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 johnm214
 
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 14,297
Loc: Americas
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 Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?)   1
#15758818 - 02/04/12 01:12 AM (3 months, 23 days ago) |
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Should a candidate's religious convictions matter to the public? Should Romney's?
I argue yes. I see no reason to treat a candidate's religious views differently from any other views they may have. I wouldn't vote for a candidate that said blacks were evil and cursed by god, and I don't see a difference whether that's a religious view or not.
I find it troubling and difficult to incorporate Romney's claim that he is a Mormon and yet he would not let the Church govern his decisions (however he said it). Either he believes these crazy stories or he doesn't. How do you claim to believe that the word of god is such and such but that you'll disregard god and actually work against him?
The same questions are raised about a number of other candidates who belong to a faith that has clear non-negotiable positions that can be attributed to the candidate by their professed membership in the faith: Obama, Bachman, and so on.
It almost seems as if the public misses what I think is the appropriate message of tolerance: that you shouldn't be irrational and bigoted. This doesn't mean religion is safe from all critical inquiry, only that you shouldn't be xenophobic or irrationally opposed to someone for believing in some stupid nonsense similar to the stupid nonsense you yourself, or those you support, believe.
What do you say?
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 Othyem
Registered: 04/17/09
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: johnm214]
#15758879 - 02/04/12 01:50 AM (3 months, 23 days ago) |
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I personally could care less for the most part. I don't see Romney or most other candidates for that matter pushing there religions crazy bullshit that much. I mean aside from the abortion issue depending on how you look at it. There are obvious exceptions though, like Santorum for instance.
I'm a Paul supporter, do I think he is bat shit crazy in the religion department? Yes. Would it really have a negative effect on his decision making, I don't think so.
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TripsySmurf
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: Othyem]
#15758930 - 02/04/12 02:19 AM (3 months, 23 days ago) |
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I believe it depends on the candidate. If they have a record of voting for liberty it should not matter because they do not believe in forcing any aspects of there religion upon you. Every american president I have heard of claims one religious belief or another.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: Othyem]
#15758996 - 02/04/12 03:28 AM (3 months, 23 days ago) |
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> I personally could care less for the most part.
I think you mean you could not care less. If you could care less, then you currently care at least a bit.
> Should a candidate's religious convictions matter to the public?
It depends. If their religious beliefs influence how they govern, then yes, their religious convictions matter to the public. I'm using "influence how they govern" to mean "force their religious based moral beliefs upon me".
> How do you claim to believe that the word of god is such and such but that you'll disregard god and actually work against him?
Exactly the point I was trying to make. As long as the President accepts that his job is to represent all of the People, and to protect their right to believe whatever they want to believe, then I am happy. When the President decides that he is a tool of god, and that his duty is to shove gods will down my throat, then I get upset. I don't mind the "God Bless America" sound bites, or the like, but I have a real hard time with "drugs need to be illegal because they are a tool of the Devil!" type of crap.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,368
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: Othyem]
#15760484 - 02/04/12 01:16 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Othyem said:
I personally could care less for the most part. I don't see Romney or most other candidates for that matter pushing there religions crazy bullshit that much. I mean aside from the abortion issue depending on how you look at it. There are obvious exceptions though, like Santorum for instance.
I'm a Paul supporter, do I think he is bat shit crazy in the religion department? Yes. Would it really have a negative effect on his decision making, I don't think so.
dont let the haircut fool you ..mitt romney is as much of religious nutfruit as michelle bachmann is...but he doesnt need a devil with this kind of god ..
http://www.alternet.org/news/153945/is_mitt_romney%27s_candidacy_part_of_%27the_eternal_plan%27_of_the_mormon_church_/
Quote:
A multibillion-dollar business empire that includes agribusiness, mining, insurance, electronic and print media, manufacturing, movie production, commercial real estate, defense contracting, retail stores and banking, the Mormon church has unprecedented economic and political power. Despite a solemn stricture against any act or tolerance of gambling, Mormons have been heavily invested and exceptionally influential in the Nevada gaming industry since the great expansion of modern Las Vegas in the 1950s. Valued for their unquestioning loyalty to authority as well as general sobriety — they are prohibited from imbibing in alcohol, tobacco or coffee — Mormons have long been recruited into top positions in government agencies and multinational corporations. They are prominent in such institutions as the CIA, FBI and the national nuclear weapons laboratories, giving the church a sphere of influence unlike any other American religion in the top echelons of government.
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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 zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: Annapurna1] 1
#15760591 - 02/04/12 01:42 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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Anybody who believes in god is a nutcase. I wouldn't bother getting wrapped up too much in the details since they are all absurd in one way or another.
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CaptainAmerica
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: zappaisgod]
#15760676 - 02/04/12 02:02 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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This video sums up what scares me about Romney and is much more important then his religious beliefs it shows him lying and that he does not follow the constitution or believe in liberty. It also shows him running when faced with a tough question. SHAME!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: CaptainAmerica]
#15760716 - 02/04/12 02:10 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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When it comes down to Mittens and Obama who scares you more regarding the Constitution? And no, you do not get to say "neither".
By the way, I'm not wasting ten minutes of my life watching a fucking video from Adam Kokesh. Perhaps you could explain just what you think is improper and provide a link to something written.
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CaptainAmerica
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: zappaisgod]
#15761119 - 02/04/12 03:48 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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I will sum it up for you
Adam - "How important is the constitution in determining your platform?"
Romney - "It's critical, its, its the blueprint of the nation."
Adam - "Governor if the constitution is so important to you will you repeal the patriot act and the military detentions provision of the NDAA?" Spoken loud as hell
Romney runs away
Adam - "Governor if the constitution is so important to you will you repeal the patriot act and the military detentions provision of the NDAA?"
Romney runs away
Fanny May ruined Gingrich for me so I never even gave him a chance. Notice how he just started acting like he is a president going two terms? What a clown.
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CaptainAmerica
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: CaptainAmerica]
#15761129 - 02/04/12 03:51 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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You said Obama and Romney. My bad.
.....
I don't think this is a fair comparison. Obama has already shown his stripes as supreme commander while Romney hasn't had his shot yet. Both are scum bag liars so who knows what Romney is really capable of.
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Not Quite Social
Back to work
Registered: 07/15/10
Posts: 895
Loc: Midwest
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: zappaisgod]
#15761143 - 02/04/12 03:56 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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I respect folks of various beliefs and lack of belief. What I see is politicians who claim a religion and fail horribly and intentionally to adhere to and uphold their professed basic values by employing their office to wage war and serve monied interests and their own financial interests above all others. War (murder) and corruption (greed) are not Mormon or traditional Christian values, just the opposite. So, my answer to your question, John, is the candidates' religions or moral philosophies ought to matter, foremost to them themselves.
[EDIT] Furthermore, when their actions and political postures are in conflict with their professed faith or philosophy, they should be ridiculed for what they are: frauds & hypocrites. The churches should freely & honestly provide this criticism rather than sit on their hands on the sidelines as most are wont to do.
Edited by Not Quite Social (02/04/12 05:26 PM)
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Othyem
Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 657
Last seen: 3 days, 20 hours
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: Seuss]
#15761219 - 02/04/12 04:16 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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No, I'm sure I could care much less.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,931
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: Othyem]
#15761571 - 02/04/12 05:39 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Othyem said:
No, I'm sure I could care much less.
So you're saying that you care a lot.
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,558
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: CaptainAmerica]
#15761698 - 02/04/12 06:13 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
CaptainAmerica said:
I will sum it up for you
Adam - "How important is the constitution in determining your platform?"
Romney - "It's critical, its, its the blueprint of the nation."
Adam - "Governor if the constitution is so important to you will you repeal the patriot act and the military detentions provision of the NDAA?" Spoken loud as hell
Romney runs away
Adam - "Governor if the constitution is so important to you will you repeal the patriot act and the military detentions provision of the NDAA?"
Romney runs away
Fanny May ruined Gingrich for me so I never even gave him a chance. Notice how he just started acting like he is a president going two terms? What a clown.
There is nothing unconstitutional about the Patriot Act. Kokesh is an ignorant asshole.
Obama and the Democrat ilk are entirely responsible for Fannie and Freddie. What I will never forgive the Newt for is attacking Bain Capital. Fuck him he sounds like Obama.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,835
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: johnm214]
#15761726 - 02/04/12 06:18 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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It absolutely does matter to me. Religious beliefs are core and fundamental to believers. Its not a realistic expectation to think that they can and will separate their religious beliefs. Why should they? They dont, and they wont. And that should be judged accordingly.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 34,558
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: DieCommie]
#15761731 - 02/04/12 06:20 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
It absolutely does matter to me. Religious beliefs are core and fundamental to believers. Its not a realistic expectation to think that they can and will separate their religious beliefs. Why should they? They dont, and they wont. And that should be judged accordingly.
So which flying spaghetti monster do you like?
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DieCommie
El Guapo
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Posts: 22,835
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: zappaisgod]
#15761747 - 02/04/12 06:24 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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You mean like which god do I like? None of them really. Being religious bodes against a candidate when I consider them.
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txlibertarian
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: johnm214]
#15762345 - 02/04/12 08:55 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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Of course. His religious affiliation explains why he wants to create a federal amendment on the subject of marriage - something the government really has no business regulating. Federal amendments are great when they suit your religious agenda to overrule everyone, aren't they?
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Not Quite Social
Back to work
Registered: 07/15/10
Posts: 895
Loc: Midwest
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: txlibertarian]
#15762863 - 02/04/12 11:59 PM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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DieCommie,
I'm not trying to be lame, today.  I thought more about your criticism on another thread and in my (now opted out) rating, and it was justifed.
Anyway, if this is not too off topic, you said, "You mean like which god do I like? None of them really." To which I wonder, really? I'm not proselytizing, believe me--I'm agnostic (ha, ha), but I can find nothing with which to fault Jesus, and, in fact, I see a lot of good in his strict followers--if there were such a desciple-politician, I'd vote for him easily over all others (unless the Buddha were running, then I'd have to be more thoughtful about it). Not you, eh? Religion is a negative? Reminds me of Christopher Hitchens.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 14,297
Loc: Americas
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Re: Does a candidate's religion matter? Romney's? (should it?) [Re: Not Quite Social]
#15763064 - 02/05/12 01:47 AM (3 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Anybody who believes in god is a nutcase. I wouldn't bother getting wrapped up too much in the details since they are all absurd in one way or another.
But while it doesn't neccesarily matter if someone has an irrational view, it does matter when they claim to follow a belief system that by definition and edict requires the followers to take certain positions and actions.
For example, some of the more bland protestant churches, say a baptist church, doesn't have much in the way of a belief system relevant to politics that could be inferred on a candidate. Contrast this with a catholic. Someone who tells you they are a catholic is saying that they believe you are going to hell, that contraception is evil, and that it is a duty from god to oppose contraception and all manner of other things, from gay marriage to divorce, to whatnot. In this case, it is not simply an affiliation, but a creed and political position by definition. In fact, a candidate who disregards many of these teachings is actually automatically or procedurally excommunicated, and thus couldn't claim to be a Catholic. This is quite different from the baptist case where saying your one doesn't imply you'd try to jail people for buying a condom, or would violate the constitution to oppose abortion officially.
Mormonism is similar to the Catholic example in that there's a central authority that promulgates official doctrine, and amongst these is the acceptance of Joseph Smith's words as from God, including the position that blacks are cursed by god and descended from a line of sin stretching to antiquity (as well as that a new testament was buried by god in upstate NY, lol). To this extent, the claim to be a faithful mormon does not simply mean they believe dumb things without evidence, it neccesarily provides information about their views. I would like to know how he feels about being a member of an officially racist organization and his duty to god/ Joe Smith.
He sure uses his faith to his benefit in press conferences and speeches, he can't hide behind some misplaced sense of tolerance.
Quote:
Not Quite Social said:
DieCommie,
Anyway, if this is not too off topic, you said, "You mean like which god do I like? None of them really." To which I wonder, really? I'm not proselytizing, believe me--I'm agnostic (ha, ha), but I can find nothing with which to fault Jesus, [...]
How do you justify that view?
A man who came to earth to institute Hellfire and eternal torture for millions of people is one you find no fault with? Does the notion of eternal torture of babies who never learned a language with which to hear the gospel, or the damning of people born in non-christian lands sound acceptable? (The Jews still hold that nonbelievers and non-jews can find favor with god by being just, but Jesus abolished any thought of such a rational judgment)
For all the nastiness of the old testmanet and the Jewish tradition, there was no hell and no torture of the deceased. I suspect your view of Jesus is derived more from propoganda than from an actual reading of the bible.
Some of Jesus's messages of Peace:
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matt 10:34
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. Luke 12:51
Beyond that, Jesus was god (or something like that, depends on which part of the bible you read)- the same god that ordered genocide, rape, and countless misery.
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