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 CLIT
Stranger
Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 65
Last seen: 5 days, 14 hours
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 first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations 
#15710756 - 01/24/12 08:00 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Hi,
earlier today I had to try out my cultivated shrooms. I used my gram scale to measure how much I will be ingesting. It was about 0.5 grams. I did not swallow anything, I spat the mushroom out but looks like its juices that was already in my mouth had an effect on me; body heat, feeling drunk, heart racing, body felt like it was "lifeless" when laying down in bed. It was a scary experience even at such low dose. I did this because I have a history of panic attacks, anxiety, OCD, depression, psychotic disorder (my main clinical diagnosis and perhaps all the issues I pre-mentioned is the result from this psychotic disorder). I have not been on any prescription medications for close to 10 years and did so-so, but life could be better (the reason why I pursued using psilocybin mushroom, not just for "getting high"). Not sure if I should step up the dose to 1.0 gram (I have this amount readily available, look at the pic I posted, those 2 tiny things you see next to the big mushroom weigh 1.0 gram). I read someone say 10 grams should be the minimum. That's a bit high I think considering that I felt something with just 0.5 grams, without even swallowing the fruit, just the juices left in my mouth, which could be at 0.1 gram or less. I did not hallucinate nor did I see colors or heard anything unusual, but I felt the power. I listened to music and played my acoustic guitar along with it to distract the fear/uncertainty that I was feeling, but now I know how it's like to be on psilocybin, but I'm still curious what a higher dose could be. The whole experience lasted about 1 hour then I fell asleep for about 3 hours and woke up.
Look at the picture. I only cultivated golden teacher, B+, A+, and Penis Envy. My Azurescens is still being cultivated so I know what I had was not Azurescens. What could this be in the picture? I forgot to label it but remembered it as Penis Envy, but none of the pictures I've seen posted on this board could compare this to looking like a Penis Envy at all. What could this be? It looks golden.
Edited by CLIT (01/24/12 08:07 AM)
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Daijo
Entropy
 
Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 2,307
Loc: Canada 
Last seen: 5 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: CLIT]
#15710760 - 01/24/12 08:02 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Enough of this ''psilocybin'' thing. It's not the active ingredient. It's only the prodrug of psilocin which is the active compound.
Since there's psilocybin and psilocin in shrooms, talk about psilocin first.
Sincerely,
a frustrated chemist
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CLIT
Stranger
Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 65
Last seen: 5 days, 14 hours
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: Daijo]
#15710765 - 01/24/12 08:04 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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ok. I did not know of such technicality, but go ahead discuss it.
Quote:
Daijo said:
Enough of this ''psilocybin'' thing. It's not the active ingredient. It's only the prodrug of psilocin which is the active compound.
Since there's psilocybin and psilocin in shrooms, talk about psilocin first.
Sincerely,
a frustrated chemist
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Daijo
Entropy
Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 2,307
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 hours, 13 minutes
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: CLIT]
#15710771 - 01/24/12 08:08 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Nothing really to discuss. Psilocin is active directly when you eat. Psilocybin has to be dephosphorylated in your liver into psilocin, hence the longer duration of a shroom trip compared to a straight psilocin trip.
To answer your original question, if 0.5g put you in this state, I (personally) would not fuck with shrooms. But I have an history of anxiety with tryptamines, so I don't do them very often.
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HarryL
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: Daijo]
#15710793 - 01/24/12 08:18 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Actually... Sounds like placebo effects... You did not get enough of anything ... I would be very cautious with mushrooms if you have mental issues... Mushrooms are not for everyone.
And once ingested, psilocybin is rapidly metabolized to psilocin, which then acts on serotonin receptors in the brain.
Mushrooms often contain psilocybin and psilocin, and also Baeocystin... So, while it is more appropriate to talk about psilocin and brain receptors, I think it's fine to say psilocybin effects.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4026549
Happy Physicist
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Mushroom hunting: One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.
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GoldenArrow
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: Daijo] 1
#15710797 - 01/24/12 08:20 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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You did half a gram wet, or half a gram dry?
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"Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night....all day!" 
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CLIT
Stranger
Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 65
Last seen: 5 days, 14 hours
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: Daijo]
#15710809 - 01/24/12 08:24 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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well the reason why it put me in the state I described was because I have a history of anxiety and panic attacks. I was already anxious and uncertain before I even ingested the shroom. There is a study that shows why people suffer from anxiety attack (or stage fright) is because of negative anticipations or expecting the worse or that fear of failing. I was already expecting the worst before I even knew what it's like to be on psilocybin. Turns out ok, I feel great today. I just need to lose this negative feelings, this self-consciousness that has been with me for over 10 years which resulted in my "issues".
Quote:
Daijo said:
Nothing really to discuss. Psilocin is active directly when you eat. Psilocybin has to be dephosphorylated in your liver into psilocin, hence the longer duration of a shroom trip compared to a straight psilocin trip.
To answer your original question, if 0.5g put you in this state, I (personally) would not fuck with shrooms. But I have an history of anxiety with tryptamines, so I don't do them very often.
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CLIT
Stranger
Registered: 01/22/12
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: GoldenArrow]
#15710817 - 01/24/12 08:26 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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freshly picked (so it's wet). I chewed well but spat the fruit, the juices left in my mouth was swallowed.
Quote:
GoldenArrow said:
You did half a gram wet, or half a gram dry?
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Daijo
Entropy
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: HarryL]
#15710819 - 01/24/12 08:27 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
HarryL said:
Actually... Sounds like placebo effects... You did not get enough of anything ... I would be very cautious with mushrooms if you have mental issues... Mushrooms are not for everyone.
And once ingested, psilocybin is rapidly metabolized to psilocin, which then acts on serotonin receptors in the brain.
Mushrooms often contain psilocybin and psilocin, and also Baeocystin... So, while it is more appropriate to talk about psilocin and brain receptors, I think it's fine to say psilocybin effects.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4026549
Happy Physicist
I know there are actually many different compounds, but my point is that most people ONLY talk about psilocybin.
If there was ONLY ONE thing to talk about it would be psilocin.
A happier chemist 
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CLIT
Stranger
Registered: 01/22/12
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: HarryL]
#15710860 - 01/24/12 08:38 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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could be placebo effect but it was more physical (I felt like I was drunk after just about 5 minutes of ingesting) so it can't be placebo. I think placebo is more mental, if you think it's supposed to do you good, then it might do you good but I think physical results matter, not just what you think. Mental issues can be treated with medicines and time. I think time took care of me, and separating my self from the people and or environment that made me have "issues" (aka resentment). Like I said I had not been on prescription medications in close to 10 years. When I was on it, all it did was "drug" me, and some of the meds I took made my OCD a lot worse.
I can agree with you that mushrooms is not for everyone. I don't show any symptoms of mental issues like I sort of did in the past even though in my opinion it was just depression due to chemical imbalance and or environmental issues (my diagnosis was just that; diagnosis). The people that should back out of shrooms are the ones that show mental distress and it's not hard to miss the symptoms. I feel great except this winter blues really sucks.
It probably would not be as scary if I had somebody with me when I ingested the shroom. I guess that feeling of loneliness added to it, knowing that I'm ingesting a "toxic" mushroom ALONE, in my own apartment at around 3 in the morning, the whole apartment building is eerily quiet and so are the streets outside.
Quote:
HarryL said:
Actually... Sounds like placebo effects... You did not get enough of anything ... I would be very cautious with mushrooms if you have mental issues... Mushrooms are not for everyone.
And once ingested, psilocybin is rapidly metabolized to psilocin, which then acts on serotonin receptors in the brain.
Mushrooms often contain psilocybin and psilocin, and also Baeocystin... So, while it is more appropriate to talk about psilocin and brain receptors, I think it's fine to say psilocybin effects.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4026549
Happy Physicist
Edited by CLIT (01/24/12 08:50 AM)
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 latherdome
envy of the drug world
Registered: 10/25/06
Posts: 733
Loc: PNW
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: Daijo]
#15710889 - 01/24/12 08:47 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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chewing it and swallowing the juice probably did deliver a small amount. i have read repeatedly that a great deal of absorption can happen in the mouth and throat, not just stomach. as fresh shrooms contain a higher amount of psilocin than dried, maybe this more direct path across the blood-brain barrier resulted in enhanced effects from a small amount.
anxiety is a totally common effect of low doses. it's also an effect of medium and high doses, but as long as you take enough, you will progress through the anxiety to a wonderful place. like being shot into orbit is said to be hair-raising, but once you make orbit it smooths out. with too low a dose you never make orbit, so it's all just pretty rough.
you do know that psilocybin/psilocin and other psychs are generally not recommended for people with a history of psychosis? be safe, huh? hope you have a sitter.
whatever it is, the bluing is strong, looks potent.
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CLIT
Stranger
Registered: 01/22/12
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: latherdome]
#15710923 - 01/24/12 08:58 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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you see the bluing on the paper towel huh? What is this mushroom anyway? I was so scared last night. The feeling of "will this end" and "how do I back out of this in case it's too scary" occured to me. Do I drink lots of water, lol? I thought the high will last for hours (I read about 6 hours). If the feeling of being scared for 6 hours is the "high", then that sucks. LOL. My high lasted about 1 hour, a mixture of standing around dancing happy for a few seconds to laying down anxious/a little scared off and on. I was listening to Dream Theatre's "Awake" CD, then changed to Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of The Moon". It's my first time on shrooms. I'm expecting colors next time, I didn't see anything this time. Will I have to be in complete darkness or morning time is ok as well?
Quote:
latherdome said:
chewing it and swallowing the juice probably did deliver a small amount. i have read repeatedly that a great deal of absorption can happen in the mouth and throat, not just stomach. as fresh shrooms contain a higher amount of psilocin than dried, maybe this more direct path across the blood-brain barrier resulted in enhanced effects from a small amount.
anxiety is a totally common effect of low doses. it's also an effect of medium and high doses, but as long as you take enough, you will progress through the anxiety to a wonderful place. like being shot into orbit is said to be hair-raising, but once you make orbit it smooths out. with too low a dose you never make orbit, so it's all just pretty rough.
you do know that psilocybin/psilocin and other psychs are generally not recommended for people with a history of psychosis? be safe, huh? hope you have a sitter.
whatever it is, the bluing is strong, looks potent.
Edited by CLIT (01/24/12 09:02 AM)
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 Lord_McLovin
government issue
Registered: 04/09/11
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: CLIT] 1
#15710996 - 01/24/12 09:18 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Honestly, to me it sounds like you shouldn't be messing with psychedelic drugs. You should even be careful with cannabis.
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drr
Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 6,402
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: Lord_McLovin] 3
#15711544 - 01/24/12 11:51 AM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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Half a gram fresh? That is .05 dry. You had an anxiety attack, period. I mean I advocate the low dose experience but there is no way you had that much effect from a half of a fresh gram of cubensis. When they are dried, they loose 90% of their weight in water. A low fresh dose of mushrooms, very low, would be five to ten grams. That would be .5-1 gram dried.
You had a placebo effect / anxiety attack thing. If you actually ate enough of the mushrooms to overcome your anxiety reaction, you would see that they take at least 20-45 minutes to come on and that once they do, you don't feel tense and anxious, you feel calm and serene, at that low a dose anyway. I know from personal experience - I always get anxiety before the fungus kicks in. It feels like it is going to be a nightmare trip but it only lasts for the comeup period - as soon as the drug actually kicks in, it disappears.
That's what I think anyway.
Also it is possible to feel very real physical effects from a placebo, if you're having an anxiety attack, absolutely.
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Aldebaran
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 Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: CLIT] 2
#15712569 - 01/24/12 04:14 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
I have a history of panic attacks, anxiety, OCD, depression, psychotic disorder
I'd be very reluctant to recommend mushrooms to someone with that background, but if you've already made up your mind to experiment, that's your decision. You may find the mushrooms help you to reassess your own issues in a positive way, on the other hand they may create or dredge up negative feelings, memories and mental states that make you feel worse.
The main reason I'm posting is to try and and give some helpful advice about coping with anxiety during a shroom trip:
Firstly, do be prepared for the trip to generate some feelings of anxiety. Depending on the dose, the setting, and the mindset of the user, this can range from very mild mental discomfort to a full-on panic attack.
Quote:
Latherdome wrote: anxiety is a totally common effect of low doses. it's also an effect of medium and high doses, but as long as you take enough, you will progress through the anxiety to a wonderful place.
There's nothing wrong with feeling anxious during a trip, with experience it gets easier to cope with, because you are able to accept that this is just a transitional phase of the trip. A trip can end up being very fun and extremely euphoric, but on the way there it can feel uncomfortable and overwhelming. If you are feeling bad, just recognize it as a temporary mental state, nothing more. Don't blame yourself for feeling any particular way, just wait quietly until you think of something more positive and try to focus on that.
Also, be aware that larger doses of mushrooms will produce mental states that resemble a kind of temporary mania/psychosis - racing thoughts, delusional ideas and so on. This is normal on higher doses of psychedelics, it can be fun, but if your mental state is a bit fragile it might not be a great idea to rocket into that kind of weird headspace. Don't be too surprised if your thought patterns become really strange when you are tripping.
Quote:
It was about 0.5 grams. I did not swallow anything, I spat the mushroom out but looks like its juices that was already in my mouth had an effect on me; body heat, feeling drunk, heart racing, body felt like it was "lifeless" when laying down in bed. It was a scary experience even at such low dose.
Sounds like anxiety effects more than drug effects. Don't underestimate the power of the mind. A trip seems to encompass everything that exists. The entirety of your mental experience - your vision, your bodily sensations, your awareness of the external world - is "all in your head" and can be affected by a psychedelic trip.
Quote:
I was so scared last night. The feeling of "will this end" and "how do I back out of this in case it's too scary" occured to me. Do I drink lots of water, lol? I thought the high will last for hours (I read about 6 hours). If the feeling of being scared for 6 hours is the "high", then that sucks.
Sure, drink some water every now and then to keep you nicely hydrated, but you don't need to drink loads. You can't "back out" of a trip, but it will end, don't worry! Even when a trip feels awful, this feeling often evaporates as you near the peak and the intensity starts to level off instead of getting steadily stronger. A "bad trip" is in reality much more likely to be a brief episode of fear than some kind of 6-hour nightmare.
Although a trip can be a challenge, facing this challenge, and realizing that you are ultimately able to cope with it, can be very liberating. In normal life, you can often back out of, minimize or avoid a situation that is generating anxiety. A strong trip, on the other hand, can force you to face up to and triumph over a mental state that initially seemed impossible to get through.
A difficult trip that eventually becomes highly enjoyable can be a beneficial and life-affirming experience, although it can feel extremely stressful at the time. Make no mistake, experiencing panic and anxiety under the influence of a strong dose of shrooms is not nice. A panic attack by itself can generate alarming physical sensations, and combined with the psychedelics, your thoughts can run out of control to the point where you are convinced that you are dying. (Eventually you begin to realize that fuck all is wrong with you, and you carry on tripping like nothing happened.)
Even a regular shroom trip at moderate doses can generate very weird sensations that can reinforce your own anxieties about the safety and sanity of what you are doing. The beauty of mushrooms, at least for me, is that at some point, however bad the trip feels, I suddenly realize that everything is OK, I can cope, I feel calmer, I start to feel euphoric, I feel stronger for facing my own fears. I begin to really enjoy myself.
Quote:
knowing that I'm ingesting a "toxic" mushroom
They are not toxic, they are psychoactive. If you think in terms of eating a "toxic" mushroom, don't be too surprised if you suddenly start to imagine all kinds of "toxic effects" that feel very real but are just in your head. It's important to be comfortable with what you are taking. If you feel guilty about taking mushrooms, if you are paranoid about your grow, this negative vibe will probably surface in some way during your trip.
I think it's good to think of the trip as something nice that you are doing for yourself. You are taking time out to think, to relax, to experience something potentially wonderful but also dark, mysterious and ineffable. It's a journey - in some places it's hard going, in others it's impossibly beautiful. The combination of a little bit of fear, raw power, beauty and mystery makes the experience very special - if it was all plain sailing it would be less interesting.
If, for whatever reason, you really start to panic when you are tripping, I'd really recommend doing absolutely nothing. Whatever you try to do, in terms of getting help (unless you have a trustworthy and sympathetic friend to calm you down) will probably just make your situation worse. Just ride it out. Whatever horrors you are convinced are happening to you "I'm dying! I'm going insane!" are almost certainly not happening outside of your imagination.
Magic mushrooms are, in terms of physical health, a very safe drug. You might puke or panic but that's about it. When you are trying to assess if everything is OK with your body and your mind, just remember that "I have taken a hallucinogenic drug, I'm hallucinating, this is normal." Whatever fucked-up state of mind you are in, someone else has been there before you and come back OK. It's supposed to be like this. The sooner you adjust to the insanity, the sooner you will start to enjoy yourself.
If you are careful with your doses, and slowly work your way up to a dose that feels satisfying but not too heavy, you'll avoid many of the scenarios I've outlined above. The biggest threat to your health and safety is from the legal status of the mushroom, not from the drug itself. You absolutely want to avoid a situation where you panic, convinced that you need urgent medical attention, and end up being escorted to hospital for no genuine reason, while the police turn over your grow.
Just take your own sweet time to explore the realm of the mushroom, become familiar with the effects, increase your doses very gradually between each trip until you find a nice level, don't trip too often - you should be fine. If you feel that the mushrooms are not helping you, or you don't enjoy them, just stop taking them. 
Quote:
I'm expecting colors next time, I didn't see anything this time. Will I have to be in complete darkness or morning time is ok as well?
If you want to "see colors" on a lowish dose, close your eyes. It doesn't really matter if it's day or night, it's just a different atmosphere.
Reading this back, it looks like I wrote a damn essay. 
I hope I don't sound all "doom and gloom" but if you are tripping with an anxious mindset, you don't want unpleasant surprises, and it can help to think through all the worst-case-scenarios *before* you trip (you will soon realize that, actually, there isn't much to be genuinely worried about). Then, when you are actually tripping, it's easier to brush off your worries and think "fuck it, too late now, I'm going to enjoy myself." If, at some point in the future, you are gripped with "the fear" after taking a bit too much, I hope you recall this advice and think "they told me it would be like this... I feel shit right now but I have a feeling that everything is going to be fine".
--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else
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egodeathflux
Guttersnipe
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: Aldebaran]
#15712654 - 01/24/12 04:36 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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I was gonna say some stuff.. but I think you said it all.
Top notch post Aldebaran.
Only thing I would add is how nice it can be to have some Valium or another benzodiazepine to hand while tripping. They will effectively end a trip or at least bring you down a great deal, chewing them makes them work in 2-3 mins.
I have only resorted to them once, I was in the wrong state of mind for tripping and it had to stop. It's just very reassuring having them with you, knowing you have a vague safety net should make the first few times a little less stressful.
I must say though that when I first read your post I thought that maybe mushrooms aren't the best idea for you.
Only do them when you feel that you've had a great day and have no doubts in your mind. There is no rush to take them.
Lots of good advice round here, keep reading and asking questions, we're mostly happy to help if we can.
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Subconscious
Stranger
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: CLIT]
#15712731 - 01/24/12 04:54 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
CLIT said:
I did this because I have a history of panic attacks, anxiety, OCD, depression, psychotic disorder (my main clinical diagnosis and perhaps all the issues I pre-mentioned is the result from this psychotic disorder).
Psychedelics are relatively safe for people who do not have serious mental health issues. You are not in that category. If you do have a serious psychotic disorder and such a tiny dose caused this extreme of a reaction- that should be a giant red flag to just forget it and never fuck with mushrooms again.
I know that's probably not what you want to hear, but is it really worth potentially screwing your brain chemistry up even worse for the long term? Some people are just not mentally healthy enough to be using powerful, mind altering drugs.
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ifoundwaldo
Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,384
Loc: The County of Oranges
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: Daijo]
#15712844 - 01/24/12 05:13 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
Daijo said:
I know there are actually many different compounds, but my point is that most people ONLY talk about psilocybin.
If there was ONLY ONE thing to talk about it would be psilocin.
A happier chemist
Psiloc(yb)in. That's how I roll.
Sounds like placebo to me.
If you want to do mushrooms, actually eat them, and eat a significant dose (1.5g at the minimum).
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CLIT
Stranger
Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 65
Last seen: 5 days, 14 hours
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: drr]
#15754470 - 02/03/12 12:30 AM (3 months, 24 days ago) |
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Not sure. I know what an anxiety attack is, I had it before. 0.5 gram freshly picked meaning I just cut it from the chamber, washed it, weighed it, then chewed it, spat it cause I got scared but I left the juices in my mouth to see if it will have an effect on me. I think it did. My stomach was empty therefore it could have made it more potent. Does my weight/height have anything to do with this? I'm about 154 pounds, 5'7".
Quote:
drr said:
Half a gram fresh? That is .05 dry. You had an anxiety attack, period. I mean I advocate the low dose experience but there is no way you had that much effect from a half of a fresh gram of cubensis. When they are dried, they loose 90% of their weight in water. A low fresh dose of mushrooms, very low, would be five to ten grams. That would be .5-1 gram dried.
You had a placebo effect / anxiety attack thing. If you actually ate enough of the mushrooms to overcome your anxiety reaction, you would see that they take at least 20-45 minutes to come on and that once they do, you don't feel tense and anxious, you feel calm and serene, at that low a dose anyway. I know from personal experience - I always get anxiety before the fungus kicks in. It feels like it is going to be a nightmare trip but it only lasts for the comeup period - as soon as the drug actually kicks in, it disappears.
That's what I think anyway.
Also it is possible to feel very real physical effects from a placebo, if you're having an anxiety attack, absolutely.
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CLIT
Stranger
Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 65
Last seen: 5 days, 14 hours
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Re: first try of psilocybin, low dose, no hallucinations [Re: ifoundwaldo]
#15754473 - 02/03/12 12:32 AM (3 months, 24 days ago) |
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1.5 grams, fresh? I'll keep that in mind.
Quote:
ifoundwaldo said:
Quote:
Daijo said:
I know there are actually many different compounds, but my point is that most people ONLY talk about psilocybin.
If there was ONLY ONE thing to talk about it would be psilocin.
A happier chemist
Psiloc(yb)in. That's how I roll.
Sounds like placebo to me.
If you want to do mushrooms, actually eat them, and eat a significant dose (1.5g at the minimum).
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