrote it off as a hoax.

It would be even worse if he understood the implications.

So did the mage help the man by proving his powers?

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Icelander]

1
#15778338 - 02/08/12 08:56 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
"was a story"

I read a story about superman in his fortress of solitude

I was just there last weekend.

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15778348 - 02/08/12 08:59 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

Summation:

The way we know that Uber Spiritual people with siddhis exist is because they do not demonstrate such powers. This is the same way we know aliens are among us - because they are so technologically advanced that we cannot detect them.

Hey - this is fun! You can prove any myth using this irrational technique. :crazy2:

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15778384 - 02/08/12 09:11 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

There's this guy. He likes to lay in fires. Dunno if that is considered a siddhi or not.

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: White Beard]
#15778389 - 02/08/12 09:12 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

It can't be because it is being demonstrated to skeptics. Did you not read the whole thread?

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15778412 - 02/08/12 09:18 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

Oh true.

I better not show off my powers then so they can stay as super siddhis.

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: White Beard]
#15778425 - 02/08/12 09:22 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

Exactly. The less you demonstrate the more powerful you become. Then people feel your energy and start to flock around. You get laid twice a day by different chicks. Then you start a community in rural Guyana. When your powers reach their peak, you take everyone into Cosmic Oneness with you.

Of course, outsiders do not understand that you left your body for something better.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15778477 - 02/08/12 09:36 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

Sounds like a good deal.

Heres that guy demonstrating his not so special non-siddhi on video:

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: White Beard]
#15778575 - 02/08/12 10:05 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

'Fire Yogi' certainly sounds better than 'Lying Down Next To A Fire Yogi'.

A few drops of water for 28 years? Anyone can claim anything. So what? No one has ever passed a controlled not-eating test. Not merely fasting, but not eating anything and maintaining body weight. :sorry:

When breatharian Wiley Brooks got caught with a Big Mac, he blamed negative city energy and stated that when in the moutains with pure air (the old 'when no one is looking' defense), he never had to eat.

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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (02/08/12 10:16 AM)

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15778596 - 02/08/12 10:12 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

I think 'Lying Down Next To A Fire Yogi' sounds pretty catchy. Perhaps it was too long to fit on the cover of the box?

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: White Beard]
#15778612 - 02/08/12 10:18 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

Henceforth yee shall be known as 'The guy who posted the Lying Next to a Fire Yogi video' guy.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15778616 - 02/08/12 10:19 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

Excellent. :smile:

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15778660 - 02/08/12 10:33 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

When breatharoian Wiley Brooks got caught with a Big Mac, he blamed negative city energy and stated that when in the moutains with pure air (the old 'when no one is looking' defense), he never had to eat.

Wiley Brooks is founder of the Breatharian Institute of America. He was first introduced to the public in 1980 when appearing on the TV show That's Incredible!. Brooks stopped teaching recently to "devote 100% of his time on solving the problem as to why he needed to eat some type of food to keep his physical body alive and allow his light body to manifest completely." Brooks claims to have found "four major deterrents" which prevented him from living without food: "people pollution", "food pollution", "air pollution" and "electro pollution".

In 1983 he was reportedly observed leaving a Santa Cruz 7-Eleven with a Slurpee, hot dog and Twinkies. He told Colors magazine in 2003 that he periodically breaks his fasting with a cheeseburger and a cola, explaining that when he's surrounded by junk culture and junk food, consuming them adds balance.

--

Jasmuheen (born Ellen Greve) was a prominent advocate of breatharianism in the 1990s. She claimed "I can go for months and months without having anything at all other than a cup of tea. My body runs on a different kind of nourishment." Interviewers found her house stocked with food; Jasmuheen claimed the food was for her husband. In 1999, she volunteered to be monitored closely by the Australian television program 60 Minutes for one week without eating to demonstrate her methods. Jasmuheen stated that she failed on the first day of the test because the hotel room in which she was confined was located near a busy road, causing stress and pollution that prevented absorption of required nutrients from the air. "I asked for fresh air. Seventy percent of my nutrients come from fresh air. I couldn’t even breathe," she said. The third day the test was moved to a mountainside retreat. After fasting for four days, Dr. Berris Wink, president of the Queensland branch of the Australian Medical Association, urged her to stop the test.

According to Dr. Wink, Jasmuheen’s pupils were dilated, her speech was slow, and she was "quite dehydrated, probably over 10%, getting up to 11%". Towards the end of the test, she said, "Her pulse is about double what it was when she started. The risks if she goes any further are kidney failure. 60 Minutes would be culpable if they encouraged her to continue. She should stop now". The test was stopped. Dr. Wink said, "Unfortunately there are a few people who may believe what she says, and I'm sure it's only a few, but I think it's quite irresponsible for somebody to be trying to encourage others to do something that is so detrimental to their health". Jasmuheen challenged the results of the program, saying, "Look, 6,000 people have done this around the world without any problem."[citation needed] Though she claims thousands of followers, mostly in Germany, there has been no verification that any have lived for extended periods without food.

Jasmuheen was awarded the Bent Spoon Award by Australian Skeptics in 2000 ("presented to the perpetrator of the most preposterous piece of paranormal or pseudoscientific piffle"). She also won the 2000 Ig Nobel Prize for Literature for Living on Light. Jasmuheen claims that their beliefs are based on the writings and "more recent channelled material" from St. Germain. She stated that her DNA has expanded from 2 to 12 strands, to "absorb more hydrogen". When offered $30,000 to prove her claim with a blood test, she said that she didn't understand the relevance.

The deaths of 49-year-old Australian-born Scotland resident Verity Linn, 31-year-old Munich preschool teacher Timo Degen, and 53-year-old Melbourne resident Lani Marcia Roslyn Morris while attempting the breatharian "diet" advocated by Jasmuheen have elicited criticism. Jim Vadim Pesnak, 63, and his wife Eugenia, 60, went to jail for six and two years on charges of manslaughter for their involvement in the death of Morris, when Pesnak delayed seeking medical attention. Jasmuheen claimed that Linn's death had a psycho-spiritual, rather than physiological, source.

Jasmuheen has denied any involvement with the three deaths and claims she cannot be held responsible for the actions of her followers. In reference to the death of Lani Morris, she said that perhaps Morris was "not coming from a place of integrity and did not have the right motivation".

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/cruz/01.05.00/nuzjunkies-0001.html

It's interesting to note that there are several Shroomerites who, right now this minute, believe this bullshit is real and that these frauds are hundreds of years old. Nevermind the truth when it contradicts their cherished beliefs. Most of them post exclusively in the S&M forum where they can cling to the beliefs they're so invested in and hide from the truth.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15778681 - 02/08/12 10:41 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Summation:

The way we know that Uber Spiritual people with siddhis exist is because they do not demonstrate such powers. This is the same way we know aliens are among us - because they are so technologically advanced that we cannot detect them.

Hey - this is fun! You can prove any myth using this irrational technique.

So what we turn to bad analogies?

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Diploid]
#15778683 - 02/08/12 10:42 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

I met Wiley at a pre-seminar meeting trying to get us to sign up for an expensive seminar. (funny how many times I have been called an 'arm chair skeptic') Anyhow, I asked him to do something amazing for us. He looked at me like I had two heads and declined, mumbling something about this 'not being a sideshow'.

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15778691 - 02/08/12 10:45 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

Yah, a magic performer without tricks is one thing, yet that is not spirituality.

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15778711 - 02/08/12 10:50 AM (3 months, 19 days ago)

Look teknix, you keep wanting it both ways.

If a yogi/seer/mystic can demonstrate his powers to one person he can demonstrate to another. True or false?

If a yogi/seer/mystic cannot demonstrate his powers to anyone, we should still believe him. True or false?

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15779244 - 02/08/12 12:59 PM (3 months, 19 days ago)

Who cares if you believe him? Why do you care?

It doesn't matter how much you beg a plead on your knee's , we all have got choices whether others like them or not.

No you shouldn't believe him without knowing.

I honestly think many of them are crackpot conmen, like you do, but I also have made discoveries personally that makes some claims no longer seem impossible.

Edited by teknix (02/08/12 01:06 PM)

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15779309 - 02/08/12 01:13 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Have I concluded that people can light shit on fire with their hands? Not even close.

Have I concluded that there is a way to choose how to feel rather than just feeling on reflex autonomously? Yes.

The same "representatives" you choose to discredit, have taken paths, that have truth within them. They do not represent the path or the spirituality. You chose them to represent it, and that is the fallacy.

What would be more valuable to you do you think?
(utility wise, not showmanship)

You can have all the riches in the world an still feel like shit, how's that?

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15779392 - 02/08/12 01:28 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

My first T/F question was too difficult for you, was it?

Quote:

You can have all the riches in the world an still feel like shit, how's that?

It is your usual 'irrelevant to the topic' tangent.

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blingbling
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15780686 - 02/08/12 06:13 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

You can have all the riches in the world an still feel like shit, how's that?

yeah, because someone who does not believe in mysticism is automatically a shallow materialist.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: blingbling]
#15781331 - 02/08/12 08:20 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

I think if there were actually spiritual people with powers that the rest of us didn't possess, and they refused to demonstrate said powers to win Randi's million dollar prize, then they would be the shallow egoists. Think of all the lives you could save with that money. You could donate it, buy food for the starving, build orphanages... the list goes on.

If their reason for turning down the opportunity to do all that good was that they were "just too spiritual to show off" then their display of their own holiness would be causing hundreds of people to go hungry unnecessarily. Talk about self-centered behavior.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15781617 - 02/08/12 09:23 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
My first T/F question was too difficult for you, was it?

If you don't see the answers, that is your problem. The 1st question was one of the stupidest ones I have ever seen.

You evidently do not understand what knowing means.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Samurai Drifter]
#15781632 - 02/08/12 09:29 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
I think if there were actually spiritual people with powers that the rest of us didn't possess, and they refused to demonstrate said powers to win Randi's million dollar prize, then they would be the shallow egoists. Think of all the lives you could save with that money. You could donate it, buy food for the starving, build orphanages... the list goes on.

If their reason for turning down the opportunity to do all that good was that they were "just too spiritual to show off" then their display of their own holiness would be causing hundreds of people to go hungry unnecessarily. Talk about self-centered behavior.

You make good points, but what if that energy that he expelled could have been better utilized by him? Like say to help another to his level, so that other might then do the same for another, etc.

I honestly can't say what the motive is, so I don't assume it is anything more than a choice.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teejaflu]
#15781657 - 02/08/12 09:33 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

teejaflu said:
Why would they come up with this crazy story and have a bunch of people fake being electrocuted?

Because it appears to convince people- as you yourself demonstrate.

Who said their movements were fake anyways? Mechanical stimulation of the nerves will result in spasms of the inervated muscle. Now, this doesn't look at all like "electrocution", but then I suspect you don't really have any reason to compare it to that.

The same thing happens when a nurse tries to take an arterial blood gas sample and hits a nerve. Hell, I've done the same thing myself- am I a magic chi dude too?

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: johnm214]
#15781772 - 02/08/12 10:11 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Our ability to determine about anothers realization is dependent upon our realizations.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15781786 - 02/08/12 10:13 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

the power of reason is based only on our experiences

This is what I have come to the realization or rather come into thinking

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: the human abstract]
#15781797 - 02/08/12 10:16 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

That would be a realization, because to see that you must drop the idea's that pretend to play a part of reasoning and submit directly to the experience. Now just drop the thinking part that is in between the experience and articulation.

Edited by teknix (02/08/12 10:25 PM)

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15782136 - 02/09/12 12:27 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

I honestly can't say what the motive is, so I don't assume it is anything more than a choice.

Or maybe there are no powers. :shrug:

That must be taken into account. The possibility of fraud. Very very common among humans seeking power over others or attention for themselves. I would think that if someone was not going to demonstrate their powers due to whatever reason they would have, no one would ever have become aware this person ever had any to begin with. :shrug:

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Icelander]
#15782339 - 02/09/12 02:49 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

generally such a person with 'powers' that only they know about,
are called by the nonpowered norms to be 'delusional' or more popularly, 'insane'. :yesnod:

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: quinn]
#15782432 - 02/09/12 04:49 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

I would think they just keep all that to themselves not that I believe in it at all at this point. It seems like pure wishful thinking and/or death anxiety.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Icelander]
#15782955 - 02/09/12 08:44 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Look at it this way, say a guy does light paper on fire claiming it is with his mind/body right in front of you. So now do you believe that he really did it?

There is not knowing in thinking, only assumption.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15782966 - 02/09/12 08:46 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Likely the only way a skeptic can know it is true is if they can do it and experience it in the first person.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15783006 - 02/09/12 09:00 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Likely the only way a skeptic can know it is true is if they can do it and experience it in the first person.

Yeah, just like how nobody beleives scientific papers unless they replicate them?

NO, actually that's not at all true.

The problem is a bunch of antecdotal reports that are usually conclusory in nature and therefore don't even provide you any facts as to how the determination was made in the first place. There is no superiority on the part of the witness in their ability to come to the correct conclusions- their advantage is only in having more of the facts available to them.

Take a look at the conspiracy forum posts or any other report of such paranromal experiences and compare them to, say, a scientific paper. You'll see exactly why people believe the later and question the former - beyond the fact that the former is generally offered by people of unknown sincerity, ability, and identity, the scientific papers provide a complete description of the factual observations and a detailed accounting of the basis for any conclusions so that the claims may be evaluated.

While I'm sure there exists some guy who won't believe other people regardless, this is besides the point. The point is that there are legitimate reasons to reject most of the nonsense reports of paranormal activity because they are very poorly communicated- (interestingly enough, just like the youtube expose's on the topic, despite their having the visual medium to work with).

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: johnm214]
#15783012 - 02/09/12 09:04 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Well, due to the objective and limited nature of science, it is not applicable to to mystical phenomena at this point in its evolution. Science has shown us that it has never been complete.

Sure it can lead to knowing about most of the physical world, but it doesn't mean that improbable is impossible.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15783286 - 02/09/12 10:16 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggGvYd9-OCU

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]

1
#15783356 - 02/09/12 10:35 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Well, due to the objective and limited nature of science, it is not applicable to to mystical phenomena at this point in its evolution

Translation: Pseudo-mystical garbage can be recorded on low-fi video, but cannot be viewed directly by someone who knows the tricks.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: tribesman]
#15783362 - 02/09/12 10:36 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

At least your video was higher than 280p - a first in the annals of telekinesis.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15783442 - 02/09/12 10:57 AM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Well, due to the objective and limited nature of science, it is not applicable to to mystical phenomena at this point in its evolution.

Now that you've declared this to be true, what evidence of it do you have? I've never heard of anything known to exist that can't be probed by science, so I doubt there's a mystical example of this, but I'd love to hear of one.

Far as I can tell science is only limited to the existing, detectable, universe, and as that includes everything that is known, its not a limitation in any practical sense, as no other method is superior in this regard.

Quote:

Sure it can lead to knowing about most of the physical world, but it doesn't mean that improbable is impossible.

It doesn't mean lots of things, so what? I don't see the relevance here- what is it?

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Well, due to the objective and limited nature of science, it is not applicable to to mystical phenomena at this point in its evolution

Translation: Pseudo-mystical garbage can be recorded on low-fi video, but cannot be viewed directly by someone who knows the tricks.

Sounds more like one of those claims that science can't tell us anythinga bout [insert mystical wish de jure]

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: johnm214]
#15783695 - 02/09/12 12:02 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Well, due to the objective and limited nature of science, it is not applicable to to mystical phenomena at this point in its evolution.

Now that you've declared this to be true, what evidence of it do you have? I've never heard of anything known to exist that can't be probed by science, so I doubt there's a mystical example of this, but I'd love to hear of one.

Far as I can tell science is only limited to the existing, detectable, universe, and as that includes everything that is known, its not a limitation in any practical sense, as no other method is superior in this regard.

Quote:

Sure it can lead to knowing about most of the physical world, but it doesn't mean that improbable is impossible.

It doesn't mean lots of things, so what? I don't see the relevance here- what is it?

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Well, due to the objective and limited nature of science, it is not applicable to to mystical phenomena at this point in its evolution

Translation: Pseudo-mystical garbage can be recorded on low-fi video, but cannot be viewed directly by someone who knows the tricks.

Sounds more like one of those claims that science can't tell us anythinga bout [insert mystical wish de jure]

Exactly, lack of evidence is not evidence against.

That is a fallacy.

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15783702 - 02/09/12 12:03 PM (3 months, 18 days ago)

You guys use a psuedo-science outlook on the matter imo.

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15785082 - 02/09/12 05:20 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

All of you have a Spiritual Experience to base experience + awareness off of, yet you don't even know where to begin.

The secret lies within love. That experience of your mother and or Father or figure gave into you because they love you. The first time you ever kissed a girl and fell madly in love with her. Only to have her leave and break your heart. You were crushed. Do you know why you were crushed?

It was not because of love.

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Icelander
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15785656 - 02/09/12 07:31 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Likely the only way a skeptic can know it is true is if they can do it and experience it in the first person.

Anyone who can't do it and experience something like that in the first person is an ignorant fool if they aren't skeptical imo.

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Icelander
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15785667 - 02/09/12 07:32 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
All of you have a Spiritual Experience to base experience + awareness off of, yet you don't even know where to begin.

The secret lies within love. That experience of your mother and or Father or figure gave into you because they love you. The first time you ever kissed a girl and fell madly in love with her. Only to have her leave and break your heart. You were crushed. Do you know why you were crushed?

It was not because of love.

This is pure nonsense imo. :braindamage:

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Samurai Drifter
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15785995 - 02/09/12 08:54 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Exactly, lack of evidence is not evidence against.

That is a fallacy.

Hang on a sec. Technically, saying "There is no evidence spiritual powers exist, therefore they definitely don't" is indeed an appeal to ignorance fallacy. However, that can be modified in several circumstances. Take, for example, the mundane claim that there is beer in my fridge. Since I have not yet looked, there is no evidence that there is or is not beer in the fridge, so I wouldn't be qualified in making a claim either way.

However, if I actually opened up the fridge and looked through it thoroughly for beer, and found none, wouldn't it be safe to say that there's probably no beer in the fridge? By your reasoning, I wouldn't be able say that, because the lack of evidence for beer does not equal evidence against its existence. Now, I'm sure that doesn't seem right to you, unless you stare at your open, empty fridge thinking "hmm, I can't really prove there's no beer in there, therefore there likely is, so I might as well invite over all my buddies to get drunk."

tl;dr, the appeal to ignorance fallacy only really works if there really has been no research done on the topic. If many, many controlled studies have been done on people who claim to have psychic abilities or other special powers (and they have), and no results have shown those abilities to exist, then it is really akin to looking in the fridge and deciding there's probably not any beer there.

Or, to put it another way, lots of experiments with no results = evidence against the existence of a given phenomenon.

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Samurai Drifter]
#15786097 - 02/09/12 09:20 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

SD, why did you invite me over if you have no beer in your fridge? :confused:

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15786348 - 02/09/12 10:27 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

For instance: can science prove love beyond instinct? We know it exist, yet how is it proven? Experientially it can be proven.

So science acknowledges this. The fallacy is within assuming you know what is impossible. That science knows everything.

You CAN not say that lack of evidence against a topic is evidence against. Why is that hard to understand?

This thread has been locked.

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15786386 - 02/09/12 10:35 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

One thing that has been proven: You are unable to stay on track and provide a single cogent argument.

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the human abstract
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15786404 - 02/09/12 10:42 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

yeah you cannot say that when he is trying to explain something so complex as love. I'm going to make sure my experiences don't block my reasoning when I say that he is right.

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blingbling
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15787148 - 02/10/12 02:59 AM (3 months, 17 days ago)

can science prove love beyond instinct?

yes, it's called attachment. looks like you'll have to take the mystery mobile on to the next hunted house.

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: blingbling]
#15789198 - 02/10/12 03:34 PM (3 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

blingbling said:
can science prove love beyond instinct?

yes, it's called attachment. looks like you'll have to take the mystery mobile on to the next hunted house.

Am I to believe you or your opinion? Because that is what is being insinuated from your post.

Prove it if it is true.

While your at it, why don't you prove that I can see an Image in my head as well. IE, when thinking of a movie, event or picture, you "see" it in your head, yet not with your eyes.

When you dream, you are again seeing things, yet not with your eyes.

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15789233 - 02/10/12 03:40 PM (3 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
One thing that has been proven: You are unable to stay on track and provide a single cogent argument.

That is probably because proving your arguments fallible is beyond your comprehension.

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blingbling
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15791236 - 02/11/12 01:47 AM (3 months, 16 days ago)

Am I to believe you or your opinion? Because that is what is being insinuated from your post.

Prove it if it is true.

i don't have to prove it because hundreds of psychologists already have. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_theory

While your at it, why don't you prove that I can see an Image in my head as well.

i had to dig through an old text book to find this, so be grateful.

The Perky Experiment

Titchener's theories, and, to a very large extent, the introspection based experimental methods he used to test and refine them, have long since fallen into disrepute.[1] However, one series of experiments carried out in Titchener's laboratory, by his student C.W. Perky (1910), has achieved something of a classic, even mythic, status in the literature on imagery. Perky asked her subjects to fixate a point on a screen in front of them and to visualize various objects there, such as a tomato, a book, a leaf, a banana, an orange, or a lemon. As the subjects did this, and unbeknownst to them, a faint patch of color, of an appropriate size and shape, and just above the normal threshold of visibility, was back projected (in soft focus) onto the screen. Apart from on a couple of occasions when the projection apparatus was mishandled, none of Perky's subjects (who ranged from a ten year old child to the trained and experienced introspectors of Titchener's laboratory) ever realized that they were experiencing real percepts; they took what they “saw” on the screen to be entirely the products of their imagination. In fact, however, the projections did influence their experiences: some subjects expressed surprise at finding themselves imagining a banana “upright” rather than the horizontally oriented one they had been trying for; one was surprised to wind up imagining an elm leaf after trying for a maple. On the other hand, purely imaginary details were also reported: One subject could “see” the veins of the leaf; another claimed that the title on the imagined book was readable.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mental-imagery/perky-experiment.html

there are quite a few experiments which lend evidence to the notion that you really can see an image in your head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_image

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: blingbling]
#15791288 - 02/11/12 02:21 AM (3 months, 16 days ago)

Perky's experiement doesn't prove that I see an image in my head. It is proving only that the picture is being remembered on a deeper level than the immediate focus or attention.

The little wikipedia article is hardly any proof of feeling love. That is about "social interactions" it does not prove that I can feel love for you, even though I have most likely never been in your vicinity .

(*Flexes uber spiritual powers*)

Edited by teknix (02/11/12 03:42 AM)

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teknix
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15791381 - 02/11/12 03:45 AM (3 months, 16 days ago)

Young's experiment shows that by determining a point you are collapsing the wave, so stop trying to determine the point and enjoy the wave broheim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

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Jessica Swift
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15791392 - 02/11/12 03:56 AM (3 months, 16 days ago)

People are so discontented with a lack of control in their 'ordinary' lives (e.g. death anxiety, among others) that they search high and low for some strand of evidence that somebody, somewhere is in tune with the supernatural - thus offering validation that there is "more" to reality. Of course there is more than what we can possibly know by the very nature that our knowledge is constantly expanding, change is embedded in the script, and we're just a fraction of the whole.

But our ignorance is more humbling than a spiritual trick. The mystery of living is itself more awe-inspiring than someone else's enlightened sermons or dirty robes. Long beards, village rumors, and pungent oils are the strobe lights of the magician's stage. Fancy!

To seek someone at the top tier of the hierarchy just preserves our evolutionary psychology as primates: a habit of looking for some authority figure who knows more and can do more than you.

Where's my chief?
Where's my rabbi?
Where's my guru?
Where's my ascetic?
Where's my saint?

--------------------

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blingbling
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: Jessica Swift]
#15791682 - 02/11/12 06:59 AM (3 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Perky's experiement doesn't prove that I see an image in my head. It is proving only that the picture is being remembered on a deeper level than the immediate focus or attention.

The little wikipedia article is hardly any proof of feeling love. That is about "social interactions" it does not prove that I can feel love for you, even though I have most likely never been in your vicinity .

(*Flexes uber spiritual powers*)

attachment theory is sound and if you doubt the perky experiments then check out any of Stephen Kosslyn's experiments.

i don't think there is anything i can type to satisfy your questioning so perhaps you will have to hold onto your already manufactured beliefs or live in a state of questioning. there is real science behind my arguments and if that is not enough then i have nothing else to offer.

Quote:

Jessica Swift said:
People are so discontented with a lack of control in their 'ordinary' lives (e.g. death anxiety, among others) that they search high and low for some strand of evidence that somebody, somewhere is in tune with the supernatural - thus offering validation that there is "more" to reality. Of course there is more than what we can possibly know by the very nature that our knowledge is constantly expanding, change is embedded in the script, and we're just a fraction of the whole.

But our ignorance is more humbling than a spiritual trick. The mystery of living is itself more awe-inspiring than someone else's enlightened sermons or dirty robes. Long beards, village rumors, and pungent oils are the strobe lights of the magician's stage. Fancy!

To seek someone at the top tier of the hierarchy just preserves our evolutionary psychology as primates: a habit of looking for some authority figure who knows more and can do more than you.

Where's my chief?
Where's my rabbi?
Where's my guru?
Where's my ascetic?
Where's my saint?

we are in awe and dread of what transcends us. it is what makes life worth living but it leaves an after taste of death. some fly towards the most fantastic ideas to qualm their dread. but they are not living their real life. they are living their imagination of what could be.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: teknix]
#15791859 - 02/11/12 08:19 AM (3 months, 16 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
For instance: can science prove love beyond instinct? We know it exist, yet how is it proven? Experientially it can be proven.

Of course, ask someone if they love someone, ask someone if this is instinct-based, voila.

Or, you could measure their response to scenarios involving the individual and determine their preference and greater attachment, empathy with that person.

All you need to do in these cases is define your class well enough to distinguish them from the population, then see how they differ from the population and test for that.

I should really start keeping track of the number of "science can't analyze this topic" claims. I've yet to see anyone offer a subject that cannot be scientifically probed and yet exists. The weird thing is why people think science is so limited or how they could know of some phenomena without being able to scientificially analyze it- I never understood that part.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: johnm214]
#15809381 - 02/14/12 04:41 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

Okay, serious question. Do you think batman once had actual powers, but then he demonstrated them to science and promptly lost them? Now he is science's bitch.

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VelvetTurkey
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: White Beard]
#15809744 - 02/14/12 05:38 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

DEVELOPMENT OF THE HUMAN MIND: EXPLORING NEW LEVELS OF CONSCIOUSNESS

The expansion of the human brain at the origin of evolution, to three times its previous size, proved to be a more than a necessary expansion for our current functions and abilities. Humans have the ability to learn and discover, but the information we readily know, our instincts, is minute compared to the potential capacities of the human mind. The expansion of the mind, if it is or was more than necessary, presents a possibility of larger amounts of information storage. Being as large as it is, the human brain my hold the capacity for elongated if not eternal survival as long as sustained by its biological resources. Thus, a predetermined capability of the mind may only be limited by the body's physical limitations. In other words, the mind may possess the ability to survive and evolve for three hundred years while the body merely possess the ability to survive only one hundred years.
Now, if you accept the idea of the "crossing over" point from infancy to childhood, a point which when reached, all known information is retired to the subconscious, try to fathom a second point of conversion similar to this. Before the original cross-over point, we are imprinted with little information, presumably instincts or even the supposed collective unconscious. After this point, the information is retired to the subconscious. Has it ever been contemplated that the subconscious was never in existence until this point; that prior to "crossing over" the mind was in one communal state of consciousness? In which case, the subconscious may be the original level of consciousness and the "crossing over" point is a product of the development of a new level of consciousness, what we now accept to be our conscious mind.
Regarding the hypothetical second point of conversion, the now conscious mind may be converted to its new form; the new subconscious. If this second point of conversion exists, there very well may be a third level of consciousness developed, let's call it the hyperconscious. To reiterate, we now possess: the subconscious, the new subconscious or conscious, and the hyperconscious. After this second point of conversion, all acquired information remains in the now new subconscious and the hyperconscious is now driven by all information stored in the lower levels of consciousness, thus allowing for higher levels of cognitive abilities and function. The hyperconscious will come to be accepted as conscious thought.
It is a common misconception that we only use 10% of our brains, however, it is only unknown the use of 90%; we utilize all parts of the brain (maybe not to their full potential) at some point or another, but we are only aware of the function of 10%. Could it simply be that the expansion of the human brain at the origin of evolution was too rapid? I use the phrase too rapid loosely, but it is meant to suggest that the brain evolved much more quickly than the human body and consequently surpassed it. Therefore limiting the abilities of the brain to that of the body and deterring it from reaching its full potential.
I will leave you with one idea to contemplate. If it were possible that your brain possessed the ability to develop a new level of consciousness despite your body's physical limitations, would you choose to explore the new realm?

-DG

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White Beard
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: VelvetTurkey]
#15809754 - 02/14/12 05:40 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

I don't understand. What does this have to do with batman? :confused:

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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: White Beard]
#15809840 - 02/14/12 05:51 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

The Hindus were BIG fans of Atman and Brahman thousands of years before DC Comics.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: VelvetTurkey]
#15809861 - 02/14/12 05:53 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

It is a common misconception that we only use 10% of our brains, however, it is only unknown the use of 90%

A writer using his entire brain would know how to parse this sentence properly.

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Re: Uber spiritual people never display their powers. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#15809935 - 02/14/12 06:07 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

Thou Art Batman :aum:

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