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I don't think it's right to rule out the possibility of the after life.

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tempusvita said:
It isn't like anything.

I don't mean it's like something but different from everything else.  I mean there is nothing to describe, nothing to imagine.  There is no experiential part to it.  It's like imagining what its like to be a rock.


There is nothing to describe, look at any inanimate object.  That's what its like.

As harrowing as it is, we have a single life span.  Maybe 20 years, maybe 50.  We have a limited time which means a limited amount of things we can "do", we have to chose the things that are not merely worth doing, but MOST worth doing.


I'm posting this because people in another thread were talking about what a great experience death would be, or what a release it would be.  I am afraid thats not the case...It's not a release, because there is nothing to release once it happens.. It's not like your going to be able to exhale after you die.  If you were being crushed by adversity, by hardships in life, and die before they are overcome, I am sorry but death is no escape.  If you kill yourself, you are not released from events.  Time merely ends in the middle of your hardship.

If your not happy with your life, do something radical to follow your heart.  You really got nothing to lose!  But as a rule, don't ever harm others in your pursuit, or you consent to being harmed yourself.

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You have no more idea or real assurance you know what you are talking about to any greater extent than all those "other" people.

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Icelander said:

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tempusvita said:
It isn't like anything.

I don't mean it's like something but different from everything else.  I mean there is nothing to describe, nothing to imagine.  There is no experiential part to it.  It's like imagining what its like to be a rock.


There is nothing to describe, look at any inanimate object.  That's what its like.

As harrowing as it is, we have a single life span.  Maybe 20 years, maybe 50.  We have a limited time which means a limited amount of things we can "do", we have to chose the things that are not merely worth doing, but MOST worth doing.


I'm posting this because people in another thread were talking about what a great experience death would be, or what a release it would be.  I am afraid thats not the case...It's not a release, because there is nothing to release once it happens.. It's not like your going to be able to exhale after you die.  If you were being crushed by adversity, by hardships in life, and die before they are overcome, I am sorry but death is no escape.  If you kill yourself, you are not released from events.  Time merely ends in the middle of your hardship.

If your not happy with your life, do something radical to follow your heart.  You really got nothing to lose!  But as a rule, don't ever harm others in your pursuit, or you consent to being harmed yourself.

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You have no more idea or real assurance you know what you are talking about to any greater extent than all those "other" people.

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Humans like to believe they are smart. We probably know 1 billionth of what reality really fuckin is
Science is our best bet but science doesn't explain or isn't advanced enough to explain a variety of things
You don't know what death truely is till you die

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VisionaryFlicker said:
Thanks for sharing your based on nothing wisdom with us, OP.

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tempusvita said:

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VisionaryFlicker said:
Thanks for sharing your based on nothing wisdom with us, OP.

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It's not based on nothing.  Its based on the works of people like Marvin Minsky and Carl Sagan...  I mean what scientific evidence is there for an after life, do you know of anything?[/quot
Please explain how one would do a scientific experiment on the existence of an afterlife.

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tempusvita said:
It isn't like anything.

I don't mean it's like something but different from everything else.  I mean there is nothing to describe, nothing to imagine.  There is no experiential part to it.  It's like imagining what its like to be a rock.


There is nothing to describe, look at any inanimate object.  That's what its like.

As harrowing as it is, we have a single life span.  Maybe 20 years, maybe 50.  We have a limited time which means a limited amount of things we can "do", we have to chose the things that are not merely worth doing, but MOST worth doing.


I'm posting this because people in another thread were talking about what a great experience death would be, or what a release it would be.  I am afraid thats not the case...It's not a release, because there is nothing to release once it happens.. It's not like your going to be able to exhale after you die.  If you were being crushed by adversity, by hardships in life, and die before they are overcome, I am sorry but death is no escape.  If you kill yourself, you are not released from events.  Time merely ends in the middle of your hardship.

If your not happy with your life, do something radical to follow your heart.  You really got nothing to lose!  But as a rule, don't ever harm others in your pursuit, or you consent to being harmed yourself.

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Please explain how one would do a scientific experiment on the existence of an afterlife.

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Kinko said:

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tempusvita said:
It isn't like anything.

I don't mean it's like something but different from everything else.  I mean there is nothing to describe, nothing to imagine.  There is no experiential part to it.  It's like imagining what its like to be a rock.


There is nothing to describe, look at any inanimate object.  That's what its like.

As harrowing as it is, we have a single life span.  Maybe 20 years, maybe 50.  We have a limited time which means a limited amount of things we can "do", we have to chose the things that are not merely worth doing, but MOST worth doing.


I'm posting this because people in another thread were talking about what a great experience death would be, or what a release it would be.  I am afraid thats not the case...It's not a release, because there is nothing to release once it happens.. It's not like your going to be able to exhale after you die.  If you were being crushed by adversity, by hardships in life, and die before they are overcome, I am sorry but death is no escape.  If you kill yourself, you are not released from events.  Time merely ends in the middle of your hardship.

If your not happy with your life, do something radical to follow your heart.  You really got nothing to lose!  But as a rule, don't ever harm others in your pursuit, or you consent to being harmed yourself.

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this post brought tears to my eyes and i dont even remember the last time i actually cried.

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Kinko said:
i agree with everything you just said when we think about death we only think of human death , if only we thought of it like we do when a cow dies or perhaps a dog , you might think that you are special but in the end its all speculation the fear of the unknown. people need something to believe in and we see proof of that here. there is no afterlife there is no heaven no hell and def no souls in the end none of it matters so spin the dices and play the game you have nothing to lose

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God made mud. God got lonesome. So God said to some of the mud, "Sit up!" "See all I've made," said God, "the hills, the sea, the sky, the stars." And I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around. Lucky me, lucky mud. I, mud, sat up and saw what a nice job God had done. Nice going, God. Nobody but you could have done it, God! I certainly couldn't have. I feel very unimportant compared to You. The only way I can feel the least bit important is to think of all the mud that didn't even get to sit up and look around. I got so much, and most mud got so little. Thank you for the honor! Now mud lies down again and goes to sleep. What memories for mud to have! What interesting other kinds of sitting-up mud I met! I loved everything I saw! Good night.

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I would agree that there is no evidence for an afterlife of any sort; however, we can make some interesting scientific inquiries about the process of dying. I am referring to immediately before brain activity ceases. There is evidence proposed that DMT is released from the pineal gland at death, a large amount. This would mean at death you would be having a very powerful psychedelic experience. You would also be aware that death is approaching at this time. So the psychedelic conceptualization would frame this experience, which gives death a more reasonable grasping rather than the normal fear people seem to have about it. Furthermore, the contents of your subconscious will definitely have an impact. So if you were content and fulfilled in life you will have a vision of paradise and splendor. If you hated life and were miserable, the trip will be punishing. This is why people that have near death experiences think they are seeing heaven or hell, when really it is just their self analysis during a DMT trip. At death, neuronal activity will begin to slow down, so also the time distortion introduced during DMT will be exponentiated. Maybe even making the process of death seem like an eternal paradise or eternal damnation before finally the brain ceases to work and all goes black before the person can think that it is over. Doesnt sound bad to me at all because I love my life

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tempusvita said:

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Kinko said:
i agree with everything you just said when we think about death we only think of human death , if only we thought of it like we do when a cow dies or perhaps a dog , you might think that you are special but in the end its all speculation the fear of the unknown. people need something to believe in and we see proof of that here. there is no afterlife there is no heaven no hell and def no souls in the end none of it matters so spin the dices and play the game you have nothing to lose

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It's not so terrible, Kurt Vonnegut has some fantastic words on the whole issue.

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God made mud. God got lonesome. So God said to some of the mud, "Sit up!" "See all I've made," said God, "the hills, the sea, the sky, the stars." And I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around. Lucky me, lucky mud. I, mud, sat up and saw what a nice job God had done. Nice going, God. Nobody but you could have done it, God! I certainly couldn't have. I feel very unimportant compared to You. The only way I can feel the least bit important is to think of all the mud that didn't even get to sit up and look around. I got so much, and most mud got so little. Thank you for the honor! Now mud lies down again and goes to sleep. What memories for mud to have! What interesting other kinds of sitting-up mud I met! I loved everything I saw! Good night.

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Remember, none of it matters cosmically.  There is no reason for your life.

But your not like a computer.  You have a emotions, you can love, you can feel pain. 

These things, this spiritual side of Human life adds something against that meaninglessness. 

Somethings are worth experiencing and some are not.  Worth is meaning.

Try falling in love with someone, and then tell me life is meaningless.  It is cosmically.  But to an individual?  No.  The window for meaning is just much smaller, and much more for itself.

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tempusvita said:

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Icelander said:

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tempusvita said:
It isn't like anything.

I don't mean it's like something but different from everything else.  I mean there is nothing to describe, nothing to imagine.  There is no experiential part to it.  It's like imagining what its like to be a rock.


There is nothing to describe, look at any inanimate object.  That's what its like.

As harrowing as it is, we have a single life span.  Maybe 20 years, maybe 50.  We have a limited time which means a limited amount of things we can "do", we have to chose the things that are not merely worth doing, but MOST worth doing.


I'm posting this because people in another thread were talking about what a great experience death would be, or what a release it would be.  I am afraid thats not the case...It's not a release, because there is nothing to release once it happens.. It's not like your going to be able to exhale after you die.  If you were being crushed by adversity, by hardships in life, and die before they are overcome, I am sorry but death is no escape.  If you kill yourself, you are not released from events.  Time merely ends in the middle of your hardship.

If your not happy with your life, do something radical to follow your heart.  You really got nothing to lose!  But as a rule, don't ever harm others in your pursuit, or you consent to being harmed yourself.

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You have no more idea or real assurance you know what you are talking about to any greater extent than all those "other" people.

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I think thats a mistake.  A post modernistic mistake.  Not all opinions are equally valid or invalid, to think like that is a cardinal mistake.  Those other peoples beliefs are unscientific.  I'm not saying its a fact, but that the science points nearly conclusively that we are merely physical.

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tempusvita said:


Yeah thats an interesting theory.  But what happens if someone dies by getting his head blown to peices?  Or something similar?

That means only some people will experience this heaven/hell trip.

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tempusvita said:
Well I mean phisical as in Physicalism.  There is not likely anything immaterial about us.  That's the direction science points...

And if you disagree with the methods of science, like Carl Sagan said, your in the dark..  Pure science is a candle in the dark.

A lot of people are distrustful of science, but really, how can anyone disagree with the scientific method?

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The Influence said:
As Icelander and others have pointed out OP; we don't know squat about what happens at death. I would like to know what evidence you have that leads you to have so much faith in your beliefs? I have finally let go of my Christian beliefs, I have no hate towards other Christians but there is to many fallacies to believe whole-heartedly in the Bibles story which boils down to be good so you have it good in the afterlife.

So after slowly losing my faith in Christianity, I started to question what death is and what happens after. I still lean towards there being a creator (not the same God in the Bible) and more likely than not an afterlife. There are many phenomenon that show the possibilities of an afterlife. Take the near-death experience as someone else pointed out. The only thing wrong with the other posters theory of a large amount of DMT being released at the time of death is that when the people are brought back they all of a sudden turn off the DMT affecting their brain and are lucid? People using ayahuasca trip for hours and hours, but people brought back have been lucid within minutes. If it was so easy to stop such a trip, I think the trip reports forum wouldn't be so full of bad trip reports.

Also I brought this up in another thread; recently my sisters ex-boyfriend was shot in the neck. By the time medical help arrived he had no pulse. They did CPR and got a pulse, he was airlifted to a hospital where after testing the doctors determined that he had no brain activity and never would. Yet his body was being kept alive by a machine. Every organ doing it's thing.....except the brain. If consciousness was "physical" why did the brain not turn back on when the rest of the body did?

I'm not claiming any proof of an afterlife with the above post, but it's food for thought.

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I would like to know what evidence you have that leads you to have so much faith in your beliefs?

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The Influence said:
I have no evidence, and neither do you thats the point. But apparently your not getting that. I have my ideas as to if there is an afterlife, and I listed them up above, but you skipped over all that and quoted one sentence of mine

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Icelander said:

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tempusvita said:
It isn't like anything.

I don't mean it's like something but different from everything else.  I mean there is nothing to describe, nothing to imagine.  There is no experiential part to it.  It's like imagining what its like to be a rock.


There is nothing to describe, look at any inanimate object.  That's what its like.

As harrowing as it is, we have a single life span.  Maybe 20 years, maybe 50.  We have a limited time which means a limited amount of things we can "do", we have to chose the things that are not merely worth doing, but MOST worth doing.


I'm posting this because people in another thread were talking about what a great experience death would be, or what a release it would be.  I am afraid thats not the case...It's not a release, because there is nothing to release once it happens.. It's not like your going to be able to exhale after you die.  If you were being crushed by adversity, by hardships in life, and die before they are overcome, I am sorry but death is no escape.  If you kill yourself, you are not released from events.  Time merely ends in the middle of your hardship.

If your not happy with your life, do something radical to follow your heart.  You really got nothing to lose!  But as a rule, don't ever harm others in your pursuit, or you consent to being harmed yourself.

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You have no more idea or real assurance you know what you are talking about to any greater extent than all those "other" people.

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tempusvita said:


No I read it all.  For the DMT thing, who cares, you can be tripping on DMT hard in the middle of REM sleep, and be woken up and be immediatly lucid.

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tempusvita said:

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The Influence said:
I have no evidence, and neither do you thats the point. But apparently your not getting that. I have my ideas as to if there is an afterlife, and I listed them up above, but you skipped over all that and quoted one sentence of mine

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No I read it all.  For the DMT thing, who cares, you can be tripping on DMT hard in the middle of REM sleep, and be woken up and be immediately lucid.

And for the brain thing, the brain dies after a short time without oxygen.  Other organs can last longer.  You coulda asked the doctor that.


And the thing is I do have evidence.  Not of an actual after life, but because what we are made of.  There is no reason to believe their is an afterlife if religion had never professed it..All the EVIDENCE points toward us being only material, and chemical.  There's most likely nothing immaterial about us.  Read the Time article.  Read Marvin Minsky's studies on the society of mind.

No one has outstanding proof.  But everything falsifiable around actually experiencing death points in the direction that there is no after life.

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No the amounts of DMT believed to be released during a dream are little. The other poster said large amounts of DMT are released during NDEs so his/your point is mute.

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It's this way because "science" tells us so.

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Science is a methodology, not a belief nor a dogma. Perhaps if you had paid attention in school.

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OrgoneConclusion said:

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It's this way because "science" tells us so.

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Science is a methodology, not a belief nor a dogma. Perhaps if you had paid attention in school.

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tempusvita said:

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No the amounts of DMT believed to be released during a dream are little. The other poster said large amounts of DMT are released during NDEs so his/your point is mute.

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define large amount.  and then give me the numbers on the amount released during the deepest REM recorded.

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, and near death experiences are not the eyewitness reports of a soul parting company from the body but symptoms of oxygen starvation in the eyes and brain. In September, a team of Swiss neuro scientists reported that they could turn out-of-body experiences on and off by stimulating the part of the brain in which vision and bodily sensations converge.

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Death IS the beginning of the mystery.
And there is a huge mystery to what it is like 'to die'.

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Ill-bird said:
Please state what authority science is? In this never ending universe science knows nothing!!

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tempusvita said:
But its not!  Had you been born in an atheist society, and you were told when you die that thats it, from when you were very little, you would look at the evidence for a "soul" in living people and find its unsubstantiated!

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  Just like every single person that is born into a religious society find those beliefs substantiated and atheism unsubstantiated? You seem to be drawing a conncection where there is none. Someone raised in a atheist society is just as likely to rebel against their parent's extreme absolutist beliefs as a catholic is.

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That everything about us can be sourced in the brain!  And if I were to destroy that brain, the source of your conciousness, you would no longer have what you call a soul

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Tell me, where in the brain does consciousness occur? I'm just curious. We know everything else about the brain we should know this, yes? You don't know that and neither do neuroscientists. We are realizing consciousness is so much more mysterious than we previously thought...We don't even know the physical mechanisms of its action..much less how it is conglomerated and integrated to our brain. 

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^ THAT is why scientist don't believe in an afterlife.  Sure it COULD be there.  Just like how there could be a god.  But its weird to preference that over the more likely opposite...

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Ya, I'm agnostic..There COULD be anything (because we just don't know!) and your statement of absolute certainty of atheism is as ignorant and misguided as fanatical religions. Don't get me wrong I am no nihilist. Although I am an agnostic (as I can never KNOW, atleast not yet) I do have metaphysical beliefs and theories. I guess I'm one of those weird people that thinks the evidence, IME, points towards the existence of GOD or some organizer behind this beautiful mystery- and also belief in a soul. I have come to this conclusion from science (learning about quantum mechanics and other mysterious aspects of physics), from personal experiences on psychedelics,, and from reading those much smarter than I. The more we find out (on the quantum level and the super-macro level) the more we realize we don't know shit.  I agree science is a great tool for investigating our ways forward (its the best we have right now), but people's faith in science is just as flawed in many ways (well, not nearly as many) as the undying fanatic faith of "true belivers" of [insert religion here].

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I mean just the fact that every night you sleep, your no longer conscious, I mean HELLO?  Doesn't that set any alarms off for an always existing conscious?

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Actually, no, the strangeness and fantastical travel that can occur in dreams is just one more piece that tells me there is so much more to this world than we even know. Oh and I mean HELLO? didn't you learn its you're and not your in 5th grade? (sorry just had to throw back your arrogant tone for a min..doesn't sound very nice does it?)

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If you were born atheist (which I myself am not), you would not have any questions about this.

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Really? Not an atheist? Your above posts certainly posited either a nihilistic or atheistic approach to life, and I characterized you as such, above. I guess you did say anything could be possible...I guess you are just what one might call a subscriber to the religion of science.

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Every single person who argues for the soul in this thread, every single one, was religious at one point.

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??? That's a weak generalization. I used to be an atheist for about 19 years til I got shown some shit on some heavy psys and realized I DON'T KNOW SHIT.  Have you ever smoked DMT? What is it that is leaving your body? Or is it just a hallucination? or is it impossible to know?

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Death IS the beginning of the mystery.
And there is a huge mystery to what it is like 'to die'.

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Nonsense!

Read my OP.  That's the most REASONABLE understanding of death that the discoveries of science lead to.  It is the MOST right because how it came along, the methods of science. 

It's really important people embrace that.  It's hard to waste your life carelessly when you know its literally the only thing you have.

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The MOST reasonable among a bunch of weak argument doesn't say much. Also- that's assuming your OP is the most well reasoned understanding of death  ...you should do some more reading...other people have some interesting view points on the same issue. SCIENCE still cannot figure out consciousness which, to me, is the 'soul' possibly...Once we figure out how consciousness works on the quantum level things are going to get very interesting. Don't get me wrong I am a science guy- I also study various ancient and contemporary spiritual and philosphical texts. I amalgamate this various knowledge into my understanding of the universe. You seem far too faithful on one route of discovery. Its funny how alike the fanaticism of science is to the fanaticism of religion.

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soldatheero said:
People just gobble up anything the "scientific community" tells them without critical thought. It takes one scientists opinion or statement that NDE's and OBE's are the product of that or this aspect of the brain and people take it to be fact because thats how much they respect so called scientists. Instead of thinking about how their opinions could be flawed they just jump all ove them because thats how much weight "science" has to them. As pointed out it's not even real science, anyone that understands science doesn't say "science proved this" or "science says that" because they know science does prove it disproves.

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Tell me, where in the brain does consciousness occur? I'm just curious. We know everything else about the brain we should know this, yes? You don't know that and neither do neuroscientists. We are realizing consciousness is so much more mysterious than we previously thought...We don't even know the physical mechanisms of its action..much less how it is conglomerated and integrated to our brain. 

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Actually, no, the strangeness and fantastical travel that can occur in dreams is just one more piece that tells me there is so much more to this world than we even know. Oh and I mean HELLO? didn't you learn its you're and not your in 5th grade? (sorry just had to throw back your arrogant tone for a min..doesn't sound very nice does it?)

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Really? Not an atheist? Your above posts certainly posited either a nihilistic or atheistic approach to life, and I characterized you as such, above. I guess you did say anything could be possible...I guess you are just what one might call a subscriber to the religion of science.

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???  That's a weak generalization. I used to be an atheist for about 19 years til I got shown some shit on some heavy psys and realized I DON'T KNOW SHIT.  Have you ever smoked DMT? What is it that is leaving your body? Or is it just a hallucination? or is it impossible to know?

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Kickle said:
Of course you don't care after all these posts

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Kickle said:
Right, who gives a shit? It's a question that has plagued humanity for milenia and for some unknown reason you claim to know the answer

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if you won't even look, and really think about what type of work and proof it takes, and really look at the work he has done, then I don't give a shit what you or anyone else has to say, any more than I care about what pastors, imams or retards have to say.

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Kickle said:
Do you realize what forum you are in? The strength of your words is all you have to rely on here. If you can't hack it, get out.

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tempusvita said:

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Kickle said:
Do you realize what forum you are in? The strength of your words is all you have to rely on here. If you can't hack it, get out.

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So ironic.  I realize your measure..

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For someone who doesn't care you certainly don't post like it.  Someone here is lying and fos and I think I know who it is.

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tempusvita said:
It isn't like anything.

I don't mean it's like something but different from everything else.  I mean there is nothing to describe, nothing to imagine.  There is no experiential part to it.  It's like imagining what its like to be a rock.

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I'm posting this because people in another thread were talking about what a great experience death would be, or what a release it would be.  I am afraid thats not the case...It's not a release, because there is nothing to release once it happens.. It's not like your going to be able to exhale after you die.  If you were being crushed by adversity, by hardships in life, and die before they are overcome, I am sorry but death is no escape.  If you kill yourself, you are not released from events.  Time merely ends in the middle of your hardship.

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tempusvita said:

Your post is a long reaching ad hominem.

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Do you know what an ad hominem fallacy is? I in no way attacked your person..I attacked your argument. Your characterization is so off the mark I think you just threw that in there without knowing what it means (and its kind of insulting to accuse one of that).

You call thinking in absolutes silly, but that is exactly what you are doing, and that is what everyone here is taking issue with, I believe. Most of us, I'm sure, believe in the scientific method..but it's not necessarily the end all be all of understanding the universe.

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OrgoneConclusion said:

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It's this way because "science" tells us so.

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Science is a methodology, not a belief nor a dogma. Perhaps if you had paid attention in school.

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