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 poke smot!
cognitive consonance
 
Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 4,669
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 Re: Terrarium control system [Re: cyankid]
#1272827 - 02/03/03 03:30 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok... I'll gather up all my receipts and come up with an itemized list of how much I've spent on everything 
For the prototype, 2-outlet with hookups for temperature and humidity sensors, that will go to a computer running Windows that has a parallel port, I can offer a stand-alone box for $60. The humidity sensor is another $30.50, and the temperature plus the sensor cable (6') is $3.
This includes two outlets which can be controlled by the included software. The software will log everything as well. You should be able to use any parallel cable up to 25 feet in length between the computer and the control, as long as it is all 25 pins straight thru (no serial or interlink cables).
PM me if you're interested. I don't have any pre-made (except for the first test unit) and I don't stock the required parts, so expect a wait of 2 weeks between a request and the actual finished product. Please discuss with me how many appliances and sensors you need, and what type of setup you want to achieve.
Keep in mind that I'll have a queue since I can only build so many of these in a given amount of time, until shroomologist has some PCBs made.
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 cyankid
newbie
Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 49
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: poke smot!]
#1273719 - 02/03/03 07:35 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Shit, that 25 foot limit might, well, limit me. Guess I'll have to move the computer. Or maybe I can get an old junk laptop. Any software hardware req's? Count me in, as long as it's under 100 bucks or so for temp/Rh, I'm in.
cyankid
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poke smot!
cognitive consonance
Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 4,669
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: cyankid]
#1275033 - 02/03/03 02:10 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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windows and a parallel port.
future versions -might- be able to incorporate a wireless link, who knows.
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jorneyer
Stranger
Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 12
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: Anno]
#1572539 - 05/23/03 02:26 PM (9 years, 9 days ago) |
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is this thread still active? How goes the design battle? I found a linear humidity sensor with DIGITAL output that might work for this. I could probly put it all together if you are going to do a batch purchase but I cannot burn PICs. BTW I would love to log my CO2 levels.
Edited by jorneyer (05/23/03 02:27 PM)
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poke smot!
cognitive consonance
Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 4,669
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: jorneyer]
#1575182 - 05/24/03 07:10 PM (9 years, 8 days ago) |
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I couldn't find a modulized co2 sensor, only remote monitoring units. I don't know if any of these have outputs or logging capabilities.
It's difficult building the devices and mass-producing them hasn't been on the agenda lately, mainly due to time restrictions...
I've been toying around with a new design and new software, trying to get something finalized and concrete, that works for the situation. Because everyone has such a different setup, different requirements for the PC, and different budgets, what one box can do for one person may be overkill for another. Or, getting a basic box mass-produced would lower the cost per box but might limit expandability.
Having a modulized form incorporating serial data communication between the computer and the device, will make it easier to isolate the relay controls in their own box, the analog input in another box (with the analog portion closest to the sensors), and whatever else is needed to be added. The small expansion units communicate with a "hub" of sorts... So the expandability is potentially limitless.
Writing software to accompany that is a large part of the challenge. Also, having a "hub" adds the possibility of not just using parallel port communication. Adding a UART would allow one to hook the box to a serial port. Somehow, a USB version might be developed.
I'm going through with the new experiment, taking lots of notes and pictures during the process. I will either post the results and how-to's on the forums, and make a link in the automasation FAQ, or just put the plans in the FAQ.
The only problem I have, by putting up detailed plans to build your own box, is that I don't believe there is a large number of people who will actually try to build the system, and some who try will not easily succeed. Already some have found out the troubles of building a unit such as the one I designed. Trying to find the problem can be a bitch. Especially after you soldered together this huge thing, and after all the expenses it isn't doing what you want it to. It's almost not worth the commotion.
I'de like to hang around and help everyone build their own boxes, but each time someone goes on this endeavour I find myself bombarded with questions, and can only feel guilty for making it look so easy - I wish I could help people in a situation, when they have invested lots of time and money into something I designed. Optimally, it should work, but sometimes you'll take on a project too complex for your experience. When put in that situation I feel bad for the frustrated ones, and think that I should spare someone the frustration in the future and not share the designs. Just so I wouldn't be putting myself in the position to be committed to those who attempt to build the box, because in that situation I feel obligated to lend my time to help someone out with this thing.
I put a lot of thought into things. Please excuse me if I let the floodgates go on that one. But if you read all that you might understand that, generous as I am, I can't leave myself committed to helping out everyone at no benefiet to myself. I also can't be held responsible for helping people when they have difficulties with my design.
I'll try to make sense of the source of all this rambling. Then, I'll try to put it into coherent thoughts, and call it a "disclaimer" which is appropriately placed in big letters after the introduction to the plans.
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amyloid
Stranger
Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 980
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: poke smot!]
#1575226 - 05/24/03 07:31 PM (9 years, 8 days ago) |
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im in the process of creating my own automated system, but im hooking mine up to a nice lcd, and im trying to code a menu system, to change temps, humidity, etc... well just thought you should know, your project inspired me; so please share as much as u can =)
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"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
-Al Einstein
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zeronio
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Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: poke smot!]
#1575798 - 05/25/03 12:52 AM (9 years, 8 days ago) |
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I have a question for your FAQ. 
I just got the necessary parts and I'm preparing to assemble it.
I have a question about wiring sensors. I got a SHS A3 humidity probe which is good for measuring high levels of humidity. It changes resistance like this: 75%<30kO, 93%<100kO & 100%>200kO
The temperature probe is KT100 ( http://www.infineon.com/cmc_upload/0/000/012/047/kt_10_.pdf ) and is declared to have 1630 O at 0C, 2000 O at 25C & 2080 at 30C.
How should I wire them to get the maximum resolution from the 8 bit A/D in the ranges needed for mushroom growing (RH 75%-100% & Temp 0C-30C)?
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poke smot!
cognitive consonance
Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 4,669
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: zeronio]
#1576551 - 05/25/03 02:39 PM (9 years, 7 days ago) |
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Ok... A few things. amyloid, I've been working on a similar idea, where the user can specify how the device is designed. The new componentalized system incorporates a remote ADC unit, which communicates serially with the computer via. shift registers.
  
The pictured analog box has a 25' cord. The cord goes to the "hub" which incorporates binding posts for a source 12v, off the computer. A 7805 converts the 12 to 5 volts, for logic power.
8 conductor cat5 cable was used between the hub and the analog aquisition system. Connections as follows: Ground, +5v, serial in data, serial in clock, serial in register (to latch into the octal flipflops), serial out data, serial out clock, and serial out data ready (Source is ADC EOC pin, also connected to shift register 74hc165 shift/-load pin).
Through this configuration, the input serial shift register will latch values into the octal flipflop. The output Q pins on these flipflops are connected to the ADC's start, Address A through D multiplexer settings, address latch enable, and clock.
A test configuration, I made a simple board that incorporated a parallel port connector, and the 12v binding posts as well as the mentioned voltage regulator. The 8 analog unit's wires were connected to ground and +5v, as well as the 2 respective Status (input) pins and 4 Data (output) pins.
 
The test input program was quickly coded to shift the commands into the analog to digital converter, and feed the data back out of it and print it on screen.
In the image above showing the finished ADC unit, you will see three sensors hooked up: #1 to ground, #2 to a voltage divider (equals 2.5v), and #3 to +5 volts. In the pictured program, the corresponding inputs read 0, 127, and 255. Success!
Now, the current box will be modified by removing the logic board, applying a new relay driver with a shift register and octal flipflop for inputs, and new bottom for the box without the analog portion. Bingo, a compartmentalized system.
More brainstorming... The hub will be the recipient of serial shift registers, in and out. These digital I/O pins will only consume a minimal amount of pins on the parallel port. Perhaps they could be interfaced to a UART for serial communication. In any case, the serial registers can be expanded easily, through daisy chaining them, to achieve any number of digital input and output lines. With this, any number of expansion units could be added on.
The trick is to write very versatile software to control and interface with this design. The user has to specify which devices are connected to which pins, in whatever configuration. A key point in coding dynamic software in this way, is being able to incorporate systems-within-systems, for example using a serial shift register to send out serial data on a few of it's pins. This serial data could go to another shift register. The program has to be able to realize, "This ADC's pins are connected in this manner", even if it means they are connected to a serial shift register and need to be accessed via. a serial carrier.
I hope this got the juices flowing for everyone 
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poke smot!
cognitive consonance
Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 4,669
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: poke smot!]
#1576554 - 05/25/03 02:44 PM (9 years, 7 days ago) |
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Also, zeronio, I am not familiar with that humidity sensor. The ADC setup I use, incorporates fixed reference voltages, so the scale is from 0 to +5vdc on the sensors. This is good for the specific ADC I'm working with.
The temperature sensors are cake, since cheap thermistors can be used in a voltage divider for fairly accurate readings.
I prefer the HM1500 because the range of output voltages, over the range of one to 99 percent relative humidity, correspond to between 0 and about 4.2 volts. This gives a very good range, and the HM1500 is powered by a 5v source.
I wouldn't be sure how to interface that sensor you have. It depends on how it outputs the readings. The best thing would be a voltage output within the range we want. Workable still, if it varies in capacitance or resistance for readings, something could be worked out as well.
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Rustik
Where am I?
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 289
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: poke smot!]
#1576732 - 05/25/03 04:53 PM (9 years, 7 days ago) |
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wow poke, you are quite the tinkerer here.
All in all, awesome setup!
So, I'm right in assuming your program also uses the input from the temp/RH gauges to turn humidifiers/heaters on and off as needed?
THAT would be the shit. 
Next you would have to add a small fan and a CO2 sensor to regulate CO2 levels. This would work so much better than trying to do it manually, and IMO you would get some badass results in a chamber run by your device.
If you are ever planning on selling any, let me know!
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The blue... the blue!!!
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40oz
Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 29,799
Loc: Sandy Eggo. Ca.
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: Rustik]
#1577905 - 05/26/03 06:21 AM (9 years, 7 days ago) |
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i dont know if anyone covered this (it would take me dayz to read this entire thread anda good nights sleep to try and 'think' i understand the logistics of this neat little invention  )
but as far as the software part maybe you could add selectable preset
growing parameters for different species..
for example: ([]<--brackets denote givin preset/drop menu boxes]
[what species] in which [phase](spawn run,post casing/pre-pinning, primordia formation,cropping,etc)
each phase has pre-programmed parameters...let it take it from there...
kinda like set n forget...
thats my insomniated 2 cents
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tiny_rabid_birds said:
"your avatar is dirty."
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poke smot!
cognitive consonance
Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 4,669
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: 40oz]
#1578136 - 05/26/03 09:49 AM (9 years, 7 days ago) |
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Once again I am trying to balance between functionality and expandability. Why would I make a program that has hardcoded settings for mushroom growers, when I could make an all-around program that could be used by mycologists, as well as horticulturalists, and anything else you may figure out.
That type of thing could be added, theoretically, but if I did, I would make it so the presets could be added/changed/deleted, and exported/imported to a file, etc. to allow for the sharing of presets. Not even sure that is necessary though.
Rustik had said something to me about wanting a co2 sensor, and I gave my thoughts on that which I'll share with you now.
I haven't found any component-form co2 sensors, like the humidity sensor I have. None of the co2 sensor units I have found would easily interface to this device.
But why would I turn on circulation fans when the co2 goes above a certain level, when I can leave them on all the time? By having them go on and off according to co2 level, you would create an up/down cycle that would be inconsistent. The goal of my box is to create a very consistent environment.
The co2 sensor might be good for logging purposes, should you get it hooked up. But where would you place it? Co2 levels certainly would vary according to how much air circulation the area receives; Also by how much co2 is given off by the shit you grow. And co2 will be higher nearer to the bottom of an enclosure. You couldn't get an accurate all-around reading of the chamber unless the whole area received continual air flow (once again).
Hope I answered a few things effectively there
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jorneyer
Stranger
Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 12
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: poke smot!]
#1584495 - 05/28/03 09:06 AM (9 years, 5 days ago) |
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A few thoughts so far;
I do not see why you need the computer to be involved at all. It makes the project beyond the scope of most potential users. I can see why you would want to sell them software, but that is two things, not one thing. The logging is a great feature, to be sure, but I think it is unecessarily complicated. To say "Just code it yourself" is fine but I am not in tech school anymore, with all the resources that go along with that. I cannot burn a PIC for that reason.
What I see happening here is a very simple {to use} system. You plug it into the wall, and plug your humidifier and heater into it. It would be up to the user to decide how big of a heater etc to use, based on his application.
Take linear sensor voltage and run it into the A/D. May want to op-amp first, not sure. Run a reference voltage to be user-adjustable for tuning, with two sets of LED displays. When they don't match, the humid. kicks in. All parts are off-the-shelf. That way plans and lists can be made available to any shroom grower, if they want to build one.
Does anyone know a good free circuit design software we could use for collaboration? I used to use electronic workbench, or PSpice might be good too.
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shroomologist
member
Registered: 09/29/02
Posts: 161
Loc: SouthEastern US
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: jorneyer]
#1585626 - 05/28/03 03:25 PM (9 years, 4 days ago) |
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I thought this thread died.
I recently got a little gadget for home-robotics.
Its called SV203, its from Pontech
Its basically a pic, with an A/D converter, used to control servos. But its able to set pins as high or low instead of using a PWM signal. SO basically, it has 5 a/d ports, 8 servo outputs/inputs 2 unused input outputs....and its all done serially.
Right now i have a few programs for IR distance sensors/servos and a temp sensor. I have some H-bridges i'm going to be using as well for some possible Peltier cooling and heating.
I programmed it using Hotpaw basic for the palm pilot. Its standalong, and you can LOG whatever your data is, to a memory card.
SO far, i set it to read values from the IR sensors, log them to the memory card, and control a motor's speed depending on the distance (which is what you would literally do if you had a humidity or temp sensor and a heater/cooler)
Best of all, its around $60 and you can build it even cheaper. Its not hard, just takes a little coding. There is a standalone (onboard EEprom) that lets you run a program off it, and use an LCD etc, so it doesn't need to be tethered to the computer.
let me know if anyone is interested.
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shroomologist
member
Registered: 09/29/02
Posts: 161
Loc: SouthEastern US
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oh, zeronio
can you link the Humidity sensor? i'm interested!
also, i found peltier modules for $5 a piece with heatsink
here's a rundown of cost that i've seen thus far for my design:
$5-$10 - pic processorwith onboard a/d
$2 - temp sensor
$10 for two - peltier module for cooling and heating
free - fan
free - old computer power supply
$20 - high power fets to regulate PWM signal to peltler junction for incremental heating and cooling, and also to the fan motor
$10 - LCD
a relay per humidifier
add another 10 or so for wire, some buttons for navigation, enclosure..etc
code is easily done, i have most of it already. It would be serial so things could be logged, or run alone via LCD and buttons.
it would most definately be under $100 including software, but also the serial interface code so you could code it as you want on any platform with a serial connection.
i also found SBC Pentium 200MHz computers for $25 if thats also an option, onboard ethernet, IDE controller, LCD controller, serial, parallel, VGA port, keyboard, mouse...think about the standalone system that you could build! *drools*
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jorneyer
Stranger
Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 12
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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as far as i can tell, the best humid. sensor type would be linear. Does anybody know the part number for an A/D that will accept this input? In the 0-4v range. I am using the latest free electronic workbench software but can't find how to search for specific parts. If anybody wants to burn a PIC for me that is cool too.
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poke smot!
cognitive consonance
Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 4,669
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: jorneyer]
#1586587 - 05/28/03 08:34 PM (9 years, 4 days ago) |
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Very good point jorneyer. The device I designed was for my situation, since I wanted the complexity and customizability of the computer. Posting about the box just brings a larger audience and desire for change.
I'm fine with how I have the setup. I specifially set aside a PC and LCD panel for the control system. However, this may not be in the agendas of other people.
Removing the PC is somewhat feasable although adds a little more complexity to it all. Personally, I like the dynamics of my own logging system. I also like being able to say "If the humidity is less than 90%, turn on the relay, else turn it off". I like the precision of a typed in number.
Having a system with much less user interface, one must fine tune the system. If you wanted to monitor the humidity, you would need two sensors - one for the box, and one for you to get a reading on. With the way I designed my box, it would be difficult to add a small display to give information about the device.
For those looking to have a unit without the computer, I suppose a PIC would be all in line. You could tie the humidity sensor to an analog input, as well as a potentiometer. The PIC simply has to evaluate the two values input, also taking into account a switch specifying the operand (less than, greater than, may not be necessary since humidity goes one way, but some people need to heat and cool).
Having the PIC serially shift status information into a 40x2 LCD would be simple as well. I assume you could have the PIC give readouts for the sensors, as well as the POT settings.
Writing the software behind it, however, wouldn't be my thing. I haven't worked with PIC assembler in a while, and writing a control system in this language would probably be easier for someone with more experience than I with the named chipset.
I suppose another reason for venturing into the PC interface was the simplicity of the device (to me), as well as the customizability of the controller as I have considerable programming experience with things of that sort.
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zeronio
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Registered: 10/16/01
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I cannot link directly to the page for my sensor. Go to www.conrad.de, enter SHS A3 in the "suche" field and press "go". After the find press "anzeigen".
It's non-linear (logaritmic) resistance sensor. It's working voltage is 0.8V. Any ideas on how to interface it?
The linearity is not a problem. If I understand it right I'll get more accurate readings in the right range (RH 75-100%). Of course I'll have to do some software signal conditioning.
Quote:
also, i found peltier modules for $5 a piece with heatsink
Wow, that's really cheap. What's their power?
If you're going to use the same element for heating and cooling it would be nice to see the circuit that does the switching! 
I got an old freezing cabinet that still works so for now I won't play with peltiers. However they would be great for smaller high-tech pods.
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poke smot!
cognitive consonance
Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 4,669
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: zeronio]
#1588186 - 05/29/03 06:57 AM (9 years, 4 days ago) |
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Ok.. First, I use the HM1500 which takes 5v and outputs a linear value, between 0 and 4.2 volts according to 1 to 99% RH. Also, I use the ADC0808 (8 inputs) or the ADC0817 (16 inputs) to read analog values. It operates at 5v. My ref- is ground, ref+ is 5v.
I'm not sure what you mean by "working voltage". If your humidity sensor varies in resistance according to the humidity, I would use a voltage divider similar to that used in my temperature sensors.
Tie one side of your variable (rh/temp) sensor to the reference voltage (+5). The other side goes to the sensor input, as well as one side of an equivalence resistor. The other side of that Re goes to ground.
In the case of a temperature sensor that is rated 10kohms at 25 C, it would be logical to use an equivalent 10k resistor. That way, at 25 degrees C, the voltage divider would be in the middle (2.5v).
Let me know if you need equations to calculate the variable resistor's resistance given the voltage. I also have an equation to calculate the temperature read by a thermistor, given the thermistor's calibration temperature and beta value.
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jorneyer
Stranger
Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 12
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Terrarium control system [Re: poke smot!]
#1588268 - 05/29/03 07:57 AM (9 years, 4 days ago) |
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Would you want to have a pot on the Vref for drift adjustment? From the literature it seems that humidity sensors 'drift' after a while.
Here is another issue- when does the humidity turn off? The humiid [H] in the chamber drops, so the [H]er kicks in. With my [H]er, it puts out a real blast of fog. This boosts [H] too high, so it shuts off. I see a sort of oversaturation effect happening.
We have set a point, not a range.
Poke, yours is up and running, do you observe this effect? It is probably nothing.
I would like to see this thing workable like a heathkit... just connect the dots with a soldering iron.
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