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 sof4r0ckeRs1984
Alice and Bob
 
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 dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis 
#15711083 - 01/24/12 09:44 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Hi there, I just wondered if things like big mushrooms/rhizomorphic growth etc are dominant or recessive genotypes with cubes.
Maybe there are some biologists around who can answer this?
Greetz
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The Horrors... Really bad example of dosage, set and setting.
[quote]starfire_xes said:
Don't worry about being ugly. Beauty is only skin deep.
Ugly goes all the way to the bone....
[/quote]
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 total
Post Office Tyvek Advocator
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
#15711542 - 01/24/12 11:50 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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This doesnt belong in Advanced Mycology.
Plus i dont think you have much basic knowledge on genetics or mycology, because your question really doesnt make sense.
Also, mycologist study fungi...Not Biologists...
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straightedge
Element Zero Anomaly
Registered: 09/24/11
Posts: 63
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: total]
#15712977 - 01/24/12 05:44 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
total said:
This doesnt belong in Advanced Mycology.
Plus i dont think you have much basic knowledge on genetics or mycology, because your question really doesnt make sense.
Also, mycologist study fungi...Not Biologists...
Is that just because you don't understand the question?\
And biology would be a superset of mycology.
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total
Post Office Tyvek Advocator
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: straightedge]
#15713992 - 01/24/12 09:12 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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sof4r0ckeRs1984
Alice and Bob
Registered: 07/30/10
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: total]
#15714665 - 01/25/12 01:06 AM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Come on guys, I don't want a nerd fight. I have a lot of biological common knowledge, plus I know about the mendelian laws of inheritance. Do I have to be a doctor in biology to get this simple question answered?
Just help me with that question.
--------------------
The Horrors... Really bad example of dosage, set and setting.
[quote]starfire_xes said:
Don't worry about being ugly. Beauty is only skin deep.
Ugly goes all the way to the bone....
[/quote]
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total
Post Office Tyvek Advocator
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
#15714671 - 01/25/12 01:11 AM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Then i would say this...
No "rhizomorphic growth" isnt all genetics...
Mycelium changes from rhizo to non-rhizo based on various conditions...
Such as food and temp...
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Nobitte
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: total]
#15722556 - 01/26/12 07:28 PM (4 months, 18 hours ago) |
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The propensity to develop rhizomorphic mycellium based on environmental conditions would most certainly have some root in the genetics of the organism.
Unfortunately, discerning any patterns in these(traits) would likely require some laborious research (And genetics is really dull)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK21421/ - This article discusses inheritance of certain genes in various organisms (including ascomycete fungi... i think), should serve as a nice little primer if you haven't found anything to read on the subject yet.
Apologies in advance for my doe-eyed ignorance, enthusiasm and for the bump.
Curiosity should be rewarded, not chastised!
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First we must learn...
Then... WE CAN TEACH 
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senorcafe
pass the wasabi
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: Nobitte]
#15726572 - 01/27/12 06:11 PM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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i believe (and although im a noobly noob im a di heart mycophile who lives by a strict code of morels) if you wanna play with mushie genetics,
- work out monokaryon cultures
- run a PCR reaction and then a gel (i dont know where you get the right start codes for the specific genes you wanted)
- once genotypes are know cross two monokaryons together or a mono with MS
- or go old school mendelin pick your fruits with desired traits and work to a monokaryon culture then cross breed, or just take a print from the best fruit everytime and grow it out.
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hallucigens dont cause psychedelics, psychedelics cause hallucinations
if you can you should -senorcafe
im so stoned i could eat kitty litter because its crunchy-glenn brace
little brown mushroom-so hard to identify-look alikes common
varied habitats-the mycophile wonders-edible deadly
underneath blue sky-you spread from grass to tree line-popping up when rains
little brown mushroom-maybe one day i shall know-who you really are
Edited by senorcafe (01/27/12 06:13 PM)
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sof4r0ckeRs1984
Alice and Bob
Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 1,338
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: senorcafe]
#15726767 - 01/27/12 06:57 PM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Hmmm...
The life cycle of shrooms says that the two nuclei of dikaryotic mycelium only melt shortly before the formation of baisdiospores. Then I guess it doubles itself so there will be two diploid nuclei which divide into four haploid nuclei. Or maybe after the Karyogamy they divide into two haploid nuclei and then double...
Does somebody know how exactly it functions?
I also wondered how the mixing of the genomes during karyogamy functions, because in my imagination it will all be messed up
--------------------
The Horrors... Really bad example of dosage, set and setting.
[quote]starfire_xes said:
Don't worry about being ugly. Beauty is only skin deep.
Ugly goes all the way to the bone....
[/quote]
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Nobitte
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
#15727162 - 01/27/12 08:48 PM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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I wish i could lend you my textbooks... its all in front of me, but i cannot be bothered retyping it...
So here is a picture that sums up the lifecycle really well, i hope this helps;
Source: http://www.desktopclass.com/education/fafsc/classification-of-fungi-part-2-f-sc-biology-chapter-8.html
Im sure you have read the wikipedia on basidiomycota, but here it is anyway, specifically the part on life cycles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basidiomycota#Typical_life-cycle
If you're having trouble grasping it from there i would advise reviewing mitosis/meiosis.
--------------------
First we must learn...
Then... WE CAN TEACH
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sof4r0ckeRs1984
Alice and Bob
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Posts: 1,338
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: Nobitte]
#15728142 - 01/28/12 02:53 AM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Yeah I've seen it before.
When I thought about it yesterday sitting on the shitter I realized how caryogamy happens:
The two haploid nuclei unite and the chromosomes that belong to each other mix informations, then they separate again to form haploid nuclei again, that's the spores. So the spores are not at all an exact representative of what their mothermushroom was, in fact thei're half of the information plus it's randomized. That makes a few trillion possibilities to mix together each time. Also you cannot control how many spores mate together by inoculation, so you start anew each time you do it, or you do it under the microscope with only two spores on agar between glasses in front of a flowhood and watch what will come out.
If there's a genome property for fast growth it might be triggered by a lot of genomes and circumstances, we obviously have no detailed information about it.
But if it was as simple as picking good mushrooms and taking sporeprints and selecting them according to properties it would seriously be awesome.
--------------------
The Horrors... Really bad example of dosage, set and setting.
[quote]starfire_xes said:
Don't worry about being ugly. Beauty is only skin deep.
Ugly goes all the way to the bone....
[/quote]
Tired of PF-Tek? Swwerts Whole Brown Rice Cakes Pictorial
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Nobitte
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984] 1
#15728375 - 01/28/12 06:35 AM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Youve probably seen this before as well.
*flicks through first year work books*
Correct me if i get anything terribly wrong.
Meiosis 1 begins with/following karyogamy in basidiomycetes.
Early Prophase
- Replicated condensed chromosomes form
Prophase I
- Homologous chromosomes form
- Homologous Chromatids can cross over at this point
Metaphase I
- Kinetochores attached to poles (I think fungi have centrosomes that the spindles form from)
- Kinetochores once joined act as a single unit.
- Sister Chromatids pair and align
Anaphase + Telophase I
- Homologous chromosomes move to opposite poles, sister chromatids stay together
- Cleavage furrow forms for first seperation
Interphase II
Prophase II
Metaphase II
- Chromosomes lined up on metaphase plate
- Spindles attach to Sister Chromatids
Anaphase + Telophase II
- Sister chromatids seperate
- cells split forming 4 haploid cells
There are a mind boggling amount of potential pairs.
This is why the chap before said that you might need to engage in some PCR, maybe a little bit of chopping with restriction enzymes followed by Agarose Gel Electrophoresis.
And to be honest, unless i was being paid, i couldnt bothered, but still rather interesting to read about.
--------------------
First we must learn...
Then... WE CAN TEACH
Edited by Nobitte (01/28/12 06:48 AM)
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sof4r0ckeRs1984
Alice and Bob
Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 1,338
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: Nobitte]
#15729859 - 01/28/12 02:41 PM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Wow man, that's some nice information! Thank you!
--------------------
The Horrors... Really bad example of dosage, set and setting.
[quote]starfire_xes said:
Don't worry about being ugly. Beauty is only skin deep.
Ugly goes all the way to the bone....
[/quote]
Tired of PF-Tek? Swwerts Whole Brown Rice Cakes Pictorial
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metacohl
Mycophage
Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 57
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
#15736257 - 01/29/12 10:30 PM (3 months, 28 days ago) |
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Unless I am mistaken, good chance I am, the question of dominant vs. recessive is moot with cubes because they have haploid nuclei. Because haploid nuclei, by definition, only have one set of chromosomes there are no competing alleles... ie. Only dominant traits.
Now I have read some CRAZY shit about exchange of genetic information betwee the two individual nuclei in dikaryotic cells, but I believe this is not the same as dominant and recessive genetics.
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It's only rocket science.
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senorcafe
pass the wasabi
Registered: 09/23/11
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: metacohl]
#15737139 - 01/30/12 06:23 AM (3 months, 28 days ago) |
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fungi are masters at being able to exchange chromosomes due to crossing over and subtle changes during mitosis and meiosis. the more random and frequent these mutations the better adaptive to the enviroment the fungi is.
when to monokaryotic hyphae "mate" the two haploid nuclei fuse to create the dikaryotic, both nuclei information shows. which then will live and die producing haploid spores
and somewhere in the cycle they become diploid?
--------------------
hallucigens dont cause psychedelics, psychedelics cause hallucinations
if you can you should -senorcafe
im so stoned i could eat kitty litter because its crunchy-glenn brace
little brown mushroom-so hard to identify-look alikes common
varied habitats-the mycophile wonders-edible deadly
underneath blue sky-you spread from grass to tree line-popping up when rains
little brown mushroom-maybe one day i shall know-who you really are
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sof4r0ckeRs1984
Alice and Bob
Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 1,338
Loc: so fa away
Last seen: 1 month, 16 days
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: senorcafe]
#15738370 - 01/30/12 01:19 PM (3 months, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
metacohl said:
Now I have read some CRAZY shit about exchange of genetic information betwee the two individual nuclei in dikaryotic cells, but I believe this is not the same as dominant and recessive genetics.
Tell me moar 
Quote:
senorcafe said:
and somewhere in the cycle they become diploid?
Yes, they unite to a diploid nucleus during meiosis (see diagram above)
It's called karyogamy (gr.: the mating of cores)
--------------------
The Horrors... Really bad example of dosage, set and setting.
[quote]starfire_xes said:
Don't worry about being ugly. Beauty is only skin deep.
Ugly goes all the way to the bone....
[/quote]
Tired of PF-Tek? Swwerts Whole Brown Rice Cakes Pictorial
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metacohl
Mycophage
Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 57
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: sof4r0ckeRs1984]
#15738603 - 01/30/12 02:10 PM (3 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
sof4r0ckeRs1984 said:
Quote:
metacohl said:
Now I have read some CRAZY shit about exchange of genetic information betwee the two individual nuclei in dikaryotic cells, but I believe this is not the same as dominant and recessive genetics.
Tell me moar
Senor Cafe mentioned "Crossing Over" which usually occurs during meosis and is the exchange of genetic info between chromosomes. However, in a process called Parasexuality, crossing over can occur during mitotic divisions of a dikaryotic cell. I'm sure this isnt the only example of parasexuality, maybe someone else can chime in. I remember something about the exchange of cytoplasmic genetic elements.
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It's only rocket science.
Edited by metacohl (01/30/12 02:34 PM)
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senorcafe
pass the wasabi
Registered: 09/23/11
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: metacohl]
#15739111 - 01/30/12 04:08 PM (3 months, 27 days ago) |
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there it is step 5 lol
and thanks i didnt know the word parasexuality i just knew it could happen
great thread
--------------------
hallucigens dont cause psychedelics, psychedelics cause hallucinations
if you can you should -senorcafe
im so stoned i could eat kitty litter because its crunchy-glenn brace
little brown mushroom-so hard to identify-look alikes common
varied habitats-the mycophile wonders-edible deadly
underneath blue sky-you spread from grass to tree line-popping up when rains
little brown mushroom-maybe one day i shall know-who you really are
|
Nobitte
Student
Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 392
Loc: Biosphere
Last seen: 8 hours, 3 minutes
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: senorcafe]
#15739796 - 01/30/12 06:25 PM (3 months, 27 days ago) |
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I remember hearing in a lecture that septate hyphae can still have cytoplasmic continuity, through pores in the septa, which means that the contents of the cytosol, including some organelles have the capacity to migrate from one section to another, i do not know whether this facilitates any kind of gene exchange (i wish one of the pros would chime in and sort us all out, maybe a little lecture/seminar).
I figure that the cytoplasm and contents are migrated into new sections as it colonises more substrate/creates more hypha.
I found this!
http://www.fungionline.org.uk/3hyphae/3septa.html#septa4
In any case, having what are effectively two haploid organisms creating a single mass in symphony is something that always struck me about dikarya, i would imagine this would be done in a consistent fashion, that is to say, achieving more or less the same result in each cell(does anyone know?).
What a great topic to study  .
--------------------
First we must learn...
Then... WE CAN TEACH
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metacohl
Mycophage
Registered: 07/03/11
Posts: 57
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Re: dominant/recessive properties on Psi. cubensis [Re: Nobitte]
#15740454 - 01/30/12 08:43 PM (3 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nobitte said:
I remember hearing in a lecture that septate hyphae can still have cytoplasmic continuity, through pores in the septa, which means that the contents of the cytosol, including some organelles have the capacity to migrate from one section to another, i do not know whether this facilitates any kind of gene exchange (i wish one of the pros would chime in and sort us all out, maybe a little lecture/seminar).
I figure that the cytoplasm and contents are migrated into new sections as it colonises more substrate/creates more hypha.
This is really awesome, septa would have really interesting implication for integration of genetic elements in the cytoplasm. Perhaps this is one way that the hyphal cells are able to "pass along" the genetic info obtained during anastomosis.
Quote:
In any case, having what are effectively two haploid organisms creating a single mass in symphony is something that always struck me about dikarya, i would imagine this would be done in a consistent fashion, that is to say, achieving more or less the same result in each cell(does anyone know?).
What a great topic to study .
Yes, I think the idea is that during mitotic division the two haploid nuclei remain intact and are copied in a consistent and coordinated fashion. Except..... for the mitotic crossover I mentioned earlier. I have read that mitotic crossover does not follow the coordinated process of meotic crossover.
I am going to echo the request for one of the pros to educate us on this complex topic.... I for one have about exhausted my knowledge, but not interest, on this subject.
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It's only rocket science.
Edited by metacohl (01/30/12 08:49 PM)
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