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 OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor
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 Brain and Consciousness in a nutshell 
#15712591 - 01/24/12 04:21 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Evidence that consciousness is generated by the brain:
1. It develops gradually as the brain develops
2. It ceases during dreamless sleep
3. It ceases during most comas
4. It is affected, even changed significantly, by damage to the brain due to physical trauma, chemical agents or aging.
5. It ends at death.
Evidence that consciousness can exist independantly of the brain:
1. Some unsubstantiated anecdotes, wishful thinking and a shelf-load of New Age books.
Hmmm, which makes more sense?
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 4896744
Small Town Girl
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
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Evidence its not a function of other body parts comes from amputations, organ removal/exchange and the like.
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4896744
Small Town Girl
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Another thing suggesting consciousness is a property of the brain is that different chemicals which bond to different receptors in the brain change our consciousness.
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tribesman
Knew it all along
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...and what exactly is 'the brain' ?, and what is it that it is doing ?
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4896744
Small Town Girl
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 Re: Brain and Consciousness in a nutshell [Re: tribesman] 1
#15712805 - 01/24/12 05:07 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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It's the organ in your skull. It is processing information that it receives from sensory organs and creates memories and thoughts/feelings associated with said memories based on the patterns it has recorded through experience and its pre-existing structure. It uses past patterns to recognize the need for future patterns to maintain survival and/or reach other goals.
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Gnome_Zen
YoungMind
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Re: Brain and Consciousness in a nutshell [Re: 4896744]
#15712848 - 01/24/12 05:13 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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the contious and subcontious are so beyond how we can even precieve it i dont think we will ever uncover the source of where it comes from besides the fact that they might not be on the molecular level but the atomic level who knows it could be magic.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,604
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Evidence that consciousness is generated by the brain:
1. It develops gradually as the brain develops
2. It ceases during dreamless sleep
3. It ceases during most comas
4. It is affected, even changed significantly, by damage to the brain due to physical trauma, chemical agents or aging.
5. It ends at death.
Evidence that consciousness can exist independantly of the brain:
1. Some unsubstantiated anecdotes, wishful thinking and a shelf-load of New Age books.
Hmmm, which makes more sense?
It's a tie.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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tribesman
Knew it all along
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Posts: 395
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Re: Brain and Consciousness in a nutshell [Re: Gnome_Zen]
#15712865 - 01/24/12 05:17 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Could it be magic ? 
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Gnome_Zen
YoungMind
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Posts: 32
Loc: Where the two moden day p...
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Re: Brain and Consciousness in a nutshell [Re: tribesman]
#15712993 - 01/24/12 05:47 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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its magic definately magic because where is the thought coming from besides we dont know shit about the brain its the most complicated reality/universe weve ever incountered OrgoneConclusion is bullshit.
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Find your enlightenment. Mine is Psychedelics.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
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i argued for days trying to make this clear to a couple of shroomerites. although i agree with you and it is quite obvious that consciousness is dependent on matter but the idealist philosophical stance does hold up to reasoning. for example, an idealist philosopher might say that no where in the brain is there the experience of red. it doesn't matter how much we know about neuro-circuitry. this will never explain the experience of red and you have to admit they have a point.
this is why i like the non-reductionist physicalist stance, which holds that physics and brain science do explain consciousness but the language games used to express experience should not be discarded (as if they could) because they are useful in explaining the nature of experience.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
Edited by blingbling (01/24/12 06:04 PM)
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Gnome_Zen
YoungMind
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Re: Brain and Consciousness in a nutshell [Re: blingbling]
#15713103 - 01/24/12 06:10 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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but then when you think of matter matter is just electrochemical reactions in the brain from our senses. so we think. so it then bounces back to the brain but could we all just be an inner contious mind just floating in space and were just an illusion of what is persieved though this collective contious whole. Its an endless illusion that will never be resolved or solved.
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 1,389
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Re: Brain and Consciousness in a nutshell [Re: Gnome_Zen]
#15713371 - 01/24/12 06:58 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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but then when you think of matter matter is just electrochemical reactions in the brain from our senses.
that's what some of matter is
so it then bounces back to the brain but could we all just be an inner contious mind just floating in space and were just an illusion of what is persieved though this collective contious whole.
you forget that consciousness ends with death therefor it is dependent on the structure of matter. there is no difference between saying that consciousness is floating around somewhere but comes back to the relation between the nervous system and it's environment (matter and matter) and saying consciousness is dependent on matter. as soon as you admit that consciousness is dependent on the brain you admit that is material.
Its an endless illusion that will never be resolved or solved.
your starting to get to where i've landed in my idea of reality. i think reality itself is incomplete. it's not that we are not smart enough to figure it out but instead that there are fundamental parts of reality that are missing. this is hard to grasp because if reality is incomplete then we would assume that it would fall apart and yet it doesn't. imo to be a true materialist you have to admit that reality is a non-all. it's not that there's some spiritual realm that makes quantum mechanics and consciousness work. it's that for reality to function it doesn't need all the pieces to the puzzle.
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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tribesman
Knew it all along
Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 395
Loc: fixed in it's gaze
Last seen: 11 days, 19 hours
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Is the sentience that develops as an emergent property of the brain,
able to comprehend it's 'own' nature fully ?
I remember your thread about the fish bowl, and the difficulty in gaining a tangential dimension to our perspective that would allow us to know our nature
in totality and with clarity.
So you see, I think it's a little early to be counting your chickens.
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor
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Re: Brain and Consciousness in a nutshell [Re: tribesman]
#15713713 - 01/24/12 08:02 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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One chicken brain
Two chicken brains
Three chicken brains...
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 1,389
Last seen: 18 hours, 57 minutes
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four chicken brains...
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"The man with the clear head is the man who frees himself from those fantastic ideas (the characterological lie about reality) and looks life in the face, realizes that everything in it is problematic, and feels lost. And this is the simple truth - that to live is to feel lost - he who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look round for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order into the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked." - Ernest Becker
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Samurai Drifter
Wandering Mindfuck
Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 5,042
Loc: Frosted
Last seen: 2 days, 2 hours
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Evidence that consciousness is generated by the brain:
1. It develops gradually as the brain develops
2. It ceases during dreamless sleep
3. It ceases during most comas
4. It is affected, even changed significantly, by damage to the brain due to physical trauma, chemical agents or aging.
5. It ends at death.
Evidence that consciousness can exist independantly of the brain:
1. Some unsubstantiated anecdotes, wishful thinking and a shelf-load of New Age books.
Hmmm, which makes more sense?
None of that suggests consciousness is produced by the brain; rather, that consciousness is the operation of the brain.
And that's not just a word-game. Being imprecise with language is the root of basically all philosophical problems.
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The obstacle is the path.
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor
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Re: Brain and Consciousness in a nutshell [Re: blingbling]
#15713738 - 01/24/12 08:08 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
blingbling said:
four chicken brains...
Now you confused me and I lost count and hasta start all over. 
One chicken brain...
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OrgoneConclusion
Pharoah & Balanced
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 29,385
Loc: Luxor
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Evidence that consciousness is generated by the brain:
1. It develops gradually as the brain develops
2. It ceases during dreamless sleep
3. It ceases during most comas
4. It is affected, even changed significantly, by damage to the brain due to physical trauma, chemical agents or aging.
5. It ends at death.
Evidence that consciousness can exist independantly of the brain:
1. Some unsubstantiated anecdotes, wishful thinking and a shelf-load of New Age books.
Hmmm, which makes more sense?
None of that suggests consciousness is produced by the brain; rather, that consciousness is the operation of the brain.
And that's not just a word-game. Being imprecise with language is the root of basically all philosophical problems.
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This is your drain on brugs.
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OverStoned
Tripper
Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 288
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Last seen: 5 days, 2 hours
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Heard of hydrocephalus??
from http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/science/is_the_brain_really_necessary.htm :
Later, a colleague at Sheffield University became aware of a young man with a larger than normal head. He was referred to Lorber even though it had not caused him any difficulty. Although the boy had an IQ of 126 and had a first class honours degree in mathematics, he had "virtually no brain". A noninvasive measurement of radio density known as CAT scan showed the boy's skull was lined with a thin layer of brain cells to a millimeter in thickness. The rest of his skull was filled with cerebrospinal fluid. The young man continues a normal life with the exception of his knowledge that he has no brain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocephalus
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 IT'S ALL TOO MUCH
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