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 love2shpongleIRL
Opiophile
Registered: 06/11/11
Posts: 4,784
Last seen: 29 days, 21 hours
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 Health care professional tag
#15711378 - 01/24/12 11:03 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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For harm reduction purposes, I think it would be a good idea to have those who work in the medical field have a medical professional tag next to their name. When health related threads pop up it is not uncommon to see loads of bad and potentially harmful advice. I believe this tag could help differentiate the good info from the bad. Not quite sure how this would work as far as proving it, but I wouldn't mind faxing my certifications if it were necessary. Good idea or no?
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Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
T. S. Eliot
Edited by love2shpongleIRL (01/24/12 11:04 AM)
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 ToiletDuk
Cat Psychiatrist
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 73,296
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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I think it's a good idea. I've seen some unbelievably bad advice being given out in the Health forum by folks who don't know what the Hell they're talking about.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 16,174
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Re: Health care professional tag [Re: ToiletDuk] 1
#15711579 - 01/24/12 12:04 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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It's an interesting idea. But will it actually work? If a dentist is giving a cancer patient advice on how to deal with his illness, would that be any different from a well-informed lay person sharing his thoughts?
Quote:
ToiletDuk said:
I've seen some unbelievably bad advice being given out in the Health forum by folks who don't know what the Hell they're talking about.
I've seen some unbelievably bad advice being given out by doctors. See what I mean?
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ToiletDuk
Cat Psychiatrist
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 73,296
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Health care professional tag [Re: koraks]
#15711628 - 01/24/12 12:14 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Yes, but I seriously doubt a doctor would tell a diabetic to quit taking insulin and take vitamins instead. Besides, I'd sooner trust a dentist than some kid who thinks he knows everything.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 16,174
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Re: Health care professional tag [Re: ToiletDuk]
#15711646 - 01/24/12 12:17 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Alright, but let's take it closer to home. Take e.g. a nurse, would that be a healthcare professional? And how would you regard his/her views on a subject like depression?
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ToiletDuk
Cat Psychiatrist
Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 73,296
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Health care professional tag [Re: koraks]
#15711673 - 01/24/12 12:23 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Most nurses I've met have been very competent. Again, I'd rather trust a nurse than some teenager fresh out of HS.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 16,174
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Re: Health care professional tag [Re: ToiletDuk] 1
#15711686 - 01/24/12 12:26 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
ToiletDuk said:
Again, I'd rather trust a nurse than some teenager fresh out of HS.
But I'd rather trust a well-informed layperson with experience with the disease in question than a nurse who thinks (s)he can handle this one just like (s)he handled the IV drip this afternoon.
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Irishdrunk
Now with less alcoholism!
Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 20,566
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Re: Health care professional tag [Re: koraks] 4
#15712117 - 01/24/12 02:20 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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I think police officers should get a tag too.
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He who makes a beast of himself,
Gets rid of the pain of being a man.
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love2shpongleIRL
Opiophile
Registered: 06/11/11
Posts: 4,784
Last seen: 29 days, 21 hours
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Re: Health care professional tag [Re: ToiletDuk]
#15712255 - 01/24/12 02:53 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
ToiletDuk said:
Most nurses I've met have been very competent. Again, I'd rather trust a nurse than some teenager fresh out of HS.
Same, I know and have worked with quite a few brilliant nurses. As for what level of education would qualify for the tag, I am not sure, that would have to be discussed further. I'm just a firefighter/paramedic with a bunch of other random and somewhat useless certifications.
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Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
T. S. Eliot
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anunnakian
Cursed by Bewilderment
Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 9,812
Loc: State of Jefferson
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I think there might be a legal consequence to it.
I was reading something on reddit concerning legal advice given from a lawyer that could lead to lawsuits for various reasons. Basically, if you need advice from a lawyer you need to spend that $ to basically form a contract. In that same thread some folks had also mentioned the health care profession. Basically what it came down to is having someone come to the shroomery and ask about a health issues and get advice from a "trusted health care person", then end up getting worse or even dying. The person who gave the advice if found out would be in trouble and the site could very well find it self in a shit storm of legal problems.
If someone needs proper legal advice, the answer is get a lawyer.
If someone needs proper medical advice, the answer is go to a doctor.
Professional Doctors and Lawyers stay the hell away from this kind of stuff.
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To Do List:
 Bananadine, Glue, Dust Off, Catnip, Jenkem, Gasoline, Nutmeg, Gold Paint, 5-MeO-W, Mothballs, 4Loko, Spice
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love2shpongleIRL
Opiophile
Registered: 06/11/11
Posts: 4,784
Last seen: 29 days, 21 hours
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Re: Health care professional tag [Re: anunnakian]
#15713332 - 01/24/12 06:51 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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That's why a disclaimer will be necessary and most health care professionals will er on the side of caution because they can't see the patient. They have no idea what kind of condition he/she might be in. You can't diagnose someone over the internet and you can't give dosage advice, but you can offer advice or explain to someone how their decisions could possibly effect their bodies. Let me repeat, this type of thing is not to be used to diagnose folks over the net. Opiophile.org had(not sure if they still do)both health care professionals(Mainly Doctors and nurses) and a lawyer for the legal forum, that would be the model I personally would like to see here. This is no different than the trusted identifier tag, that type of advice also has the potential to cause egregious harm.
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Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
T. S. Eliot
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anunnakian
Cursed by Bewilderment
Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 9,812
Loc: State of Jefferson
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Quote:
love2shpongleIRL said:
This is no different than the trusted identifier tag, that type of advice also has the potential to cause egregious harm.
That is true, except the trusted identifier tag has no connections to a federally regulated institution such as healthcare and all federal laws that go along with it.
I just think it's a bad idea when it comes to a liability issues and the shroomery.
That is my concern.
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, I just worry deeply about the ramifications.
I think if this where to happen this could be a situation. Of course I don't know all the laws but I have a feeling this could very well be the case.
Say someone copies their... for lack of a better word, doctors degree and sends it to an admin who then gives a trusted health care tag. Now that admin and the site is liable for anything that the person says which could lead to harm.
Who is going to fact check the info and make sure everything is legal and not some troll forging docs?
All I can say to finish up my points is, a lawyer should be heavily involved in any kind of decision if it comes to this.
One thing I just thought off
Quote:
That's why a disclaimer will be necessary
Where will that be displayed? It would have to be on every post made by that trusted med.
We all know most people don't read the rules and or disclaimers.
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To Do List:
Bananadine, Glue, Dust Off, Catnip, Jenkem, Gasoline, Nutmeg, Gold Paint, 5-MeO-W, Mothballs, 4Loko, Spice
Edited by anunnakian (01/24/12 08:29 PM)
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love2shpongleIRL
Opiophile
Registered: 06/11/11
Posts: 4,784
Last seen: 29 days, 21 hours
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Re: Health care professional tag [Re: anunnakian]
#15715709 - 01/25/12 10:07 AM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Here is an example of a disclaimer regarding medical advice from a Doctor on a woman's corset site: " DISCLAIMER: Liability for any medical advice regarding corsetry given by Dr. Beaumont is yours and yours alone. Any condition that is brought about or exacerbated by corset wearing is entirely the responsibility of the wearer, and the medical advice of your physician should be sought if in doubt. LISA does not recommend tightlacing for anyone with circulatory, heart, respiratory problems or hypertension, nor during pregnancy."
Something as simple as that could work fine, you aren't treating anybody, so it's not like Ythan would need to buy malpractice insurance. As for someone faking certifications for the lulz, I can't speak for other certifications(Doctors and the like), but I know most of my certs(mainly my fire and EMT-P) would be almost impossible to forge. In the case of my certifications, they are all done and maintained by the department of homeland security and have more built in security than a 100 dollar bill.
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Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
T. S. Eliot
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 14,298
Loc: Americas
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Regardless of the legal responsibility of the user, which attatches no matter what tag or whatnot you have, I would be concerned with the exposure of the site (presuming the tag is instituted and given by the administration/moderators).
Providing a tag would constitute an endorsement of the person's view/expertise, and when making such a representation, it could be plausibly argued that there is some minimal duty to be dilligent in giving the tag to someone who is qualified and appropriate for such an endorsement.
Honestly, in my experience nurses are pretty terrible at knowing anything at all (exceptions being ICU/CCU et cet and ER nurses, to varying extents). Really a nurse's job is entirely to follow orders and document, and this doesn't take much but technical skill (how to actually do physical tasks). Often they "know" things without knowing why or what the limitations of the 'rule' is, and thus will be overconfident, inappropriate, in their advice- often this is because those to whom the 'rule' wouldn't apply would not be seen by them in the first place.
As always, though, this is highly person-specific and I agree with Koraks that that employment is less important than the knowledge. To that end, i think the tag would serve a disservice in some way by encouraging faith rather than critical analysis. It doesn't matter what the credentials of the person are, if they can't explain and justify their advice, there's no reason to follow it.
(regarding personal liability of users and the site, per agency, various licensing statutes could be violated by representing someone as having any particular degree of knowledge regarding healthcare- such statutes and regulations are often ridiculously over-encompasing and cover simply advise given by a mother to a son, for example).
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XUL
student of exercise physiology
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 6,213
Last seen: 4 days, 2 hours
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Re: Health care professional tag [Re: koraks]
#15720112 - 01/26/12 08:55 AM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
ToiletDuk said:
Again, I'd rather trust a nurse than some teenager fresh out of HS.
But I'd rather trust a well-informed layperson with experience with the disease in question than a nurse who thinks (s)he can handle this one just like (s)he handled the IV drip this afternoon.
So how about this...
In order for a shroomery member to maintain a medical symbol next to their name they have to list their position under their name.
For example mine currently is..
XUL
Optimist
One day mine could be...
XUL
Exercise Physiologist
Another example..
Koraks
Dental Assistant
or..
shLong
Surgeon
If they dont have their position labeled then they shouldnt be allowed to maintain the medical symbol. Surely it couldnt be too too hard to program that into the website.
Eh?
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 16,174
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Re: Health care professional tag [Re: XUL]
#15720607 - 01/26/12 11:31 AM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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Is 'pedantic critic' a medical profession too? Perhaps in the realm of psychiatry?
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cc2
Mush
Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 1,687
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Quote:
love2shpongleIRL said:
For harm reduction purposes, I think it would be a good idea to have those who work in the medical field have a medical professional tag next to their name.
I'm sorry but I am against this idea. not just because of the many tags/badges which are proposed from time to time, but because no serious medical advice can be given without a physician examining his/her patient.
also this would dig deeper in disclaimers about health risks, legal issues etc. so since this feature won't improve by a great order of magnitude what are nothing but blindfolded tips and suggestions to somebody you don't know, I'd stick with what worked until now: accepting posts, comparing them yourself and always take everything with a grain of salt.
the general idea has something nice, but the point of not being possible to examine a patient by person is a huge gap and would make such tags uninfluent or even worse create an unjustified sense of confidence IMHO.
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cateyes
Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 2,753
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 Re: Health care professional tag [Re: XUL]
#15721713 - 01/26/12 04:21 PM (4 months, 21 hours ago) |
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is Exercise Physiologist another name of personal trainer? or is it a super duper personal trainer? 
i'd like a personal tag for refrigeration service engineers! i'll help design the logo!!!
Kensho  
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XUL
student of exercise physiology
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 6,213
Last seen: 4 days, 2 hours
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Re: Health care professional tag [Re: cateyes]
#15722395 - 01/26/12 06:50 PM (4 months, 19 hours ago) |
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Quote:
cateyes said:
is Exercise Physiologist another name of personal trainer? or is it a super duper personal trainer?
i'd like a personal tag for refrigeration service engineers! i'll help design the logo!!!
Kensho
Not at all.
I decided that I am going to go to college to study clinical exercise physiology. At first (freshman year) you just study exercise science/physiology and then there comes a point where you pick a concentration (at least at the college I am going to attend). You can choose to either concentrate in exercise science, which is geared more toward personal training and sports teams or you can choose the concentration of clinical exercise physiology, which offers jobs in hospitals. Most clinical exercise physiologist jobs require a masters degree, which I seek to obtain.
For example. My father has cancer and recently he went to the Cleveland Cancer Clinic. There is saw an exercise physiologist who helped him battle type 2 diabetes and greatly improve his health. My dad was initially losing to cancer but now he is doing very well. The exercise physiologist made a big difference in his life.
Clinical exercise physiologists often deal with cardiac, pulmonary, and metabolic rehabilitation.
I am definitely going to apply to a hospital but my ultimate dream is to work somewhere where I can do research and studies. Maybe a college? There is so much uncharted territory when it comes to exercise physiology.
All in all I feel like I am building the start of a great medical resume. I have a ways to go yet but eventually I will be golden.
-CSCS credential
-Navy Hospital Corpsman
-Masters Clinical Exercise Physiology
-Work with the mentally challenged (giving medications)
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Edited by XUL (01/26/12 06:57 PM)
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novumorganum
5B
Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 17,276
Loc: the city of dis
Last seen: 33 minutes, 43 seconds
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i think its a nice idea, and i'm sure people with the tag would try their best to be as correct and helpful as possible, but i agree, it probably does open the site to liability issues it doesn't need. and in all honesty, disclaimers don't mean all that much to lawyers, trail juries, and the FDA and AMA.
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